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PeterRS

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Everything posted by PeterRS

  1. I have watched several of this captain's videos and have basically agreed with almost every part of his various analyses. The one second gap between the fuel control switches being turned off is certainly an issue that needs very close investigation. If, as my earlier posts have considered, there was a major technical malfunction, the assumption would have to be that both switches turned to the off position at precisely the same time. But we should recall he states that in the history of aviation there is no procedure where immediately after "rotate" you grab both conrol switches and place them to cut off. It therefore had to be intentional. Probably beause he was not aware of it, there is a very roughly similar example of power being cut from engines (along with other wrongly activated pilot procedures) which @Keithambrose mentioned early in this thread. In June 1972, a Britsh European Airways Trident aircraft crashed soon after take off. At 16:09:10 the aircraft left the runway at London's Heathrow en route to Brussels. As the aircraft climbed, due to a severe loss of power the Trident entered a deep stall and crashed into the ground at 16:11:00. In this case the crew had overridden the standard stall warnings. There were, as noted, several reasons which caused that crash which included the state of health of the captain, failure to monitor speed, specific actions which led to early retraction of the flaps and others largely involving the crew. It can not be identical to the AI crash if only because the cockpit layouts and computerisation more than 50 years ago were vastly different. But there are certainly some rough similarites - notably a loss of engine power. The only other concern I have about the Report is that it took 12 seconds from discovery that the fuel supply had been cut off for the switches to be reactivated. Granted there will have been massive confusion in the cockpit. But one of the pilots in the vdo states that the other pilot saw out of the corner of his eye that his colleague had swtiched the fuel supply switches to off and asks whey he did that. That being the case, why - despite all the confusion - why did it take the one who made that comment a full 12 seconds to switch fuel supply to one engine back on followed two seconds later by the second fuel supply switch? If you know you have lost power because the fuel supply switches are in the wrong position, is not your primary reaction at that utterly critical stage in the flight to do everything possible to switch them back on? That in my view could surely not have taken more than 5 or 6 seconds.
  2. Looking at the photo in my earlier post, it is clear that the fuel cut off switches are very close to the engine throttles. As we know each fuel cut off switch requires two separate actions -a pull out locking device and then a move down. We know from the USFAA SAIB notice in 2018 that some 737s had been delivered with the locking device disengaged. The advisory note provided to airlines was simply that: note it and take action. But it was not mandatory. The switch designs on the 787 are identical to those on the 737 and it is not known if the locking device was in fact operational on the doomed 787. If not, then even accidentally brushing the switches with simple hand movements would be enough to activate the cut off. To me that seems simple. But it fails to take into account that there is no record of such accidental touches had happened on take-off before. It also assumes the cut off switch was in fact disengaged. Additionally, when taking off, for full power the thrust levers are pushed forwards, not backwards. Accidentally touching the fuel supply switches would be extremely unlikely. But then there is concern that the aircraft was fitted with a computerised autothrottle device. To my understanding, this means pilots input the desired flight parameters including engine thrust. The computer then ensures that thrust management provides optimal engine thrust under varying flight conditions. Thus at take-off, the computer effectively takes control ensuring that the pilot flying does not require his hands on the thrust levers shortly after the aircraft leaves the ground. What a hand does thereafter is up to the pilot flying. It is known that this autothrottle computer programme caused issues with the 787 fleet on October 23 2024 when the FAA issued a mandatory Airworthiness Directive for all 787s. This gave airlines 6 months to correct safety concerns related to "erroneous autothrottle behaviour". The Directive continues - "The directive was prompted by incidents where the autothrottle system exhibited erroneous behavior during critical flight phases such as balked landings, with the system failing to properly adjust thrust levels. Additionally, the low range radio altimeter (LRRA) has shown potential for erroneous readings, which can lead to inadequate airspeed protections. These issues could result in unsafe conditions, including runway overruns or controlled flight into terrain." We have no idea if Air India had acted on the Directive. Even so, we also do not know if such an action would automatically push the autothrottle switches downwards. There is also the fact that on the flight from Delhi to Ahmadabad this 787 was beset by several internal electrical problems. Passengers sat on the ground with the doors shut for more than 15 minutes with no air conditioning despite intense heat. The in-flight entertaiment system did not work. Passenger lighting and the crew call buttons did not work. As the passenger who took the video said "Nothing is working!" Often on the ground, the a/c will be supplied by an external power unit. But that is disconnected around five minutes prior to push-back when the engines are started. Even then, as this aircraft was taxiing the on board a/c was still not working. Was there perhaps a greater electrical problem that came to affect the aircraft on the second leg of the flight to London. More speculation. https://www.aviacionline.com/faa-issues-airworthiness-directive-for-boeing-787-dreamliners-due-to-autothrottle-and-radio-altimeter-issues
  3. There was a time not all that long ago when I wached CNN virtually every mornng. It was a routine for many, many years until I decided to ban all tv news programmes. The number of times I now go even to the BBC news site is perhaps just a couple of times each month. But I do read on line news. This morning i was saddened to learn of the death of David Gergen, the political analyst who was a frequent fixture on CNN. A one-time advisor to four Presidents, I liked his cool analytical skills and his unflappability! Compared to so many biased so-called experts, I believed what he said and enjoyed listening to him. RIP David Gergen.
  4. OMG! I had forgotten about that movie. I watched it several times, always hoping that Christopher Atkins would finally strip totally naked!
  5. I supose I should not be surprised that the glacier has been retreating. More than 3 decades ago I read in an on-board airline magazine sbout Glacier Bay in Alaska off Juneau. I determined to see it. So on my next trip to New York I stopped off in Seattle for a week's trip up the Inside Passage on a small boat. We saw several glaciers in various fjords and then the well-known Mendenhall Glacier just outside Juneau, but Glacier Bay was the highlight. Only two floating vessels were then allowed in for each 24 hours - one of the large cruise ships and the little boat I was on. We entered the Bay at midniight. I remember waking up and hearing loud occasional cracking noises. The boat had parked just off the amazing Marjorie Glacier and the cracks were the sound of it moving. Since its discovery 2 centuries earlier, the massive block of ice that covered the entrance to the Bay had retreated around 65 miles with then 17 separate tidewater glaciers coming down as far as the sea. It was clear a larger number had once reached the sea but were now ending up further in the mountains. It was a fascinating day, seeing not only the glaciers but also a wide variety of sea life including orcas, humpback whales, puffins and a host of others. I have tried without success to check how many tidewater glaciers now remain. I believe it has been reduced to 10 but others may have a more accurate figure.
  6. Sounds like this might be related in some way to the Foodland 7-Michelin Star establishment - although i have never tried their frogs legs! 🤣 🤣
  7. FYI I think that is exactly what I wrote at the end of my earlier post - the same BBC quote although I had omitted the BBC link, so thank you for that.
  8. I am breaking news that has just appeared in the media.
  9. Just read that the Perito Moreno glacier, for long one that defied the trend of glacial retreat, has now succumbed. Over the last 7 years it has lost 1.92 sq. kms of ice cover and its thickness is decreasing by around 8 meters per year. The glacier had actually continued to advance until 2018 when many would witness its crashing along the rock face in front of it. Sadly no more. It was one of the real highllights of my trip to South America 15 years ago. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jul/11/glacier-patagonia-perito-moreno-decline
  10. Just for info, I realise I added to my post above after @Moses gave it a like.
  11. 1. Totally agree. 2. I think when it comes to the possibility of murder/suicide, both the German Wings crash and the disappearance of Malaysian 370 have a major difference: both occurred well into the fight, between 30 and 40 minutes well after the aircraft had reached initial cruising altitudes. We still have little clue about the MH dsappearance, but the co-pilot could have downed the German Wings flight at any time on the outward sector from Dusseldorf or on the return - provided the captain was not in the cockpit. He waited until over the Alps and - I suspect - the authorities might have believed it was a result of a technical malfunction. He might have thought crashing into a mountainside at full speed would destroy the black box and the VCR. Without them, they would have little clue about his computer inputs or the attempt by the captain to reenter the cockpit. Pure speculation, I fully admit. 3.The key difference for me betwen the AI crash and the other two is that it took place only seconds after take-off. If we assume for the sake of discussion that the captain was suicidal and intended to down the plane, why activate the fuel switches so close to the ground? As a highly experienced pilot, he will have known that investigators can find out vastly more about a crash when it happens on the ground rather than after spiralling down from 35,000 ft in the air or is out at sea. Bound for London, he knew he would have to fly over water - perhaps the Indian Ocean towards Dubai and then up over the Gulf, then just off the north coast of Turkey over the Black Sea or with a more northern route over the Caspian Sea, and finally on the descent over the English channel. Remember Air France 447, the flight from Rio to Paris which crashed into the Atlantic in 2009 after the crew were completely mystified as to what was happening to the aircraft when the pitot tubes iced up? The investigation found that this was in part a result of crew failure, but it took two years to locate the flight recorders and for the exact cause of the crash to be known. For a long time it was assumed the black boxes would never be found. For a country like India where family is so important, surely it would be a monstrous disgrace and loss of face if known that one of their number had deliberately crashed a plane? Better to do it where the one whose actions caused it are less likely to be discovered? Again speculation. 4. Which then leaves one with the greater possiblity of a technical/computer malfunction. And here the BBC's website gives us another twist. It quotes from the Report that in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin highighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches had been installed with the locking feature disengaged. It adds - "While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product. "The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections." And the technical issue theories do not end here. One former AAIB inspector wonders if the fuel switches tripped due to a problem with the plane's electronic control unit. Now we must sit and await further news. Photo: BBC/Getty Images showing the fuel switches with their metal covers
  12. Sorry but I do not agree with the murder/suicide theory for the very reasons i outlined in my earlier post. The co-pilot of the German Wings plane had a long history of psychiatric problems, had ingested a cocktail of drugs no active pilot should be taking, and had previousy researched suicide and how to lock cockpit doors tightly. Presently we have no reason to believe that either of the Indian cockpit crew had suicide on their minds. The key question surely is: why did both fuel switches turn to off within a second of each other? I accept one pilot could have done it but as the co-pilot was flying the plane, it would have to have been the senior pilot who activated the switches. Both pilots denied responsibility just prior to the crash. The captain had logged 8,596 hours on the 787. It is impossble to believe that he had accidentally turned both switches off - each action itself requiring two actions. But for the time being it must remain one possible theory. My primary concern is much more all the very major problems the 787 has experienced in the production plant in North Charleston, a totally new facility for Boeing plane manufacture. Books and endess articles have been written about this and whistleblowers have added to Boeing's problems. One whistleblower died the day before he was due to give testimony to Congress! All of which may mean nothing. But then the 787 problems keep cropping up, many just this year. The Dreamliners have been grounded several times, once when Boeing itself grounded 8 of them after discovering structural problems. More recently KLM has grounded 7 of their 787s, 30% of its long haul fleet. British Airways grounded 4 of its 787s for months, and has announced it expects to experience regular 787 groundings this year. Sam Selehpour, one of the whistleblowers, went public on the NBS Nightly News claiming there are small unplugged gaps in the welding of sections of the fuselge that could result in the plane literally coming apart. in mid-air. Boeing has warned several airlines of design problems with the rear fuselage. Just this year, all airlines were ordered to ground their 787s for inspections. This is a plane that clearly seems feted to suffer major flaws. Could a computer malfunction - or indeed an unknown function as on the 737 Max crashes - be to blame? Eventually we will find out. I often refer to the professional pilots website pprune.org but it is based in the USA and has not yet caught up with the AAIB findings.
  13. Indeed, we may never know, but somehow I suspect this is not similar to the German Wings crash. Although we do not know the mental state of the two Air India piots, we did learn following the German WIngs crash that the co-pilot had quite serious mental problems which included thoughts of suicide. He had earlier been hospitalised for depression. When searching his apartment a few days after the crash investigators found a doctor's letter declaring the co-pilot was unfit for work. As a result of doctor/patient confidentiality in Germany, the doctor could not pass any medical information on to the airline. Investigators also found he was taking two anti-depressants, escitalopram and mirtazapine, and a sleep medication. All were found in his body. Apparently escitalopram is associated with suicidal thoughts, especially soon after treatment is commenced. He had been prescribed this drug nine days earlier. Criminal investigators then discovered on his computer "ways to commit suicode" and "cockpit doors and their security provisions." As if this was not enough, doctors were aware that for years he had feared he was going blind. He had consulted no less than 40 doctors and feared his pilot's licence could be revoked. He should never have been in a cockpit, but German Wings did not know that in advance.
  14. Something tells me the sight of @Olddaddy dancing on stage with the boys might be more than a bit of a turn-off for other potential customers. 🤣 🤣
  15. I'm not sure I would have liked to try sugar, the more so as it has not even been tried on humans yet. As the link provided in the OP clearly states, “The research we have done is very much early stage". Obviously a very large monitored study, almost certainly an international one, will be required before any sugar treatment is given the go ahead by the various regulators. I suspect that if in fact it does work on humans , it will be 4 to 5 years before it is available on the market. My grandfathers and father were completely bald and twenty years ago my younger brother was going quite bald (he is now totally bald!) Apart from a slightly receding hairline, I had a small bald patch on the crown of the scalp and had been wondering for a while if anything could be done about it. I thought about transplants but was then recommended Rogaine which in some countries is sold as Regaine. It was then quite expensive but I decided to try it. I have no idea if it was due to the daily applications of Rogaine, but my gradual hair loss stopped. I used the liquid for ten years from 2005 and not since. My small bald patch is perhaps fractionally larger, but I think it is only I that notice it. Many people say they are surprised that I seem to have almost a full head of hair, the more so as baldness runs in the family. The only problem I found with Rogaine was you are supposed to use it morning and night. But it does start to leave a yellowish stain on the pillow. I just added an extra cover.
  16. At last little nuggets from the crash are starting to appear - and this first one is somewhat scary. India's Aircraft Accident Investigtion Bureau (AAIB) reports that something happened to switch off the supply of fuel to both engines within one second of each other. In the cockpit voice recording, one pilot asks the other why he activated both fuel cutoff switches - an action that has to be deliberate and involves two steps for each cut off. The other pilot says he did nothing. At the time of take-off, the co-pilot was flying the plane. The MAYDAY call was received by the air traffic controller nine seconds later. The crew was able to restart one engine and this was starting to generate a degree of lift. The second had just been relit but wihout time to be effective. By then the plane was doomed. Although still early days, speculation has now started. Was it a technical issue? Was it a software issue? Was it human error? Definitely ruled out has been unsatisfactory fuel and the competency of the pilots who had many hours flying the 787s. Both were breathalysed at 6:25 local time and found capable of operating the flight. Bird strikes have also been ruled out after examination of the engines. A number of imporant questions will now focus firstly on the pilots. One possibility, however unlikely, is that this was a deliberate action by one of the pilots essentially to commit suicide and mass murder. Sadly we recall the 2015 German Wings flight 9525 when the copilot of a flight from Barcelona to Dussedorf deliberately locked the pilot out of the cockpit and crashed his flight into the Alps just to commit suicide. Another could be a software issue. Again this is unlikely as more than 1,000 787s have been flying without a similar incident occurring. But if it is found to be an issue with software, it will prove not merely a major headache for Boeing, it would be a catastrophe. We have to recall that the 787 development was a chapter of major disasters. As pointed out above, and as reported in the following article from Aero-News Journal - "What was meant to be a dream for airlines and passengers alike has, for many, turned into a recurring nightmare, casting a shadow over Boeing’s reputation and raising serious questions about its manufacturing processes. The Dreamliner’s troubles are not a singular event but a series of compounding issues that have plagued the aircraft since its inception." Now we must await the next more detailed series of reports from Boeing and the AAIB. &nbsp https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cx2vrdd5xkeo https://www.aeronewsjournal.com/2025/03/boeings-dreamliner-turning-into.html
  17. Life is not really the bowl of cherries some portray it to be - at least not always in my case. True, I've had many great times, been to so many fabulous parts of our world, got to know some really interesting people and generally been wonderfully lucky to be lured to Asia when still in my 20s. Here I have worked for major multi-national companies as well as starting up and running two tiny ones of my own. To have worked in a field that I love has been another huge benefit. As my sister always tells me, I have been a very lucky bastard! Yet being blessed with so much does not mean everyday life has not been without a large number of problems, difficult situations, even hardships. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for when I first landed in Hong Kong. I was excited, thrilled even, the more so to get away from living in the UK. What I had not realised was that the company I was working for was basically overseen by political appointees and civil servants - usually interfering ones. I would often sit in at meetings and almost want to explode at the nonsense that was being discussed. Yet I had somehow to learn to keep a smile on my face, politely answer even the most inane questions and generally find ways to push forward with my agenda. I had naturally discussed that with the Chairman in advance, but he was not very good at siding with me if he felt the wind blowing in the opposite direction. Near the end of my first year I had all but decided to give up and return to the UK. But then something clicked. I started to realise that everyone I was interacting with was playing a game - including me. The political animals believed they had to act in a certain way, because that's what they did for most of their professional lives. I acted in my way because I knew much more about running the business than they and could not understand why they could not understand that! Once my brain had processed that, life quickly became far easier. I played their game, eventually becoming more than just quite good at it. After having annual extensions to my contract, suddenly I was offered a 4-year deal with guaranteed quite generous annual increases. But that was a Hong Kong based company. Working in senior positions for multi-nationals was somewhat different. Although the only foreigner working in the Tokyo office and with my own staff, I still had to get what I wanted to achieve approved by no less than six senior executives in other parts of the world. Six! Japan obviously, Hong Kong, Sydney, London and two in New York. Often that ran perfectly smoothly. At other times it was a near nightmare. I soon learned that being on the geographical fringe of a multi-national could result in endless delays for urgent issues, being the political nice guy again when one of the six needed his ego massaged before he'd agree - and so on. Sometimes I would leave the office in the evening intensely frustrated. But Tokyo is a great place to unwind, great nightlife and with good friends to moan with over drinks. By the next mornings I would be bright and relatively cheery again. When I was headhunted to run another multi-national back in Hong Kong, I was excited, but very soon realised there was little difference. I was still just a cog (albeit quite a large one) but in an even larger wheel. This time I was no longer prepared to pander to their egos. I quit. My contract had a parachute built into it – massively far from golden, not even bronze – but enough to keep me going for a time and help me set up another company. The cherries when you run your own business can also be few and far between. Legislation, contracts, taxes, negotiations taking months before collapsing, “oh, can you please help me with this, but I can’t afford your fee!”, and a galaxy of other issues were never far away. But I was enjoying myself and my relative freedom. I could take time off to indulge my passion for travel – and as @vinapu so elegantly puts it adding to my stamp collection with extra-long week-ends in Bangkok. What I had learned from the difficult times had in fact by now made life so much simpler. Soon the cherry bowl was becoming quite full. I was happy!
  18. Very many thanks for the recommendation. I am listening to my first one now and find it fascinating. Lots of enjoyable listening ahead.
  19. The famed advertising tycoon David Ogilvie once wrote, "Encourage innovation. Change is our lifeblood. Stagnation our death knell." Emile Zola had a slightly different view. "This sounded the death knell of small family businesses, soon to be followed by the disappearance of the individual entrepreneur, gobbled up by the increasingly hungry ogre of capitalism." I'm not sure how relevant these are to the end of what had appeared to be one relatively popular bar in Sunee Plaza. But it was obvious Sunee was dying years ago. Was it due to it just becoming boring? Did it make any real attempts to change? Was Winner Bar ever likely to survive? I visited once quite soon after it opened and enjoyed it. But for a piece of real estate for most gay patrons in a dying part of town being open for just 6 hours a day, maintaining quite a large stock of booze and praying that each low season would be better that the last, surely that required some sort of miracle. What change might be required to reverse this dying trend I have no idea. All I can think of is clustering of venues as in Jomtien and as used to be in Bangkok's Soi Twilight. But this would require bar and venue owners to come together to work out a strategy and plan for the future. From what I recall, in the past owners rarely had much interest in any other than their own venue.
  20. Interesting article. And rather shocking that Americans spend more time alone today than at any time in recorded history. I suspect that also appies to more than a few other countries. Another factor is that American men spend 7 hours in front of their televisions for every one they hang out with friends. As it states, "The rise of individualism and solitude since 1970 has been all-encompassing." The author places blame on social media - but only to a certain extent. His conclusion, though, is damning. "To be a citizen of the Internet is to spend hundreds of hours inside the minds of virtual people we couldn’t party with, even if we desperately wanted to." When I was at university in the UK many decades ago and for the few years I worked there before moving to Asia, there always seemed to be parties in someone's home every week-end. Usually very simple ones - bring your own bottle etc. - but it was the regular means of socialising. And of meeting fellow gays for hook-ups or even just friendships. Without social media and even phone calls being expensive, home parties were the ideal way to meet others. Partying in a restaurant was extremely rare as dining out took up a considerably greater percentage of income. But Asia is not like the west. I quickly found that while people did give parties they were almost exclusively in restaurants - rarely expensive ones. Socialising was done over mah jong before dinner, lots of food and drink, chat and laughter, and then - finish. As soon as dinner was over, that was the cue for everyone to depart. A large part of the reason is that in Hong Kong - and no doubt many Asian homes - accommodation is mostly a small fraction of the size of that in the west. Being invited to homes for dinners or parties was almost exclusively for the richer members of society. I had two gay friends in Hong Kong who were, let's say, not short of a dollar or two. One was a really good cook and so they regularly invited friends for wonderful dinners and parties always with interesting fellow guests, many from the gay community. They were, though, an exception. I find the same here in Bangkok. Thais - or at least those that I know - rarely entertain at home.
  21. As usual @macaroni21 has been very comprehensive. I remember 15-20 years or so ago when the free gay mags used to include maps, there were always complaints that they were either not up to date or venues were not quite in the right location. But the problem then was that so much on the gay scene was changing almost monthly and the mags had no one on site to go around checking. From what I read here things seem to be a bit more stable now, but I am certainly not the person to confirm that.
  22. I only read about these sites on a music blog. Seems Classic FM has been going downhill in terms of listeners for quite some time. It has recently pinched a young producer Joseph Zubier from the BBC's Radio 3 classical channel to become its new Deputy MD.
  23. I recently came across a youtube video titled "The Tragic Life of Male Concubines in Roman Empire". It goes into detail about how keeping boys as male concubines was a much more common practice on an horrific scale than most will have realised, with boys around 12 being especially desired. Greek boys were more expensive due to their perceived sophistication, refinement and education. The vdo is much too long as there is too much endless repetition. But it made me want to learn more. Youtube does not permit uploading of the vdo - this is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rimSgImcd-w One of the commentators mentions that some of detail in the video is contained in a 2005 book titled "Rubicon" by the author Tom Holland. Looking up the book on amazon, I note that it gets a slew of excellent reviews from professional reviewers, as this from the Los Angeles Times - “A fascinating picture of Roman city life. . . . In every aspect of this story, Holland expertly makes the Romans, so alien and yet so familiar, relevant to us.” Inevitably the issue of concubines forms only a small part of the book. One amazon reviewer more neatly sums it up - "you invariably tend to sketch the potraits of several events that have been magisterially described by the author, as if he is describing contemporary events." Amazon's Kindle edition is available for US$4.99. Another professional reviewer draws parallels with 21st century life. Certainly and very sadly the trafficking of young girls and boys continues to this day.
  24. Thankfully his two feet are firmly locked up now. How he was permitted to remain as a Congressman as details of all his lying and deceiving trickled out is extraordinary! Just noticed his statement made prior to entering jail - "I’m heading to prison, folks and I need you to hear this loud and clear: I’m not suicidal. I’m not depressed. I have no intentions of harming myself, and I will not willingly engage in any sexual activity while I’m in there," he posted on X. " If anything comes out suggesting otherwise, consider it a lie…full stop. The statistics around what happens to gay men in BOP custody are horrifying, and that’s exactly why I’m putting this out there now. So if something does happen, there’s no confusion. Seems like he plans to enjoy himself when there. "Willingly not engage in any sexual activity?" How about unwillingly? My guess is he'll be used like never before! https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/george-santos-issues-statement-heading-prison-im-not-suicidal
  25. Google translates the first line on the website as - Hi Sis Club Pattaya By Sit2sis, a club that will make everyone have fun all night long, with a KTV room 🎤 and girls to take care of you closely. Later it says this - Do you miss our girls? Come and see our girls. The shop opens from 22:00 onwards. Doesn't sound remotely like a gay venue. No idea why it has a vdo of guys!
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