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Ok so I’ve been asked to report back on the one if I visit, however I thought I would report on what I did so far, and since I’m now resting after a long day sight seeing i have some time. This will include tourist activities so I’m sorry if that doesn’t interest you but the reports that included those helped me a lot as well. background on me. I am very late 30’s from North America. I have really only travelled in North America (Canada/USA/Mexico) before with Mexico being one of my favourite destinations (maybe now to be superseded by Thailand ) I arrived last Monday, I got to my hotel, Furama Silom. I choose this hotel based on many, many reviews I have read on this forum. I originally booked a different hotel closer to the bars but I realized it didn’t have a pool so I cancelled and book Directly with Furama for a great deal. So far there has been no issues with bringing back guests. I have the lounge access and I was even able to bring my tour guide to refresh after our tour and get some more information about the city before our time was up. Monday night I decided to go for a walk, I walked by the nine boys massage place and they asked if I wanted massage I said sure, so far this was the best room as it had a bed with a head cradle. I prefer this to just a pillow. The massage was not very good though. After we turned over he asked if I wanted happy for 1000 baht, my first night so I agreed, then he asked another 500 to take his clothes off.. I said sure but nothing happened besides hj. I showered alone at the end.. likely won’t revisit. Tuesday early morning I was browsing Grindr and I chatted with a guy who later told me he was a MB this didn’t bother me, I asked for rates and we agreed to massage+fun. He arrived. I had a decent massage and the fun was great. We had a bit of conversation, showered together then he left. I had a tour booked with Mac from siamroads. There has been some controversy on this forum regarding the owner, however Mac has had rave reviews so I didn’t let that stop me booking him. He was a bit difficult to get a hold of because his phone had broke. However we messaged by email. On the morning it downpoured and Mac got stuck but he messaged me to let me know he was running late, which was fine for me as I was still a bit tired, he arrived and we set out on the tour we planned. He showed me how to use skytrain, the boat transit, we visited the reclining Buddha, he has great knowledge on Thai culture and history and of the Buddhist religion. We visited south Bangkok to tour some local markets. He showed me the flower market. We also went for lunch and I ordered a lot, he felt bad at the cost but I told him not to worry it’s my first time and I want to experience some new things. It seems like he wants to minimize cost for his clients which is great. The food was delicious btw. On return he showed me the area around my hotel, where I could eat, and some things to see, then we chatted about when Bangkok become the capital etc. I felt like I learned a lot and would definitely recommend him to anyone in the future. i was tired this day so I went to bed early. next day I decided I wanted to goto thong plaza, as well as platinum mall and the markets down there. However first I thought I would try one of the massage shops at Saphan Kwai. I decided on 15m I messaged them on line and asked for more information on three guys, I chose one and was on my way, I decided to use taxi as I was still only comfortable going short distances with skytrain. I arrived and the guy I chose was waiting, his picture on line was likely from when he was much younger, I paid the fee he showed me to the massage room. Massage was not that great, not sure if I should expert more, the fun after was not great as well. He had difficulty getting up. Then when he did, it was over just as fast, I definitely did not enjoy this experience and after showing left unhappy, I likely will not return. I did some shopping at the two malls I mentioned, it started to rain so I got myself a manicure to wait it out then I headed back to my hotel. Furama is very close to arena massage now I was a bit nervous going here as I didn’t know what to expect with all the guys lining up looking at you expecting you to choose one leaving everyone else disappointed. However I did pick one. I did get upsold for the vip room, I was worried if this place was so old what would I get with a regular room. I liked that the tip is laid out in advance and it seems like everyone knows what they are there for. VIP room had queen sized mattress, water, private shower stall. I only chose 60 minute massage, I felt like the guy did a great job he hit everywhere I was expecting. Had fun after massage, was not rushed and we showered together. Unfortunately I forgot his name. I returned to my hotel to rest. next day I did safari world, I’ve never did anything like this before and just wanted to experience it. I really enjoyed it. I doubt the shows would be approved by peta but I had fun, I also did some of the extras like feeding tigers, hippos and took some pictures with the animals. I got back late I really didn’t want to leave my hotel room. So I hopped on Grindr and hired a guy off there, massage was more mechanical nothing really to it. However he was an expert at the fun part. After we showered together I went to bed exhausted from a long day. next day I did some more sight seeing. I went to centralworld, I walked around the city a bit to see some of the shops and sights. I took the skytrain back and since it was on the way I stopped at arena massage again. This time I decided to go for longer time, 90 minutes, the boy I was with last time was there again and seemed excited to see me, I felt bad cause I wanted to try something new. This was what I was afraid of with these lineups. I choose a guy but then quickly the papasan said nonono he can’t he has booking. I think he should have had him sit out the lineup at the beginning. So once again I choose. A different guy.this guy was very good massage was excellent, since I did 90 minutes I believe he had more time to spend massaging, he was much better than the first guy, we had a lot of fun, his name was Chai and I would recommend him. We talked a little bit after we showered and he told me I should try four hands next time and gave some explicit gestures on what we could do. The thought crossed my mind but on the advise from here have having first guy you pick find the second guy who they can work with.. what if you don’t like second guy.. then have to turn down. next day I hung around the pool a bit. I took water taxi/shuttle to icon Siam. Was only 10 baht. When I got back I decided I would venture out to the patpong night market area and maybe goto one of the bars, I had an idea on what to expect based on this forum but was still nervous. I decided to walk down as google maps said it was only 15 minutes I walked through the night market then the alley with some of the bars, the promoters are trying to get you inside. I did not find them to be aggressive or overbearing a simple no thanks, and they where onto the next guy, I walked the entire alley discovering this alley contained both gay and straight bars, I walked back down not sure where to go however fresh boys show was going to start in 15 minutes at 10:30 so I decided on that, this was Saturday night. They tried to seat me front row in the middle. I asked to sit in the back which wasn’t a problem. I arrived 10;15 pm there was about 7-8 other guys when I got there, however before the show started the room started to fill up. Mostly Chinese, Indian tourists. Only one other white guy besides myself, 2-3 more joins later in the evening, on stage was 15-20 guys wearing no shirts and white fresh boys shorts. When the light hits right you can see their white briefs underneath, they stood on stage changing position every few seconds. They were mostly younger with a couple older guys. When the show started most of the boys left to go outside, some went to the back to get ready to perform, while some sat down on the couch by the stage busy on their cellphones. The show wasn’t bad, they had a couple drag queens perform. One drag queen performed oral on two of the guys. They had a shower show where they soaped up each other and simulated penetration with actual oral. Then they had the cock show where the guys came out and banged their cocks against a pole after this they came into the audience, the mamasan told everyone “you can touch, you can suck” the guy who I was eying came over with his cock out, I played with it a little and tipped him 100 baht, once the guys saw I tipped they all started to come to me. Then I had ended tipping four of them. After the show the guys got back on stage. i asked the mamasan if the guy I was interested spoke any English. She said his English was very bad, so I asked if I could buy him a drink. She called out his number and he came out, had had been smiling at me all night, when he sat down he asked me the basic questions mentioned on this forum, where are you from? How long you visit? Etc. I cuddled with him a bit and asked him some questions like his position, has it been busy. Etc his English was more than adequate translator app not needed, I asked him his rate he told him 2500 I probably could have haggled. However i didn’t want to bother. I agreed. I asked him if he had to wait until after last show, cause he was part of the cock show, he said yes, however he misunderstood me cause a minute later he asked if I wanted to go now and I said yes. He called mamasan over to collect fees, while he went to get changed, he was from Cambodia. I said I wanted to take taxi as I didn’t feel like walking back. We got back to my hotel room, not an eye batted that I was brining someone back, he took a shower. We had some fun, a lot of fun. He was well equipped and was actually engaged and seemed to be enjoying himself as well, which is a big turn on for me, after we took a shower together, this is when I asked him if he had any friends in the club that he did threesomes with. He said he did. I told him if I was at the bar tomorrow maybe I would be interested, I laid the fee, with a little extra, then he left for the night. the next day, Sunday I was very tired from the night before as I woke up very early, I did some more sight seeing, I got back to my hotel room around 5 pm and was tired I ended up napping until 8. When I woke up I was deciding whether or not I wanted to goto the bars, I decided I should. I had a shower then headed out. This time I walked the alley again, then back out, to another small dead end alley with banana room. I didn’t go in looked interesting. I walked bit further around the block and I found moonlight and then I noticed the other bars under fresh boys. Goodboys. The promoters of these bars seemed less interested in calling you in. When I was in the alley with moonlight no one called over to me, I was wearing black shorts and a black tshirt maybe I wasn’t dressed well enough? Same for dream boys not a single promoter asked me to come inside, I was getting warm and decided to go into a bar to cooldown from the heat. I thought I saw a bar where the show started at 9:45 but I couldn’t find that board tonight, maybe only Saturday? So I ended up going to hot male. This place felt smaller than fresh boys. Again there was mostly only Asian tourists and a few Indian tourists as well, the boys where all on stage however this time they just stood there, no movement to change position. They smiled at you, grabbed their crotches, they were wearing white tank tops with red long pants, some shirtless. A couple guys interested me,but they didn’t seem interested in me, so why bother? Another white guy came in. He bought a couple bottles they seemed to know him there. 5-8 of the guys went to join him and enjoy drinks. I felt like the room was too brightly lit. I preferred the dark seats of fresh boys. the show started, it consisted of some strip dancing, cock shows, then big cock show, one guy had a very large cock and he stayed hard without using their makeshift cock rings, they did come out with weird costumes for this, I wasn’t interested in anyone so when they came around for tips I just said no thanks, the show ended I paid my tab and left, then I decided to head over to fresh boys. at fresh boys they where just finishing the show with the cock parade where they use their cocks to hit the pole. I sat down. After the guy from the night before saw me he waved to me and smiled, then after he out his shirts back on for the lineup he came over to me to say hi, I tipped him 100 and he rejoined the lineup. His buddy was standing next to him in the lineup and pointing to the both of them trying to get me to pick both, I was unsure, his buddy was trying very hard, even playing with the guys cock through his shorts on stage. It was getting late and I didn’t really want to make the guy I was interested wait longer so I asked one of the waiters to have him come sit with me and I will buy drink, I asked is he your friend who does threesome he said yes but he told me another number who fucks better. I said ok let’s see. The other one came around on stage however I wasn’t interested in him even tho he definitely was trying to attract my attention, I told my guy I’m not really interested. He asked who I liked, I told him I liked him the best, he was happy and asked if I was gonna take him tonight, I said yes. I didn’t want to put the guys on stage through anymore torture so I asked to pay bill while he changed. we took Tuktuk back to hotel, I had great time he was even better second time, usually I find that’s not the case, he really worked hard to ensure I was satisfied. We later in bed after finishing and talked a bit, I asked him maybe you have verse guy I can watch first then we can all play. He said he did have friend even better he thinks I will like. I said maybe next time I go I can see. He told me about some sights I should visit. I know this is transactional but I felt like he actually was happy to be with me and this matters the most to me. i will definitely off him again.. maybe with a friend… who knows. Tonight I will try to find the one bar and see how that is. I may end up going to good boys tonight as well. Depending oh one thing I should mention at fresh boys and hotmale both give you back 50 baht in your change as coins, likely so you will leave that as a tip, which they got me and I did. I will add to this post tomorrow.

I typed this out and accidentally clicked the back button losing it all, then I typed this out in notepad to paste here. When I came back it said “previous comment restored” it was all back! Great feature. But I had already restored the below Monday I woke up bit later which was nice, I was on Grindr and talked to another tourist who was staying in my hotel, we hooked up for a quick session. After I took some of my shirts to get laundered. I did not bring enough shirts. It is very hot so I end up sweating and changing a couple times per day. So I recommend bring extra! I then decided to do the Hop on and off tourist boat, it was only 150 baht, Mac did show me how to use the regular boats but I liked the convenience of this predetermined route, I visited icon Siam again, where I went to the atm at a bank on the five floor to get some more cash. I then took the cash inside to have the 1000 baht notes broken down into smaller bills, I did this before and is much easier than breaking these large bills at places like 7-11. I visited wang lang market which I thought was a great inexpensive market. I bought a few clothing items. They also have second hand items if someone is truly looking for a bargain. I visited Chinatown, the amount of shops can be overwhelming but it was a fun walk. I also visited khaoson road, the amount of tailors approaching you for custom suites, shirts is astounding. I was asked more for a suit than a massage :p. I returned to my hotel around 6:30, tourist from Grindr messaged me asking if I wanted another quick session, I said sure and had some quick fun. I showered and relaxed in my room, it started to rain and I was debating wether or not I wanted to even go out in this, around 9:30 the rain died down to a drizzle and I decided I would venture out. I did not want to walk in this rain so I decided to get a grab car. While riding I was thinking about buying umbrella, I thought during the rainy season it might be wise for the drivers to carry some to sell to tourists they could make some extra money as I’m sure we would pay a premium. I walked through patpong market looking to see if anyone selling umbrella but wasn’t bothered if they didn’t. I made my way to the one bar, with the help from my previous post. I arrived just before 10. The promoter asked me to come in I said sure. It was a very small bar. They sat me in the middle directly in front of the stage. If I reached out with my arm I could touch the guys on stage. That’s how close it is. I thought there was 10-12 customers when I entered with two guys posing on stage. I realized after short time there was actually only 5 of us customers the rest were bar boys. The guys asked next to me, who worked there, was very pushy. Kept asking who I liked, this one younger, you like him, I kept stating I’m just looking for now, two different guys now went on stage and posed, they did not seem interested. This place was brightly lit, very small. I was not comfortable so I decided to leave around 10:15. The guys are more muscular and a bit older than the other bars I’ve attended. There was definitely a couple guys I was attracted to, but as I said the atmosphere ruined it for me. The entry fee was 500 baht, which you pay before entering, and includes one drink. Next I thought about going back to fresh boys but I wanted to try something new, so I went downstairs to good boys. This time the promoter outside asked me if I wanted to come inside, show is on. I said sure. He opened door and mamasan greeted me and took me to a table one row from the back. This place is bigger. Not as brightly lit and was packed with customers when I got there, two tables even had guys with bottles and multiple bar boys. The show was you going on and there was a drag performance. After a couple of the boys did a strip tease, followed by a light bdsm performance where two boys danced in their underwear with their hard cocks showing, after which they removed. One boy was hitting the other with a pool noodle. Another drag queen performance. I myself enjoy drag performances and these ladies definitely lip synced well. One of the mamasans came around to me, there was three of them, she asked if I liked anybody I said I am still looking she said okay let me know if you like anybody, after show they will be on stage and you can see, she told me they had boys from multiple countries not just Thai. I felt like she wanted me to:have good time and wasn’t just pressuring me to off one. Next up was big cock show, they showed off on stage then after came into audience to show off their goods. One cute boy approached me and I tipped 100 then another, and another, I wasn’t really interested in any others I saw one of the mamasans saw me tipping and told a couple of the other boys to come see me, I tipped one more then I politely said no thanks when others came to me. They didn’t seem offended and simply moved onto other customers. A simple no thanks has worked at all the bars I’ve attended so far. After the boys went on stage. They all are wearing tight white briefs. I liked a few, the boys here feel a bit more slender and slot appear to be more feminine in their mannerisms. I was looking for a top and was a bit worried. Mamasan came around again and said which boy you like, I asked her for some info on number 16. She told me he do everything, top, bottom, you will like. I wasn’t confident in her answers and said thank you and decided to watch some more. Here it felt like the boys were not interested in me, only one or two guys looked back at me and smiled. The rest seemed disinterested overall. This is a turn off for me. If they are not interested in stage when trying to present themselves, how will they react back in my hotel room? I decided to leave for the night, I called mamasan over asked for bill. She said oh no you don’t like anyone, I explained there was one boy I liked but he was busy with another customer who bought a bottle. She said oh you show me. I showed her she said oh yea. She said I see what you like. I told her I might come back tomorrow, she asked me to stay for the next show but I declined, she told me to come and see her again tomorrow, I paid, tipped her and left. I liked good boys. Staff was friendly, atmosphere was nice, seats are dimly lit. Just wish the boys seemed a bit more interested, I will definitely return, maybe the boy I like will be available next time. I was thinking on heading back to my hotel as it was just about midnight. I walked a little further and fresh boys promoter saw me and said come inside show is on, o thought for a second but said sure. I went inside and it was about 3/4 full of people. Drink is 400. The boy I had offed previously was on stage in the show and he greeted me. I sat down and ordered drink and watched the end of the show. After the show he came over and greeted me. I tipped him 100 we chatted for moment, I asked him if anyone new was here who was verse that he could work with. He gave me two numbers. Then the papasan told him to rejoin a couple male/female who I guess bought him a drink before the show. So he left to join them. I was disappointed maybe they were gonna take him tonight. I looked on stage and a few of the guys where thrusting their hips at me, I guess he told some of these guys what I like, they didn’t really interest me. One guy was older and he kept trying to get me to buy him drink,I’m just was not interested. The couple who had my guy was paying their bill. I did not see him get dressed so after they left he came back to rejoin me. Papasan asked if I wanted to buy him drink, I said sure. So I talked to him about the guy he mentioned. We watched for him to come to the side of our stage. He was a little Twinkier than I like but I asked papasan for him to buy drink so we could talk. I picked him between the two numbers my guy gave because my guy told me his English was better. He joined me and asked me usually questions “where you from” “ how long you here” My guy said he was in next show he had to get ready I said sure, I talked to the new guy, I asked him position he said everything, he seemed nervous, he wasn’t here the night before. I told him I wanted to see my guy fuck him, then him do me, he said he was fine with that, I asked rate. He asked me how much I paid my guy I told him as I was fine with it and he said ok. So I decided to off them both. He went to go get changed I paid the bill. Then when he came back we cuddled while we watched the show, my guy was in show with the drag queen with simulated sex acts, I haven’t seen this before since both nights previously I left the bar with him before he performed this act. We got back to my hotel room, all showered. Nice thing about this room is the shower is big enough for all of us with a rainfall shower head, new guy was finishing up in shower while my guy and I discussed my days activities where I went. We had slot of fun with the three of us. Unfortunately my guy was too big for the new guy to take, he tried but I didn’t want to ruin the mood by having him continue, I was a bit disappointed but we all still had fun. In the future Im not sure how I would overcome this to ensure new guy would be able to fully perform. We all showered again I tipped them both and thanked them. Ordered some food and off to bed I went. At fresh boys after I picked two other guys trying to get us to do three, even one of the waiters showed me his number. I definitely could not do three haha. Are the waiters off able? I thought they just wore numbers to make it easier to know who helped you. Fresh boys definitely has some cute waiters. Should I try any other bars tonight? I’m thinking of heading to skywalk this afternoon then maybe to arena after.

Unfortunately on Thursday night I wasn’t feeling well so I stayed in bed all night which continued onto all of Friday. It was mostly my allergies and unfortunately i didn’t bring any allergy meds, first gen antihistamines make me drowsy but rarely work so I tried some tiffy which made me sleep. I looked up online if they had mine prescription antihistamine and they did under a different name so on Saturday morning I went off to retrieve which has helped me recover. on Saturday I went down to the bars again, I was early so I walked around a bit. I remembered banana room started their show early so I headed over, when I entered it was packed, nearly every seat filled, I sat in the back last row to the left of the stage, I watched the show a few of the drag queens did quite well and I tipped, some of them tried to lip sync to English songs but it was obvious they didn’t know the words and only trying to voice the syllables, I think it would look more impressive if they lip synced to a thai song as some of the other performers did. Once again we had the nude shower show and the cock parade. I like this bar as overall seems to be less pressure, you are allowed to take a look in first to decide if you want to go in, mamasan comes around and asked if anyone you like but if you simply say “I’m still looking” they don’t push further. The show was over and unfortunately the boy I had my eye on went to join someone who had bought a bottle, another boy I had my eye on joined a couple who was preparing to off two boys, what a fun night for them, on stage only 8 boys remained, compared to other clubs it seems like banana room has the least guys on stage. Now I didn’t want to pick someone who wasn’t interested in me, atleast faking interest. On stage only one boy waved at me and showed interest, the papasan came around and I asked to buy this boy a drink, he called him down and he joined me, where he cuddled up with me very fast, he asked me all the standard questions and then I asked his position and he said “anything you like” however for me I want someone who can preform so I asked what you like more, and he told me, his English wasn’t the greatest so I asked where he was from to ensure I was translating to the correct language and we discussed fees. I agreed and since the show was over asked if he wanted to go now or stay and watch next show, he said he would get dressed, I called papasan over to pay fees. I discussed with papasan, papasan who is very friendly, why I choose boy, I told him he smiled at me and waved. I told him I look got a boy who shows interest if I take back I don’t want a dead fish. He understood and hopefully he can give some advice to the other boys. boy was dress and off we went, everything went well, he really did do “anything you like” I was tired from the previous two days and didn’t want to complete however he said Noo, I’m happy if you finish too. Which was nice made everything seem less transactional. We showered discussed bangkok a little bit and off he went. on Sunday I wanted to visit the chatuchak market, this is a huge market. I specifically went to buy some souvenirs and take in the experience, I was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of the prices cheaper than malls such as platinum. I took the mrt back through to lumphini park and walked through as this was something I had not done yet. After I took a grab back to my hotel. I relaxed for a bit and then decided I was just gonna pack tonight and stay in and relax. Even tho it’s my last night in bangkok I did need a rest I had a great time and I will definitely be back, likely the same time as this year. Most thunderstorms were overnight with only a couple in the venting early morning, it did not last long. I will likely visit some other areas such as pattaya next time. Hiring Mac at the beginning of the trip was great as he showed me how transit works, showed me the area around my hotel to eat, get laundry done, and explained things to look out for. I would definitely recommend hiring guide for first timers to learn the ins and outs, if not atleast learn how to use transit. Bangkok traffic is no joke, 3km turns into an hour long trek and the skytrain can save you so much time. my hotel furama was great. I stayed in an executive suite so I cannot speak to the other floors. I only ate breakfast once but it had everything you can expect from a western breakfast plus other cultures as well. The executive club is nice to unwind and have a drink. They provide snacks all day and some lights meals in the evening, the pool area has fake grass around the area now, pool water appeared to be tested everyday and was comfortable temperature, the city looks great at night from the rooftop pool area. maid service was amazing. She did not speak English but she didn’t get bothered when I fumbled a bit with google translate to request extra towels. She always ensured I had plenty of bottled water (sometimes I had 4 in the fridge and 6 on the counter) even when I got up late or left and came back she still did the room as late as 5 pm! Amazing service, I’m sure it helped I tipped everyday but it’s not much by western standards and the service she provided made my experience a lot more comfortable, the front desk staff and door men were friendly, never judging when bringing people back, even when I brought two. the only downside is the keys, they reuse hotel key cards so over time they wear out, so simply placing them in contact with your cellphone can erase the data causing the key not to work in the door, they did give me three keys, one for the electricity. And two for me. So I kept extra key in my wallet just in case. tomorrow I leave in the afternoon, it was suggested I simply use grab. So hopefully they won’t be mad that I have 1 large suitcase 1 carryon and my backpack. special thanks to everyone on this forum who posted. I read a lot over the few months before my trip to prepare myself and I feel like without these tips I would not have ventured out to the bars or even gotten as far as I did, so a big thank you! 🙏

I discovered this forum when Tawan Bar closed and I was looking for info. I have since been lurking, but having just returned from my latest BKK stay felt I should report for those with any concerns about our beloved bar. Firstly I have visited BKK twice a year, every year since 2013. I stay for 1 week and spend most nights in Tawan (as it will always be known to me) I don’t bother with any other bar as I am into big muscle only! On my first visits to Tawan 11 years ago, in the original venue across the road, there was a DJ who provided cheeky sound effects to what the guys were doing on the stage, along with quips and comment throughout the show. This made it all so much more lively and fun than what it has become. The shows themselves were far more hardcore and sexual. They could certainly revive some of these features today. Fast forward to my visit last week, 3 nights in the bar. I am happy to report it is the same beast that she has been of recent years. if not of it's former glory. On night one the boys were few and not the greatest quality, but there were 2 I would consider my type. The crowd was very small, I did have concerns for its future. The 2nd and 3rd nights the place was packed with boys, there were 3-4 that would work for me, and it was a full crowd. A much brighter picture all round! There were enough different body types to appeal to all tastes, several off season bodybuilder types for me to choose from Thankfully the guys are still as friendly and welcoming as ever, it does help that I have a muscled build (yes that is me in my avatar) and they never fail to swarm around me and give me extra attention! As much as I love the place it does have many faults, all easily fixed, and would make it a far better experience: - The new manager is too pushy, trying to get you to drink more, and insisting ion a 150B tip each round just for bringing them.Also demanding tips during parts of the show quite forcefully. On one night I watched uncomfortably as he plied a young obviously drunk customer with more drinks, trying over and over to force boys onto the customer, as well as himself. This guy needed to be sent home and instead he was getting his wallet siphoned. - The boys looking bored on stage, faces stuck in phones pre and after show, this does nothing to generate interest or enthusiasm. Phones should be banned on stage! Give the boys something to do, if they have a skill or hobby it would be great seeing them doing it on stage. Solving a Rubik’s Cube, jumping rope, dribbling a ball, doing a few dumbbell curls…. anything but standing there bored! (the guy next to me asked if this was the show when they were up there with faces in phones!) - Get rid of the drag from the show… this is not the right venue or audience for drag, we are there to see MEN! - The shows need to be more hardcore (if allowed) Although I did have a laugh during the “BDSM” show when one was whipping the other with a thick foam tube, it made a hell of a noise, but certainly delivers no pain…yet 2 separate guys left covering their eyes in horror, bless em And bring back the cheeky DJ with the fun commentary through the show. - Advertising… ZERO! This is crazy, particularly after the reopening! If anyone knows the management and can speak fluently PLEASE get them off their ass and do some publicity! Twitter, Insta, Facebook, Tic Tok, ad noisome are all free. Tawan Bar has a page on each, all have been neglected for years, They need to get a few posts up a few times a month. They have been open 20+ years and no one I talk to in Australia knows they exist! On top of that every local I spoke to while there thought it was still closed and were shocked led when I said Id been going every night! This bar has the potential to be so much more successful with just a few tweaks… It remains my favourite bar and I hope to see it thrive into the future!

On Tuesday I just did some more tourist activities and went to arena Massage and had another great massage with the guy from before. His massage is almost trained. He is more focused on the clinical and less on the erotic aspect until you flip over. I don’t mind this as I get a good massage, but would be nice if he blends Wednesday I slept in finally, I couldn’t decide what I wanted to do today. I was thinking of going to Jodds fair later in the afternoon, I decided to head out for some shopping. After shopping I returned to my hotel around 4-5 I saw that traffic was brutal so the 20 minute journey to jodds was gonna take over an hour so I decided against. I ended up on Grindr and talked to a guy we Decided to meet up in the hotel sauna where we fooled around for a bit. I showered then headed up to the pool. Furama has some nice views of the city at night. I was gonna stay in again but decided to venture out to the bars. this time I walked past dreamboys the promoters outside did ask me to come in, it was early so I said I would come back. I walked up the alley to the next one and past by banana room the promoters called out to Me. I said too early for show I will come back. However he told me show already started it was just last 9:30 when first show starts. He asked me if I wanted to just take a look, something the other bars didn’t, I peaked then decided why not. Drinks here are only 360 baht. Later I also enquired about boy drinks they are 300. So much cheaper than the other bars. When I entered there was only about 8 other guys watching the show, mostly all Asian tourists I sat in the back right by the door. The show consisted mainly of drag queens/lady boys? They lip synced and danced, there was 7 different ones in total. They had a shower show with two guys and then a cock parade show with 5 guys. While I do like drag shows there was not enough performances featuring the boys. The show ended around 10:40 which was quite long. During the show lots of people peaked inside but didn’t stay. By the end of the show there was around 12-13 customers, The boys went into stage. Only around 8 boys in total. They are mostly shirtless wearing black pants. The boys here are less twinky than the other bars I attended. They are attractive. However only one guy caught my attention but he seemed uninterested in being on stage, no one wants a dead fish. The atmosphere is good here. You are far enough away from the stage to observe but not feel like you are on top of the guys. The stage is well lit but the customer seating area is not bright. I decided to pay my fee. I tipped the lady boy who answered my questions and thanked her for her time and left. i decided to head back to dreamboys and check it out. Outside the promoters called out to me. I said what time is next show and they told me now, now. I went inside and was led to a seat on the front but asked to change to the upper seat on the side. Dreamboys was packed with customers I say a good 20-25 90% Asian tourists and 10% Caucasian. The show was some erotic dancing with the boys. A drag queen came on next. After there was a cock show, some sucking and simulated sex. A lot more variety than banana room. I didn’t check price but I believe drink here was 500 baht, boy drink was 400. After the show boys went on stage, they had a lot. Over 20. They are dressed in skimpy white shirts some wearing white tank tops but most shirtless. One guy number 77 had huge bulge in his shorts. The papasan came over to me to ask which I liked. I told them I still deciding and I felt no pressure just assistance. I saw another guy looking at me and he was cute. next show started and I forgot the numbes of the boys I was interested in. I watched show which was a bit different, however when the boys are “backup dancing” they all do this slow motion running in place move which looks a bit awkward . When the show was over boys went back on stage I narrowed down the numbers to two. I asked one of the papasans if he between the two numbers he knew which one spoke better English, he told me so I picked that boy to buy drink, he came over asked me the same questions “where you from” “how long you here” I asked him his position. He told me “I gay, I do everything” it’s funny here gay means top and bottom or just bottom. Straight is just top. We discussed his off fee he told me rate for short time and long time. I was thinking because he was a little more expensive than boys I brought back from fresh boys however I gave them extra which equaled this amount, while I was thinking he asked me “I go get dressed?” I said sure, we took taxi back to hotel, which he said he has been to many times. Back in the room he showered while I got the room ready. Then I showered. We had fun. He was just as engaged as I was and wanted to ensure I was having good time as well. after we showered together and sat on couch to talk a bit which was nice, he told me he has been working at Dreamboys since Covid restrictions ended, I saw a lot of people asking if Dreamboys where Thai only so I asked him, he told me mostly Thai but now they are hiring more from different countries and have a few already. He traded his WhatsApp asked me if I wanted to do anything in afternoon before clubs open to message him. He showed me some pictures of other boys in the club who he likes to work with, was a fun experience, it was raining so I tipped him some extra so he could take taxi. He left. Later I ordered some food and went downstairs to get it where I saw him still sitting in lobby. I asked him if everything is alright he told me he is waiting for rain to stop because he has motorbike. I asked if he wanted to come upstairs and wait and share some food but he said he is fine and wants to wait. I wished him goodnight. dreamboys was one of the bigger clubs I’ve been to. They have two entrances and a huge stage. I would definitely return. not sure if I will visit moonlight, I don’t know if I like the idea of the higher off fees. I may visit banana room again on the weekend hopefully there will be more guys on stage.

It's true that I off someone from a bar only about once in 4 or 5 bar visits. Even when I do, I often won't write about it. Firstly, there is not a lot I want to say about sex in the room. Secondly, it's not what my blog is intended for. You may have noticed that even when sex follows a massage, the massage visit report doesn't include any description of the gymnastics (outside editorial policy,😉). Thirdly, the majority of my visits to Bangkok are work-related, which means that I don't stay in the Silom area and I have to get up at "normal" hours in the morning. Taking a bar boy at 11pm would be impractical compared to booking a 6pm or 7pm massage. Fourthly, it is 50 - 100% costlier to get a bar boy than a massage, for no assurance of better performance. Even if I am not on a work trip and therefore have the luxury of time, the years have had an impact. Whereas I could happily do a massage-plus in the day followed by off'd-boy in the night, I don't have the energy or interest to keep up with such a pace anymore. Once a day is now enough. Moreover, over the years I have acquired a short list of bar boys and massage boys whom I contact directly to come to my room. If it's a bar boy and during evening hours, I'd still have to pay the off fee, but I wouldn't have taken him from a bar (at least, not directly), which means I don't have to pay 500 baht for drinks and be pestered by mamasans. I do not write about such come-to-my-hotel appointments. Because they are "regulars" - even if not that frequent - the sessions I have with them are generally more satisfying. In this respect, I actually have 2 Tawan guys on that shortlist, compared to just one from Fresh Boy (and last I heard, he's not even working there anymore), plus a growing number from other bars and massage places. There have been trips to Bangkok where I don't visit the bars at all; between massage visits and shortlisted boys coming to my hotel, I am busy enough. All these factors considered, offing a boy from a bar is indeed becoming a rarity. Nowadays, the main value I get from visitng a bar is to find fresh new faces once in a while, and if they perform well, they get added to the shortlist.

Highlights, Lowlights, Rants, Raves and Reflections ✓Tawan – Still Finding Its Footing As much as it pains me, Tawan was a lowlight this time around. There are glimmers of the old charm I loved, but they seem to be struggling post-closure. Fingers crossed this is just a transitional phase! ✓Prince & SSENSE Reliable as ever. No complaints here—just solid, dependable fun. ✓Arena I’ve rekindled my love for Arena and found myself visiting more frequently than usual. Maybe it’s to compensate for the Tawan disappointment? Either way, it’s a win. ✓Good Boys Good Boys is becoming a personal favorite. If the rumors are true and they’re moving to Sol bar’s old space, that’s exciting! Their current roster deserves more room to shine. ✓Banana Banana is stepping up in showmanship, but they need more variety in their boy lineup. And please, can we have more frequent visibility? Performances can drag on while the boys disappear into the ether. ✓Jupiter – Surprise of the Trip Jupiter was a pleasant surprise! Maybe it’s a fluke or the low-season magic, but it really stood out this time. ✓Moonlight – Still zero offs from me Still haven’t offed anyone from Moonlight. Can’t put my finger on it, but the vibe just isn’t doing it for me. Maybe a dash of sleaze would help? Lol. ✓Hotmale – Entertaining Yet Predictable Hotmale is fun, but the lineup hasn’t changed much. It’s starting to feel a little too predictable. Still worth a visit. ✓Saphan Kwai Shops These shops are starting to claim a larger share of my trip funds—and I’m not mad about it. ✓Dreamboys My last two visits unfortunately was a lackluster experience . I’m hoping they can reignite the magic soon. The stage feels empty and performance is meh at best. Are they still imposing the "Thai only" policy? ✓Repeat Offs Lately, I’ve been gravitating toward reliability and consistency over variety. It’s a shift from my usual cravings for novelty. ✓Routine Setting In? This is my third trip report, and I’m noticing a lot of my experiences while personally satisfying, are becoming routinary. In some of my visits at Arena, SSENSE, Dreamboys—there’s nothing particularly new to report, so I’ve omitted some details. I’m considering switching up my reporting style next time—shorter, plus snappier. Don't want to bore you guys with my extended waffling about some random stuff. Lol. Let me know if this new approach will work! Till next time! 😃

Great report. You doing very well for a newbie. Glad to hear Arena did not disappoint you, they rarely do, if at all. Satisfaction guaranteed there if you ask me. Sorry to hear about Tawan guys chasing you out by being pushy. Sadly , it looks it's how they chose to operate under new management and you not only one being chased away by their antics. It used to be friendliest bar by far. You mentioned you think barkers (promoters) at Moonlight overlooked you because way you were dressed . Highly unlikely though, nothing wrong with black t-shirt and shorts. Give a chance to Banana Club in soi 4 as well as Jupiter deeper in in the same soi. Don't forget about Dreamboys on the 2nd floor opposite of HotMale and Moonlight which is favorite bar of undersigned, he, he. Mahanakhon skywalk is the must, mornings are usually less crowded. While there make sure to check toilet on the same floor elevators down are - quite possible best toilet view in the entire world ! As per losing what you typed, those accidents happen. Try to write report somewhere and only then copy and paste there. You may wish to make more posts but shorter ( say one or two days goings per post ). Make sure you have fun day and night, there's no trip to Thailand like first one

I'm so happy to be able to complete this trip report (albeit the delay) as promised! ------------------- Come evening, I decided to try my luck with a two-hour session at Prime Massage. Fortunately, I only had to wait about 10 minutes. They directed me to their other location, just a few steps away. This time, I was greeted by a particularly cute masseur. To avoid any unnecessary trouble, I took a cold shower beforehand—I had every intention of not getting myself banned from such a good massage spot. Lol. Dinner followed at Foodland, and that’s when I realized I haven’t visited Jupiter yet. Now, it’s not that I’m a fan of their boys sporting their 'constipated model' looks, but I always make it a point to spread the love by visiting each bar at least once during my trips. After dinner and some people-watching at my usual Starbucks (Montien), I made my way toward Jupiter, reminding myself that I have to choose between and invite either 7 or Nine afterwards. When I arrived, the show was just starting, and the models were parading around. To my utter surprise, I counted four or five of them actually making eye contact and giving me proper, engaging smiles. While some stuck to the 'constipated model' brief, these five melted my heart. I almost orgasmed on the spot! Lucky for me, three out of the five were "offable" by my standards. The show kicked off with an adorable guy singing Ed Sheeran and some R&B covers. I found him utterly charming, though not in a sexual, offable way. I called over a waiter and asked him to deliver my tip. Cutie singer smiled and waved, and I waved back. After his set, as he was leaving, he passed by, shook my hand, and flashed that cute smile again. I absentmindedly watched the rest of the show. By now, the place was packed, and the mamasans weren't pushing too hard to sell time with the boys—there wasn't even space to sit! Once the show ended and the crowd thinned out, the boys returned with their numbers pinned on, working the stage. I spotted two of my earlier smiling guys, still available, so I wasted no time summoning the first one to make eye contact again. His name is Sun. As his drink arrived, we started chatting, covering the usual questions. A mamasan tried to be "helpful" but with my experience at Screwboys, I politely smiled and said, “Thanks, but I’ve got it. Not my first time.” He promptly vanished and moved on to another table. With the vibe check going well, and all details sorted (time commitment, expectations, and finances), Sun and I left the club, grabbed some snacks from 7-11, and headed back to my hotel. The night—and the following morning—were great. We had a good laugh when he climaxed, unloading buckets. He shyly explained he hadn't been offed in a week, so it had been building up. As we lay cuddled together, I couldn't help but reflect on the unexpected turn of events. Here I was, cuddling with a Jupiter boy! Quite the change from my original plan. And a first since ages ago! The last time I offed someone from Jupiter was when they were at their old location. Maybe the universe had a different plan for me for my last nit. Perhaps I need to open my mind a bit more about Jupiter on my next trip!

This was my second time with Nine on this trip, and my fourth overall. The experience was just as enjoyable as ever, though some of his stories and banter were starting to get a bit repetitive—like how he used to work in construction in Bangkok before switching to being a bar boy because it’s more fun and pays better. It can get a little monotonous, but the image of him as a construction worker always gives me a little thrill. Such a fantasy! When we arrived at the hotel, everything fell into place like clockwork. Nine put our 7-11 haul in the fridge while I started microwaving the snacks we bought. He even washed the cups and cutlery I’d been too lazy to clean before I left, which left me feeling a bit embarrassed but also giggling inside at how domesticated we seemed—like a couple. We had a lively conversation over drinks and snacks. When we eventually ran out of topics, Nine suggested we head to the shower, which I definitely didn’t decline. I took my time, savoring the moment and appreciating the fine-looking gentleman with me. It’s a shame the room didn’t have a bathtub! We continued our session on the bed, and afterward, we spent the rest of the night and early morning with him watching random stuff on his phone while I cuddled up next to him. Normally, I get annoyed when guys are glued to their phones during downtime, but this time it didn’t bother me at all. I enjoyed relaxing while he had his space, taking thoughtful breaks every now and then to smile and give me a quick kiss. I couldn’t complain. Nine left after breakfast, marking the start of my last full day before heading home. I’m playing it cool today, feeling quite satisfied with the “boy buffet” Bangkok has offered me this time around. I made a mental note to skip the bars and just choose between 7 or Nine for my final hurrah. With most of my stuff already packed and my shopping list completed (a rare feat!), I had a full afternoon and evening to enjoy. For my last boy massage of the trip, I headed to Prince Spa around 4 p.m. It wasn’t busy—there was a reasonable number of boys available, and the Papasan said more were on the way. I wasn’t complaining, though, because the current roster was already making it hard to choose. That’s when I spotted Boat, the guy I’d chosen last time and had a great time with. I wasn’t in the mood for risks, so I made the safe choice. “Nice to see you again,” Boat said as he led me to the room. One thing to note: the massage area is so dark, with only LED candles lighting the way. I’m always a little panicked, thinking I’ll bump into a wall while navigating the place. As expected, Boat didn’t disappoint. The intensity and passion he brought to the session surprised me, and I found myself reciprocating more than usual. Being at the end of my trip, my energy level was low, but his enthusiasm was contagious, and I felt my energy rise. I left feeling satisfied and made sure my tip reflected that. As I walked back to the hotel, I felt like I was floating from the amazing session. Last part to be continued.....

I recently went out of Thailand and went through immigration. I met no one. It was 100% electronic. I put my passport up there, it scanned my passport to check and then opened the gates to the next point. It then took my photo and processed, and then I exited. There was zero lines at immigration and no wait time at all. VERY easy process.

Excellent post, I am now into my 70s and this mirrors my own experience back in the UK. Pattaya was my liberation, with the slow release of the closet door as my confidence grew. Even so the gay side to my nature is still only known to a few back in the UK. But back to the topic, I split my time in Pattaya between 'straight' boys and gays, and usually its a top v bottom distinction as well. Some of the tops arrive at my room already, as they strip off, visibly 'ready, willing and able' to perform the task in hand. Many are happy to kiss, suck, and, in rare instances, bottom as well. Some need to watch (or pretend to need to watch) hetro porn on their phone as they fuck you, some do not. Some perform with obvious enthusiasm and seem to be enjoying what they do. Some straight guys will be grabbing a towel and heading off to the shower seconds after they have cum and disengaged, while others will linger, cuddle, and try and get you off if you haven't done already. There are so many different scenarios depending on the individual boy. But as a consequence, some are invited back time after time, and holiday after holiday, while others are thanked, paid and forgotten. So I don't think there is a simple answer to the actual sexuality or bi-sexuality of Pattaya's straight boys, they each fit within a broad spectrum (as do we all as customers I suspect). My preference is for those that at least appear to enjoy their 'work'.

A difficult subject. It wasn't an issue for me when I was a newbie but it became one over the years, not because of the physical reactions of the two of us but due to my emotional responses to what was happening, both during and after the event. This maybe because I'd lived "straight" until my forty-fifth year and from then onwards, ninety percent plus of my gay sexual life was in Thailand, with mbs. I'm not a rarity in this regard; many of the falang guys I met in Pattaya in the late 90s were the same as me in in age, background and experiences. The transition from a repressed sexuality to the freedom and enjoyment of expression was wonderful. And complex. In those days, the years before I met my partner, I looked for, perhaps even needed, an element of reciprocity, even if at some level I accepted that it all was part of the game. My partner admitting to not being gay would have complicated this. I knew it was an illusion and that truth was often concealed. But it was what I required emotionally. Younger gay men may not always remember the struggles my generation went through when what we most deeply desired was declared both illegal and wicked and that disclosure would have resulted in a term in prison and ended my career. In some respects, we remain marked by this even in our joyful liberation, a liberation for which I shall always remain grateful to Thailand. And its mbs.

When approached by anyone with a yarn, I always glance at their feet. Truly down and out guys aren't wearing new Nikes.

One great thing about "repeat offs" is that they eliminate much of the guesswork, allowing you to focus purely on enjoying the moment. Though, I must admit, not every repeat is a hit; some just don't sparkle as much the second time around. Since it was still fairly early, 7 and I headed to Starbucks Montien for a bit of relaxation and chit-chat. Bad move. After snapping a pic of his drink for social media, he seemed... bored. Apparently, there aren't many Surawong people-watching enthusiasts like me! As much as I wanted to unbox and appreciate this fine specimen, I wasn't quite ready to return to the hotel. So, I asked where he’d like to go. Unsurprisingly, his response was the classic, "up to you." Determined to stir things up, I pressed further. "If I were a friend, where would you take me for a fun night?" He got the hint, hailed a taxi, and we ended up at some random bar outside Silom. I can't recall the name, but thank heavens it wasn't an EDM club. The live band played a mix of Thai and English songs, and the vibe was delightfully chill. I genuinely enjoyed myself, and from his smile, I'd say he did too. Afterward, we were starving. We glanced around but nothing caught our eye, so we opted for a delivery via app on our taxi ride back. While waiting in the lobby for our food, he took more selfies—this guy loves the camera. Dinner was peaceful back in the room. He watched TV, while I simply lay there, admiring his beauty. An innocent shower together followed, and we settled in for a good night's sleep. (Okay, kidding. Horizontal calisthenics were obviously part of the deal.) The next morning, around 11am, he left, suggesting we hit another bar later. Tempting, but my trip was nearing its end. In the afternoon, I treated myself to a scrub and massage combo with Tongtong at SSENSE. Normally, I prefer more "legit" spas for scrubs, but after my first session with Tongtong three trips ago, it's now a must-do. Not only does he do a fantastic job, but he's easy on the eyes too. He's a bit reserved, but after four sessions, he's loosened up a bit. The rest of the afternoon was spent finishing up my shopping and packing my haul. By the time I was done, I was exhausted but determined not to let the night slip away. Playing it safe, I messaged Nine from Banana, who was more than happy to meet for a late 11pm dinner. I got a bit nervous when he mentioned he was still with a client, so I gave him 15 minutes before I’d move on to Plan B. Just as I was about to bail, in he walked, all smiles.

the Ice emoji means some drugs and the leaf is weed... the DEA has more info 😱 https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2021-12/Emoji Decoded.pdf Here's some other Grindr translations: Host= a hotel=Airbnb =desperate for attention. It’s my birthday =desperate for attention. Moving soon = desperate for attention. Deleting soon = desperate for attention. Now= I will flake on you and also desperate for attention. "Hi" = Just want sex without any personality engaged. "No time wasters" = I'm a time-waster. "No dickheads" = I always attract dickheads (red flag!). "No Asians sorry" = I'm a dickhead, sorry. "Discrete" = I love endless horny talk about what we'll do together, but I'm unlikely to ever be available to hookup in person. Even if we make a date, I'll probably cancel at the last minute. Repeating already asked questions = I'm chatting to 6 other guys right now. Blank pic = Time-waster. "Horny" = Anything I say now only applies to the next 10 mins. Don't expect me to be into you tomorrow in the same way that I am right now.

Sometimes I wonder about you..... @vinapu has talked about that place so much... I can't wait until you stumble upon Foodland and declare what a discovery it is 🤪

Friendly immigration officer is a very rare species like smiling guys in Moonlight Bar. So far I only encountered one in Singapore and one in the Philippines.

This is my first time to Bangkok and Thailand in general. I have read a lot on this forum and got some great advice from posters. I have been here for a week now did a tour with Mac from siamroads which was great. I just worked up the courage to try some of the Bars. I went to Fresh Boys on Saturday night. I stayed and watched the show I bought one of the guys who caught my eye a drink then ended up offing him which was a great experience. the next night I went to Hot Male watched the show however no one really interested me, I felt the place was much smaller than fresh boys and I didn’t like how bright it was. So I ended up back at fresh boys where the show just ended and I saw boy from night before. He came to say hi than he joined the lineup on stage. I ended up buying him drink. I guess the boys talk cause a couple of his friends on stage was trying to get me to off them as well for threesome, however I ended up just offing original boy who was fun again. onto my question when you buy a drink for one of the boys to sit with you, how long do they usually stay? If you are not interesting in offing how do you politely say thanks for sitting with me but ask them to leave? I think I would ask more boys to sit with me as I would enjoy the company but some of these boys I have no interest in offing. also thanks to to the great advice here I was able to negotiate directly my first time, I am still bit nervous at the bars would like to try some others such as Goodboys I tried looking for The One but could not find it. Thanks for any advice.

good idea, you rewarded his for an impressive street performance. In unsophisticated attempt of scam I was once approached on 2nd Road in Pattaya by farang claiming he is hungry , has no money because girl he took from stole all his money. I was equally straightforward and told him ' I'm chasing boys , you are making wrong choices" or something to this effect. To which his response was equally sophisticated " fuck you fucking fag ". Mine was poetic as well " but my money is not stolen"

those must own extensive stamp collections one presumes

There have been some small updates / corrections regarding this event. https://asiapacificpress.com/648/italian-tourist-66-dies-naked-falling-from-condo-in-pattaya-thailand In summary, what we know so far is: Italian citizen, The above news article has named this person as, Fausto Chiossi, from Capri, Italy, Previously, his age was reported as 57, but instead the above news article states that he was 66 years old, Condo he was renting was on the 19th floor - parking lot facing part of the building - as shown in the video in the above referenced news article. The above article states the following: '.... The man's body will undergo a post-mortem exam to find the exact cause of his death.' Consequently, I have asked one of my good Italian friends to monitor the local news in Italy to see if anything has been reported over in Italy. I have also checked Italian news sources and it appears that nothing has yet been posted about this tragic event. Perhaps the post-mortem exam has not yet been handed over to the Italian embassy in Bangkok ? Today I went to Ayutthaya with the 2 women who clean my condo, with one of their husbands, and we discussed this event at great length - I can share the following additional information - but it is NOT substantiated - and is just hearsay. The additional information is that several cleaners were requested to clean Mr Chiossi's room - as it was (unsubstantiated) reported that there was a lot of blood and disorder to clean up. On the day that solicitations went out to recruit cleaners - my 2 cleaners were not available - and after hearing what the other cleaners saw, they told me that they were glad that they were not available on that day. I can state that many of my fellow farang neighbors are quite concerned about this event. In addition, the security team has greatly increased their controls - as some of my Thai friends have not been permitted to come upstairs (for the last 18 months they have been allowed to come up on their own) and I had to come downstairs to retrieve them and one of the security team specifically asked me if I would be ok with my guests - for which I replied - all is good - they are from the beach volleyball team. Then after our meeting concluded, I went down with my 2 guests to let security know that I am alive and ok. When I know more I will post about it here.

Day 15, last After he left I went to Foodland for breakfast and bought some coffee to take home. At 10 am my forum friend and me met at Mahanakhon and went up . 350 for seniors, 880 regular which climbs to 1080 after 15.30. Today quite clear air so we had nice views. Since I was his first visit I also showed him toilets with best toilet view in the world in opinion of ChristianPFC which I share. At 1 pm Y was supposed to show up in the room but he was bit late. Very pleasant encounter as always. It’s hard to find even small fault with the guy. Apart from usual staff we also had a bit of talk. I asked him about house he is building in his village. He showed me his pictures , it looks that it’s almost completed. I would never expect that but at one moment he told me that I also contributed big chunk to its construction. Not that it’s inaccurate, in last few years I off him regularly and tip him generously , first because his service is second to none , second because I knew he is not squandering money but putting it into construction. I knew all of that but still was thrilled that he noticed and appreciated it. We had also bit teary moment when he pulled pic of his late mother . It turned out we both were by our mother’s sides when they breathed their last. Misty eyes and much stronger mutual hug than normally. At 5 pm we finished our stamps survey and went to Foodland to eat something and the parted ways. If I have any hope about future trips to Thailand it’s that I hope to see him again. In the room I had about 1 hr to pack which was easy as I travel light, then short walk to Chong Nonsi and usual trek via Phaya Thai to Swampy. Checking in and immigration was easy, departure was from new , satellite terminal and soon I was in the air Day 16 Arrived in Munich at 5.30 and since my flight home was at 15.30 I had 10 hours at disposal so decided to do some sightseeing in the city. I visited iconic cathedral with onion like towers , climbed St Peter tower for a view over city including vista of distant Alpes, wandered throughout Viktualien markt and took subway to Alte Pinakhoteke, one of most famous and richest art museums in the world. After 1 station they told us to get out. On the street I heard sirens and soon cavalcade of police vans speeded by. I decided to walk to museum but several street in downtown core were sealed so route I took was very circular but finally got there. Unfortunately because of that police action I was left with less time than I originally planned plus decided to go to the airport sooner in case of another unexpected delayed and as result I was not able to see everything in detail but collection of old masters is very impressive. Bosh, Leonardo, multiple Rubenses and Rembrants , you name it and twice as much . Another walk to railway station , no issue with airport train and soon I was on my way. Immigration at home was also breeze, no ‘ why you travel to Thailand so often’ stupid questions this time. Arrived home just in time to go to bed so jet lag was mitigated this time. Final remarks and summary. It will be brief : Ufffff !

and this is not ONLY a Tawan = The One problem it is almost EVERYWHERE in the gay Thailand world - this FAILURE to implement basic marketing strategies. They will complain that they have no money and no customers but won't take that step to market and/or market themselves to make them visible. Here in Jomtien, so many of the local guys complain that they don't get enough customers but when I look at their app footprint I see the following problems: they only use Hornet and their entire profile is ONLY in the Thai language. I tell them if you want to reach the farang (non Thai) potential client base you need to insert some English words into your profile, many of them do not use Grindr - I keep telling them if you want to get non-Thai customers you need to have a presence on Grindr - as that is where most of the farangs hang out when they do their guy searching via apps. Unfortunately, I have heard horrible stories where if someone reports you as being a money boy (MB) on Grindr or by Grindr themselves they block them at the mobile phone level - meaning that if they even change the email that Grindr associates them with - that Grindr will still block them as somehow Grindr can see the device ID and know that it is them that they already blocked, the Heesay app (formerly BLUED) is really only used by a subset of the larger Asian population (China ? Korea? and some in Thailand). Again, I tell them to insert English words into their Heesay profile, Fear that their "friends" will learn that they are a money boy - so they write their profiles in such a way that a person visiting Thailand would have NO clue that they are available for hire. As for the massage shops here in Jomtien - they are their worst enemy - as the shop owners do not do any marketing of their guys and/or shops like they do in Bangkok - so the guys are left alone to their own devices for marketing purposes. Generally, the guys do not implement a self-promotion marketing plan and prefer to sit on those plastic chairs outside of these small massage shops for 6 to 8 hours a day waiting for that one farang who might chose them. They get desperate, especially if they have only had one customer in a given week. Furthermore, many are freelance - and so the shop does not pay them a salary and if they get a non-Thai customer and that person is not accustomed to giving a tip (on which they survive on to pay the rent and eat) their situation becomes quite dire - as it is very difficult to live on a 20 baht tip. Again, I fault the managers / owners of these small shops for not properly "educating" the incoming customers. In Bangkok, many of the massage shops are quite explicit and clear about how much you (the client) are supposed to tip the masseur as it relates to the requested service.

Thanks for great first trip report. You're learning quickly about boy bar etiquette and customs. Sorry to hear about disappointing massage experience. Inability to get or maintain erection is certainly cause for dismay. Whenever I experience this I usually cut the session short, pay the minimum tip and move on. Luckily this hasn't happened very often. About the difference between photos and the boy who shows up for appointment. Their photos were taken when they first went to work in the shops. In some cases that could be 2-3 years ago. Btw, the soi with Banana Bar is known as Soi 4. The "nine" massage shop you referred to I believe is 9-Teen massage on Silom Soi 6. It's the only shop that only employees Thais and not other ASEAN guys. 9-Teen has two shops on same soi and another around the corner on Silom rd. That you've managed to find a guy from FB's that's compatible is encouraging. Hope your good luck with him continues. Please keep on reporting.

When everything else about your trip's disappointments fade with time, the moments you describe above will persist indefinitely. To know that you truly made a difference in a young man's future is no small feat. You'll very likely find that that those who caused you the most remorse will slowly cease to haunt your consciousness. But the one who shared the most intimate moments with you will be the reason you go to your computer and begin the rebooking process. The older we get the more we realize that we need people like that in our lives. They are far and few between but they do exist. That they challenge our concept of butterfly is something not to be feared.

Makes sense if he's into you... Happens to me when I stay away from the go-go bars too... or walking 😇 I know it's not me, @reader or @vinapu none of us are there....any secret admirers we might know...or guys you meet at the gym?

https://jomtiencomplex.com/jomtien-complex-map/ Red colored places in the below map indicate all of the massage places in or just outside of the Jomtien Complex.

Your contributions are much appreciated, Sudoxi. Trip and venue report have always been--and will remain--the meat and potatoes of the forum. You included the right mix IMO of details that whets the appetite to return. 🙏

correct! I am surprised that so few others thought it was elsewhere! Xboys has those annoying digital clocks in the background, where the time is never correct and both clocks are never on the same time!

HotMale and Dreamboys Pattaya. I like show at XBoys Pattaya but not so much their boys with 1-2 exceptions. In Pattaya Classic boys I did not have pleasure to visit yet, I liked an atmosphere in ToyBoys but only few boys I found attractive, ABomb last time I tried to visit did not have any boys. I did not visit Winners not Nice Boys for more than year and BoyzBoyzBoyz were total disapointment last time - noisy , smoky , all boys bar 2 or 3 totally dressed sand off fee extortionate 1050 baht. In Bangkok those 3 named above are the best for me. I like Jupiter's boys look but don't like their management mandated disinterested look so rarely off from there although last few offs were at least satisfactory. Tawan was my favorite for years to a point of having one trip monodiet offing all my guys from there during trip minus one night but recently boys and mamasan are bit too pushy for both tips and offs for my taste and my last off from there was disappointing sand bag. Dreamboys , GoodBoys and FreshBoys I try to visit every trip but those are not my usual hunting guys. Too many guys at Dreamboys are hailing from soi twilight era and other two are twinks kingdom so not for me although I like an atmosphere in GoodBoys and even like one of mamasans there

of course you will, you don't want to rot in hell for missing it. As spoon said, off fee is 500, only for models is 1000 and you will clearly know who is who as models have their separate parade on the stage. And who knows, you may even say to yourself " hell with extra 500 , lets off that or this guy. Be warned though, models expect and likely get higher tips than floor boys but floor boys are aplenty and quite a few are equally attractive as model stable seems to be in need of update.

I'm in Tokyo at the moment. I visited a newly-opened shopping centre in Harajuku and came across (pun intended) Tenga's latest and greatest store. (Tenga is a wanking toy.) That poor guy can't be getting much sex from his girlfriend. She was helping him choose! And imagine wearing that t-shirt, advertising to the world that you're a wanker! Only in Japan.

Tonight I went to a gay cinema in Ueno. It was one of my favourite haunts when I was living here. I had lots of fun there, especially when I was a student. They let me in even though I didn't look 20 years old. There was a guy there whose specialty was blow jobs. He'd arrive with tissues, bottles of water to wash our cocks, and a bowl into which he spat the cum. We would all form a line and wait out turn, Tonight was even better than I expected. Although they show straight soft porn, it's where gay guys go for fun. Within 5 minutes my pants were around my ankles and a guy was on his knees giving me a truly memorable blow job. He worked on me for around half and hour and then asked me to fuck him. Unfortunately, neither of us had a condom. A bit later he was barebacking. I had a front row view and when he pulled out and came over the guys back, he was greeted with stupendous applause! I hadn't cum yet so was looking forward to my next adventure. It didn't take long. A rather handsome guy - probably in his thirties - sidled up to me and unzipped my fly and down he went. He also worked on me for what seemed like ages and then I suggested we go and sit down. Within seconds he was on my cock again. I apologised for taking so long to cum but he told me not to worry, as he loved to suck and said he could do it all night. So I layed back in the seat, closed my eyes and let him take me to heaven. Every time I felt I was about to cum he'd stop and we'd chat until I was ready to go again. Just as I was getting close again, the lights came on. It was closing time and everyone left. WTF? No!!! I only need a few more minutes! Damn! I should have bought a Tenga! We've made arrangements to meet there again on Wednesday. There's something about the way Japanese guys give blow jobs. They know every technique in the book. They are the absolute best.

Not a definitive answer but based from experience: They will stay as long as you keep the drinks flowing (which can be pricey unless you avail of their bottle service). They will leave everytime they have to do their stage work as their endgame is to be offed. Once the topic of being offed is breached and there's mutual understanding that it will not progress to that stage, handing them a tip is the universal code for saying thanks and you are sending them back to rotation.

Apologies in advance as I am not able to answer @abidismaili's specific question, which is about Pattaya. In any case, @bkkmfj2648 has given you a clear reply. But as I was reading the various posts before that, I saw something that I have commented upon in the past, but it bears repeating. Bangkok and Pattaya are completely different markets, and it is sometimes a source of confusion when we speak of "Thailand". Chiang Mai is different again. Phuket too. Each city's scene therefore has characteristics that reflect its market. To generalise is to mislead oneself. Pattaya is a market for Western tourists who have a tendency to come during the northern winter. It used to be that a considerable number of them stay for about 3 months, thereby boosting the appearance of large numbers (due to longer "dwell-time") when the numbers (in terms of unique persons) were probably never very large. This gave rise to the stereotype of a "high season". I will defer to @bkkmfj2648 observation about Jomtien massage shops, but my recall is that the Boyztown bars do have a higher number of boys on the stage during the northern winter. At least that was what I saw in the years past, I dont know if that is still the case. Pattaya is increasingly also a market for Indian tourists, but they have no interest in the gay scene. Bangkok's gay scene in its central areas (not its suburbs) is a market for Asian tourists, many of whom come from China and neighbouring, tropical countries. The "winter effect" does not apply. Regulars of Bangkok's bars and tourist-oriented massage parlours will tell you that 90 - 95% of the visitors are Asian, and have been so for maybe two decades. Bangkok's gay scene in its central areas have high spikes rather than a high season. They spike when the source country, e.g. China, SIngapore, Malaysia , Taiwan or Korea has a major holiday and long weekend, and these are scattered around the year. Each spike lasts no more than a weekend or a week at most. As for the numbers of boys in Bangkok's "places of interest", my observation is that they do not vary by season. A market that has short-lived spikes here and there does not create enough of seasonality. That said, there is still a significant increase of straight and family Western tourists coming to Bangkok during the northern winter, and this is reflected in hotel and arifare prices; but since they are not into the gay stuff, it has little impact on Bangkok's gay scene. Maybe the number of Westerners in bars will increase to 15% during this period form the usual 5 - 10%, not enough to affect staffing levels in the bars. Chiang Mai is essentially a local Thai market. Its rhythms reflect that. (I have seen, though, hordes of Chinese tourists in northern Thailand and Laos during the Chinese New Year holidays, with many driving in from Yunnan, too; but they're not interested in the gay scene.) Phuket is characterised by a strong surge of tourists during the northern winter. It has horrid weather during the summer monsoon, with rain every day and dangerously rough seas. Phuket is exposed to the Indian Ocean, from where the monsoon comes. Sun and sand is also a greater attraction for Westerners than for Asians, so this explains the high proportion of Western tourists in Phuket, which in turn means a northern winter peak. Now, I believe Russian tourists are the biggest group, and given the severe winter in their country, the "high season" is further reinforced. Despite this, Phuket's gay scene, by all reports, continues to wither. I would have thought that, given the homophobia in Russian society, lots of gay Russians would be eager to come, find a bit of freedom and boost Phuket's gay scene the way homophobia in the West fuelled Pattaya's emergence in the 1980s and 1990s, but apparently there is no sign of that happenning. Maybe @Moses can offer some insight into why this is not happening?

my observations are similar, part I did not like the most was mamasan inserting himself uninvited into discussion about off and tip which ultimately ended as very unsatisfactory and poor value for the money for me . I agree that goys there are still friendly but bar after re-opening seems to lose direction of what it wants to be. Constant asking for tips after each number in the show will make it once-per-trip bar for me if they don't mitigate their ways.

All three members make valid points. Some personal observations: You're more likely to experience guys more willing to pass on extra cash in the bars than in massage shops. The earnings among masseurs vary a lot. Factors include the obvious (attractiveness) and hours worked, but the most successful depend on repeat business from locals and frequent visitors. That repeat business typically comes about if the boy is multilingual and manages to establish a rapport with a client and keeps in touch on a regular basis. Customers satisfaction is the key to their income. As for how hungry individual boys are is a function of two factors: how bad to they need the money (for personal and family demands) and their attitudes to how they most desire to spend what we all know is our most precious commodity: time. Take for example the boy who easily forgoes additional pay for the opportunity to get together with his buds after work. When you're young, that can be a compelling lure. Although farangs recall their work ethic when they were young, don't expect the boys you meet to be impressed. It's a different time and a very different culture.

I just got back from Medellín on Saturday from an eight-day trip. It was my first time in Colombia. I had an amazing trip and never felt unsafe. I will admit that I planned a trip back in April, but then canceled because I read too many Facebook sorry stories about crime. Obviously it's terrible whenever something bad happens to anyone. Like others have noted, common sense and trusting your instincts will go a long way. I don't drink, use other chemicals, and I don't party. I wore an Apple Watch and used my phone occasionally on the street, but I wasn't obnoxious about it. I met up with many guys, mostly from Grindr and mileroticos. They were all very attractive and I had a great time. I did my best to vet them, and make sure they had social media, twitter, an onlyfans, etc. My sense is that many were interested in ongoing financial support, either directly or through through their websites. To be blunt, if they kill you they might get what's in your wallet that day, but nothing in the future. I think the best advice I can give you is to spend time with the local guys, and they will look out for you. The local job market is really tough and there are many guys on Grindr who are unemployed and bored. I was very interested in seeing the sites around town, like Comuna 13, museums, Pueblito Paisa, parks, and Guatepe. I met up with two guys in particular and offered to buy them lunch and pay for travel expenses. Both were happy to take me around town and were very proud of their city and its culture. One even took me up to Mirador Picacho in the evening to see some breathtaking views of the city at night. I was a bit apprehensive but it was worth it. The trip to Guatepe was also worth the two hour Uber drive! I'm already planning my next trip back. There are many more things I want to see and guys I just didn't have time to meet up with!

So gone are the days when I would spend a week or two in Thailand, but I will be in Thailand for a few days next week. So if people can help a long-time poster out with some questions, I would be grateful! 1. Anyone in Bangkok the same time who want to meet up? PM me. 2. I'll be staying in Pattaya for a few days, and not looking to stay close to where the action is, and I am looking to more upscale hotels that have beach access. How does one get around Pattaya if I am staying at the Intercontinental or the Hilton? I've always stayed close to Boyztown so never really thought about how to do this. 3. Are there any good beaches in Pattaya? Is that a stupid question? LOL Thank you! Incidentally, I was in Bangkok earlier this year for a few days, and I had two amazing short time sessions from a boy in Dream Boy and another from Hot Male. I paid 2500 baht for both. Dare I say it, but the Dream Boy sex was reminiscent of how the Brazilians do it, so it was particularly memorable.

Wow @Verchiele what you write is SO true...... When I lived in Rome, Italy - my FAVORITE discoteca was the Muccassasina https://www.muccassassina.com/ Well, in one of their bathrooms (when it was operating out of the Qube building) - there was this extra "special" exit just near the urinals. Well, once you entered into this special exit - you entered into a dark maze where many of these HOT Italian guys (gay, bi, "straight") would have their pants open stroking on their meat. They would often join you, go down on you, or push your head down so you could service them. Often these interactions were quick - because often the guy would run back into the bathroom to clean up and go outside to rejoin his friends or girlfriend. On one of these encounters, I was so taken with one of these hot Italian studs that I followed him in a sneaky way - after he had just finished to blow me - and his girlfriend was waiting outside of the bathroom and she started to bark at him for taking so long as she wanted to dance and he just planted a big kiss on her lips to shut her up - I found that scene so enjoyable because 20 seconds prior his lips were busy servicing my cock and now he is kissing her.....amazing!!! So, what @Verchiele wrote, "and when people are "in the mood", I think a meat is a meat." 🤪

Here's an idea: Buy a holiday home in Thailand, plant some cacti and hire this guy to prune them 😁:

I arrived at Swampy this afternoon and the fast tracks were all active, just as in the past. Went through in less than 3 minutes. There were long queues for those who didn’t qualify.

The only close to a Penthouse Forum experience I ever had was when I was staying in an apartment on a six week out of town work assignment. There was a tall lanky carpenter living across the hall and every morning I'd see him walking to work, work belt around his hips and I'd sigh with lust. One evening he saw me in the hallway and invited me in for a whiskey. We drank a lot of whiskey, to the point that I went and sat cross legged on the floor right below where he was sitting on the couch. Incredibly after a few minutes he reached a foot out to my lap.... I began stroking it and he suggested we get naked. As soon as that happened I leaned over and took his cock in my mouth... sadly he pulled away but leaned his head over to me so I rose up and put my tongue in his mouth. He pushed me away laughing.... and said he wanted to fuck me bareback and then I should fuck him. This was when HIV and AIDs were a lot more serious and I wasn't keen on the bareback... I was just trying to convince him on oral when his drunk girlfriend started pounding on the door and yelling to let her in. He told me to grab my stuff and go to the bathroom. He let her in and when they went into the living room I escaped to my apartment. The next morning I found my shirt hanging on my door. And when I saw him later that day I said, are we cool, and he said yes. But we never spoke again. I think the alcohol was enough to loosen his inhibitions, but I'd say he was mostly straight. He was so hot though, I hated his girlfriend.

I just now finished a 4 hands massage and one of the 2 "masseurs" was a guy who works in the Sunee Intimate Boy Bar within the Jomtien Supertown Complex and I asked him about what happened based on @Olddaddy post and he did say that the bar had to shut down for a day or 2 - as per a "delicate incident" - which has now been resolved and all is back to normal. Even yesterday, the Twitter (X) page for @GaySupertown was updated with the below photo of the 14 guys who work there. My masseur guy is not in the below photo - he said that he is shy. But it is amazing that 15 guys can work in one small bar - but they do put on dance shows for entertainment and it is right next door to The Venue - one of the 2 cabaret bars in the complex.

@Verchiele I shall be looking forward to your reports. Whilst I have heard some reports of the burgeoning "onsen" scene in Bangkok, I have never been to any. No interest ever, even though I am a fan of true Japanese onsens. I've heard that - maybe you'll confirm in due course - whilst the original rules in the Bangkok places were full nakedness like in Japan, it was impossible to demand it in the Thai places, so now there is an uncomfortable mix of naked and covered men. Moreover, despite a lot of mutual looking, the places are very strict on new-found couples progressing to "action". Also (if I may be an onsen snob 😉) , what the Thais call an "onsen" is not a true onsen, since a true onsen uses mineralised water from geothermal sources - and indeed the water feels different. Using municipal water and warming it up does not count.

I don't know @floridarob, this usual complaint is always put on this board. The standard complaints of "I remember when it was 500 baht for short time!" or as @vinapu puts it: "the water was wetter in my day", is running against the same cross currents as previous punters have seen. At some point certain realities need to be put into consideration. Maybe 150 reais is not worth it to them anymore. We complain when a garoto de programa is late for an appointment with us, saying that tardiness just does not fly if you are in a first world country, but if they put the same value on their time by putting a "por hora" rate that puts more value on their time (like in first world countries), we complain as well. I've probably been known to pay more maybe, in this board and in the sauna, and I don't mind that. I'd rather pay 300 reais for mind-blowing sex (and i've had that experience in Lagoa when I was there recently), that paying 150 reais to a reluctant boy who thinks its not worth his time and goes through the motions. As a result I think the boys seek me out in the sauna, and try to deliver almost everything I would want in a programa, because they all talk to each other as you know, and they know what they are getting from me. Even if I'm always in Brazil, my time is short, and I have no patience, nor the time, to going through a bad programa. I know a boy who is probably one of the top earners in Lagoa, and he said 150 reais has not been the average rate for a few years now. He told me Lagoa was super busy last Friday, and he knew it was gonna be full of boys and clients, and most (not all) of the clients would be offering 150 reais. When he saw this he just turned around and left and got some work online, which to him was a better use of his time. He has his reasons that he still like going to Lagoa (more volume business and makes his daily routine more manageable than the 24/7 nature of online work), but sometimes it is not worth enough for him to go. And of course, the saunas outside of the Lagoa-117-Pointe nexus will still have the sub-150 rate that is preferable, but that has their own downsides (quality of boys or saunas not as good etc), but it is still possible to have the "Brazil Classic" experience that we all look back with nostalgia. Just my 2 cents, and YMMV.

Go where you feel you get the most bang for your dollar and hopefully in those countries you won't have the same experience Nah, not that...it's the new generation coming up...between the bartenders at 117 and tonight the cashier at Lagoa, they are in agreement, some of the guys are asking for more, figuring why should they do 2 programas when they can do less work and get asshole gringos that will pay it. I sat at a table tonight with @Lucky, talking to some locals...they brought up boys are asking for more from foreigners for more, because they pay it....ruining it for them....something I've preached here since the board started. When is the last time you've been here....if you follow Thailand boards, you'll see @vinapu ran into something similar on his last trip. You always respond with lot's of maybe's....usually with looks or something like that....you must be a God yet going to GP saunas 😄

I still have not yet had the privilege to go up to the top of Mahanakhon - so, I may chase you the next time I join you in BKK to take me up there - I will insist to buy your ticket - as maybe you are already starting to get bored by taking all of us forum members up there ? 🤔 That was very touching - thanks for sharing it with all of us. Perhaps a section of his new home will be dedicated to KFC? perhaps the foundation of the house (building blocks) ? maybe one day you will find yourself visiting his home? Two of my Dongtan beach volleyball friends were VERY proud to show off the homes that they had built back in their home towns (Sukhothai and Phitsanulock) - where the one in the suburbs of Sukhothai was palatial and the one in Phisanulock was modest and is where I slept. As you Vinapu, it made me feel good that our guys did not squander their money and in fact did prepare for their respective futures - as well as to take care of their families. Pattaya is SO full of what I like to call, "Thai economic refugees", where they are only in Pattaya temporarily - usually in their young years - to extract as much money as is possible from us - so that these monetary funds can be sent back to their home villages for their families and for that dreadful day when they realize that they are no longer marketable to the tourists of Pattaya - as in expired milk. @vinapu my sense of it is that BKK is also a part of this economic refugee phenomena. Would you agree?

What Vinapu wrote about the cost is VERY true. The only way to mitigate this to get more "bang for the buck" is to make sure that both of the guys that you want to make the 4 hands with are: into each other, agree on the program menu (s = soft like reciprocal handjobs, ss = everything outside of the anal sphincter, h = hard - includes anal sex - but need to identify who would do who - i.e., who would agree to be a bottom). If you can get the above details worked out before the performance begins then the additional cost can be worth it. If any of the above details go out of whack - then the value for money will deteriorate. see my list above Furthermore, I found the BIGGEST issue about 4 hands, 6 hands, or 8 hands - is whether the guys will kiss. I found that the guys are more willing to do the above mentioned 's' and 'ss' activities MORE than kissing. It seems that kissing is one step too much - perhaps too intimate ?? For the 'h' category - I noticed that kissing tends to be more included - I guess this may be relevant to the intimacy required for a "good fuck"?? I am not sure - as I am not a big consumer of 'h' activities - as I tend to prefer 's' and 'ss' activities, as they are more aligned with SIDE activities like sensual edging - which I am a big consumer of. Lastly, as a SIDE, where we are a minority within the greater sexual community - I note that many times when I order up a 4 hands massage - that sometimes the 2 guys are really into each other and they ask me if they can fuck - and I almost always say yes - as it is a turn on for me to watch 2 guys get intimate with each other within my vicinity - however, after they finish their fucking activities I request that we still conclude with them edging me to a hot climax - as I like my orgasm to always be last - as the sounds, sights, and orgasms of the others is a real turn on for me. @macaroni21 --> would you mind to jump in regarding these questions? I willingly refer to you, because I notice that you have an innate way of seeing things from a better and deeper statistical point of view than I do.