Min

I’m sorry but Thailand has temples?😮😮😮

It's usually 100B for both Bangkok and Pattaya bars, as I was told by various boys from different bars. I even saw a boy from Luck Boys gave mamasan 100B right before he left the bar with me and of course before he received any money from me. I was also told that some boys tried to one-up others by giving mamasan more (like 200B) so the latter would play favorite and push him harder to potential customers.

It's hard to say as I usually got this through (google) translation and I also never heard of it before Covid. It seems Pikky and Divarium's owners attempt to enforce a minimum tip level (1500) to make sure their boys are not underpaid. In other words, their boys should not go with customers that offer less than 1500B for short time.

You whoring up everything  in sight 😗

Because "face" is not a zero-sum game, and calling someone out is not a winning strategy in Thai culture.  If you make someone lose face, you are inviting trouble. You are also perceived to lose face on your own account because of your inappropriate (as they see it) behaviour. Moreover, if you make a scene, that embarrasses the onlookers and can make them lose face too.
On the other hand by discreetly signalling that you have already heard all the BS (true or not) you enable everyone to save face.
 

(part 13) The story of 2 unfriendly boyfriends
It was a rainy night in Jomtien Complex. Rain wasn't heavy but non-stop for hours. Most bars in the soi were empty. Many boys didn't bother showing up for work and pickings were slim.
Wet and cool weather put me in the mood for a massage, so I put up my umbrella and checked out the nearby places. I saw no one at Soda but there were 2 boys standing in front of No. 1 Massage, both of whom I never saw before. Both are cute in different ways.
The shorter one was medium-built with a cute face and poreless complexion. The taller one has a slim, taut body and big eyes. While I was approaching, Taller threw a cold glance in my direction then walked away. Not a friendly way of greeting potential customers. Shorter stayed put but didn't look any friendlier, avoiding eye contact as much as he could. 
Normally, I would give it a pass and look somewhere else as friendliness rates very high in my book. But the rain didn't give me much choice and boy was my type. So I stopped and said hello. Fortunately, Shorter's English is quite good (would be hard to try Google translation outdoor in that weather) and he himself was talkative.
His name is S, 25 years old, from somewhere near Bangkok. Today was his first day working in No. 1 Massage but no customers because of the weather.
"How much do you want for a massage with happy ending?" "1200, but no sex" 
What, do we have other kinds of happy ending that do not involve sex? 
Turned out by "sex" he meant anal f*cking. He can kiss, suck and chuckwow. That worked for me. So I asked him to go with me to my hotel. 
"No, I only do it in the shop. I don't go customer's place."
It was only around 11pm something but his shop already closed due to lack of business. It looked like we can't do it that night.
"How about the other boy? The one who was with you just before now. Does he go to customer's place?" 
"He's my boyfriend and he's same same. No go outside" 
Interesting, what he just said reminds me of Boy No 6 and his boyfriend (reported in parts 8 and 10) who have been working in the same go-go bar in Bangkok and who doesn't mind the other going with customers.
Anyway, that doesn't solve the problem at hand. 
"Look, my hotel is right there" I point in the direction of Agate, which is literally 20 meters from where we was standing. "You have nothing to be afraid of." 
S looked unsure. I think he really could use a customer that rainy night but the idea of venturing outside the safety of his shop somehow scared him. So we stood there for ten more minutes in the rain while S debated the pros and cons.
He talked to another co-worker in Thai, then made a call to (later he told me) his boyfriend. Finally, he said "Ok, I can go. But promise me you don't try to fuck me in the room."
Do I look like that desperate rapist, who wouldn't even spare a goat???
Inside my room, things got much better as I usually have a way of putting people at ease and and making them open up. S started working on my legs and back, while telling me about his relationship.
His boyfriend is 3 years younger than him at 22, and they've been together for nearly 5 years. Impressive. It looks like their relationship is going strong (No 26 and his boyfriend been together for only about 6 months). That long time also means it's easier for them to handle a sexually open relationship. 
S has been doing massage job for almost 2 years. He and his boyfriend made a deal: they can do almost everything with customers but no fucking either way. S is bottom and his boyfriend (who started the relationship with S when he was barely 18) is the only one who can f*ck him.
That's why he didn't do out-call lest a customer force him to do something he's not willing to. 
"Then why you go with me?" 
"Because you don't look like a bad person" (by "bad" I think he meant "goat rapist") 
"and farang customers are big" 
I think I can connect the dots. I have the same body type as his boyfriend, smaller than his so he thinks he could handle me if things go rough  
Still, when S jumped on top of me for the after-massage part, he checked again "Promise you won't try to fuck me" Something must have happened in his "massage career" for him to be that careful.
I just rolled my eyes. What could I do? He was even on top of me. Unless he tries to sit on my flag...
Anyway, S kept his end of the deal. He did everything else, vigorously. Sucking, kissing (very much into kissing), jerking off (he came all over my body) and more importantly, he did it with feeling. I feel we really connected that night. I also kept my end of the deal of doing nothing around his bottom area although my other end kinda hoped that S would sit on it.
It was just an okay massage but with a very happy ending. Later, we showered together and he touched the hickey he left near my collar bone, smiling and saying "Sorry". He could be sweet if he wants to.
"Don't worry, I won't show it to your boyfriend." 
Speaking of whom, I checked with S if I can also do his boyfriend. Actually I enquire if I can engage his boyfriend's professional service as a masseur at an appropriate time in the future. 
"Yes, but he is not friendly" When an unfriendly person claims that another person is not friendly, that's saying something, isn't it?
"Well, I can tell. Before he looked like he wanted to kill me." 
S laughed and gave me his boyfriend's contact. They share a rented room right there in Jomtien complex so they should be available anytime. 
Staying true to himself, S was back to being cold and distant the several times I walked by the massage shop in the next few days. I never saw him greet a customer, eyes always glued on his phone, avoiding all eye contact. He never noticed me if I didn't call out his name and when he did, didn't even acknowledge it with a smile. Does he really expect customers to pick him just based on cuteness?
Since then I was a bit worried about how things would go with S's even unfriendlier boyfriend. We made arrangements to meet at the hotel lobby a few nights later. Throughout the awkward silence of the ride up in the elevator, I kept thinking "Was it a mistake to do this?" 
Once in the room, he silently stripped down to his underwear and all my wistful thinking went out of the window. His body looked exactly my type (S was a bit too chubby for my taste but he had a cuter face to make up for it). So I decided I'm gonna just enjoy his massage and his body despite the apparent lack of connection.  
Then I noticed he fumbled around, trying to open a bottle of oil massage with slightly trembling hands. 
"Are you nervous?" 
"Yes, my first time in hotel. We don't go hotel before"
Then I remembered seeing his profile pictures wearing all Uniqlo clothes. 
"Do you like Uniqlo?" 
His face brightened at the mentioning of his favorite brand. "Yes, very much" 
"Me too. Big fan. Half of my clothes are Uniqlo"
I even got up, opened my suitcase and showed him my collection of Uniqlo apparel. Now he truly smiled. The ice was broken. 
Boyfriend of S's English wasn't as good as that of S, but he survived simple conversations. Again, we talked about his relationship. They met online in a game, got talking and fell in love after just one month, and been together since. They were both from poor families, so still have to support their parents back home. They shared all the money they made but didn't make quite enough so if S's mom gets the money this month, Boyfriend's mom would receive money the next.
Unlike S, Boyfriend kept his underwear on the whole time he was doing my back. When it was time for me to turn around, I felt he was warmed up enough so told him to take off his underwear. 
To my surprise, something already stood at attention, saluting me. I think I found the friendliest part of his body.
Understandably, things just got better, even better than with S, because Boyfriend was more of my type. Like S, he was also very much into kissing. His cock is shorter but much thicker than that of S - this couple really complement each other in many ways (except for the friendliness part). 
I think I know what you guys are now thinking. S would do a threesome, a four-hand massage with another boy but not with his boyfriend. Boyfriend wouldn't do any kind of threesome. I'm sure I want to do them both, but not at the same time. So we were all good.
Although Boyfriend remained very hard throughout, he couldn't cum because he already came earlier during the day with his boyfriend (I was his only customer of the day). After, we also showered together for an amount of time inordinate for a normal rinse-off. We kinda played in the shower. Every time I saw his cock starting to get soft, I gave it a nudge and it was instantly back to a greeting position. And its owner, the unfriendly, cold and distant Boyfriend of S, kept giggling at the exuberance and friendliness of his cock, showing no sign of wanting to get out of the shower.
Once we were done and said goodbye, Boyfriend gave me a hug (S gave me a hug and a lingering kiss on the lip so I think he still wins the friendliness competition), I gave his cock a final nudge and voilà - he left the room with a noticeable bulge in his loose pants. 
A minute later, Boyfriend sent me a smiling blushing emoticon through Line without any words. I checked if he was still hard. "Yes". I asked if he wanted me to come downstairs and make it bigger again. He replied with 5555. So much for being unfriendly huh.
(to be continued)

(part 7)
We stayed and danced a bit in Heart of Darkness until 12.30 am (they even played some Vietnamese pop music mixed with Khmer and Chinese songs). Then we tuk-tuked back to A&P.
I gave Guide his money plus 10% tip and he was on his way. Dancer looked surprised. He thought Guide was gonna stay with us. What  did he expect of three of us doing together anyway? Guide provides guidance on how the f*cking should go for the two remaining lads? It looked like some messages were lost in translation again.
Since Dancer looked a bit uncomfortable, I asked if he wanted to leave. No, he can stay.  
So my Phnom Peng's short trip ended on a good note. I'm so glad I reached out to Dancer. We had a good time (I gave him the same amount I gave the waiter boy 50$ for ST), his body is that of a dancer: very firm, virtually no excess fat, with the kind of lean muscles you normally don't get through gym training (he told me he doesn't go to gym, just dance training and performance). His ties to Vietnam are fairly strong too. He had stayed in a relationship with a Vietnamese guy who went to Cambodia to work for almost 4 years then the latter broke up with him and came back to Vietnam to get married. Sad but pretty common (sometimes even expected) endings for gay couples in Vietnam.
Dancer said he noticed me when we were in POC that night. He asked Guide where I am from and Guide, obviously lying through his teeth, told Dancer he doesn't know (can't figure out why he lied anyway). So "I feel so good when I found out you are from Vietnam too," Dancer later told me.
There was something else. Guide told me Dancer worked in Toolbox way longer than he did so the former must be so used to taking customers, but Dancer told me no way, he was there to dance only because he was in an exclusive relationship with his Viet boyfriend at the time. I asked Guide if he actually saw Dancer going with customers back in Toolbox, he said no, "But I know everything. I used to work in the bar so I know about the situation." Well, the usual "he said, he said" case so I don't know who to believe, not that it matters anyway.
Dancer gave me a piece of intel: he is going to move to Thailand to work as a dancer in a new gay bar his former boss, Toolbox's owner, plans to open in Boyztown, Pattaya and it may happen as soon as this coming July. So guys, brace yourself  
The only note of regret is that I didn't have a chance to check out outdoor cruising venues (if any) as ChristianPFC reported some interesting encounter he had in Wat Botum park. Guide told me he's not aware of any such places in Phnom Peng, but now I've learned enough to NOT trust Guide's sources.
Speaking of outdoor cruising venues, there are quite a few place in both HCM City and Hanoi frequented by local gays and MBs as well, especially around certain public parks and suspended construction sites. 20 years ago, it was the only way for us to find MBs (now it's still there but on a more limited scale because of the apps).
There are currently 2 parks in Hanoi: Thong Nhat park and Hoa Binh park, the former located near the city center and much more accessible to foreigners. But I don't think first-time visitors (local or foreigner) should venture out there on your own without a local friend to "chaperone".
FYI: the on-going rate in these parks could be as low as 2 USD for an on-site bj, 5 USD for ST and 10 USD for LT (for comparisons, I already gave the apps rate in part 5). Boys are mostly straight, in their teens and early twenties, fresh from rural provinces, trying to make it in a big city.
Actually, since a picture's worth a thousand words, here are some taken in Thong Nhat park just a couple of weeks ago. All four boys in the pictures are MBs.


There are so many funny anecdotal stories about MBs and their customers in these parks.
An MB boy told me this: a middle-aged customer picked him up from Thong Nhat park and they went to a short-time hotel nearby by customer's motorbike. Boy was the driver, and Customer snuggled right behind him, hugging him tight, touching his genitals while they were on the way. Customer came before they even reached the hotel. So Boy just collected his fee and was on his way while Customer used the hotel to wash himself.
In another case, a pimp brought a new MB from the park to meet a customer located quite far away, also by motorbike (pimp would collect both his commission and transport fee in such a case). They got stopped by the traffic police for routine check. Boy, just arriving in the city a few days ago, got so scared at the sight of police, so he answered their simple question "Where do you guys go?" with this "I'm a first-time whore. This mister is taking me to go sucking some guy's dick"
I think I could write a whole book on those anecdotes
For Bangkok's Silom, I have two favorite "cruising" spots: The 7 Eleven in Wall Street Tower right before bar opening time and The Foodland restaurant in Patpong soi 2 right after bar closing time. For the former, you could get to meet boy bars having meals before work or smoking a cigarette and probably save them and yourself a trip to the bar (two boys in the picture below were from Fresh Boys, one was in their big cock show). For the latter, you could see some familiar faces with their catch of the night.

Anyway, back to Bangkok from Phnom Peng, the first thing I did was to go to Hotmale downstairs in early evening. Ordered a drink. Few minutes later, two staffers approached and asked me to settle a bet for them (their usual ice-breaking tactic I guess).
They tried to guess where I'm from. The taller one thought I'm Singaporean and the shorter one - Vietnamese. So Shortee won and I asked him how he knows I'm Vietnamese. He said something about skin complexion and facial features similar to one of the Viet boys in Fresh Boys. 
I bought them drinks and we talked. Shortee is from Laos, while the other - Cambodia. There are four regular boys working downstairs, but two were off today. So I took the chance to ask about the tiny Lao Vinapu mentioned so many times in his  recent reports. "Must be me" Shortee said, "I'm the only Lao working here and I've been here for a long time". I did a double take. He's not that tiny and not that clingy either.
He then asked "Who's your friend who's talking about me?" Well, I never meet Vinapu, so I grasped at "Mr KFC look" straws. It immediately struck some bells. "Oh that one" He whipped out his phone, scanning through it, then showed me a picture of him and a gentleman being very clingy to each other.
First time I saw Vinapu's picture, ever. Being a longtime fan of the Big Bang Theory series, my first thought was: Nobel prize winner in Physics, not Mr. KFC (though I can see where that KFC label comes from). Either way, he is obviously someone when you meet, it would be hard for you to forget.
Then I asked if they remember @jason1975 too, the guy from Singapore. Of course, "he was here two weeks ago, he's very nice". Then I took the chance to remind Shortee that they were not very nice to him when all turned down his offer for karaoke. Shortee looked apologetic "We were busy..."
I also asked if they remember paulsf, "guy from America, quite close to Viet boys in Fresh Boys, he always sat here".
Shortee checked his phone again and produced a picture of another gentleman, who looks handsome but kinda stern. I met Paul so I'm sure it wasn't him. "But this guy comes here a lot too," Shortee said.
Well, if I have to match that picture with someone well-known in this forum who also frequents Hotmale downstairs, I would say @reader. His writing style (concise and to the point, careful choice of words, often politically correct) give me the impression of a college professor who tend to plan ahead, is serious and committed to what (or whom) he's doing (Vinapu sounds like someone who could be in academia too, but could also equally and easily get sidetracked for, his words not mine, "a bit of whoring")

(Sorry, I'm not sure if it's appropriate to openly talk about my impressions of you guys like this in my thread. If you are offended, let me know.)
Now, we get to know each other a bit better, I finally got Vinapu's comment about Shortee being clingy. Since that first meeting, anytime I walked by Hotmale and if Shortees saw me, he would rush out, clutch my hand and asked where I'm going. He quickly took to holding me and gently planting a peck on my neck many times while we were talking. @vinapu had he ever left you a hickey?
After Hotmale, I decided to go back to M-star Massage in Silom Soi 6 because earlier when walking by I spotted a very cute and boyish masseur on duty. Since Jason1975 reported that the shop used a rotation system and did not allow customers to choose masseur, I'll see if I could strong-will them into letting me pick whoever I want. If I can't, they won't have my business for sure.
(to be continued)   

(part 5)
After 2 days, I move to A&P (Arthur & Paul) - the gay-only hotel in Phnom Peng (I have always wanted to experience such a place).

It's pricy, double the price I paid for my centrally located 4 star hotel, and also a bit far from the city center. However, moving to this hotel put me in walking distance of 15 minutes or less to a number of well-known gay sauna & massages, including Dai Khmer (st 420), Ganesh House Massage (also on st 420), Hatha Khmer Massage and Love Spa (reported in part 4), to name a few, not to mention the most famous A&P, the in-house sauna of the hotel to which its guests have free access (Guide actually wanted to take me to A&P during my first tour but I told him I'm gonna stay there anyway).

My tip: visitors to Phnom Peng should try to stay in two different locations (one near the Royal Palace, and the other near A&P). A&P itself is expensive, but I saw quite a number of decent hotels, probably cheaper, nearby when I walked around the neighborhood. That means you can stay in a cheaper place and then buy an all-day multi-entry pass to A&P for a few more bucks to use their very good facilities, including dry & wet saunas, swimming pool, big jacuzzi, and also cute and smiling staff in their underwear (it's clothing optional, mind you).

It's like when you visit Ho Chi Minh city, you should stay first in District 1 (the actual city center, especially Bui Vien area which we call phố tây - street for foreigners) and later move to District 10, Sub-district 12 (the de factor gay service center with a lot of gay massage parlors and saunas).
Back to Phnom Peng, I walked to Ganesh House Massage last night because it's very near just to have some ideas. It has the same setup as Hatha Khmer Massage: curtains, boys in underwear (white this time) but fewer boys (8 on display at 10h30pm, open till midnight). As with the case of Heco, the receptionist's English is extremely poor and Guide wasn't with me, so after a few questions trying to find more info but to no avail, I gave up and walked back. Took some pictures though.


I contacted Dai Khmer (on the same street as Ganesh) on Grindr and they send me pictures of the available 5 masseurs.

I like the one in red shirt. A taste check: @vinapu and @jason1975 which ones do you like? Jason, I think you could really use a week-end trip from Singapore to sample gay life and boys in Phnom Peng.
About finding boys on app, I only had one hook-up in the first two days so don't have much to say about it. However, it looks to me that while both Blued and Grindr have a lot of local boys, Grindr appears to have a higher rate of MBs. In Thailand, I found that Hornet works better for Pattaya, Grindr for Bangkok and Blued is pretty decent for both. Vietnam is similar to Cambodia (Blued and Grindr), but you may want to install one more app - Zalo (as popular as Line in Thailand). Usually, app boys are gonna give you their Zalo contact.
Another tip: if you are in Vietnam and try to find boys on app, beware of so-called online pimps, who also advertise their service on Blued, Grindr and Zalo. 
Many of those online pimps just scout the apps, looking for any boys who advertise themselves as MB (in Vietnam, we usually use the term call boy or cb instead), then create their own list of "models". As a result, the same boy may appear in multiple lists advertised by different pimps. In many cases, the pimps know next to nothing about their boys and can't answer your questions about the boy's sexual orientation, whether he looks like his pictures, what he would or would not do in bed, etc. 
Worse still, they also jack up the price quite a bit (for example, if you deal directly with the boy, he may ask for somewhere between 500K and 1 mil VND short time, about 700-1500B or 22-45 USD. Through a pimp, that would become 1-1.5 mil VND (and if they know that you are foreigners, they may quote the price in USD for even more money, so feel free to haggle). The more a pimp can charge you, the more commission he gets (30% of what the boy gets from you). Different pimps may quote you different prices for the same boy.
I don't mind paying the pimps their cut if they actually do a their job of giving us some helpful intel about boys. But they more often than not don't. So I follow some pimps on Zalo to see pictures of the boys and then just do the opposite: scout the apps for familiar faces You also need to know where to put your location while searching. In Hanoi, for example, search the old quarter or Hoan Kiem lake. Ho Chi Minh city (see relevant locations a few lines above). 
One MB, who's currently working in Bi sauna in District 10 in Ho Chi Minh City, told me this intriguing story. He got a customer (a Vietnamese overseas) through a pimp and travelled all the way to meet the customer in his centrally-located hotel. The agreed price is 1.2 mil (which means the pimp's cut is 400K). However, the customer, for whatever reasons, changed his mind and didn't want sex. He offered the boy 500K for "meeting and chatting".
FYI: I can confirm that the boy in question does look like his pictures, very cute in person as well, and can also do massage quite professionally. I used his service and was happy.
Boy told me he had to give the pimp his cut of 400K no matter what (he also complained that pimps don't care if the deal didn't go through, they don't care if boys get in trouble with rogue customers, would not protect the boys because they themselves also know nothing about customers), and the remaining 100K wasn't even enough to cover his two-way taxi fare. So he insisted the customer pay the agreed amount because a deal is a deal. When the customer refused, you know what the boy did?
Right there in the middle of the hotel lobby, he (kinda small-built) jumped on the guy (tall and big) and screamed in Vietnamese. I need a moment think how I should translate this into English...
"Everyone, this jerk's trying to stiff a whore! This jerk's trying to stiff a whore!" (that's how we make a scene in Vietnam).
You probably know the ending right? The customer paid up and the boy left, but damages already done.

(to be continued)

Watched a show in M2M. Again, enjoyed it very much. I also wanna see again the dancer, who blowed me away (figuratively) in the previous trip. He's still great, moving like a gayish ballet dancer with a lot of energy and oozing charm.



Guy is obviously not the kind of twinks I'm usually into (a bit mature and a bit big). In other words, his look is not really a turn-on for me. But somehow, I can't take my eyes off him when he performs. I even picture this crazy scene: off him and watch him dance in bed for an hour
But when he drags, the whole package looks really disturbing

Before show, I messaged a boy asking him to come and join me in M2M, and we can go to my hotel later. He replied "I don't want to go in there". I then asked if he can go to my hotel the next day, he said "Could you change hotel. I don't like Jomtien Complex" and only agreed to meet when I explained my hotel is close to but NOT in Jomtien Complex. 
This is the second time I saw this Jomtien-phobia thing. Right before Covid, a boy I had before (one of my memorable offs) turned down my offer for a repeat because that time I stayed in Zing. He made it very clear: If Jomtien Complex, I not go.
Those two boys have something in common: pretty young, gay, have a regular job and only do this to earn extra money. I can't figure out why they hate Jomtien Complex (I asked but they wouldn't say). Any thoughts?
So the next day, after an afternoon session with the boy who hates Jomtien, my boy quota for the day was met. Evening, I went to Winner Boy bar just to watch boys having fun in underwear. There were 9 boys working that night (one already got offed before I arrived) and 4 or 5 groups of customers, most of whom sat outside, only one inside with two boys. I bought drink for the first boy who approached me and we got talking. Little did I know, I got to hear his life story for the whole next hour
He's from Bangkok, 25 years old, gay, vers top, started his MB career at Kawaii go-go bar in Boyztown when he was 17 (that means he was underaged and had to, his words, "run" whenever the police knocked on the door). His met his farang (French) boyfriend, now ex-bf, when he was 19 and the other 58, and stayed in that relationship for 4 years (show me his arm tattoo with his ex's name). It sounds like it was serious as he brought the guy home to meet the family (show me pictures of the boyfriend taken with him and his mum) and they even discussed the possibility of same-sex marriage. He didn't know why they broke up but the ex now has a new boyfriend back in France (show me pictures of a cute Caucasian teen whom I would totally off with the permission of the said boyfriend). 
Note to self: try to find cute boys who used to have farang boyfriends because they speak good English.
During the course of their relationship, boyfriend rented him a room, told him to quit his go-go job and also not to let other boys stay with him. But he kept working without the other knowing because, he said, some months boyfriend only sent 10K and the room alone already cost 8K (it was a nice room), he didn't have enough money left for food and other stuff so he had to work. 
Boyfriend visited him three times each year, stayed roughly a month each. Whenever he visited, they had sex every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, it was too much for him, especially because he had to bottom while prefer being a top. It looks like the boyfriend was also a bad influence on him in the way that the former drank and smoked heavily. He said he was drunk all the time whenever the French guy visited and also became a chain-smoker himself. Now he can cut down on drinking, but couldn't give up smoking despite trying.
Then he cheated and got a Thai boyfriend, who stayed with him in the same room the French rented for him. Once they video-called and the farang got glimpse of the other boyfriend, he got jealous. Next time they video-called, he made the poor lad go around the house with his phone camera, even into the toilet, to prove that there was no one else in the house
Then he cheated some more and got another farang supporter, who also sent him money every month until he died of Covid.
I asked the boy if he prefers Asians and he said "sure, any time". Without taking into consideration financial support, he would go for Asian boyfriends only. 
Anyway, back to his stories. Difficult times came with Covid. He went home to his mom for one year, then couldn't get along with her new boyfriend-cum-business-partner so he left and went back to Pattaya. Stayed in Winner Boy bar with 4 other boys for almost a year. Although his boss tried to support them as much as he could (providing accommodation, food ingredients and cookware so they can cook for themselves) and occasional customers who came to off them secretly from the closed bar, there were days he had nothing to eat or even had to pawn his cell phone to buy food. He gave a lot of credit to his boss, saying "we survived because we have a good boss".
Now he moved out and can afford to have his own room but it's still difficult. He only had one customer in the last two weeks. The current room rent + utility bills cost 2.5K, he needs around 200 for food per day and another 100 for cigarette, so roughly 12K per month to live on.
Back in Kawaii days, he said, he earned a lot of easy moneys, many days with two offs and customers were often more generous than the 1500ST/2500LT standard rate (now, he's willing to go ST for just 1000). He said he spent all that money on visiting karaoke host bars often having as many as 4 or 5 boys sit with him in one session (he's gay after all). 
So it's that funny cycle: he spent money from people who liked him on boys he liked, he used the support from his farang boyfriend to support his Thai boyfriend. His farang boyfriend f*cked him who in turns f*cked his Thai boyfriend (the so-called boy-on-boy-on-boy arrangement). 
I noticed that he talked about cheating quite nonchalantly like it was just the way of life, a fair exchange, not something morally wrong or shameful. This is the first time I digged into a Thai MB's complicated relationships with multiple partners-cum-supporters, so I don't know if this also speaks for others.
He concluded his story, saying with regret: I used to have a lot of money, but I didn't save. Now I learned how to save but I don't have much anymore.
It was 10.30 pm when I left. The bar was empty of customers except for one blond-haired farang sitting in a corner with a new boy who just showed up for work today (24 years old, nice ass, very sexy and revealing undies). They did something quietly for more than an hour, ordering several rounds of drinks and the boy later took a large tower to cover certain parts of his body (under-the-table activities under way I presume). Most boys also left (probably no hope for more customers to come). The only waiter (a chubby Thai with highlighted hairs in his mid-30s) nodded off in another corner. Boy told me he's the owner's boyfriend (who's 61, sitting outside with the only remaining boy) and they have been together for 13 years.
My soft drink was 90, boy drink was 150. I gave the boy 500 for his time. I would see him again for other activities. The boy has good genes. Despite everything he had been through, smoking, drinking, Covid and all, still look quite boyish with a lean, supple body. To a Westerner, he may look like he's still in high school who took to wearing underwear as his uniform.

As mentioned in my first post here, I'm a long-time follower of this forum (going back around 15 years, on and off) but rarely posted anything because from the great fountain of information you guys shared, I don't think I have anything new to add. Once I started sharing (just three weeks ago), I found that I do and should have done it many years ago Although Jason1975 says I should write trip reports, I'm not really up to a full report so I just share tidbits of my Thailand trips and occasionally take a chance to give you some info about Vietnam's scene too since I'm mainly based in Vietnam.
I gonna start this tidbit thread with stories about a cheating mamasan in Toy Boys.
This week, I came directly to Pattaya from the Bangkok airport (using Nam taxi, 1000B, they gave me detailed instructions of how to find the driver: Arrival Hall, walk outside and find Entrance No 3, then look for a car plated XXYY). Staying in AIYAREE PLACE just across street from Jomtien Complex (spacious room with a double and also a single bed, which I can use for massage, a separated space with room apparatus, arm chairs and table, perfect for working remotely, swimming pool and small gym, included breakfast buffet and also 400B hotel credit for lunch/dinner in the in-house restaurant with a pretty good selection of Western and Thai food, all of these for just 1100B/night, also no problem with guests to the room)
Chatted with a boy on Blued for a massage deal. If I'm gonna meet a guy on app, I prefer if he can do massage and if I can just book for massage only first (in case the guy shows up and looks totally different from his picture). This guy seems professional with his itemized price list (shown in the picture). Some members may know him too (the one who keeps promoting his own laundry service all the time and I find it quite cute.

He showed up, and just one look at him (small-built, slim fit, smooth skin, boyish look), I know I'm gonna follow up with some after-massage services. He's indeed professional, bringing everything (water-proof tarp, towel, a selection of massage oils, relaxing music, he just forgot candles hehe). He also speaks decent English (used to have some foreign boyfriends from China and Japan), so we chatted a lot during the session.
It turns out he used to work in Toy Boys in Boyztown about 4 years ago. My first visit of the bar many years ago left quite a bad taste in my mouth. 
I was greeted by this mamasan, who is Chinese-Vietnamese and can speak Mandarin, Vietnamese, Thai and English. It felt so good to talk to someone in my mother tongue in a foreign bar, so I sought advice from him about everything.
It was my last night in Pattaya and I liked 2 boys so decided (a first for me) to off both of them. Mamasan presented me with a handwritten bill including my drink, boy drinks, bar fines, boy's tips (1500 each) and also a charge for bar's short-time room (400 per boy). He told me he collected the boy's tips in advance just for safety and that even though I don't use the short time room at the bar, they still charge for it as a rule. I guess I was really naive at the time and probably trusted the bastard too much because he's Vietnamese too. To think that I even gave him a decent tip for all of his "troubles"!
Only when I was back to my hotel and talked more with the boys who spoke rather limited English, I found out that the short-time charges were totally bullshit. If I didn't leave town the next day, I would come back to the bar and raise the issue with the management. The next time I set foot in the bar (6 months later), I simply ignored that mamasan who recognized me instantly, refusing to speak to him even for seating or bill paying (kinda passive-agressively you must think). I became friend with another mamasan from Cambodia and had no problems since then.
So back to my massage, I asked Kiwi (the boy's nickname) why he quit, and he said he didn't like the working enviroment there and especially the mamasan, who cheated him out of his money so many times. Of course, it was the same guy. Turns out he cheated the customers and he cheated the boys too. 
Kiwi told me that many times that mamasan dealt with a customer (especially someone new to town) 2000 for ST and collected the money in advance but told the boy that the customer paid 1500 so the boy got back 1400 (minus his cut of 100). Kiwi said he never thought about asking the customers how much money they actually gave the mamasan. He only found out about this almost one year later, when a customer showed him a picture of the same handwritten bill I got, and funny enough, including the same bogus short-time room charge I had.
Kiwi also said even though he gave the mamasan his standard 100 cut every time, that one still tried to steer customers away from him (because some other boys would give mamasan 200 or even 300 cut), like telling the customer who wants a bottom that Kiwi only tops (FYI he can do both but prefer bottom position), or even saying that you need to be careful because he's kinda bad boy etc. 
Kiwi, too, only found out about this through customer feedback, and his story brought back another bad memory. 
That night, when I pointed to one of the two boys I later offed, who was standing quietly like a church mouse in a corner, Mamasan did say that boy only goes with lady customers. But because he was totally my type, I waived him in and later found out he's gay and can bottom (another red flag I should've paid attention to but I was too excited to have my first threesome ever at that point). Back at the hotel, I asked him why Mamasan said he only goes with ladies, he said he didn't know and he never went with women customers before.
Back again to my massage. Job done, I'm happy with the massage, after services and also the enlightening conversation we had, and gave him 2000 even though he only asked for 1500 tops.
Also because of this, I decided to go to Boyztown that evening and visit Toy Boys again (I walked past them a couple of weeks ago and saw they just re-opened with that cheating mamasan standing at the door), just so I have a chance to blow him off again hehe.
(to be continued)

I am sure you are correct. On the other hand that means losing an off. The young man was new to the bar and probably was only trying to be helpful. I reckon the words he used when I asked if he'd bottom were very fair. I could easily have told him I'd find another of the boys instead. But I liked him and he was extremely pleasant, more so than many boys I'd met in bars. And even though the sex was not quite what I'd hoped, I had a really good time with him. I hope he reported that other farang to the mamasan and that she then spread the word to the other Twilight bars.

I went to Senso (replied in another thread) but perhaps with more details here since this is about Senso.
Booked via Line and selected masseur before heading down. They are quite polite and responsive, even confirming that the rooms are already available for me before I arrived.
When I got there, one staff came to chit chat and asked if I've been before, or aware of the available courses. About 5-6 masseurs sitting around, some topless, some clothed.
I saw the masseur I pre-selected in the group.
Told the staff that I booked via Line, he double checked and then I was ushered up to the room (4th level) with ensuite bathroom.
Chose masseur who is lean/toned muscular who is totally my type.
He spoke decent English and was able to communicate throughout, making small talks. Showered before (alone) and after (together). Massage itself was good and proper, loosen up some of my knots... but lack sensual touches 😛
after turning around and facing up, he went straight into teasing and getting me excited for the extras, unprompted. Some licking, touching, sucking (quite surprised by this) and offered to get some action from the back.
After the happy moments, he was sweet enough to continue with massage on my shoulders, lower back while seated and commented on my body, made some small talks and showered together where we chatted further.
If I recall correctly, it was 1500baht + 1500baht tip for 90mins. Not the cheapest, but overall satisfied.
Tea and water offered before and after at the main waiting area too.
Hope this report helps!

Somehow I can't put "you" and "shy" in the same sentence

(part 13) The story of 2 unfriendly boyfriends
It was a rainy night in Jomtien Complex. Rain wasn't heavy but non-stop for hours. Most bars in the soi were empty. Many boys didn't bother showing up for work and pickings were slim.
Wet and cool weather put me in the mood for a massage, so I put up my umbrella and checked out the nearby places. I saw no one at Soda but there were 2 boys standing in front of No. 1 Massage, both of whom I never saw before. Both are cute in different ways.
The shorter one was medium-built with a cute face and poreless complexion. The taller one has a slim, taut body and big eyes. While I was approaching, Taller threw a cold glance in my direction then walked away. Not a friendly way of greeting potential customers. Shorter stayed put but didn't look any friendlier, avoiding eye contact as much as he could. 
Normally, I would give it a pass and look somewhere else as friendliness rates very high in my book. But the rain didn't give me much choice and boy was my type. So I stopped and said hello. Fortunately, Shorter's English is quite good (would be hard to try Google translation outdoor in that weather) and he himself was talkative.
His name is S, 25 years old, from somewhere near Bangkok. Today was his first day working in No. 1 Massage but no customers because of the weather.
"How much do you want for a massage with happy ending?" "1200, but no sex" 
What, do we have other kinds of happy ending that do not involve sex? 
Turned out by "sex" he meant anal f*cking. He can kiss, suck and chuckwow. That worked for me. So I asked him to go with me to my hotel. 
"No, I only do it in the shop. I don't go customer's place."
It was only around 11pm something but his shop already closed due to lack of business. It looked like we can't do it that night.
"How about the other boy? The one who was with you just before now. Does he go to customer's place?" 
"He's my boyfriend and he's same same. No go outside" 
Interesting, what he just said reminds me of Boy No 6 and his boyfriend (reported in parts 8 and 10) who have been working in the same go-go bar in Bangkok and who doesn't mind the other going with customers.
Anyway, that doesn't solve the problem at hand. 
"Look, my hotel is right there" I point in the direction of Agate, which is literally 20 meters from where we was standing. "You have nothing to be afraid of." 
S looked unsure. I think he really could use a customer that rainy night but the idea of venturing outside the safety of his shop somehow scared him. So we stood there for ten more minutes in the rain while S debated the pros and cons.
He talked to another co-worker in Thai, then made a call to (later he told me) his boyfriend. Finally, he said "Ok, I can go. But promise me you don't try to fuck me in the room."
Do I look like that desperate rapist, who wouldn't even spare a goat???
Inside my room, things got much better as I usually have a way of putting people at ease and and making them open up. S started working on my legs and back, while telling me about his relationship.
His boyfriend is 3 years younger than him at 22, and they've been together for nearly 5 years. Impressive. It looks like their relationship is going strong (No 26 and his boyfriend been together for only about 6 months). That long time also means it's easier for them to handle a sexually open relationship. 
S has been doing massage job for almost 2 years. He and his boyfriend made a deal: they can do almost everything with customers but no fucking either way. S is bottom and his boyfriend (who started the relationship with S when he was barely 18) is the only one who can f*ck him.
That's why he didn't do out-call lest a customer force him to do something he's not willing to. 
"Then why you go with me?" 
"Because you don't look like a bad person" (by "bad" I think he meant "goat rapist") 
"and farang customers are big" 
I think I can connect the dots. I have the same body type as his boyfriend, smaller than his so he thinks he could handle me if things go rough  
Still, when S jumped on top of me for the after-massage part, he checked again "Promise you won't try to fuck me" Something must have happened in his "massage career" for him to be that careful.
I just rolled my eyes. What could I do? He was even on top of me. Unless he tries to sit on my flag...
Anyway, S kept his end of the deal. He did everything else, vigorously. Sucking, kissing (very much into kissing), jerking off (he came all over my body) and more importantly, he did it with feeling. I feel we really connected that night. I also kept my end of the deal of doing nothing around his bottom area although my other end kinda hoped that S would sit on it.
It was just an okay massage but with a very happy ending. Later, we showered together and he touched the hickey he left near my collar bone, smiling and saying "Sorry". He could be sweet if he wants to.
"Don't worry, I won't show it to your boyfriend." 
Speaking of whom, I checked with S if I can also do his boyfriend. Actually I enquire if I can engage his boyfriend's professional service as a masseur at an appropriate time in the future. 
"Yes, but he is not friendly" When an unfriendly person claims that another person is not friendly, that's saying something, isn't it?
"Well, I can tell. Before he looked like he wanted to kill me." 
S laughed and gave me his boyfriend's contact. They share a rented room right there in Jomtien complex so they should be available anytime. 
Staying true to himself, S was back to being cold and distant the several times I walked by the massage shop in the next few days. I never saw him greet a customer, eyes always glued on his phone, avoiding all eye contact. He never noticed me if I didn't call out his name and when he did, didn't even acknowledge it with a smile. Does he really expect customers to pick him just based on cuteness?
Since then I was a bit worried about how things would go with S's even unfriendlier boyfriend. We made arrangements to meet at the hotel lobby a few nights later. Throughout the awkward silence of the ride up in the elevator, I kept thinking "Was it a mistake to do this?" 
Once in the room, he silently stripped down to his underwear and all my wistful thinking went out of the window. His body looked exactly my type (S was a bit too chubby for my taste but he had a cuter face to make up for it). So I decided I'm gonna just enjoy his massage and his body despite the apparent lack of connection.  
Then I noticed he fumbled around, trying to open a bottle of oil massage with slightly trembling hands. 
"Are you nervous?" 
"Yes, my first time in hotel. We don't go hotel before"
Then I remembered seeing his profile pictures wearing all Uniqlo clothes. 
"Do you like Uniqlo?" 
His face brightened at the mentioning of his favorite brand. "Yes, very much" 
"Me too. Big fan. Half of my clothes are Uniqlo"
I even got up, opened my suitcase and showed him my collection of Uniqlo apparel. Now he truly smiled. The ice was broken. 
Boyfriend of S's English wasn't as good as that of S, but he survived simple conversations. Again, we talked about his relationship. They met online in a game, got talking and fell in love after just one month, and been together since. They were both from poor families, so still have to support their parents back home. They shared all the money they made but didn't make quite enough so if S's mom gets the money this month, Boyfriend's mom would receive money the next.
Unlike S, Boyfriend kept his underwear on the whole time he was doing my back. When it was time for me to turn around, I felt he was warmed up enough so told him to take off his underwear. 
To my surprise, something already stood at attention, saluting me. I think I found the friendliest part of his body.
Understandably, things just got better, even better than with S, because Boyfriend was more of my type. Like S, he was also very much into kissing. His cock is shorter but much thicker than that of S - this couple really complement each other in many ways (except for the friendliness part). 
I think I know what you guys are now thinking. S would do a threesome, a four-hand massage with another boy but not with his boyfriend. Boyfriend wouldn't do any kind of threesome. I'm sure I want to do them both, but not at the same time. So we were all good.
Although Boyfriend remained very hard throughout, he couldn't cum because he already came earlier during the day with his boyfriend (I was his only customer of the day). After, we also showered together for an amount of time inordinate for a normal rinse-off. We kinda played in the shower. Every time I saw his cock starting to get soft, I gave it a nudge and it was instantly back to a greeting position. And its owner, the unfriendly, cold and distant Boyfriend of S, kept giggling at the exuberance and friendliness of his cock, showing no sign of wanting to get out of the shower.
Once we were done and said goodbye, Boyfriend gave me a hug (S gave me a hug and a lingering kiss on the lip so I think he still wins the friendliness competition), I gave his cock a final nudge and voilà - he left the room with a noticeable bulge in his loose pants. 
A minute later, Boyfriend sent me a smiling blushing emoticon through Line without any words. I checked if he was still hard. "Yes". I asked if he wanted me to come downstairs and make it bigger again. He replied with 5555. So much for being unfriendly huh.
(to be continued)

Well, on this trip, three different boys from Pikky and Divarium, when asked how much they expect for a short time, told me 1500B then explained: the bar requires them to ask for at least 1500.

 

I had that before from different boys and different bars so it may be bar policies indeed. This is the way bars are trying to take care about their employees and prevent them from undercutting each other I guess.
If fee expected is too high nothing stops us from trying to bargain it down, the same way we are not stopped from tipping higher than quoted.
1500 , while sensible , in Pattaya is not competitive with what boys from apps may be happy with though but as we all know advantage of bar is that we know whom  we are taking home so it warrants a bit of premium.
Way boy responded to conversation  ( immediate justification ) shows that he may think fee is on higher side.
I like way Min conducted that interview, short, brief "yes or no"  without killing fun by excessive exchange. I try to do the same way each time.    

It's actually 125 times. I keep count.

I think all of the above can be condensed to:
There is a very small minority of farang that try to manipulate the boys and treat them badly, we all know that.
There is also a very small minority of boys that try to manipulate farang to do their bidding. I see this day in day out on Facebook where the same guys try to guilt trip some unlucky guy into doing what ever it is they require. Similarly I have seen them play mind games on the gay apps and throw a hissy fit when they don't get their way.
Either was both camps are best avoided!

I can't look at the KFC logo now without thinking, there's a wise man 😉

I can't say I feel sorry for him though , on both accounts , age and fee stiffing

Gay falangs get a good deal in Thailand for 99% of the time. There's nowhere in the world where beautiful guys , a night out, good dinner and hotel are so cheap.  And equally important, safe. The vast majority of us recognise this and are thankful for it.  It was entirely reasonable for Min to show sensitivity and concern. There really are guys in desperate situations, the like of which  few of us have faced. And sometimes  we may be exploited.
We make the decision to travel there, or even to live there; anyone not able to cope with the occasional (very occasional, in my twenty-five years experience) exploitative guy should stay at home and pay UK or US or European prices for beautiful guys, a night out and so on.  We are in someone else's country, where the vast majority of citizens are  much  poorer than us. Put up with it.  I hope we continue- and this forum suggests that most of us do- to take the seriously the feelings of the guys we meet, even if that sometimes makes us vulnerable to the occasional con-man. Just as Min did.
 
 
 

I,  for one,  am not complaining. Not all boys I met were angels, some  had problems to keep their promised side of bargain, but often improved given second chance ( I said it 127 times already my second worst off  and THE BEST were with the same guy perhaps  2 trips apart ). Few enthusiastic on the first off started slacking a bit on the next one but overall picture is rosy one . It's why , like many, I  keep returning and returning.
Like Min , I believe money should be earned and don't send them money when they ask and needs to be said some are shockingly straightforward with their requests ( " I need 20000 baht and my account is xxxxxxx " , I'm kidding you not ) but I treat is as part of folklore. Not discounting fact they may be in genuine need, I just don't intend  carry somebody else's problems on my shoulder. 
But at times it pays to be generous. W  hen in covid time I learned guy I like is in problem on my own I sent him some money not even being sure he remembers me. Year later we met by chance in soi4 , he not only recognized me but also thanked me for the money,  so obviously he valued it more than me.   
So at end of day guys are in it for money and we can't blame them  for trying to earn it by , after all,  honest means. We have our brains and from time to need to use them not to fall into entrapments skillfully set.

@zoomomancs The age of consent is 16, but to provide certain "professional" services, the service provider must be 18 years old or over. That's what makes it confusing.
So if you have a boyfriend, who is 17 and is willing to sleep with you with no money (iPhone should be ok, I think) changed hands, that's no problem.

Like in Thailand, prostitution is "illegal" in Vietnam, so if you are caught red-handed as a paying customer, that's considered a misdemeanor, and you will be fined (not jailed). But if you are caught red-handed paying for someone who's between 16 and 18 years old, it's considered a more serious offense and you face more serious consequences. Of course, if that person is not yet 16 years old, it's statutory rape.
So in principle, you should always stick with boys 18 years old or older and always check their IDs as younger boys frequently lie about their age just to get customers. Since boys in Vietnam often look much younger than their age, you can never be sure (when I was doing my first Master's degree, a lot of people thought I was still in high school and I was always asked for ID entering gay clubs).

There was this money boy in Hanoi, who was only 14 years old at the time but told his customers he's 17. A young guy from the Czech Republic (24 or 25 I think), who had been doing his family business in Vietnam for several years so he spoke decent Vietnamese, was very familiar with the local gay scene and knew a lot of money boys, became the boy in question's regular customer or probably the "so-called" boyfriend (the boy even put a picture of their having dinner together on his FB). Later business wasn't so good so the guy frequently stiffed the boy on his fee. The boy then got his revenge by working with the police to set a trap. The Czech guy received a 10 year sentence and I think he's still in jail as we speak.

The OP presented a legitimate concern and many (myself included) responded with what I'm sure is well-intentioned advice. My comment goes to the irony of it all; when we finally got what we wanted--an open door policy to the LOS--we are now quick to see bad intentions in those we've traveled long and far to meet again.
Couldn't it just be a simple misunderstanding between people who speak a different language and come from a different culture, as I believe Min alluded to in his opening post? It doesn't necessarily have to be a sinister plot to coerce money out of us, does it?
Because they provide a service we seem to highly value, it's tempting to place them on a lower plane and see ulterior motives in their actions. Can't we just give them the benefit of the doubt. What I'm suggesting is that we not jump to the worst-case scenario based on anecdotal examples of what some other guys did in the past.
I think all of us have likely done stupid things in our earlier interactions with mb's. Maybe it was a harsh word and inappropriate reaction. They most likely gave us a second chance. That's all I'm suggesting here.
 
 

I’m sorry but Thailand has temples?😮😮😮