Gaybutton

I understand perfectly. I just don't agree with your argument. Yes, random testing is not cost prohibitive and that's what Mark does at Krazy Dragon. But considering the number of boys arrested throughout Sunee Plaza every time there's a raid, I don't think random testing at one bar has much chance of improving anything. Even so, I don't see why Mark should have to pay a single baht to test boys over whom he has no control during their non-working hours. He chooses to do some testing, and I certainly compliment him for that, but unless the other bars start doing the same thing or start testing them all, then I think he's fighting a losing battle and in the end it's an exercise in futility.

Out of sheer curiosity, why? That's what I'm doing and it has been no problem at all. As a matter of fact, I realized there is actually an advantage to it. Every so often we hear stories about someone being ripped off at phony ATMs or by other methods. If you are keeping some of your money in that deposit-only account, the very fact that you have to put in a personal appearance to retrieve it prevents ATM rip-off possibilities.

Your idea of what is and is not cost prohibitive is a little different from mine. If it costs Mark 1000 baht per month to test 10 boys, that means 100 baht per employee tested. He tests 10 at random. Considering the number of employees in the average bar, then if all of them were tested once or twice per month, now the cost of those tests are running into hundreds of dollars. That sure seems cost prohibitive to me. I don't visualize very many bar owners voluntarily coughing up anywhere near as much as that, and I don't think they should have to in the first place. Considering the number of boys who do abuse drugs, then I would agree that they should be tested, but I don't agree that the bars should be the ones to foot the bill for it. I believe the police should supply the drug test kits. Between lack of customers, normal business operating costs, paying off corrupt police, etc, if you start adding drug tests to the cost of running a bar, then soon there won't be very many bars.

Yes, but those are boys who don't go off with anybody at all. I'm talking about boys who do go off. I'm interested in knowing if anyone has ever been rejected by those boys.

Has that ever actually happened to you? I've never had that happen and I don't personally know anyone who was ever rejected, although I've had my share of boys who are all over you in the bar and then duds once you get them in the sack.

Blue. They're not quite as common as others. I've seen them only in shopping centers such as Carrefour and Central. I don't think I've ever seen them in other types of locales, such as connected to a 7-Eleven.

That's strange. A friend of mine used his ATM card at the very same place and he was charged the 150 baht fee. Maybe it depends on which bank is the issuing bank. Who knows? It beats me, that's for sure. I guess all anyone can do is try. Maybe some will be lucky and some won't. I wish I had some idea of how to figure out which cards are going to be charged and which won't.

Me too. I see nothing attractive about piercings at all. "I had nothing better to do today, so I thought I'd have some holes punched through me." Some of these guys pierce anything! I'm waiting for pierced assholes, with possibly pierced hemorrhoids as an added touch. That's probably next. I also don't find tattoos attractive. I have never understood why anyone would permanently, or even temporarily, deck their bodies with images they wouldn't be caught dead putting in a frame an hanging on a wall. I've come to be able to handle and tolerate a little bit of piercing and a little bit of tattoos, but I would be a whole lot happier if they had neither.

I'm glad you said that. Generosity is one thing, but completely spoiling someone is quite another. I'm glad to know that you haven't lost your mind . . . well at least not completely . . .

The last bank that had not been charging the 150 baht fee for foreign ATM withdrawals was UOB. Unfortunately, they too have started charging the fee. As far as I know, now every bank in Thailand is charging the 150 baht fee. It's really a shame they are doing this. I used to recommend forgetting about traveler's checks and just using your ATM card. But since all the banks are going to charge you a 150 baht fee, along with whatever your own bank charges when you do a foreign transaction, it looks like your best bet is going to be coming to Thailand with traveler's checks. That's bad news because now, unless you opt for paying the fees, you're going to have to go to banks or exchange kiosks, during their operating hours, and exchange traveler's checks. That's a pain because you'll have to physically go to the bank and very likely have to wait your turn. Meanwhile there are ATMs virtually everywhere you look. I don't understand why the banks have all done this, especially at a time when tourism is already way down. Don't the banks realize that while they'll take in more money when foreigners use ATMs, they'll also lose quite a bit because a great many travelers are going to take steps to avoid using ATMs at all? So, there we are. It's traveler's checks or the ATM fees. The only other alternative that I can think of is to open a Thai bank account if you don't already have one, deposit traveler's checks into the account, and use their ATM card. The problem is, if you don't already hold a Thai bank account, it's getting more and more difficult to open one on anything other than a non-immigrant visa. Oh well, for years I have been trying to convince people to open a Thai bank account while you still can, but many never have bothered. So, once again, if you expect to make multiple trips to Thailand, I urge you to open a Thai bank account during your next trip . . . if you still can.

5k a week!?!?! How on earth much do you normally give this boy?

What did you have for dessert . . . ?

I do the same. For me it doesn't even have to be a lie. A "red light" is enough for me. I learned the hard way too. Maybe I'm going to the other extreme now, but I have become a believer in the Richard Burk (owner of the Amor Restaurant) Philosophy: "If you want love in Thailand, rent it." For the present, that's the way I feel. Maybe some day that will change. I don't reject anything, but I have definitely become very cautious, perhaps over cautious. In your case, yes. But you know as well as I do that you are one of the extremely rare exceptions and one of the luckiest men in Thailand. I wish your luck could apply to all, but it just doesn't seem to work that way for very many of us.

I don't know how others feel about it, but for me this thread is one of the most significant we have ever had on this board. When GT wrote, "I think of one very good friend who I told over and over to move on from his 'lover' as he was always lying. He did not heed my advice for years. We do that when we are ready to do it. Not really before," he could very well have been referring to me. Maybe I am the one about whom he was referring. I was being lied to, and every one of my friends could see it but me. In retrospect I think I saw it just as clearly as everyone else, but my problem was refusing to accept it. It took a long time, too long really, for me to finally realize that I had to break away or let that person ruin my life. It came down to those two choices. To this very day it is still a struggle for me, and I'm not sure I was ever truly ready to end it, but nevertheless I knew it had to be done. I learned the hard way to put my emotions aside and think with my head. But that's not always easy. To this day I still feel terribly guilty about breaking it off with him, and I know damned well I have nothing at all I should feel guilty about. Welcome to human emotions. That person is out of my life, but he'll never be out of my heart, no matter how hard I try, even with the knowledge that he had become tantamount to a cancer on my life. One of the easiest things in the world is to give someone else advice. One of the most difficult things is to take it.

I haven't been there in ages, but the A-Bomb bar in Pattaya had a reputation for muscle boys, although I don't think it was ever similar to the Tawan bar in Bangkok. Anyone been to A-Bomb recently?

You know what I would consider doing if I was into the Jomtien Complex scene and moving to Thailand? I'd rent it and live there. 12000 baht per month isn't bad at all and I'd be right right in the heart of Jomtien Complex, easy walking distance to baht buses, the beach, and the night life, along with boys galore just a few steps outside my door. It wouldn't take very much to convert it to a livable apartment. Sounds good to me . . .

You know what happens when you give a second chance? You end up giving a third chance. Then a fourth and a fifth chance.

You're far more generous than I. I wouldn't even give it that much. They took an excellent movie and absolutely ruined it with one of the worst remakes I've ever seen. The original was so good and so much fun to watch. The remake is just terrible. The plot is ridiculous and there are no memorable characters. Even Denzel Washington and John Travolta couldn't save it. The movie started off quite well, I thought, but quickly turned into a disappointment. On the other hand, the original starred Walter Matthau, Robert Shaw, Martin Balsam, Jerry Stiller, and Hector Elizondo, along with perfect characters in their various roles. That combination is awfully hard to beat. That's the one to watch, if you can find it. I'm lucky. I have the DVD. If you've never seen it, find it and watch it. Without spoiling it for anyone who has never seen it, I think the final few seconds of the movie includes one of the most memorable moments in movie history. But this remake gets a major 'thumbs down' and a 'forget it' from me, that's for sure!

It doesn't sound like a misunderstanding to me. Also, I would not assume this is the first time this boy has lied or, at best, misunderstood. Based on GT's story, this boy knew exactly what he was doing and if GT sticks with him, then to my mind that's like having a strong premonition, but still boarding the Titanic.

Loose. "One time I met Toulouse-Lautrec. I gave him a belt. I said I hope that belt's not too tight Toulouse." - Rip Taylor

Who is? The owner or the boy?

You misread it. It said "for a totally disappointing, miserable time . . ." VERY CHEAP! I haven't gotten many calls, so I had to fire my secretary. I attribute the lack of calls to the low season and poor exchange rates . . .

bullSHIT, you can't! You can buy mine, and it's for sale rather cheaply . . .

Folks, please do me a favor and include the http:// when posting a link. The link won't work without it and I keep having to go into posts and add the http:// so the link will work for you. This won't work: www.gaythailand.com This does work: http://www.gaythailand.com

Ok, ya got me! I should have clarified that the boy I'm talking about is a freelancer who works without salary at a beer bar, fully clothed. I don't know whether that makes a difference. I also don't know at what point he explains that he doesn't go off with people. However, he is not a go-go boy and he is not paid anything by the bar (although every one the bars get an off fee for any freelancers that leave the bar with a farang). On that basis I would say the choice is his, but I would be annoyed too if I had spent money on drinks at the bar, spent time with the boy, and gave him a tip only to find out at that point that he won't go off with me. On the other hand, if he is up front with customers, before they start spending money, then I would say he is being fair. Meanwhile, in all of the bars there is nothing that forces a boy to go off with a farang, even in the go-go bars. If the boy doesn't want to go off with a customer, that's his choice and nobody forces him. It's rare for a boy to make that choice, but I've seen it happen with particularly gross customers and farang known to be very cheap when it comes to tips. There are even occasions when a boy has no choice but to refuse an off. I don't see this happening very often anymore, but not too many years ago it was quite common for a farang to literally reserve a boy. He would let the bar know which boy he wants and what time he'll be there. That obligated the boy to wait for the farang to show up. If the farang failed to show up within about 20 minutes of the appointed time, now the boy was free to do what he wanted to do again. That practice is rather rare now because there were too many instances in which a farang had reserved a boy, but didn't show up. Meanwhile the boy had customers who wanted to take him off, but had to refuse because he had been reserved. Nowadays the boys want the bird-in-the-hand, so the reservation system is pretty much a thing of the past. That was back in the days when most bars had plenty of customers every night and boys were taken off quite regularly. But now, because of a lack of customers, most boys consider themselves very fortunate if someone takes them off two or three times a month. Only a few years ago many boys could count on two or three times a week, or even more if they were popular.