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  1. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in Report on Phuket   
    you got it right, we mostly discuss tip to high, no too low.
    but I have similar ,not as drastic story from BBB. I had hots for some guy, offed him few times and went early to off him again. He was sitting and drinking with some Oriental lady already. I tried to outwait her , then watched the show and probably past midnight gave up , taking another guy hoping mine got offed or at least tipped handsomely.
    Next day I return , he was available and took him home. told him about waiting and asked him about off and tip. Answer was no off and 100 ( one hundred) baht for being prevented from off for whole evening. He lost 1900 as I'd tip him 2000.
    It's why on my last trip I did not take any offense when while sitting with boy in HotMale mamasan came and asked me if I'm taking guy because somebody else is interested.
    I said no, tipped guy and he went with some guy 1/3 of my age and another boy from that bar.
  2. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to Gaybutton in Report on Phuket   
    That is extremely rare, but I have actually witnessed that sort of thing happen.  Some may remember the Kaos go-go bar in Sunee Plaza - very long gone now.  I became friendly with one of the dancers, June.  A farang customer called him over to sit with him.  The farang spent the next hour publicly groping him to the point it was obvious June was embarrassed and humiliated.  Then the farang gave him a tip.  20 baht!  I was furious and I had seen this farang before, so he knew damned well how much Thai money is worth.  I went over and gave June 100 baht right in front of the farang and said I just gave him one fifth of what you should have given him.  The farang was completely unfazed.
    A few days later I was back in the bar.  That farang was not there.  June told me that same farang made an arrangement for June to come to his room one afternoon.  June went.  When he got there and knocked on the door, the farang opened the door and told June he already has a boy inside, then he shut the door in June's face - not even giving him baht bus fare. 
    That was the last time I ever saw or heard anything about that guy.  I hope somewhere along the way he did that to the wrong boy and got the shit beaten out of him, but I never saw him again.  I asked June why, knowing the kind of person this farang was, did he agree to go to the man's room.  He said he needed the money.
    So yes, no question that people like that are out there.  Fortunately people like that are quite rare.  Even if the bar had told him how much he should tip, do you truly believe he would have complied?  I don't.  I think he would have done the same thing no matter what he was told and probably continued doing that wherever he went.
    Again, fortunately that kind of behavior is extremely rare and does not happen often enough to change my personal opinion about tipping.  I have a feeling nobody reading this board would ever dream of treating a boy that way and probably has never seen anyone do that sort of thing.  But I cannot argue that it never happens, especially when I witnessed it myself.
  3. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to PeterRS in Report on Phuket   
    They have to be called tips because in Thailand the provision of sexual services at a fee is illegal. A reality of which a few may still not be aware. 
    I see your point - but do not fully agree with the comparisons. At a restaurant the bill for your food and drinks already includes wages for all the staff. Many waiters hope for something extra in the form of a tip but have no guarantee. And clearly no waiter is in a position to negotiate a tip. But most will still be earning a liveable wage. If they find it's not, then they move on to another restaurant or elsewhere.
    I do not know what basic wage, if any, the boys get from working in the various types of bar. But I'm pretty sure that it does not compare to most other service businesses as it will be far from a liveable amount. So they are not only expected to generate income for the bar from inflated drinks prices and off fees, they have to earn their own "tips" on top. I also have no doubt that most of the boys discuss what tips they get from customers and this leads to a minimum expectation. But like the waiter, they have no guarantee. Whatever a boy may ask for, it's a negotiable amount dependant on quite a number of factors. As you write, it is merely an "expected" amount but to a considerable extent it is dependent on all the various aspects of supply and demand. Same now with the apps.
    I do agree that the situation was different 30 - 40 years ago though. In those times all the boys westerners came across in the gogo and host bars were Thais from very poor upcountry families. There were no mobile phones and fancy clothes so much of what they "earned" went back to their families. "Tips" were very much dependent on a boy's attractiveness to customers and how well he performed during the off. In my experience "tips" were never discussed in advance and I can recall only one occasion (of many!) when a boy asked for a bit more than offered. 
    My comments are based almost exclusively on Bangkok because I have little experience of offs in Pattaya.
  4. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to bkkmfj2648 in Report on Phuket   
    This is SO true.  Now that I live here I can take it slow and decide with whom I want to make my regulars.  Prior to retiring here - I felt rushed to take an off because each day that I did not was a day closer to when my flight to return back to Europe was approaching.  So, I tried to maximize my acquisitions during my vacation.  Now, I am lucky if I have 3 per week and that is ok with me - no rush, better selection, and less pressure.  For the monetary part, I pay on the upper acceptable range as I have got to know many of the guys and I check up on them regularly and their income streams are VERY erratic.  It is VERY rare that they "get lucky" every single day.  Sometimes they don't have a customer for 4 days.  I definitely feel for them.
  5. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to Londoner in Back in Thailand from Laos - November 2022 trip report   
    Transactional sex can be mysterious. Our mood and the way we communicate  can differ by the night, but that is also true of guys on the scene. I certainly remember occasions when I offed a smiling, seemingly enthusiastic guy from a bar and,  on the way back to the hotel, realised that It wasn't going to be good. It was like meeting two different guys.
    Sometimes our style just doesn't work. For example, an old  expat friend, now sadly departed, on one of my early inexperienced trips raved about a particular guy and advised me to meet him.  I did and couldn't get any response him- he seemed uncomfortable. The assignation was my shortest ever!
    What surprised  me was that I had seen my friend  be quite aggressive, even overwhelming with the guys while I'm a lot more gentle. I assumed that a guy would prefer my style. I was obviously completely wrong. It was long ago but it taught me something.....that the guys on the Pattaya scene, like us, are not all the same. And that also like us, their attitudes, wishes and preferences can vary even by the day.
  6. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to bkkmfj2648 in Back in Thailand from Laos - November 2022 trip report   
    Oh Vinapu - I also recently had this dilemma here in Pattaya.  @spoon is a witness during his recently completed visit here.  We went together a couple of nights to X-Boys and we had GREAT times there.  It was their 13th anniversary and one of the nights it was full house with NO empty seats.  So, I get so goo-goo gaa-gaa for one of the X-Boys dancers.  I call him over to sit with us and we start caressing and kissing (I rarely kiss like that) each other in the bar on 2 distinct nights.  I made @spoon crazy by only talking about my X-Boy guy.  As I prefer afternoon or early evening in-home encounters I invited my X-Boy guy to my place.  Well, guess what - he is cold and not kissy or romantic at my place.  I am so confused - as he was the complete opposite in the X-Boy bar and even showing off when we were together to his other X-Boy colleagues.  One night after the bar closed - he asked me to stay and he danced on the stage pointing to me.  To this day, I cannot figure out what went wrong?  I have to admit - that with my clothes on I am a fairly good looking guy.  However, when I am naked I am less attractive (no gym and resulting belly) - so perhaps him seeing me naked put him off ?
    So, even though he was smiling at me - like you write - something just did not work out when the big moment arrived in my place.  Did we have sex?  Yes.  Was it good?  Yes.  But, it was more cold and mechanical and was missing the "romantic" part that he displayed within the walls of his X-Boys bar.  Perhaps that is the way he fishes?  The temporary romance is part of the charm (bait) to capture his prey (fish)  ???
  7. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in Back in Thailand from Laos - November 2022 trip report   
     Usually after such long trip I’m happy to go back home but somehow not this time. I could easily use 1-2 more weeks, perhaps because not all time was debauchery, in Cambodia only in the evening , in Laos only once. I liked my tourist program in both countries and hope to repeat it soon.  Surprisingly perhaps  guy I consider most memorable of the whole trip was one whom I did not even off, that hunk I met in Space Hair bar in PP. Perhaps that’s good  - reason to return there sooner the better.
    I was thrilled to reunite with B from Tawan after I lost all hope I will see him ever again. A, V and X were perfect trio , each in own way but all three blended perfectly good looks with proper attitude and service avoiding drama , excessive compensation request and what it’s specially unnerving me , questions ‘ can I go now”.
    Despite some troubles , after all those years dreaming about offing him I still enjoyed my time with HC and am glad I and my friend could help him in his hour of need, not only financial one. Another very memorable encounter was with P from HotMale  and he may remember me too as I have feeling I could be his fist customer in the business.
     Shining 8 days were when 18past19 and I were together in Bangkok , for half of this time even in the same hotel as we had fun talking , eating , boy hunting and gossiping about boys. Finally after all those years, almost 9,  I managed to meet bkkmfj, nothing beats finally meeting face behind the name. My apologies to aussie_ and gaybutton I did not even report I’m in Pattaya but my time there was short and bit busy.
     It was double and triple fun to chat, eat and drink with anddy, ChristianPFC, whom I met in 2 countries this trip , floridarob (another one I only met first time this trip managing initially mistake other bar patron for him ) , paulsf and  reader. Thank you for your time my forum friends .
    My apologies to mamasan Lucy for tipping her only 50 baht , still 50 more than I originally intended.
    I’m glad Madrid Tavern is keeping her standard in new location , not as remote as we expected, I was well fed all 4 times I was there with 18, anddy , Christian and HC.
     G’Bangkok remains my to go place whenever I miss Mom’s cooking but at end of day nothing beats Unesco designated World Heritage, 7.5 star Foodland Patpong for gourmet food, ambiance , friendly service and pricing and being meeting point available for us 8 days a week 25 hours a day.
     When comes to hotels I continue to be fan of both Raya and Furama Sathorn Exclusive. Sadly it look that this trip was at tail end of low hotel prices . For fun I checked yesterday  ones for mid January and it looks they went up 2-3 times , no more we have Tarntawan, Copa or Furama Silom for 20$. Market economy at work I guess.
     Senso after re-opening disappointed me a bit, Arena on another hand is still in the best form , I’d even say crew is better than last few times and they never slack on service or time.
     There were two  historical events this trip for me. First time ever I offed Jupiter guy and was very happy with experience to a point  when I met him night or two later on the street I wanted to take him off again but he was already booked.
     Another one was taxi trip to Pataya, both ways on both occasions. I always considered it waste of money, which I still do but on shorter trip , like mine this time , is quite effective and enjoyable waste. At 1200 it’s still almost 10 times bus fare but time saving is also substantial , half time spent on the road door to door. For 2 or 3 people it’s even more price friendly.
     There are also clouds on horizon, not sure is owing to my attitude , age , perceived stinginess or God knows what , certainly not lack of hygiene, but I had few times when boys did not want to go with me , at least initially or after 1st encounter weren’t keen on repeat even if I was. Sore example  was Senso guy who took pains to avoid looking at me altogether next time I visited. Perhaps I should take more seriously my  own advice to hire only and exclusively guys who are smiling at me. That’s my New Year resolution, honestly.
     I’m not sad or upset , just curious. It’s even handed in a sense because it works both ways. There are guys who try to attract our attention and we, certainly me,  are trying to avoid their eyesight.   One thing is sure – that was my last trip to Thailand in 2022 as my passport expired and I’m waiting for new one.
  8. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in My BF is into older farang   
    or to show off his farang catch  to friends in that bar.
    You are right , one of common mistakes we make is to drag offed guy to bars , restaurants, trips etc. assuming by definition he will be interested. I was the same until guy told me " I don't like go there, everybody will be steering at me with you " when I suggested some fancier restaurant on my birthday. 
    If I have boy already but want to go to bar i.e. to see show or meet farang friend I ask him if he wants to go or wants stay in the room to watch TV and what I save on his drink there I add to his tip. Almost universally with notable exception of certain V they opt for being paid to watch TV with ego booster fact that I trust them enough to leave them in my room ( never crossed my mind until boy actually told me that " you no worry  only me in room ?" )
    Even atop of Mahanakhon where I took few guys over last few years I noticed once  that my boy tries hard to be as far as possible from where I'm  so I let him roam freely sensing the same reason. 
    On another had when boy is willing it may be quite rewarding. In May, when I told my boy du night  that in the morning we are waking early because I'm planning early  Grand Palace visit with other forum member and said he can join if he wants he jumped on occasion immediately and while there he was as interested in sights as we both were if not more so it was good time for us all three. He even went as far as calling his mother in Cambodia to boost about what he saw and show off his farangs.
  9. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in My BF is into older farang   
    fairly easy task on apps like Grindr 
  10. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to jason1975 in Christmas in Bangkok (Dec 2022)   
    Christmas Day and I felt recovered so was no longer in hotel room whole day. Went out to shopping malls for lunch and sightseeing and got a Line message from Spoon. He's returning to Bangkok from Pattaya. Wanna meet? Sure. At 5pm, I was at Furama Silom. He just arrived from Pattaya. Waited for him to check into his room then we took a taxi to Chulalongkorn University Park where the Royal Bangkok Orchestra was giving an outdoor performance. Delightful orchestra with two talented Thai vocalists - a male and a female. The Orchestra used to perform at Lumpini Park pre-Covid and they were pleased to announce that next year onwards they will be going back to Lumpini Park! Forum member andy and his Thai local friend were there and Spoon and I decided to join them for some local activity tonight. After the orchestra performance, we split up. Spoon and I went to Soi 4 for dinner. It was early and Spoon went back to hotel to freshen up as well as meet a friend. I headed to Hotmale Beer Bar 1st floor and everyone was working tonight! New waiter hunk was seated with customer. Alex the bar tender was charming farang customers at bar table as usual. Aung was in waiter uniform but after a farang customer arrived, he changed out to boyish outfit of T-shirt, shorts, long socks and sneakers. His customer remained at bar table and they chatted while seated closely. I presume they would go off together later that night. Twinky Laos waiter who loves dancing and singing chatted with me whole night. Found out that this bar had only Myanmar and Laos waiters - 4 each plus 2 Thais. The beer bar below Freshboys was fully staffed by Vietnamese waiters according to him. Spoon stopped by with his friend at around 10.30pm. I introduced new waiter hunk to him and latter gave look of approval. Spoon and friend went to Moonlight to catch special Christmas show while I had a date with guys at Banana. I said goodbye to waiters of Hotmale Beer Bar 1st floor and went around giving tips. See you next year 2023. I made my way to Banana. Quite a full house of customers. Their guys in white shorts were standing on stage. Shouldn't the show be on at that time? Did the first show started earlier and ended and now waiting for 2nd show? No matter, I saw my guy - a Laos guy I offed from Freshboys back in June but he moved to Banana. I also called down two of his Laos friends. All of them used to be from Freshboys. Mamasan was surprised that I was taking 3 guys. 500 baht off fee x 3 = 1500 baht. Plus my drink 450 baht. Total 1950 baht. I gave two 1000-baht notes. I drank my orange juice while waiting for the 3 guys to get changed. In fact, I didn't even wait for change of 50 baht to be returned before 4 of us hurried out of the bar! We walked out to Silom Road and I told the guys we would go past Patpong Night Market towards Le Meridien. I deliberately didn't want the Hotmale Beer Bar 1st floor waiters as well as Dreamboys and Freshboys staff to see us. In hotel room, no, we didn't have a foursome. We just drank and played cards. There was forfeit. Loser would drink and take off an item of clothing and yes, one of the Laos guys ended up with only a cushion covering his dick at the end of the game. At around 1 am, we finish the whisky and beer. I tipped them generously for their time. I went down with them to lobby so that hotel staff don't get alarmed and worried for me. I waved the half-drunk but very happy Banana Laos guys goodbye and Merry Christmas. I turned back towards the lobby and I bumped into a Tawan guy on his way out. It was obvious he had just finished a short-time session with a customer in hotel. We smiled and greeted each other. I had been at Tawan with Spoon one week earlier and that's how we could recognise each other. So on this Christmas Day, no sex for me but I had enjoyable time. I especially enjoyed being Santa Claus and making my friends very happy. Ho Ho Ho. Merry Christmas!
  11. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to Jimbillp in access to hotel swimming pool   
    The trinity Silom complex has a gym and 25m outdoor pool. It’s also got some great views as on 9th floor.  300 baht day pass. 
  12. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to 12is12 in Phuket: report by Emiel1981   
    There's VERY little udated on Phuket in this Thailand section, and the last sex thread in the Business-Phuket section is 7 months old. I decided to give Phuket its due, and received Emiel's permission to copy-paste here his GREAT Spt report (minus photos), originally a bit buried in pp 7-8 of his magesterial Thailand trip. It can be viewed it in its entirety here: 
    I hope this will simplify searches for the Phuket-minded. It will also help to better understand my two forthcoming reports.
    So here it is:
    In evening it was time to head to Paradise Complex to see what's left from the gay area. In one street good old Zag Club is still there, even bigger than before. Next to it is G Club. Both have drag shows that you can watch while sitting on their terraces. As they do the show on the street. Zag later continues their show inside. It was very busy at Zag. Between their shows the crowd in dancing and flirting. With some shirtless staff joining in. Crowd is a good mix of falang, Asian, young and older. Everybody enjoying themself and each other... Very good and nice atmosphere. 
    There are two other smaller bars in the street but they actually didn't have any customers when I passed by. The good old boat bar went bankrupt and is gone. There used to be also two go go bars in Paradise, with boys wearing numbered tags that could be offed. But they also didn't surivive covid lockdowns. 
    The owner of Zag Club bought most of the buildings on the street. To avoid any competition coming in. Some of the buildings he is owning are already empty for many years. They are up for sale, but apparently he doesn't want to sell to anybody planning to start a bar or club. 
    Other bars, like G Club, are struggling a bit. For example: Zag is suppose to do their street show until 10pm after which G Club can start theirs, to try to get also some customers in. But Zag just continues their street show till way after 10pm, giving G Club less fair chance to take some business. The bars are next to each other, so they can't do street show at same time because music will reverberate disturbingly. 
    Because of the dominant presence of Zag, that club was full of people while G club only had handful customers on the terrace. If you're coming to Phuket I would suggest to also support the business in G Club a bit and don't forgot to also sit down at their terrace for a drink. If only for the cute and young owner / manager. Their streetshow will start as soon as Zag take theirs inside. 
    In the road parallel of the bar street, there are a few gay massage places. Will check them out later. 
    With no go go bars being re-opened (yet), to get some fun in Phuket you have to scroll the apps, venture to the massage shops or just flirt with boys you like in the nightlife. 
    There are a few massage places catering for us kind of people in the Paradise Complex. Most of them situated in the middle Soi. The one directly in front of the hotel tower. 
    The most boys and greatest variation of types I found on offer at 4 Massage. Also Blue Dolphin has his fare share of boys. But don't forget to check out the massage shops with smaller amount of boys. As there can be a stunner also. I found for example a very goodlooking boy at  Sabai Sabai. 
    I'm told that they still have gogo boys at Spartacus(in Paradise), might be worth keeping your eye open for them.
    I couldn't find Spartacus. Google made me believe Spartacus was in the beginning of the Soi where Zag club is. But nothing open there. The first open establishment on the left side when you enter is Zag. On the right side there's another bar but is seems to be a normal bar. No gogo boys or anything exciting... So maybe they moved to another place that is unfindable, or your information is unfortunately not up to date.. 
  13. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to bkkmfj2648 in Phuket trip spring 2023   
    Hello foresttrip.
    Since your original objective was to meet cute twinks and see beautiful beaches in Phuket - and now you are leaning more towards going to Pattaya - please read my trip report (see below hyperlink) from November where I visited beautiful Koh Larn - the island that is directly in front of Pattaya city - which is only a 20 minute speed boat away or 40 minute ferry ride.  The beaches on Koh Larn are beautiful - but not as beautiful as in Phuket.  However, Koh Larn has transparent turquoise blue water with wonderful white sand beaches.
    my recent report on Koh Larn - the island that is directly in front of Pattaya
    If during your visit to Pattaya you want to make a day trip or overnight trip over to Koh Larn - let me know as I am itching to return to Koh Larn.
  14. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to Jimbillp in Back in Thailand from Laos - November 2022 trip report   
    It is funny coincidence that your last night included A and the pinoy boy as I enjoyed their company last night.  Of course we remembered Vinapu as I had previously met A at the top of the big tower with you.  Perhaps knowing you are honorary patron of Thai happy bar restaurant A marched us there and ordered most of the seafood menu before I’d barely sat down! Then the host Joy declared her undying love for V by ordering a Singha on my tab and saying ‘on you’. Haha. All in great spirits.
    A is actually very kind guy as he had taken the young non Thai speaking Pinoy under his wing.  I do recommend people visiting Moonlight to look for the Filipino. His English is excellent and he has super energy and personality.
    I thought Moonlight show very samey and not enough spice.  For a long time my fav bar but losing allure. Although to counter that I found two great guys in the line up.
  15. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in Back in Thailand from Laos - November 2022 trip report   
    Day 4
     That’s my last day, time for charity so after morning gymnastics and breakfast at Unesco I told my companion that today I won’t have much time for him  so he needs to fend for himself or he can return to Pattaya tipped for both yesterday and today. He liked second option so after bit more   fun together  he packed and left smiling. When crossing Suriwong he actually turned back to see if I’m in window and waved at me before I lost his sight.
    It was a little bit of adventure with him but at end of day we parted ways happy and I’m glad that both my friend 18past19 and me were able to help him in what it seemed like his hour of need.  Hope he will do well and I can see him in future. I had more rewarding offs but no boy ever stroke me with his good  looks like he did when I saw him first time few years ago. Now I feel we are even.
     At noon ChristianPFC dropped by, we went to Foodland for a lunch and then upon learning he is going to Mor Chit bus station to buy ticket for his incoming trip I decided to go with him since , hard to believe , I never been there.
    For more fun we took bus 77 from Silom and it took about 40 minutes to get there. Bus station impressed me with size, simply saying it’s just cavernous. We returned the same way . In meantime I arranged with former model X to see me this afternoon and indeed upon saying good bye to Christian and arriving in hotel, he was already waiting for me in the lobby.  Good 3 hours of fun , he never disappoints and I like way he is reading me i.e. what I like and when. If you add hunky,  muscular body I can say there’s only one other guy who is perfectly blending being muscle god with perfect service  and he will be my guest tonight.
     Since I was planning dinner with anddy at G’Bangkok I invited X to tag along securing earlier both gentleman’s approval which was easy since we had dinners together before. Great evening and great food. Later on X left us, anddy and I went to Hot Male beer bar to have last / for me / chat with paulsf and reader as well as their boys. Tomorrow morning   I’m out. At 10   waved good bye to everybody and went to Moonlight for the show. A was absent but  mamasan was aware about  our agreement last night and greeted me with news ‘ I will call him over “. In meantime I invited Sam , guy I offed LT from New Twilight in May and who joined me and other member for trip to Grand Palace next day  to have  a drink with me. He was disappointed  when I told him I’m busy tonight and leave for good tomorrow. Who would not be , seeing ATM shaped as KFC man departing ? I tipped new guy on the stage who shortly came to say thank you , we had a chat as well, turned out he is Pinoy, first Filippino guy I met in Thai bar as stage boy. Very talkative so hope he will be there next time I'm. 
    When A showed up suggested some dinner at Unesco which he named Foodland so off we went , I just had crème Brulé still being full after G’Bangkok.
     We had fun till 3 am including our customary show of force which I always loose, no chance with such muscled guy  but always surprise him that is not that easy to fight old guy.  He was gone , I quickly packed little I had and started trek home. Friendly receptionist offered he will stop taxi for me and indeed one just showed up visibly being parked in hotel’s parking. It was not long trip as driver  suggested 500 fare , when I pointed at meter he said “no’ countered with mine “  stop”  , right in front of Raya. 90 second later another taxi showed up , this time no problem. In airport it was smooth and soon I was in the air, leaving Thailand for 25th time ending month long trip taking 3 countries and including 3 visits in Thailand. It was good idea to spent relatively busy and certainly sleepless  good part of night with A as I felt bit tired and actually had some  sleep on the plane, rare feast for me. It was also first time ever I flew JAL and must say their excellent reputation is fully deserved.
    Summary of the trip  will come tomorrow
  16. Thanks
    BL8gPt reacted to khaolakguy in access to hotel swimming pool   
    I did some research for this scenario earlier in the year. This seemed a helpful website, although others may have more personal experiences. There used to be a gym on Thaniya with a pool for which you could pay for daily access. However I believe that may no longer be possible.
  17. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to jason1975 in Christmas in Bangkok (Dec 2022)   
    Saturday I was resting in hotel room. I felt better at night so I went to Dreamboys for the show but with mask on. I only removed my mask when I sipped my orange juice. No beer because I was taking medication. Dreamboys is the only bar which I have not visited during this trip. I visited Dreamboys at its previous location next door in June. I have fond memories of Dreamboys current premises. It used to be Lucky Boys pre-Covid and I had offed many guys from there. I was seated alone at the left side and in front row so I could see the guys on stage as well as the audience. All the seats were occupied by the time the show started at 10.30pm but people were not squeezed in together (like in Moonlight) so there was still ample seating available. I reckon 75% capacity. VIP circular seats were filled by regular customers with bottle service and guys entertaining them. Many tourists especially couples (both gay and straight) on Christmas Eve. I even saw an Asian gentleman directly opposite me. He had two companions - twinks and I believe they are waiters from Freshboys! He ordered a bottle of whisky for himself and his clingy twinky companions. During the show, he tipped his favourite performers with 100 baht and a shot glass of whisky which his companions helped pour on his behalf and offer to performers. Many many guys on stage in white shorts. Between 30 to 40 but I would not be offing any. I don't want to get anyone infected and falling sick on my account and hence not being able to work next day and losing income etc. Mixed group of guys. There are about 5 of them I would have offed. Show started at 10.30pm with coyote dancing. 9 guys dancing in rotation with tempo getting faster and music getting louder. Fabulous start but things went downhill after that with ladyboy diva singing and not-very-erotic big-cock shows. There was the moustache guy in spandex and heels that I had read about in a forum member's report. Interesting performance but not my cup of tea. The performances went smoothly without much of a wait-time in between (unlike Jupiter and Moonlight). Show was 40 minutes long and ended at 11.20pm and all the guys came up on stage again. Our esteemed forum member Vinapu had asked me to look out for a particular guy and I asked mamasan but he said no such person. I left after show ended. As I walked out, I saw some Dreamboys customers making their way to Hotmale or Freshboys to catch their 2nd shows. I said hi to the Hotmale beer bar 1st floor waiters and explained why I had not been there on Thursday and Friday nights. "OMG. Are you feeling better now?" one of them asked me. Yes, definitely, but no beer. And with that, I made my way back to hotel room, a Christmas Eve to forget.
  18. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to reader in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    I believe your number for Freshboys is quite low, although probably about right for Hot Male show bar (some nights the HM beer bar below has more 🙂)
    As for massage shops in Silom-Surawong, I think your way on the low side. On Silom Soi 6 alone you can find 70+ guys working in the six shops on any given day. Being friendly with a handful of them, each guy averages at least a few customers per day and sometimes 3-4 in high season. Add to that all the other shops in the area and you're easily in the 250-300 zone.
    Speaking from my not inconsiderable contribution to the effort, I agree that locals make up the bulk of the customer base in Saphan Kwai but I don't see how that reflects on the go-go bar business. Two different types of business. Many guys patronize both.
  19. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to macaroni21 in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    Gogo bars - I think in total 50 - 60 offs per night in high season. How do I get this estimate? In the bigger bars (Dream Boy, Jupiter, Moonlight) about 10 boys per night. If we watch the room carefully, we may see about 3 boys taken out each hour (4, at a stretch). Multiply this by 3 hours (10pm to 1 am) and we get 9 - 12 offs. I round it off to 10.
    Smaller bars (Fresh, Hotmale, Banana) I think 5 offs a night. 
    I haven't sat long enough in Tawan to estimate whether it's more like a bigger bar or a smaller one.
    Add them all up and we get 50 - 60 offs a night from all the gogo bars.
    Massage parlours - difficult to estimate since we seldom see other customers around when we visit. However, the fact that we seldom see other customers can also mean that there are not that many. When I ask around, however, I do find that visitors to Thailand buy from massage parlours at least as often as from gogo bars. So, if I really have to hazard a (wild) guess, I'd say 80 - 100 massage bookings a day from tourists. 
    When I do see other customers in massage parlours, they are more often than not a local Thai. This is also noteworthy. The parlours continue to get custom from locals whereas the gogo bars (in Bangkok, at least) have lost all their local customers. In fact, outside of the Silom Road and Surawong Road cluster, I think the majority of massage customers e.g. in Saphan Khwai or Plukjit are local. I say this is interesting because it shows how bad the gogo bars are that they can lose a whole section of the market.
    Apps? - even more difficult to estimate, but just about everyone I know tells me it's more trouble than they are worth, in a country with an unfamiliar language.
  20. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to 10tazione in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    Interesting calculations!
    I have 2 points where i struggle a bit.
    "this means that on any given day there are 9 x 740 = 6,660 gay male tourists in Thailand"
    "They are not all in Bangkok. Let’s say half of them are outside Bangkok, and half in the capital city. That means 3,330 gay male tourists in Bangkok on a typical day."
    Do people really spend 50% of their Th. holiday in BKK? Hard to believe for me, but maybe there is some data?
    The other point is
    "I shall be conservative and assume only 20% of gay male tourists are interested in buying sex. That still means there are about 660 gay male tourists in Bangkok on a typical day who are open to the possibility of buying sex."
    20% really? Interested maybe, but doing it? Many too proud or too sticky to do it. And if they do, maybe they are not interested every day they are in Bkk but only once?
    What do others think?
  21. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to macaroni21 in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    @10tazione I am glad you're taking up the challenge to think through these issues. Indeed my numbers are basically back-of-the-envelope estimates, so they are certainly open to debate. On the two questions you had:
    1.  I believe you're saying my estimate that tourists spend about half their days in Bangkok and half outside Bangkok, is too generous to Bangkok. I tried looking for data as to room nights in Bangkok versus room nights outside Bangkok but couldn't find them. In any case, I wasn't sure they'd be any good even if I did find them, because room nights data would almost surely include domestic tourists, rendering the numbers pretty useless when we're talking about foreign tourists.
    However, it is useful to imagine how a typical tourist who spends typically nine days in Thailand would divide his time. It's quite easy to imagine him spending a few days outside Bangkok e.g. Chiangmai or Pattaya in the middle of his holiday, but spends the first few nights and the last few nights in Bangkok, for convenience vis-a-vis Suvarnabhumi airport.
    I accept that there are tourists who fly directly to Chiangmai or Phuket and spend their whole vacation in the respective regions, but the Chiangmai numbers are small, the the Phuket numbers strongly seasonal. Counterbalancing that, there are plenty of business visitors who spend all their days in Bangkok and never leave the city. On balance I came to the estimate that about half the room nights of foreign visitors are probably spent in Bangkok.
    If you're a white farang, you need to resist the tendency to imagine the "typical tourist" as someone like you. The simple fact is that the majority of tourists coming to Thailand are Asian. They make relatively short trips of a week or slightly more and their interests centre around food, entertainment and shopping.
    2. I believe you're saying that the rough figure of 20% of gay male tourists in Bangkok who are open to buying sex is too high an estimate. What do you think the percentage is likely to be? Note: I say "open to buying sex", not "actually buying sex." In fact, I emphasised in my blogpost that many of them are still not buying (my casual observation). Thus the point in my post - that the bars are not maximising their potential.
    There is discussion above about gay visitors in the closet, or too proud to buy. I have allowed for this - they're among the 80 percent who I reckon are not open to buying sex. Is 80 percent still too little? Do we think that maybe 90 or 95% are not at all open to the possibility of buying sex?
    You raised a good point about whether even if one were open to buying sex, would one be open to buying every day that one is in Bangkok? Some will be, some will not. I used to be somewhat like Vinapu twenty years ago when Thailand and Bangkok were new, bright, alluring and addictive. My daily rhythm was massage in the daytime (with sex), then off a bar boy in the evening, so twice a day. I was super-horny. In building my estimates, I assumed that the super-horny and the not-so-horny will probably balance each other out to average about 0.5 to 1 sex session per gay male tourist (who is open to buying) per day. 
    So, if there is a potential market of 660 gay men in Bangkok open to buying sex, but they only buy 0.5 times a day there should still be 330 sex purchases a day (apps, massages and gogo bars combined). My observation is that the actual number of sex purchases by tourists is significantly lower than that.
    Thus the point of my post: In the sex business, there is quite a bit of upside potential among the tourists who are already in Thailand, but the potential is not properly exploited by the businesses. The question is: what's putting these tourists off?
  22. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    it may be something in what you say, it's why I always say let the owners run the business and let the boys to decide what is economically beneficial to them.
    I'm personally not worried about those calculations as I have mine - all I need is one bar open and one boy I like inside of that bar.
  23. Like
    BL8gPt reacted to bkkmfj2648 in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    This statement is SO true.  I was formerly one of those "too proud" to consider the idea of paying for an off.  It was thanks to this forum in my early years here that I realized that I could maximize my sexual pleasure by paying for the experience - as I discovered that by being the consumer / buyer of said services - that I could construct the menu and program of what I wanted to do with my offs.  This is SO much more harder when you are chasing free guys - to get your menus and program desires to match up.  Once I discovered the joy of having what I want - almost always - I never turned back to being "too proud".  And when I hear of proud non-paying guys bitch and complain that they are not getting what they want - I suggest that they get over the embarrassment of paying for it to almost immediately find what they are looking for, where they waste much less time and effort of the endless hunting for unsatisfactory sex.
  24. Thanks
    BL8gPt reacted to vinapu in Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?   
    Our poster macaroni21 recently published 2 excellent reports / analysis of bars in question plus Jupiter in his blog.
    Take my advice and rush to read it
    Three gogo bars in December 2022: their shows – ShamelessMack2 (travel.blog)
  25. Sad
    BL8gPt reacted to reader in Thai navy vessel with crew of 106 sinks in rough seas in Gulf of Thailand   
    From Thai PBS World
    Six more bodies found floating in Gulf of Thailand
    The team searching for crew, missing from the sunken HTMS Sukhothai, found six more bodies drifting at sea off the Bang Saphan district of Prachuap Khiri Khan today (Saturday), reducing those still unaccounted for to 16, according to the Royal Thai Navy.
    The remains were recovered by naval vessels and taken ashore for identification by forensic science officials, he said.
    Six bodies have, so far, been confirmed as members of the crew of the ill-fated HTMS Sukhothai and seven other bodies, including one which was discovered at sea yesterday evening, are in the process of being identified, which will take 3-4 days.
    RTN Spokesman Admiral Monthatphalin said that 76 crew members have been rescued, out of a ship’s compliment of 105.
    He said that divers from HTMS Kraburi have been sent to search for missing crew, who might be trapped inside the sunken ship, and to survey the vessel ahead of a salvage operation adding, however, that strong undersea currents are hampering dive operations.
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