flashbarryallen

One more thing. Grooming matters. While kissing is a huge variable for many of the guys, it's much easier to make happen if you have fresh breath. Many of these guys have very smooth skin that is easily irritated, so make sure you're clean shaven. Even a little bit of five o clock shadow can make these guys uncomfortable. This is especially important if you're into rimming. Btw, good way to explain rimming is with these emojis: 🖐️😛🤚 They'll typically know what you mean (not even joking.)

One small thing that no one has said yet. If you take a guy back to your room, be mindful of your belongings. I have never had a bad experience, but I'm the paranoid type that keeps things like my iPad and laptop in the safe and will even bring my wallet into the bathroom with me if I'm showering alone (god forbid.) This should also apply while sleeping. Leave your wallet and any other belongings in the safe if you're bringing a guy back for long term. Speaking of long term, it helps to clarify what that means (learned this from @vinapu.) Don't be shy to say that long term means sex in the morning too and going to breakfast with you if that's what you want. Always get clear on operational definitions. If you're meeting guys from Grindr, be very clear about your preferences for chem/drug sex. I'm vehemently against it, and the worst experience I ever had was a guy smoking some sort of drug in my room and offering me a "candy" (which thankfully I was wise enough in the moment to know was probably laced with something and said no.) Anything drug related is my worst nightmare. Hmmm..there will be times you will be disappointed unfortunately. My very first off was a disappointment in bed, though we had been talking for hours beforehand and it was early hours, so I forgave him and now he's a legitimate friend of mine who I adore. There are so many variables that can affect performance, and you have to find the right balance between being a compassionate human versus a paying customer when a guy is unable to perform. I'll admit I'm a bit of a pushover. My last Bangkok trip, one guy tried his hardest to perform, but just couldn't. I still paid him because he really was trying his best. In the end, I think he had a drug problem, and he died like two months after I met him. 😭 Remember, this is just fantasy for the most part. While there are stories of falling in love, it's not the norm. Guys will tell you they love you and will ask you for cash because of any number of reasons either real or made up. You have to live in the fantasy and enjoy it (don't always be stoic), but then be able to snap back to reality. Don't be so moved by the barrage of messages and cute emojis you receive. It's mainly all business to them and it's not worth it to get lost in the What Ifs?? Everyone has different styles. Some like to get in (or never even go to the bar at all) and get out. Others like to buy a bottle, enjoy the night, do a chemistry test with the guys along with stolen touches and flirting. I suggest you do both if budget allows. Some guys can only keep up the charade of showing interest for a little bit, and others know how to keep it going and charm you. This could be a good test of what bedroom experience will be like. I Am sure I could write more, but I'll end with saying don't forget the small things. If you go to Moonlight, chat with Paul. He's a genuinely great guy and fun conversationalist. Sit at HotMale beer bar and don't be afraid to engage the cute bartenders in conversation. It's so easy to focus on the sex, but some of my most memorable moments have been with the colorful people (the owner at Gs Bangkok also a good example) that make the city special and like a second home for many of us.

As a bar, I can definitely say I despise it, especially the new system of not having guys stand with numbers for extended periods of time. Those moments of imagining each one and what the night may turn out to be are glorious. Jupiter ripped that away with the awful only walk a couple of times system. Vile. It's just when I get fixated on one person, it causes all good sense to go out the window 😉.

I have reached the 10 day until departure mark, which brings on the deluge of fantasies. Well, there is one guy I’ve seen in Jupiter’s videos that I’ve been thinking about for a few months. However, I’m well aware of Jupiter’s reputation, though I also know complaints are often louder than satisfaction. So, I guess I want to know if the reputation at Jupiter is as bad as it has become. Have you risked it with a Jupiter guy and walked away satisfied? I would love to know.

During my trip to BKK in June/July, I went to a host bar called Changsha Chill. I threw a private party with a bunch of guys there. The owner was nice enough to have one of the guys pick me up from my hotel. Granted he was late, but he was handsome and charming, so I didn't let it bother me too much. At the party, he was having a good time as we all were, though some of the guys felt a bit awkward being in their underwear, including the driver guy. Thankfully alcohol made everyone a lot more comfortable as the night went on. The next day, I reached out to the guy who picked me up and asked if he would be up for meeting at my hotel. I had actually read about him in this forum and wanted to experience what I read for myself. When he arrived, the best way I could describe him was tweaked out, as if he had been using drugs. I'm not around people who use drugs much, so I couldn't tell for sure, but I knew something wasn't right with the guy. It could also have just been intense nervous energy. Unfortunately the encounter didn't go great, but he was kind the whole time and I honestly just liked his company as he had lived in Australia and had a high level of English. I never talked to him after the encounter. Fast forward to just a few minutes ago, and I found out on the bar's Twitter that he has passed away. I don't know why I feel so sad about it because I know he wasn't a good friend of mine or anything, but I thought I could at least share here in case anyone has ever experienced something like this. I don't really have anyone IRL that I could talk to about this. I wish I would have given him a big hug when he left my hotel that day or that we had just talked more.

Tawan will do this as well. @jason1975and I did this plenty during the jockstrap jubilee.

This definitely did happen for all guys wearing jockstraps. It's like a reflex now. Pull a strap, add some baht, release, smack, and repeat.

I went to Bangkok the Christmas before COVID kicked into full gear...back when we thought it was just this thing that would stay in China. Ahh those blissfully ignorant days. I expect crowds and flight/hotel prices to be at an all time high, so it's going to be a skip for me. My partner and I both celebrate Christmas and we'll probably just stay at home and have a party with our friends. I might cross the border to Singapore to check out some of the Christmas offerings at Universal Studios and Gardens by the Bay. I went way over budget on my summer escapades in Bangkok and Pattaya, so any travel will have to be more wallet friendly. If I really am craving some "fun", I might just do a short trip to KL as there are quite a few freelancers working the apps there.

I would probably just leave...that is definitely triggering for my, what some would call, social anxiety. However, it could be the wrong terminology as it's just not a situation I want to be in because I don't like crowds in general. I wouldn't walk away though because of worrying about what others thought of me. I do this with all kinds of situations in life, especially crowded restaurants. If my social anxiety were a result of worrying about what others thought of me, I wouldn't have done half the things I did at the jockstrap party I sponsored at Tawan. Social anxiety manifests itself in different ways and for different reasons possibly. Your observations aren't wrong; it's just a nuanced and complex situation.

@vinapuSmiles at Jupiter and twinks at Tawan. Are these signs of end times??

@Tomm42From personal experience, I also can suggest Moonlight and Jupiter as warmup bars for just the experience of appreciating the eye candy and seeing shows if you need to dip your toe in before going straight to offing someone. I (and probably only me) find that I never feel the need to off someone at those bars. The fact that it's a place for me to just chill and build confidence is enough for me. You're definitely not going to get someone randomly sitting with you at those places. I go to those places just to admire and enjoy the shows, though less now because I'm more comfortable just to go for what I'm looking for, which is at Tawan most of the time. The only thing that I miss is that there seems to be less of a parade at Jupiter where guys are on stage for a long time before the show. Moonlight still does this though. My last trip, I got the impression that there's just a few times where a parade happens at Jupiter, and it's brief.

@Tomm42If you're into guys a bit older, then Tawan is definitely the best choice. I think the new smaller location does make it a bit more intimidating, but I like the fact that there are a few guys there who will just sit down with you. It's a good warmup to have someone to drink with and explore their muscles while you're building up courage (and most likely a hardon!) to go for the ones who really catch your eye. I haven't offed any of the guys who sat with me right away, but I did make sure to tip them for their service for making me more comfortable in the bar. These men have thick skins so don't feel obligated to off a guy who sits with you right away. If they get a small tip from you, then it's all good. If you feel intimidated about being seen in public with a sexy hulking man, I also suggest choosing a hotel close to Tawan (or wherever you choose.) I was a regular there on my last trip and I regret not being closer. While you can use a taxi to go to your hotel, there's something more relaxing about it just being a quick walk from the bar to your bedroom. If you really have anxiety about this, you can get their Line and maybe off them another night and have them come directly to your hotel. I found about 7 guys I wanted to off at Tawan and I got their Line contacts and arranged for some to come to my hotel directly rather than me having to make the trip from the bar with them. Only thing I don't love about Tawan is that people do expect tips for the smallest things such as bringing you a drink, which is something I never experienced in other bars.

Just to help clarify, I think a lot of the evidence you're using about people being on their phones and not socializing/talking could be more about signs of extroversion and introversion, even though you said it wasn't. You kind of mixed in some stuff that could be introvert/extrovert along with social anxiety. For example, my being on my phone and not mingling is my introversion. I rarely was on my phone when hanging out with @jason1975. However, when I walked in to Tawan, saw that it was busy and crowded, and walked out, THAT was my social anxiety. I just immediately felt uncomfortable and didn't want to sit at a table with a stranger. If you have fear of walking through the Complex, then yes that is social anxiety as well. Even then, there are other factors. If someone walks into a crowded bar and walks out, that's not necessarily social anxiety. That could just be preferring a more quiet place to have a meaningful conversation. It could also be they had a quick glance at the guys and decided quickly that none were their type or that someone was already sitting with the guy they were intending to off.

I experience this, but it's more because I'm not so much of a people person anymore. I've turned my social anxiety into something that just makes me me and I'm okay with it. Many times, I'm content to just spend time by myself where I don't have to worry about participating in conversations I'm not interested in, but still feel like I have to fake interest out of good etiquette. I'm content to sit at a bar and be on my phone because I can read content that's interesting to me rather than be in a tiresome conversation. I also think a lot of people are on their phone because they're on the apps checking out who's around them. However, I don't mind being social if it's with someone I make a good connection with. For example, I immediately hit it off with @jason1975on my last trip and we spent much longer hanging out than either of us expected. It helped that he had been writing a trip report and I knew he lived close to me, so I knew we would have things in common. Sharing the same orientation doesn't automatically make someone into a good conversation partner, which is what I'm looking for when I'm social. AIl that being said, yes, I do feel uncomfortable walking into a group of unknown people, but I hate groups in general as I prefer one on one. The worst is that I also hate being the only customer in a bar where all eyes are on me. Is it social anxiety? Yes. Do I think it's an illness? For me, no. It's just how I'm built and it's worked for me. In the end, I don't care what some random farang thinks about me because I don't have some deep craving for social engagement. I have enough forced socialization at my job that I appreciate being able to just be me when I travel. If I were an expat, that might be different, but I would rather make expat friends through connections of close friends rather than random people in a bar who only share the same orientation as I do. This is how I've made friends as an expat in multiple other countries, though lately my local friend group has become larger than my expat group.

Based off your description, I'm fairly certain I was also with 1 on my recent trip. I went into the encounter not expecting much as I agree about the general vibe of Tawan, but he ended up surprising me. As I am completely unsympathetic to my neighbors, I can get really loud if I'm enjoying myself, and he was definitely into that. What surprised me is that especially toward the end, it felt like a genuine hookup because I could tell he was enjoying himself. I don't think it was anything special about me, though. I think he loves getting applause and cheers, and moaning in bed is the equivalent I guess. Since he felt like was doing a good job and his work was being appreciated, he totally let loose. We both couldn't stop smiling and laughing after. Definitely my best bottoming experience on my trip. Your point about "having a little gay in them" is so true and I have the feeling he certainly does. Thanks for sharing.

Those are just the dancers. The actual boys available for offing are more next door mid-twink types.

I think maybe some are, but not all. When I was at Boyz Boyz Boyz in Pattaya, I distinctly remember seeing a sign that said "Not all boys are available for prostitution" or something similar.

@kjun12 Yes there are stairs you must climb once you get to the reception/lobby area at Arena.

It's on the same Soi as Classroom Bar/Hotel and A Bomb. It's right before the entrance to Boyztown on that Soi. My experience was that I was taken upstairs by the first person who greeted me, though I didn't actually choose that person. Before I went upstairs, I saw a guy inside relaxing on the massage chairs downstairs and I wanted him instead. I was surprised no one asked me who I wanted and how long/what type of massage I wanted. Thankfully, I was able to go downstairs to choose the guy I liked. Actual massage experience and extras were enjoyable. More than anything, my masseur was talkative, but not too much, had good technique, and was just an overall charming and handsome guy.

@MinDefinitely not in Arena. At Sabaidee, there were 6 guys and none of them met that description. However, if you book through Line, I think they have some guys they can call in.

@sydneyboy1I think my most sensual and fun experience was at Sabaidee Spa. As far as the building, there had recently been a fire in the area that did have some impact on Sabaidee, but they tried their best to explain and were very apologetic. It wasn't too bad, but because of the room they put me in, I had to shower in a different room. When I first got there, they offered me a seat and a manager had all the guys line up and gave a brief spiel about each. That was perfect for a shy guy like me who is sometimes afraid to ask those questions. The masseur I chose was fun. First of all, he is one of those guys who is a bit older, but when you see his face in good lighting, you can see he's still a very manly handsome. He was talkative and flirtatious, but in the way where you can tell he's done it hundreds of times. If you prefer a quiet massage, I wouldn't suggest him. He was fair game for anything when it came to extras and everything was done with a smile and a laugh. The only downside is that despite giving a generous tip at the end, he did make one comment to try and extract more, but when I defected, he handled it like a pro. The only other experience I had was in Pattaya at Paradise Spa. I'm torn between my experience at Sabaidee vs Paradise as to which was the best. I went to Arena often because I liked the guy I chose and his HE was creative and fun without the stress of actual penetration.

From a couple of weeks ago, I think the maximum amount of guys I ever saw there in early and mid afternoon was 7. I ended up liking the technique of one guy and chose him 3/4 times that I went. On the other occasion, I chose a guy who had a handsome face and wonderful technique, but he was only willing to do the bare minimum for extras, so I wouldn't choose him again. Best is to not be too shy (which I am) and ask Art, the manager, about what each guy is willing to do etc so that you get the level of service you want. I wouldn't have had my "bad" experience if I had asked Art (but it wasn't a total waste as the guy's technique was great. He should just be working in a more 'legitimate' massage place.) The place as a whole is showing its age. Good thing is that the rooms have showers inside. It's all bare bones, but I actually like that. One other thing to mention is that if you're looking for bigger muscular guys, this isn't really what Arena is anymore. Let me know if you have more specific questions.

@z909You're definitely not the only one who feels this way. I saw other farang take a look in the bar and walk right back out with clear disappointment in their eyes. Paul told me that they will eventually be in shorts, but that will be too little too late I believe given the timeline you mentioned. Only thing that could possibly, though not guaranteed, save it is China miraculously letting a flood of tourists venture into Thailand. I forget who I heard this from but apparently Tawan's move to the smaller location is an attempt to cut back on costs until things pick up even more. The goal is to eventually get an upgraded space. I wouldn't be surprised, though I know you'd be disappointed, if Tawan eventually takes over the New Twilight space. The reality is they have something special that people (but I know not you) will seek out no matter the location. Then again, I actually like the more intimate Tawan location now.

@MinI can tell you must be an excellent conversationalist as you always seem to get such interesting insider information. Kiwi seems like such a treasure and I'm sad to hear he has had such negative experiences. I don't think I'm a people pleaser, but in all encounters, especially paid, I constantly feel like I'm asking "Is this okay?" just to make sure that whoever I'm with feels respected. I could never do the type of work they do, not because I disrespect it, but I just could not handle the tricky and difficult situations many of them will experience. From your post, I think many people will be reaching out to contact Kiwi. He certainly sounds like someone I would love to meet. If you want to meet a similar guy who is very open and talkative, I suggest Suwit at Paradise Spa in Boyztown. @vinapuhas mentioned him several times in trip reports, and I can say that my massage with him was the best part of my Pattaya trip. He has an interesting story that I won't spoil for you.

@z909New Twilight tried the model thing in the beginning, but they have now moved away from that. The captain Paul informed me of that. I would describe the boys on offer here as next door types. Other than Lucky, one of the dancers, I would hesitate to use the word muscular to describe the guys here, with the performers being more on the toned/swimmer build type rather than muscular. Upon entering before a show, boys are in street clothes. You don't see them without shirts until after the show. If you want a better understanding of what guys here look like, take a look at the pictures from Buzz Host Bar on Facebook. I would also describe the guys who work there as next door types.