TotallyOz Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I hear it pronounced with an L but the most I see in writing is with an R. If there were going to be a article in a magazine and I spelled it falang, for example, would most understand this? Would it be considered incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't have the answer, but it's as confusing as Rama 4 Road being referred to as Palam Si! I suspect it is purely a case of the 'r' in Thai often being pronounced 'l'. The Chinese and Japanese seem to have similar problems with those letters. In a company I once worked for in Hong Kong, one of the staff kept writing about "frights" - when he really meant "flights". And in Japan, who has not heard about "the audience crapping enthusiastically" at the theatre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I hear it pronounced with an L but the most I see in writing is with an R. If there were going to be a article in a magazine and I spelled it falang, for example, would most understand this? Would it be considered incorrect? No, they're both correct (and you'd also be correct for spelling it with a symbol that is halfway between an English "r" and "l" as I most often hear it that way). Technically, it's not spelled with an "r" in Thai as they have no "r". They do have a consonant that in English we call "ror ruea" ("reua" is the Thai word for "boat") and it's correctly pronounced similar to our English "r" (although most Thais will "roll it" much like the Spanish and Mexicans do). But most asians simply can't say "r" like we from the US and UK can (on the other hand, we westerners usually can't correctly say a few of the Thai consonants or vowels) and oftentimes they just pronounce it similar to our "l". If you're following your Berlitz (or whatever) when you're trying to say how much (tao rai), the Thais will often say "tao lai", the city north of me is "Chiang Lai", etc, etc. Even most of the Thai teachers I've had have a tough time with their "r's." If you're ever having a playful time with some Thais about pronouncing English words occasionally, ask them to say "roar" (and I'll bet their attempt will raise a chuckle or two). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jomtien Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 . And in Japan, who has not heard about "the audience crapping enthusiastically" at the theatre? The same could be said for the audience for "Urinetown" a while back on Broadway. On topic, since I can pronounce "r" I say farang. Saying it with an "l" sound when you can say "r" strikes me as laughing by saying 555. Just a bit twee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 On topic, since I can pronounce "r" I say farang. Just make sure you always roll on your rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni21 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I would spell it as "farang" and I would believe it is considered the correct transliteration, for the following reasons: 1. Transliteration from Thai to English is not entirely based on pronunciation. There is a convention that each letter of the Thai alphabet is transcribed to a corresponding letter of the English alphabet, regardless of how it may end up sounding in English. One of the most curious examples is the way Phaholyothin Road is spelled. The second syllable is never pronounced with an English L sound, yet the letter L is there in its correct transcription. That is because in Thai spelling of that road name, they use a letter that, by convention, is considered as corresponding to an English L. Likewise a name like "Mahidol" university, which is always pronounced to sound like "mahidon". Likewise the name of the king, which is conventionally spelled Bhumibol. 2. The Thai letter that opens the second syllable of the word "Farang" is, as Bob says, the "boat" letter. It is the same letter that opens both syllables of the Thai word for hotel (roongraem), and by convention this letter is always transcribed into English as a R. It's also the same letter than opens the Thai word for hot (rawn). 3. The actual sound of this letter is something that English speakers find hard to manage, although speakers of many European languages will have less difficulty. It's a soft R sound, but it is pronounced at the back of the mouth, near the throat. In that sense, R is indeed a better representation of its sound than L can ever be. 4. Isaan speakers often reduce that letter to an L. I am also told by educated Thais that the failure to pronounce the R sound correctly is a sign of low social class. This probably explains why many Caucasians who go to Thailand and mingle more with the working class strata of society hear a lot more Ls than Rs. 5. If you look at dictionaries, they invariably spell the word as "Farang", because they follow the aforesaid convention of transcription. This alone tells me "farang" is correct, not "falang". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwm4sian Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Whhile we are at it, how come Jomtien is spelt as Chom Tien on some road signs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonone Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 But most asians simply can't say "r" like we from the US and UK can (on the other hand, we westerners usually can't correctly say a few of the Thai consonants or vowels) and oftentimes they just pronounce it similar to our "l"..... Even most of the Thai teachers I've had have a tough time with their "r's." If you're ever having a playful time with some Thais about pronouncing English words occasionally, ask them to say "roar" (and I'll bet their attempt will raise a chuckle or two). During a playful exchange on Dongtan beach, my timid Thai pronunciation skills were tested by attempting the Thai word for "snake". As a bit of retaliation, I asked him to pronounce "squirrel". Neither of us were successful, but had a good laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 As a bit of retaliation, I asked him to pronounce "squirrel". Neither of us were successful, but had a good laugh. I think the correct pronounciation is "squalor". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkguy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I hear it pronounced with an L but the most I see in writing is with an R. If there were going to be a article in a magazine and I spelled it falang, for example, would most understand this? Would it be considered incorrect? if your article is to be read by falung then I am sure they would understand either spelling as would most Thais that read English, if you are targeting Thais then probably use falung because polite Thais would not use the word around foreigners anyway but if they did they would know how to pronounce/spell it correctly! if your Thai "friends" or "business associates" are using the term to refer to you then you may have a problem because it is not a polite term in that context, but may be considered neutral if used by a Thai you do not know in a more general context bkkguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkguy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't have the answer, but it's as confusing as Rama 4 Road being referred to as Palam Si! I am surprised to hear you say that because in 20 years I have never seen it transliterated as "Palam" anywhere and even the Thais that are happy to disrespectfully call me "the falung" seem to be respectful enough of the current dynasty to at least roll their r's correctly when referring to the roads and bridges named after them - even the red shirt taxi drivers! bkkguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I have never seen it transliterated as "Palam" anywhere I have certainly never seen it written as such. But I have learned that this is the way I have to say it if I want taxi drivers to take me there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gwm4sian Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 And as for Plaza....... Say it like Plarza in best English accent and they look at you befuddled. Say plaZar at they all know where you mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 During a playful exchange on Dongtan beach, my timid Thai pronunciation skills were tested by attempting the Thai word for "snake". As a bit of retaliation, I asked him to pronounce "squirrel". Neither of us were successful, but had a good laugh. In the Thai language, when there are two Thai consonants together which normally aren't pronounced together, they often sneak in what one would call a 1/4 vowel with the short "a" sound. So, I'd bet a few baht that snake became "sa-nake" and "squirrel" became "sa-quirrel" or something close to that. As noted, we chuckle at their inability to say some normal western phrases, consonants, or vowels. But you ought to hear falang that absolutely butcher some of the Thai consonants and vowels. Now let's hear you say the word for "snake" (ngoo) in Thai! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonone Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 In the Thai language, when there are two Thai consonants together which normally aren't pronounced together, they often sneak in what one would call a 1/4 vowel with the short "a" sound. So, I'd bet a few baht that snake became "sa-nake" and "squirrel" became "sa-quirrel" or something close to that. As noted, we chuckle at their inability to say some normal western phrases, consonants, or vowels. But you ought to hear falang that absolutely butcher some of the Thai consonants and vowels. Now let's hear you say the word for "snake" (ngoo) in Thai! Hi Bob. That was actually the word (ngoo) they were trying to have me pronounce correctly. Perhaps I did not explain it very clearly in my post. I have been working on picking up some Thai, and that was a sort of "test" to see how I was coming along. As you so aptly assumed, I did not pass that particular test. I will continue my quest to learn some basic Thai and I am sure I will be butchering pronunciations along the way. I notice that my new friends seem very happy that I am at least trying to speak their language, so it is all in fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaybutton Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 On a practical basis it's interchangeable. Even the Thais pronounce it with an 'R' or 'L' and sometimes it's somewhere between the two, depending on their accent. I prefer the 'R' because that's how I hear it from most Thais with whom I speak or overhear, and that's how I see it written most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 And you do hear quite a bit of regional differences. The southern guys will quite clearly say "krap" (sorta like the English word "crop") whereas more often than not you only hear "kap" (cop) up here in the north. I recently sat through several 1/2 hour conversational Thai sessions with a 23-year-old Shan guy named Dton who, with the assistance of a falang friend, is preparing to start a business teaching conversational Thai to falang. I agreed to act as the guinea pig to help Dton get comfortable in the role (although I have known him for year or more, he was initially extremely nervous taking on the role of teacher to a falang). What was a bit funny was the first time I said "cop" to him during these lessons. He gave me one of those looks saying "what are you, some kind of hillbilly?!?", admonished me, and made me say it the "correct" way. I laughed pretty hard the first time he did it but didn't tell him why (it was just somewhat ironic that this Shan kid hasn't even spoken Thai all that long and he is from the hills!) and I also intentionally failed to poke back back at him every time he said "tao Lai", "yaang Lai", etc. As long as you make yourself understood wherever you are in Thailand, it probably doesn't matter all that much how you exactly pronounce a given word as they'll typically understand you from the context. Yet, be careful at times with your tones. "Kee (with a low tone) motorsy" is to ride your motorbike whereas "kee (falling tone) motorsy" is saying shit your motorbike. It makes for some funny looks on occasion, especially from the Thai language teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Yet, be careful at times with your tones. Isn't this always the stumbling block for farang trying to learn any of the tone-based Asian languages? Although I lived in Hong Kong for 20 years, I basically gave up trying to master the nine different tone levels in Cantonese. The word for nine - gau - has nine different meanings depending on how you say it - including dog and a sensitive part of the male anatomy . In my first month, I made a major mistake when, at a rather formal dinner party, I intended to complement the hostess by saying "the meal was excellent". I got my tones in a twist and what came out was more like "I am a sex maniac!" With only four tone levels, Mandarin Chinese I found a lot easier. Back to Thai, though. I find my Thai friends have the most difficulty with multiple consonants - like the word beach. They always stumble over the 'tcsh' sound at the end of the word and it comes out as beesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason1988 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The proper way to write it and say it is farang. Just because some asians can't pronounce the 'r' or ignorant foreigners write it and say it as falang doesn't make correct. When I read or hear someone saying falang I automatically know they haven't a clue to the Thai language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 When I read or hear someone saying falang I automatically know they haven't a clue to the Thai language. Based on that analysis, you just told a substantial number of the Thais up north they haven't a clue about their own language. Bangkokian Thai may be the official Thai government version of the language but it isn't all that often spoken up here. I went to trivia night last night at a British pub here in Chiangmai and sat with an Irish guy, a Welsh guy, and a guy from London. With my midwestern US language, I can assure you that none of us spoke the same language last night - or so it seemed. But I didn't bother telling them that they didn't have a clue about the English language..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddydawg Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I just looked in the Thai-English dictionary I have. According to it, it is properly pronounced " A T M " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyOz Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Thank you to everyone who posted in this thread. There was an opportunity for me to buy a domain name called falang.com. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided that it wasn't going to be worth the price that I was going to pay for it. If it had been the correct spelling of the word with the R as opposed to the L, I probably would have purchased the name for a greater price. Names like this come up on auction all the time from people who let the names expire. I had a set price in mind that I was willing to pay for the domain name. The comments in this thread helped me to decide that I should not pay a high price for the domain name. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 The assistance I provided was minimal but it was done under the presumption that it was just a personal question versus something related to your personal commercial interests. Next time, please mention that up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaySacGuy Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 In Issan, the Thai people definitely pronounce it...falang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni21 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Based on that analysis, you just told a substantial number of the Thais up north they haven't a clue about their own language. Isn't that true the world over? Most people have no clear understanding of the language they speak day in and day out. Different accents are one thing, e.g. Australian-accented English and Taiwanese-accented Mandarin, but listen carefully, and you will spot consistent errors, which suggest they don't even realise they're making them. Look at some posts made in various Thailand forums. You'd see, for example, people writing [your mistaken] when they mean [you're mistaken], and [i could care less about that] when it should be [i couldn't care less about that]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
