PeterRS

Sadly yet another couple of non sequiturs! You query the margin of deaths variously quoted as between 1.5 and 3 million, suggesting that because an exact figure can not be given this inevitably results in my knowing litte about what went on in Cambodia. That, sir, is stretching belief to unbelievable ends. Can you find anywhere a definite figure of Cambodians murdered by the Khmer Rouge? Not even the Cambodians themselves know! Wikipedia suggests "up to 3 million." Britannica also claims "3 million". Facts assembled by Yale University suggest "1.7 million" but perceptively add, "Estimates of the number of people who perished under the Khmer Rouge vary tremendously." https://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Cambodia/sub5_2b/entry-2860.html Under a headline UCLA demographer produces best estimate yet of Cambodia’s death toll under Pol Pot Meg Sullivan wrote in 2015, "The death toll in Cambodia under Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot was most likely between 1.2 million and 2.8 million" https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-demographer-produces-best-estimate-yet-of-cambodias-death-toll-under-pol-pot As for Bizot, you have no idea if he was or was not "in a position to travel freely and talk to whomever he wanted." Are you aware that he was married to a Cambodian woman and had a daughter Helene with her? You have not read the book (as far as I know). So you merely make a supposition. In fact he talked to a lot of Cambodians about the Khmer Rouge both before and after his capture.

I'm sorry but I can find no post of yours which explains the source [!] of the Khmer Rouge. There is one about the "results" of the Khmer Years which were not accurate. If I missed something about the rise, I apologise. As for your comment I suggest you need to read the Willliam Shawcross book. He makes all the history and facts perfectly clear. Until the US started bombing the hell out of Cambodia the Khmer Rouge was a small bunch of Marxist rebels. That illegal bombing led to massive insecurity in the country, created a political vacuum and directly led to the Khmer Rouge filling it. To offer a more detailed account, no one would argue that Cambodia before the Khmer Rouge was a stable society. The departure of the French had left the country in a state of flux. On the one hand it offered a considerable number of the elite and middle-class Cambodians the opportunity to study in France where indirectly they learned about nationalism and modern society. On the other, within Cambodia there was virtually no formal education of any sort. When the French left there was precisely one school in the whole of the country! This group that studied in France included Saloth Sar, a young man from a land-owning family later to become known as the butcher Pol Pot and other leaders of what first became the Communist Party of Cambodia which, as we know, they renamed Kampuchea. Khmer Rouge basically means red/communist Khmer. In addition to what the French hoped they would learn, as earlier with Mao and his Chinese colleagues as well as Ho Chi Minh and his Vietnamese colleagues, they were able to study the ideals of Marx and Lenin. By this time, the teachings of Mao were also being studied. These were what shaped Khmer Rouge philosophy in its early years. After their return to Cambodia, the Cold War was under way. In 1953 the nation gained independence. The king abdicated to make way for his son, Prince Sihanouk. Although impressionable, he did much to modernise the country, especially Phnom Penh, and expand the provision of education. But the Prince was inflexible. He chose to spend more time and money on the cities, doing little for those in the countryside where the vast majority remained desperately poor. Then came the Vietnam War. Sihanouk's attempts to maintain neutrality led him to break off relations with the USA and permit the North Vietnamese to use a small part of Cambodia to establish bases and what became known as the Ho Chi Minh Trail. This infuriated the Americans. But Sihanouk switched sides again by re-establishing relations with the USA in early 1970. Within two months in a bloodless coup when Sihanouk was out of the country, he was deposed. Whether this occurred with CIA assistance remains open to question, but Lon Nol was installed as the pro-American de facto head of state of a military dictatorship. His rule was a disaster. Then came the illegal bombing campaign. Whereas the US was to drop approx. 180,000 tons of bombs on Japan during WWII, in one 7-month period in 1973 they dropped an estimated 250,000 tons on poor Cambodia. In total 2.7 million tons of bombs had rained down on 113,000 sites within the country in the previous four years. Not surprisingly, many land owners and farmers fled the countryside for what they assumed would be the safety of the capital city. By this time a number of Cambodian rebel groups had formed in addition to the Khmer Rouge. All were allied against the Vietnamese. Equally, the people in the countryside were utterly terrified as a result of the bombing. So why did the Khmer Rouge gain the upper hand? For the very simple reason that Prince Sihanouk from his base in Beijing had not only himself joined the faction, in a radio broadcast he urged his fellow cpountrymen to support them. The American bombing also drastically disrupted the amount of rice being cultivated. Within Phnom Penh food became more and more scarce. Having been welcomed to take over much of the countryside, the small number of Khmer rebels soon put their leadership's mad ideals into practice. They formed farming communities into communes which became increasingly inefficient. They blocked the shipment of rice to Phnom Penh. These mostly teenage 'solders' were then ordered to march on Phnom Penh to take over the government. This they succeeded in doing in April 1975, five days after Lon Nol had fled the city. We know that thereafter the cities were emptied. In one short excerpt from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum site, we know too that prior to the genocide - The Khmer Rouge aimed to abolish the traditional family. Meals were often taken communally. Many children were separated from their parents and put into labor brigades that traveled from place to place to join in work projects. People were often forbidden to show the slightest affection, humor, or pity, and were encouraged to inform on each other . . . As Khmer Rouge rule lengthened, mismanagement created increasing shortages of food, drugs, and basic medical care. In a country that had killed off many of its doctors and took pride in extreme self-reliance, countless people succumbed to diseases that could have been easily cured. Hunger likely caused a bigger toll: By some estimates, between 500,000 and 1.5 million of the lives lost between 1975 and 1979 were due to Khmer Rouge–induced famine. https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/countries/cambodia/khmer-rouge-revolution Finally, let's recall that Tuol Sleng was far from the only prison used by the Khmer Rouge. This map (taken from the above website) illustrates many of the almost 200 they operated around the country, in each torturing and executing their prisoners. All this only partly explains the rise of the Khmer Rouge. Sorry again @vinapu but I saw nothing about this in your previous post. If you know more than I, then please post it. I know I have been somewhat dismissive of your comments. I am perfectly happy if I have got anything wrong in my posts for these to be pointed out and criticised.

It's usual to insert the source of such a headline.

Also totally incorrect. The numbers of Khmer Rouge were tiny in comparison to the population of the country as a whole. Depending on reports between 1.5 and 3 milion Cambodians were killed. Not all by Khmer Rouge soldiers but also as a result of the frightful famines which resulted from their mad agricultural policies. The population of Cambodia in 1975 was approx, 6.5-7 million. So we can reasonably say that between one fifth and one third were murdered in the genocide. Under the Freedom of Information Act, the US reckoned the number of Khmer Rouge forces ranged from 30,000 to 70,000 in 1975. This tallies with the number of 60,000 quoted in William Shawcross superb and chilling book, "Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia." An investigative reporter, Shawcross had visited Cambodia and talked to many survivors earlier than @vinapu's "expert". Sorry, but the fact that approx. 60,000 -70,000 mad KR forces could commit such genocide gives the lie to there being "both willing and forced to" participants.

A very good point and I am sorry I did not think of this when starting the thread. My list has 3 fiction and 2 non-fiction.

It is fact! It is not what I think! I am not sure if you read my post correctly. I did not think or pretend what I wrote! Bizot was a teacher in the country and became caught up in the Khmer Rouge monstrosity. He was actually there, he witnessed the events in the countryside as they happened. He was not someone who just happened to visit the country after the end of the KR regime, like someone you believe knows better! I trust completely what Bizot writes (as did a whole bunch of reviewers and other non-Cambodians like Bizot who eventually managed to escape from Cambodia during the KR evil only because they were not Cambodians.) "Breathtaking memoir by a young French scholar who twice managed to escape from the clutches of the Khmer Rouge as the Cambodian genocide was unfolding." https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/francois-bizot/the-gate/ Have you read the book? Have you actually read any books about what the KR murderers got up to in the country? I certainly was not there and so my comments are not personal - they are quoting from the book, just one of several factual books on the Cambodian genocide that I have read. Was the academic you mention involved directly during the genocide? No! So he commented merely on hearsay after the event - hearsay that was perhaps fashionable with a certain group of intellectuals but which was totally and factually wrong. This is from a CBS Report. Please read it. Khmer Rouge guards killed babies by battering them against trees under an official policy to ensure the children of the brutal Cambodian regime's victims could never take revenge for their parents' deaths, the group's chief jailer testified Monday. Kaing Guek Eav, alias Duch, said he was to blame for the brutal killing of infants as the commander of the Khmer Rouge's notorious S-21 prison in Phnom Penh during the 1970s. As many as 16,000 men, women and children are believed to have been tortured there before being sent to their deaths. "I am criminally responsible for killing babies, young children and teenagers," Duch, 66, told a U.N.-assisted tribunal . . . "The horrendous images of the babies being smashed against the trees, I didn't recognize it at first," said Duch. But he admitted that after also seeing photographic portraits of children who had been held at the facility, he recalled that such things had happened. Duch said official Khmer Rouge policy dictated that the detained offspring of prisoners at S-21, also known as Tuol Sleng, must be killed to prevent retaliatory action. "There is no gain to keep them, and they might take revenge on you," Duch said, reciting the policy that he said he learned from the regime's former defense minister, Son Sen . . . Duch denied one of the grisly allegations in the prosecutor's indictment: that children of S-21 prisoners were taken from their parents and dropped from third-floor windows to break their necks. Duch told the tribunal that hurling children from windows would have panicked other prisoners, which would have run contrary to his orders. He said prisoners were supposed to be kept in the dark of their destiny to be killed. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/khmer-rouge-baby-killing-recalled-in-court/

I have never seen a contract for an aircraft purchase but assume there must be a clause alowing for delays. But delays of 6 or 7 years? I doubt it. So I would expect Boeing to be fighting yet more lawsuits from airlines to get these costs reimbursed.

I know this "five favourite" theme could get boring. Before it does, can I suggest a five favourite books along with a one sentence (please just one) as to exactly why you like it. Not as easy as movies, I think, if only because whilst we tend to watch favourite movies more than once or twice, reading books more than twice is relatively rare. Not necessarily gay subject matter - any is acceptable. In no particular order. Anyway, here is my selection. Paul Scott: The Raj Quartet I know this is a bit of a cheat because this is a four-book novel, but as a gigantic scenario seen from British and Indian eyes as the British Empire is dying it is utterly riveting. Caroline Alexander: The Endurance - Shackleton's Legendary Antarctic Expedition Surely this tale of a ship in 1914 taking almost a year to sink after getting stuck in the Antarctic ice and the two ensuing incredibly long voyages made in open boats in the world's stormiest seas has to be the 20th century's greatest example of leadership and courage, the World Wars included, the more so when every man who set out on that voyage returned alive - and the book has incredible photographs of the actual journey. Vikram Seth: A Suitable Boy I like getting into long books and at nearly 1,500 pages this one is long, but as a portrait of a more modern India with stunning characterisations and a wholly intriguing subject, I loved it. John Conrnwell: A Thief In The Night - Life And Death In The Vatican Following the sudden death of the 'smiling' John Paul 1 after only 33 days as Pope and the Vatican eventually opening its archives to Catholic scholar John Cornwell to try and dispel all the rumours of skullduggery at the Vatican including murder, his conclusion is far less surprising than the blame he heaps on a multitude of Vatican officials who may well have wanted the Pope dead. Sebastian Faulks: Birdsong - A Novel of Love and War Again far better than the film, very few books have made me weep but this one about an intense love affair, lust and the effect on it of World War 1 for generations had the tears flowing.

Fascinating list of very different movies. Thank you.

I misposted this in Vietnam thread. But seeing the photos of the cakes made my mouth water. Some years ago now a good friend in Chiang Mai took me to a cafe named Love At First Bite. The cakes were excellent. Any cake lover in CNX should seek it out. https://www.chiangmailocator.com/chiang-mai-coffee-shops-bakeries-234:love-at-first-bite

With all respect, I think those reasons are absolute nonsense! They represent propaganda of the worst kind by someone who knew little about what actually happened! I thoroughly recommend you read the harrowing and horrific book "The Gate" by a French ethnologist Francois Bizot who was taken prisoner by the Khmer Rouge. Apart from describing the evils of the Khmer Rouge activities in the fields - would you consider peasants having to murder their babies by battering them against a tree an activity peasants did every day of the week? - he manages to befriend one of his KR captors, a man named Duch. He had been a teacher before joining the KR. Soon he became Chairman of the Tuol Sleng prison camp and was thus responsible for up to 20,000 murders of men, women and children. It is said that only 12 emerged from that prison alive. Mercifully he was unable to destroy the prison's records before fleeing from the advancing Vietnamese. Anyone visiting that former school can now see photos of many of those executed for no reason. Duch was the first member of the KR to be tried and sentenced to 30 years in jail, a term later extended. But he died in 2020. John Le Carre wrote the briliant forward to "The Gate". This short book is indeed worthy of any Le Carre novel and a true picture of what really happened in the killing fields - not someone's guess. Photos of the Tuol Sleng Prison formerly a school and now a museum to the horrors of the Khmer Rouge

I arrived in Hong Kong just as the boat people were fleeing in large numbers from Vietnam and a few from Cambodia. From my apartment window I could see one of the first Vietnamese boats grounded off Lamma island to the west of Hong Kong. No one wanted to go near it until some aid agencies took relief supplies to these poor people who had suffered so much. From then on the Hong Kong government opened its doors to those fleeing these countries, initially in pretty awful refugee camps but later allowing the inhabitants out to work in the Hong Kong community. 1979 was also the first year that the world became aware of the horrors that Pol Pot's government of now renamed Kampuchea had inflicted on its own people. A book I bought that year remains on my shelves and I still refer to it - William Shawcross' shocking and horrific "Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia." For to the power brokers in Washington, Camdodia had been just that - a sideshow to the main war in Vietnam. Just as in Laos, authority from Congress had never been sought or approved, and so it was an illegal series of masive bombings in that blighted country. These so destablised the country and left a power vacuum that Pol Pot's small group and his growing numbers of executioners were quick to fill. Not that Cambodia had been a haven of peace before the American bombers destroyed a good part of it. It was a faction riven country with Prince Norodom Sihanouk as its titular head. What went on prior to the Pol Pot years (my guide always referred to them as such, never to the "war") is of less consquence in this thread; more, as @vinapu writes, it should be about what happened thereafter. Under Sihanouk, Cambodia had been a member of the United Nations since 1955, two years after gaining independence from France. To become a member, a vote of two thirds of the General Assenbly is needed. As its legal government during the Pol Pot years, it retained membership. But being kicked out of a UN seat is no easy matter. It requires a vote of at least 9 out of the 15 members of the Security Council. Perhaps (and this is my guess) because its government following Pol Pot's regime was technically one obtained by an illegal incursion by the Vietnamese, Security Council voting never reached 9 against. In 1979 India did table a proposal that Cambodia's seat should remain vacant. This was voted down.Thus the stain on the United Nations that it retained the Khmer Rouge as the UN representative until 1989. No doubt Mao and China played a role in the machinations of the Security Council as it had backed the Khmer Rouge. But we must remember the United Nations role in stabilising the country. On March 15 1992 it became the first body ever to become the ruler of a UN sovereign territory. From that date, the United Nations Transitional Authority in Cambodia (UNTAC) became the sovereign government of Cambodia. Its achievements during that time were more than significant. 46 UN countries contributed 22,000 personnel incuding 16,000 soldiers to demilitarise the various factions and set in motion the apparatus to enable the country to operate as a nation state. One group that refused to disarm was the Khmer Rouge. The UN also put constraints on the Vietnamese. Strangely perhaps, the ruler of the country during these next 18 months was a Japanese diplomat! Cambodians as a whole were traditionally monarchists and nothing that had happened in their recent history changed that. So in the general election in 1993 with a 90% turnout a new government involving Hun Sen's party and the royalists formed a coalition. The Khmer Rouge had refusd to take part. It was the last free election the country experienced. in 1998 the royalists mounted a coup. They were defeated. Thereafter nothing was left to hinder power-grabbing Hun Sen from taking over 100%. The UN had vertainly failed to tackle corruption with the result that it has become rampant. In 2010 Hun Sen's government passed a law making whistleblowers illegal. He calls a free press "anarchy" and civil society "an agent iof US-backed change".

Currently TG has no less than 3 different business class layouts in its A350 fleet. I suppose chances are that if you book one type, you'll find at the airport that it hs been changed to an older model! With all airlines seething at Boeing's continuing inability to get its new 777X aircraft into production - it still has not been certified and it was supposed to be handed over to Luftahnsa, the launch customer in 2020 - most of those who ordered the aircraft are having to remodel the interior of their older 777s just to keep ahead of the game. The lack of the 777X for fleet upgrades means not only are airlines spending more on fuel and maintenance of older aircraft, the remodelling of the interiors is costing a small fortune. That's why I was able to get a 777 with Cathay Pacific's excellent new Aria Suite from LHR to HKG in mid-March. Who is ultimately going to pay for all these extra costs is one big question? With Emirates and Qatar having placed more than 65% of all orders for the new 777X aircraft, they are paricularly furious. Boeing says it will have one in the air by next year. Emirates Chairman has said he does not expect it to fly commercialy until 2028.

I reckon I was fortunate - to a certain extent. Next door to us was a boy of my age. I am probably around the same vintage as @Londoner and although no-one ever spoke of sex in those days other than in hushed tones and gay men were known as queers and poofs, somehow the two of us discovered sexual pleasures in our mid-teens. It was only the usual schoolboy stuff, but enough for me to realise that my interest was in guys not girls. My neighbour went on to marry and have kids. I spent ten years pretending to have girlfriends when all the time I was lusting after other guys. Eventually I gave up the pretence. Moving to Asia in my late 20s certainly opened up my world to one of beautiful young men and much easier and often amazing sex even though one still had to be somewhat discreet in ome parts of the region. Not in Thailand, though! Thankfully I never had to regret not being able to come out until much later.

Loved "Gosford Park" which was the forerunner for "Downton Abbey" both written by Julian Fellowes. "Happy Together" is another superb movie for which Leslie Cheung was nominated for Best Actor at the Cannes Film Festival. It's tough, gritty gay movie-making but nonetheless a great movie. So dreadfully sad that Leslie suffered from clinical depression and committed suicide at the age of only 46.

I count myself extremely fortunate to have seen him on stage. It was in the early years of the British National Theatre. Its director Sir Laurence Olivier had invited Franco Zeffirelli to direct Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing". Leading the cast were Maggie Smith and her then husband, the magnificent actor Robert Stevens, along with Ian McKellen, Derek Jacobi, Anthony Hopkins, Albert Finney, Michael Gambon, Joan Plowright and Frank Finlay. Truly a pantheon of British acting talent. (I have left out all the Sirs and Dames which titles had not arrived by then! I think only two did not reach those heights: Albert Finney who in 2000 declined the offered knighthood, and Frank Finlay).

Let's also not forget that Hun Sen, the long time Prime Minister of Cambodia following the Vietnam invasion of 1979 had been a member of the Khmer Rouge fighting under its banner for 7 years. It was only in 1977 during internal purges in the Khmer Rouge leadership and long after the atrocites had resulted in the murder of well over a million of its own citizens that Hun Sen defected to the Vietnamese. After the success of the invasion 2 years later, he was appointed Foreign Minister, later becoming Prime Minister in 1985. Refusing to accept the result of the UN backed elections in 1993 in which the opposition party won the majorty of seats, the coalition he out together finally broke down after he orchestrated a coup in 1997. After rigged election followed rigged election he only resigned in 2023 - putting his son in his place. Through violence and corruption he gained considerable wealth and retained power. I suppose that at least he brought the country a degree of stability after the ghastly Pol Pot years. In the year 2000, Singapore's Lee Kwan Yew described him as "utterly merciless and ruthless, and without humane feelings."

I agree. Looking at Emirates 777s it seems to have replaced about 3 1/2 rows of economy seating at 10 abreast with 3 rows of Premium Economy at 8 abreast. 24 seats in place of around 35, yet the price differential is well over double. Still with Emirates, in some of its A380s it has replaced the entire front cabin downstairs with 56 Premium Economy seats. Before the change, that cabin seated 76-88 economy passengers. Even allowing for a bit of nip and tuck, that offers Emirates a great deal more revenue.

That much! Every single one of my gay friends who has got married did so either in registry offices or in another inexpensive location. After all they had known their partners for years and their families and friends all knew each other. There was no need for a special gathering other than a wedding breakfast or dinner for a select few. No doubt you will consider them all cheapskates. To each his own.

With its wars in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, the United States murdered amost 5 million Asians and left generations and countries scarred for life. And all one Secretary of Defense can say is, "We were wrong, terribly wrong." Is that an apology? If so, it is a disgrace! What has the USA done to clear up the unexploded bombs it rained down over officially neutra Laos every 8 minutes of every single day for 9 whole years? The cost to the US Treasury? Around US$44 billion. Let's never forget: this was an illegal war, one kept secret from Congress and never approved by Congress. That war is still not taught in American schools! Is that because the war was against the law in the United States? Were any US officials held to account, court martialed, jailed? Not that I know of. And Laos still suffers today from the estimated 80 million unexploded US ordinance which stil today kills mostly children. A bomb that cost $3 to manufacture now costs $1,000 to locate and destroy. The view in Washington is eerily similar to some other of its other secret wars (i.e. Cambodia): Sorry guys, we bombed the hell out of you with cluster-fuck bombs for 9 years and now you can clear up all the mess we left behind. From 1993 the US has contributed a paltry $200 million towards that clearance in Laos (set against the $44 billion that secret war cost, this is more than a disgrace - it is evil). Now Trump and his acolyte Musk have even halted this aid. As of today, only 1 percent of the uneploded bombs have been cleared. And McNamara has the gall to write, "we acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of this nation." War should never be undertaken on the basis of "thought". Had the USA power brokers had any real clue about South East Asia, had they any experts with real knowledge of the desires of nations to run their own affairs, the wars in Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia would probably never have happened - certainly to the extent they did. As Washington continues to shirk from its responsibility for the weapons it rained over Laos, the USA has never been called to account for these disasters. Yet quite a few US Lao vets are doing their thing in helping make amends. When one named Super realised the enormity of what the US had done, he claimed, "I am appalled. I was ashamed." At least that was more than McNamara had admitted. https://whyy.org/segments/vietnam-veteran-reflects-on-cia-bombing-campaign-in-laos/

Now I understand. But an airline like Cathay Pacific's mileage scheme which plugs into the One World scheme keeps mileage points alive as long as you contribute or purchase miles once every 18 months. With 3 or 4 trips a year to Thailand, I'd assume the mileage would accumulate in order to get at least a free economy ticket. To me, mileage points used for hotel nights are just a waste. If your mileage scheme automatically deletes unused point after a certain period, change the scheme!

Why? I have roughly 60 boarding passes on my phone. The phone automatically stores them and I can not be bothered deleting them! @Olddaddy I'm still waiting to hear why you spend 20,000 points for one night in a hotel that costs less than around Bt. 2,000? That seems a complete waste of points when less than 10 nights @ 20,000 miles ought to get you something like a free business class ticket from Sydney at least as far as Asia - if not Europe.

The full horror started the same day. On 17 April, the day the Khmer forces entered Phnom Penh, all givernment soldiers were rounded up, taken to the Olympic Stadium and immediately executed. I cannot find any evidence that the Khmer Rouge fighters were welcomed with flowers. Indeed, at 7:45 am on the same day the soldiers arrived, loudspeakers ordered everyone in the city to evacuate. The announcement made clear that "anyone who refused to move would be shot dead." The welcoming with flowers seems to have been a piece of propaganda.

Totally agree that Hopkins is one of the great actors. Of all his movies, I would pick one of the Merchant-Ivory classics "Remains of the Day" where he plays an emotionally and sexually repressed bulter opposite Emma Thomson' housekeeper. He plays the role to perfection. We should all be grateful that he moved to the USA. Before then he performed mostly on the British stage with such eminent companies as the National Theatre and the Royal Shakespeare Company. Sadly, at that time, he was known to be a drunk and made life difficult for everyone. SInce 1975 he has been sober.

What to make a msall bet? That area will be being redeveloped by then!!!