A Poll on Spoken English

[Guest kjun12]

[Rogie]

Lots of options but many are worded in black or white.

 

I speak with a British accent and do not mind hearing 'English' spoken with other accents. I do admit to being mildly irritated when hearing a group of American tourists in London for example, especially when they are talking loudly. But that's about as far as it goes. I won't give my opinion of other nationalities because they may not be speaking English so that falls outside the remit of this poll.

 

I think we have to be careful to distinguish between the way people talk and how they speak. So people can talk in a soft or loud voice, they can project their voice or they can mumble, sound aggressive or charming. That's talking. The way they speak comes across in their accents. So we can have 'charming accents' and 'ugly-sounding' ones.

 

I wonder if Brits are more tolerant of different ways of speaking English than North Americans. For me to tick the option that says I am irritated by Americans speaking English seems ludicrous to me when we are surrounded in Britain with hundreds of different accents, and I must include in those the many immigrants to our country who speak English with their own distinctive accent. I agree just a few British accents are known to non-Brits, and maybe it is some of them which succeed in getting up the noses of some North Americans. I may well be guilty of thinking that 'all American accents sound the same' well of course that's a stupid thing to say but I would question as to whether there are anywhere near the same number as you'd find in Britain.

 

When I say I do no mind hearing Americans speaking English I must point out that I do care very much what is said, the actual words. If a person is needlessly rude or arrogant that's beyond the pale as far as I am concerned , irrespective of what sort of English they're using!

[Guest thaiworthy]

When I say I do no mind hearing Americans speaking English I must point out that I do care very much what is said, the actual words. If a person is needlessly rude or arrogant that's beyond the pale as far as I am concerned , irrespective of what sort of English they're using!

 

I voted "I don't care and speak American English." I also agree that I care more about what is said than how it's said. I think the problem (if any) with intimidating speech is only because what is said in any particular accent can be repeatedly experienced to reinforce or initiate a particular prejudice. Some tend to associate skin color with bad behavior and now speech with ill-intended meanings. If you want to discuss how it's said in the context of language fashion, there are other nuances as well:

 

From what I've read on this and other boards, Russians ("behaving badly") is a different problem. Some feel they tend to be loud and aggressive, and I have witnessed this myself. But if Russians weren't loud and aggressive, would I have noticed? It is much easier to recognize an uncivilized person than a civil one. So you can't obviously conclude that all Russians are like this. I can't understand what they are saying if they are speaking Russian, so in this case it is not what is said, but precisely how it is said. By contrast, I have noted that generally most Thai people are soft-spoken and non-agressive, so I find this an attractive feature.

 

I guess we are talking about just another prejudice here. It doesn't necessarily need to be associated with an individual's accent or speech fashion, per se. You can't even always know what is said, but the trait everyone seems to readily notice is the volume level. For some, it's as if talking louder makes it seem like they are communicating better. It's like yelling when saying things in Thai, when you really should be just using the tones correctly and speaking clearly. People aren't hard of hearing, they just can't understand your pronunciation.

 

Can you hear me now?

[Guest]

I respect the right of Americans to trash our language as they please.

 

However, it's slightly more difficult to accept unfortunate people in other countries being taught the American version, when they could get the real thing.

 

Sometimes it is irritating to hear people speaking so loudly that you can hear the conversation from 15~20 metres away, for example from the other end of a train carriage. Some Americans certainly are like that, but I feel it is by no means universal.

 

Some of the drunken Brits on holiday are much worse.

[Bob]

I respect the right of Americans to trash our language as they please.

 

Lol....and which form/version of English in Great Britain(Scottish, Welsh, Irish, etc., etc.) is the form of "our language" that you claim we yanks are trashing?

 

I also voted that I speak US English (which has it's own varieties) and really don't care what version (Cagean, Welsh, hillbilly, South African, Australian, Jamaican, brogue, etc.) that somebody else speaks.

 

Now you didn't ask the key question - whether somebody is understood (which generally, for me, is "yes" depending on the accent and terminology used). "London English" is fairly easy for us yanks to comprehend but some of the other accents can be damn near impossible for us to understand. But, then again, it's difficult as hell for me at times to understand some people from Lousianna.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I really couldn't care less about the accent or whether the words are spelt in American or British English since I'm neither British nor American and don't speak with an accent that might be recognizable as either one BUT I get very irritated when grammar, syntax and spelling are screwed up in the name of "fashion" - being "kewl" is one example.

[Guest fountainhall]

"London English" is fairly easy for us yanks to comprehend but some of the other accents can be damn near impossible for us to understand.

Careful, Bob! By "London English", I suspect you mean something more akin to what is popularly called "the Queen's English". Most Brits would identify London English as Cockney rhyming slang (cockneys for centuries are generally said to have been born within hearing distance of the "Bow Bells" of St. Mary-le-Bow Church in the heart of London).

 

Rhyming slang is a wonderfully colourful language that sounds like gibberish to those not in the know. An example of one word is "titfer".The derivation here is a shortened form of "tit for tat" - meaning "hat"!

 

Putting rhyming slang into sentences, you'd get something like:

 

"Allo me old china - wot say we pop round the Jack. I'll stand you a pig and you can rabbit on about your teapots. We can 'ave some loop and tommy and be off before the dickory hits twelve."

 

Which being translated means -

 

"Hello my old mate (china plate) - what do you say we pop around to the bar (Jack Tar). I'll buy you a beer (pig's ear) and you can talk (rabbit and pork) about your kids (teapot lids). We can have some soup (loop de loop) and supper (Tommy Tucker) and be gone before the clock (hickory dickory dock) strikes twelve."

 

I think you'd find a great many other British dialects easier to understand!

[Bob]

Careful, Bob! By "London English", I suspect you mean something more akin to what is popularly called "the Queen's English".

 

Yes sir, that's likely the animal. I couldn't think of the proper name as my upper lip was a bit stiff....

[Guest kjun12]

Learned some interesting things through the responses. Having met Fountainhall in person, I am somewhat surprised to learn that he is British. He does not speak with a pronounced British accent but does use British words and expressions in his writing, ie whilst. I think polls like this are fun and bring on some interesting discussions. Thanks for participating in this my fellow Gay Thailand enthusiasts.

[Guest thaiworthy]

He does not speak with a pronounced British accent but does use British words and expressions in his writing, ie whilst.

He also uses the expression "I reckon," which I had always thought was more predominant among natives in the Southern US. That really threw me.

[kokopelli]

The British accent, or any accent, is not a problem with me, but the instance of Brits to mispronounce the word "Pattaya" is annoying; and there are a few more similar instances.

Why not pronounce Pattaya the same as the Thais ?

 

Of course both the Brits and Americans and other English speaking nations delight in anglicizing foreign names such as Paris, Los Angles, Rome, etc rather then pronounce it as the natives.

 

What is a surprise to me is hearing the actor Hugh Laurie, who plays the infamous America, Dr. House, speak with a very British accent when not acting.

[Rogie]

The so-called transatlantic accent should, in theory, meet with acceptance by Brits and North Americans. One of my favourite broadcasters, the late Alistair Cooke, was born in Manchester in 1908 and became an American citizen in 1941. His famous Letter from America ran on the radio for over 50 years. I could never imagine tiring of listening to his marvellous voice, but alas he is no longer with us. My favourite voice of all time belonged to John Arlott (1914 - 1991). His rich Hampshire (a county in the south of England) burr was quite wonderful. As he was a cricket commentator he was sometimes referred to as the 'voice of summer'.

 

I am also interested in the way some people, rather like Cooke, change their accent over time. I did this when I moved from the north of England to live in London. Alas I never mastered cockney but I did gradually move somewhat nearer to speaking with a 'posh' voice over a period of 20 years. Now I am back in Manchester, where folks are suspicious of posh accents so I've 'toned it down' a bit! Whereas my uncle, who emigrated from England soon after the war and married a Canadian lass, lost his English accent (and soon began to speak with a fairly convincing Canadian one), other relatives I have known who've moved abroad have retained theirs, even over very long periods of time.

 

It might be interesting to know if Americans have a favourite accent or voice or a particular individual. This might not go down well with some of you but I always liked Ronald Reagan's voice.

[Bob]

It might be interesting to know if Americans have a favourite accent or voice or a particular individual. This might not go down well with some of you but I always liked Ronald Reagan's voice.

 

I'm not sure what it is but I've always thought that some British accents are a joy to hear. Sir John Gielgud, Alec Guiness, Sir Laurence Olivier, just to name a few. The accent or diction, for whatever reason, seems to just scream out that what's being said is extremely intelligent and interesting.

 

I was only in my teens when Richard Burton appeared on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and they had Burton read a New York City phonebook from a podium. That's probably the best example of how some of us yanks are absolutely enthralled/spellbound when hearing some British accents and diction.

 

I don't react like that to any American accents although I find some of them a bit quaint (the Kennedy's "Boston", for example).

As a "northerner", I've never found the slow-talking "southern belle" accent appealing (we northerners always figured they talked as slow as they did due to brain damage.....).

[Guest fountainhall]

Having met Fountainhall in person, I am somewhat surprised to learn that he is British. He does not speak with a pronounced British accent but does use British words and expressions in his writing, ie whilst.

I wonder where you thought I came from (which of course in correct English should be "whence I came" )?

 

I am indeed a Brit through and through, although I am told my accent is more mid-Atlantic. How that happened, I can only guess since I have never lived in the US, only made quite a few visits over the years. I suspect it comes from having spent more than half my life in Asia, especially in a place like Hong Kong where meeting and conversing with Americans was a near daily occurrence.

 

I don't think I ever had much of any accent as such. My first job did happen to be with the venerable BBC in London, working in the overseas services, a job that on rare occasions would require a few words spoken 'on air' prior to the programme – important sentences like, "This is the overseas service of the British Broadcasting Corporation. The programme which follows is in Swahili and broadcast to East Africa in on 376 kilohertz!" In those far-off days, it was still the 'rule' that anyone speaking on the BBC should do so with what was termed RP = received pronunciation, a form of neutral accent-less English. Although only there for 18 months, I suppose that might also have had some effect.

 

Little anecdote. One of my BBC colleagues found he was often rostered to work on programmes to Israel. He said was always tempted to start his programmes with a pronounced Jewish accent: "Dis is de overseas service of the Breetish Broadcasting Corporation broadcasting to Israel on 658 kilohertz - but for you, my friends, 630 kilohertz!"

 

Rogie mentions the marvellous Alastair Cooke. He was the ultimate broadcaster, always speaking as though you and he were having a fireside chat. But he was a consummate pro. I wonder if you knew that he actually read every single Letter from a script?

 

And I’m with him 100% on John Arlott. It’s unlikely that non-cricket enthusiasts will have heard of him. What made him so endearing was a slow deliberate delivery in you sensed he quite literally relished every word.

 

I'm not sure what it is but I've always thought that some British accents are a joy to hear. Sir John Gielgud, Alec Guiness, Sir Laurence Olivier, just to name a few. The accent or diction, for whatever reason, seems to just scream out that what's being said is extremely intelligent and interesting.

I think one main reason is that these and many other great British actors all went to drama school and all built major careers in the theatre before they went into film. There’s not much use being on stage if the little old ladies at the back of the stalls can’t hear your mumbling! Most American actors go straight into movies without passing ‘Go’!

 

The British accent, or any accent, is not a problem with me, but the instance of Brits to mispronounce the word "Pattaya" is annoying

Personally, I find the ‘upper crust’ English accent – especially overseas – betrays an almost colonial form of condescension, no matter how well-meaning the speaker. I totally agree about misspelling names like Pattaya. I find it both annoying and grating. I once met a very formal English lady who, on hearing I lived in Thailand, announced in the best Queen's English: "I once had a marvellous time as a guest of a Sultan in Foo-kay. Such a beautiful island!" Well, I guess she did get the right part of the world, although wrong island and wrong pronunciation!

 

As the saying goes, “there’s nowt so queer as folk!”

[kokopelli]

Good British accents? Ronald Coleman; Alex Guinness; John Mills; David Attenborough; Ian McKellen; and Greer Garson to name a few. Obviously I am dating myself.

 

I could barely understand half of what the cast of the Harry Potter series spoke and would have welcomed subtitles.

[Guest]

Jonathan Agnew, Henry Blofelt & Margaret Thatcher.

[Guest anonone]

Very interesting poll...and even more interesting discussion that it provoked.

 

I am US citizen and really enjoy accents of all type. Hearing English with an accent immediately leads my mind to far away places (even if the far away place is as close as Southern US...agree about those slow speaking Southerners )

 

As someone who is learning another language as an adult, I am VERY patient with anyone who has English as a second language. It is such an advantage that English has turned out to be the "common" language adopted by most as the language of business, air travel, etc. Very spoiled group we are.

 

Of course, Tinglish is one of my favorites, though it probably has more to do with the sexy young Thai guy speaking it then the actual "accent".

[Guest thaiworthy]

People from Boston have a tendency to drop the "r" from the ends of some words, like "car" which they pronounce as "kaa." Conversely, people in the South have a tendency to add an "r" to the end of words, like "petater" for potato, and "winder" for window.

 

Clearly, there is a quandary on the horizon, for we not only need to communicate with ourselves but with computers as well.

 

For example, the new release of the iphone4s introduces Siri, a digital speaking assistant that interprets what you say into actions and responds with acknowledgments and details of action. In the future, more and more, we will be speaking to computers.

 

Unless the software can be made to adjust for all the accents and aberrations of our speech, it's going to a tough go to make these gadgets do what we want them to. Voice recognition software will have to be pretty damn sophisticated to allow for all these subtle nuances. By then, it may be that there will be no keyboard at all on smartphones and computer devices. You'll just speak to it.

 

It's what's coming, the sign of the times in the very near future.

[Guest fountainhall]

Of course, Tinglish is one of my favorites

I suspect that's true of most who read this Board

 

But two regional English accents which rather drive me up the wall are those from the Philippines and Singapore. I can bear Singlish for about three days and then want to scream! The Philippines is just marginally better. Mind you, folk from these countries will no doubt be driven up the wall by some of the UK's regional accents!!

[kokopelli]

I never was bothered by the Filipino accent however cannot say the same for the Indian (India not North America)accent which is much more difficult for me to understand.

 

Many companies outsource their customer service to the Philippines since the Filipino accent is more acceptable to Americans then the Indian accent.

[ChristianPFC]

My vote would be

 

I am not from the US or Britain and I don't care about the accent

 

(as long as it is easy to understand and correctly pronounced and there are no mistakes regarding choice of words and grammar).

 

What worries me is how English spreads around the world (at least in educated circles). There will come a time when scientific journals and books are published only in English and not translated any more. Meetings in Germany or France? If one person doesn't speak German or French, the meeting will be held in English. In Germany, advertising contains a lot of English and normal people often don't understand it (or understand it wrong).

 

I found this:

"America and England are two nations divided by a common language." -Somebody, either Oscar Wilde or George Bernard Shaw. Or maybe both.

[Guest kjun12]

People from Boston

 

People from Boston don't speak English or any other intelligible language!

[TotallyOz]

Well, I grew up in USA and we all know America invented the English language. I am not sure why there is even a debate. The Civil War was about which version of English we were going to send back over to Europe and GB. The north won and therefore our southern bells stayed stateside when we went to teach the rest of the world how to speak.

 

I have still not recovered from this and wish the world would speak and act more like the true American's, the southerners.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZmMwP5bELE

[Bob]

I have still not recovered from this and wish the world would speak and act more like the true American's, the southerners.

 

You mean like that long-toothed guy in the movie Deliverance?

[Guest thaiworthy]

You know how to spot a redneck? No curtains in the windows of his house, but has them in the windows of his camper.

 

I have still not recovered from this and wish the world would speak and act more like the true American's, the southerners.

Hehe, I love it. Now I want to hear Fountainhall sing the Redneck Pride Song. My, ain't he got a purty mouth?

 

Mebbe dueling banjoes with Rogie?