Londoner

I recall a guy I took from Toyboys when I was a player on Pattaya scene. It must have been the early 2000s. After I'd paid him, he told me that he was going to dinner because he hadn't eaten for two days....business in Boyztown had been slow. A few minutes later, I left the hotel to go to 7 11 and there he was , sitting outside Toyboys with a large plate of food and some fruit. In those days, there were a number of food vendors in the area. He waved to me and pointed at the food, as if I could miss it. Sentimental old man I may be, but I was happy for him. Two or three years later, when the" Kamphaet Three" as I call them came to Pattaya, one of whom was P., I learnt that the guys on the scene took care of each other in times of hardship. If one of the Three had enjoyed a successful liaison (financially!), it was accepted that he'd buy dinner for all.... the reason was that the guys were living and existing from day to day. As an example of this, P didn't have enough money for the bus fare to see his beloved parents at Songkran, indeed hadn't seen them for a year. I cannot say if this is still true today but I suspect that that some guys are in difficulties. When I last walked through the Jomtien Complex in November there were barely fifteen falang punters. And many guys. Of course, there are the apps , so who knows? Nevertheless, I learnt from my relationship that what we can give can make a huge difference, whether it be a much-needed meal, or a bus ride home. And yes, OK, perhaps a pair of trainers of a much-valued brand....that too. So I'm with Olddaddy.

Newbies welcome. To Thailand and to this forum. If hairybearberlin has 50% of the fun I've had, he'll be happy....and I'll be happy to answer his questions if others don't do so before me.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered. As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Caveat emptor. I've said this before , but here goes.... In this game, the buyer always takes a risk. I recall taking guys back to the hotel after enjoying all sorts of clandestine festivities and salacious hints in the bar, captivated by their good looks and apparent willingness. And then, even walking back along Surawong or wherever, noticing a distinct change in attitude. Less accommodating, you could say. This followed by doing the absolute basics in the room, collecting the money (once or twice even neglecting to shower) before rushing back to the bar for assignation number two. Or three. Even the most experienced of us cannot be sure. As for today's market, I am certainly aware of old photos being used on- line. Inaccurate descriptions, promised activities denied and much else. Sometimes, it has to be admitted, by falangs themselves.... or so I'm told. And my answer is always the same. It's part of the game; live with it and "move on" to the next guy. He may turn out to be a stunner....or even a life partner! Punters should also remember that the guys themselves take risks. Is this kindly falang in the photo or the bar a wannabee Hannibal Lector? will he demand activities I don't like? will he pay what I need? or what I was promised? will he even be clean? if you play the game, you must accept that occasionally- in my experience very rarely- you will sometimes lose or have to be satisfied with a draw.

Alas! the lift-guy at Tarntawan, for whom I'd long had the hots, departed a few years ago when there were many staff-changes following the change of ownership. He'd been there for years and, like others, was very upset to leave. The lift is unmanned nowadays. However, returning to the theme of the thread, I concur with the advice of others. The key is finding guys who fancy each other but are not close friends. Guys from two different bars may be a better bet. My experience was pre-dating app; I summoned-up the courage to achieve a long-held desire, taking a couple from Sunee who were friends at a host bar. They lay either side of me, each taking it in turn to pleasure me but never touched each other. It was embarrassing. Never again.

Not to mention MK and its dancing waiters.

I appreciate the variety on this site, just as I enjoy the variety of experiences offered by my many (eighty plus) trips to Thailand. I suspect that, were reports from bars the only content, I'd be an occasional visitor only and not a contributor. But they're not. We explore issues that are more applicable to the wonderful times I spend there...tourism and hotels, eating-out, travel, culture, history Including that of the gay scene, politics and the joys and tribulations of relationships with our beautiful hosts. Regarding that final one, this is the only forum on which I can discuss my own relationship openly and without provoking rancour. And that's precious to me.

Things aren't so clear-cut in rural areas where there remain plenty of closeted guys fearing exposure to families.

Anyone remember the glossy tourist freebies that were available in hotels a couple of decades ago? The adverts for escorts- female ones- included not only alluring photos but lists of the names of models available. They included famous Hollywood actresses and singers, Madonna, for example. I wonder if any punters were disappointed when they opened their doors? Perhaps a similar, if less outrageous element of exaggeration (or wishful thinking) is at work here?

To be fair to such as I, it's not a boast; it merely reflects the fact that those of us who are now in LTRs prefer activities that both parties can share and enjoy. It recognises one of the positives of Pattaya and Bangkok, that even when those activities which gave such immense pleasure over the first ten years of my visits are no longer part of my experience, there is still much on offer that can enjoy together.

Old Daddy is right. And it's a shame. I also liked Baht-Stop; it was very different to other forums, more political, and that interested me. I learnt a lot about Thai politics from a few posters and was able- I can claim- to offer an unusual perspective on Palestine since I was spending a lot of time there in the early 2000s. The only explanation I can offer for the decline is that there are fewer gay visitors to Thailand than twenty years ago. Furthermore, there may be less interest, perhaps, in "literary" communication and (here's shot in the dark!) the gradual replacement of lap-tops by phones and the consequent increased difficulty of posting more than slogans -at least for me- has contributed.

Can we discuss the Italian director Pasolini? or is my interest too eccentric for other posters? Like Zeffirelli and the English director of Billy Liar and Midnight Cowboy, John Schlesinger, Pasolini was gay and some (though not all his films ) have a gay theme or subtext. He was murdered by a rent-boy in Rome, though there have always been suggestions that it was a political assassination since Pasolini was an active Communist at a time when the party was a powerful force in Italy. The films to see? My favourites are Arabian Nights, Accatone, Mama Roma,and- bizarrely- The Gospel According St Matthew, which portrays Christ as a working-class hero. All beautiful and all controversial, often using amateur actors. Then there's Salo, his final masterpiece, which was banned. I had to join a cinema club to see it and even then it was cut mainly due to scenes of torture that remain disturbing. Are other people- presumably of my generation- fascinated by Pasolini, both as man and director? In general, the European films of the 60s and 70s remain more interesting to me than Hollywood productions of the same period.

As long I can get a decent night's sleep, I don't care.

That is indeed true. And thank God for it. P. was, in those days a regular at the Dammakaya Temple (DMK) in Bangkok- like many of the Pattaya guys- and had told me that there was degree of ambivalence on the issue in its teachings. P's family know that he is gay (not to mention me!) but in rural communities, what is known is not always mentioned and certainly not displayed. I still think P. was making a statement that evening.

My sleep at Agate has never been disturbed by JC bars and we retire early. More noise tends to emanate from other directions, but never enough to bother us.

Having struggled and failed to be straight in my younger days, I've always felt that I was "owed" a younger companion in my dotage. The more salient question is "should younger guys be embarrassed about being seen with us?" The issue of them being seen as mbs arises. I recall the first time I accompanied P. outside Boyztown, not sure how I would feel in his company and how he would feel about being seen with me. it was painless for both and this has remained so for twenty years from Chiang Rai to Krabi. A significant moment occurred after three years when we attended a temple fair across the road from Boyztown. He insisted on holding my hand- something we always do now- and I was a surprised that he, a devout Buddhist, chose to do so there of all places. It may have been a significant decision on his part because I remember his participating in some devotions while I watched.

Nor I...in my salad days, I wanted to meet one guy in a bar, take him to my room and keep the raving private. And this I did, with pleasure, for many years.

By the way, what will become of the Ramada site in Surawong? another hotel? or apartments?

If that were true, I wouldn't have stayed there on so many occasions! The a/c is both efficient and quiet.

As I've posted many times, I can recommend Tarntawan after more than fifty stays there. Its 300m from Patpong. And quiet! I've just booked a room for March via Agoda; £42 pn. Many gay visitors. And many "friends" of gay visitors.

Don't forget the impact of birth-control; on rural families. Large families fuelled the journey to Pattaya; the fifth and sixth child could not be supported at home. Condoms became widely available, in part due to the work of a guy whose name I can't recall....you, know, the one who owned the restaurant called Cabbages and Condoms. A true Thai hero.

Loy Krathong was a pleasant occasion on Jomtien Beach last week, with its lanterns, krathongs and children playing in the sea. A family occasion, gentle and very Thai. That evening lingers in my memory as London freezes on my arrival back home. Songkran, on the other hand....for me, once bitten (in 1999) twice shy. I agree with TMax.

It's hard to take seriously a TV doc in which the commentator cannot even pronounce "Pattaya". Pa-TTAI-ya?

Ladyboy beauty competitions were apparently held in at least one school in northern Thailand pre- 2000, I am reliably informed.

Much more expensive, I cannot deny. Mainly because of the travel. Once there, hotel rates are cheap compared to Europe and food....well, we eat well though not extravagantly every night. Neither of us drinks alcohol which is a help, but we find it nigh on impossible to spend more than 1000 bht for two. Three trips a year, each of three weeks. Some consider this too little- I agree sometimes- but I find the anticipation and then the recollection of the days in Thailand means that I always have something to look forward to. And my life in London has pleasures that not available in Thailand, cultural, political and sporting- if you can call being a season-ticket holder at a Premiership football club "sporting"!