Londoner

A friend of mine stayed at Copa a couple of years ago on the top floor. In many ways it compared very favourably with the equivalent at Ambiance. ...it was newer of course. I thought the rooms very well-appointed It didn't suit him in one important aspect; it is more of an serviced apartment than a hotel. He preferred the security that Ambiance's reception provided when it came to visitors. There is a Reception at Copa but it is not so well-manned. And of course, the Ambiance has a restaurant and room service. I'm sure that the hotel to which Vinapu refers is Serene. I stayed there in the 90s; very cheap. It must be by the quitetets hotel in BT due to it being set back from the soi.,

That is true. Best to ask for a room near the lift.

I was at Ambiance in February and return in a few weeks. My only complaint is the noise from the open bars- particularly the early morning karaoke which Traveller Dave enjoyed so much. And there's nothing the staff can do about that. I can tell you that the management (and the previous management) hate it....judging by the lack of customers at the bars, so do most of us.

Of course, one of the ways we falangs can escape these repetitions is to learn Thai. Ever tried it?

Yes indeed....passed on from father to son- in some cases literally.

In my experience, May and June are the lowest of the low season; business picks up a little in August. Twenty years ago, there was a significant difference between high and low. That difference is more likely nowadays to be reflected at restaurants ....some popular places in Central have queues during the high season. Any difference in the gay areas seems to me to be in terms of the clientele....in the high season there are some younger guys. The number of people in my age -group remains much the same. After all, most of us are happily (or very happily, as in my case) retired.

Good advice. And such a masseur is more likely (I'd guess) to be gay. Infinitely preferable for me. I had my first Bangkok massage for ten years ( i was a regular previously) in January . It was at Arena; and it was excellent. Plenty of guys to choose from in the afternoon.

I don't recognise the "fishbowl" criticism of Ambiance and, I assume, other BT hotels. On the contrary,one of the benefits of staying there is the fact that our visitors are os commonplace that no-one gives a damn. And to be blunt, BT is not exactly heaving with gawpers- or anyone- these days. I've not stayed outside BT for twenty years and the main reason is that I don't feel comfortable with straight customers judging me or my partners. Ambiance treats its Thai visitors with respect, whoever they are. I'd be surprised if that is the same elsewhere.

Fair enough. Some falangs have had very unfortunate experiences with a particular boyfriend (often but not always an ex bar-boy) and assume from that that every Thai guy on the scene is dishonest and cynical. However, I have met Thai guys through my boyfriend who have been treated equally shabbily by falangs; promises made (not just of a financial nature) and not kept; casual dismissal when a younger or cuter guy arrives, demands on time and activities which are demeaning and inappropriate, such as denying access to friends and even family. One bad experience for a falang or a Thai does not necessarily mean that all of our relationships are worthless or exploitative; I have met decent Thai guys who love their falang boyfriends deeply and loyally and falangs who are equally sincere.

In matters relating to Thai culture, religion and traditions, it is best for we falangs to retain a degree of humility. This thread began with concerns over alleged costs of ordination. The responses indicate that different posters, quoting different Thais in different places, have very different experiences. The truth is that we are outsiders- falangs in an alien culture- and with a few exceptions, have limited knowledge. Accordingly, it is inappropriate to jump to conclusions too readily when it comes to judging someone's honesty and good faith.

I've just been on the phone to my boyfriend...10000 for the the monks/temple and 40000 for the party. This was in 2001. Kamphaeng Phaet.

The airport is definitely not the place to change your currency. Turn right as you leave Tarntawan and you'll arrive at a booth which will give much better rates. Beyond that, there's another which offers much the same. Remember that they tend to open late in the morning. In twenty years, the only time I've been cheated was in a bank- TMB- and I immediately confronted the cashier who made good the error (sic). If you use a bank, you'll probably have to queue.

What falangs do to themselves is their own business; however, I hope none of them expect or encourage young Thai guys (some of whom are not well-educated in matters of sexual health) to engage in unsafe practices. And swallowing semen definitely comes into that category.

They don't live their lives as monks but in the vast majority of cases do a short term....a bit like National Service in the UK in the 1950s, but much shorter. It is believed that all Thai males should serve at least once in their lifetimes and this is why a poor family, like my boyfriend's, do their utmost to raise the money.. Even the King was a monk for a short period. My boyfriend was a a monk for one month. His best mate did a few days-less than a week- a couple of months ago and he's thirty-four. I often see guys on the scene who have recently been monks- their hair takes weeks to grow back and their eyebrows even longer!e Steveboy may be right in this case but I suspect a degree of undue cynicism which my twenty years of visits (and twelve with my one-and-only boyfriend) doesn't support. You have try to to understand the motivations of Buddhism and the issue of monkhood is very different to the traditions which we in the west have developed.

My boyfriend was ordained in a poor and remote area of the north ... costs for food, music, parties etc may well be less there than in other places. Significantly, the abbot of the monastery was a relative who may have helped. All I am saying is that the issue is not as clear-cut as some posters suggest.

I'm not so sure. My boyfriend was ordained fourteen years ago, two years before I met him. He told me that it had cost his parents 70,000 bht. Inflation would account for the 100% rise. Precipitous action against this guy on the basis of what I've seen in the above posts would be unforgivable.

Mouthwash with alcohol should avoided for other medical reasons as well. Don't forget that pre-cum can also carry the virus. BJs are not risk-free. It's up to the individual whether he takes that risk; but he should not expect or encourage his partner to do so, particularly if younger, less experienced and less well-educated in matters of sexual health.

A useful reminder, thanks. I've always found Bali currency problematical - I hate the huge piles of grubby notes- but avoid using cards . We use the services of a gay travel company-Bali Friendly- and on our last visit two years ago our driver was able to find me a trustworthy place to change up my money. On previous visits- admittedly a decade plus ago- I was vulnerable to local money-changers in Seminyak.

If you wish to take a chance and receive a BJ, fair enough but it is inappropriate to expect or require one from a money-boy.

Sorry, not true. There is a small risk due to the tiny cuts we have in the mouths when we clean our teeth too rigorously. I'd never take the chance.

The Tarntawan buffet (and its a la carte breakfast) are included in the room price....as is breakfast for your partner. I've never been a fan of cooked breakfast and find the buffet a huge improvement.

I certainly do. Every evening I'd have a drink while awaiting the opening of the go- go bars at 2100. In those days (the 90s), there were plenty of punters and many of the dancers on their way to work would walk past. Eye-candy. The waiters were cute, too. Panorama replaced it and was much the same but by then the buzz of Boyztown was much diminished. Nevertheless, it's still the place to be in the early evening.

Steveboy...the bar you visited was Throb. Very different to Copa. It had a large number of go go dancers and a show with comedy, cute guys and no khatoeys. My boyfriend and I went on many occasions. Copa was very different; few go go dancers and a show dominated by khatoeys.,

Something to do with inside-leg measurements?

Of course, our money-boy friends may like to consider prosecuting some falangs for failure to perform adequately, paying less than agreed, making promises that were not kept, passing on an STD, over-vigorous and painful intercourse (not an uncommon complaint, by the way), publicly abusive behaviour on message boards... Seriously, generally we get a good deal...our sanuk is cheap and safe in terms of harassment from the authorities and the vast majority of the guys we meet are polite and charming. Those of us who enter into a LTR have no excuse not to do so with eyes wide open; we are invariably the older. wealthier and usually the more experienced of the two. It is after all we falangs who have chosen to go to their country for our amusement.