Gaybutton

Ok, have it your way. Violate the laws to your heart's content. I think I'll stick with obeying the laws, whether I'm in the USA, Thailand, or the moon.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible for a running clock that was incorrectly set in the first place never to be right at all.

I hijacked the thread? I'm the one who started this thread in the first place. The thread evolved into what it is now long before my post. In any case, while it's true that the USA can't touch you as far as physically arresting you on foreign soil, there's still plenty they can do. Revocation of your passport, for starters. The last time I was in the US embassy I personally witnessed a man having a big argument with the US Citizens Services people. He had gone to the embassy merely to have pages added to his passport. When they inspected his passport they discovered he was on a list of "deadbeat dads" who had not been paying child support. They refused to return his passport to him. He was told he would not get his passport back until he settles the debt and can prove it to the satisfaction of the embassy. I was right there and overheard the whole thing. The USA can't enforce its laws on a citizen living outside the country? Tell that to the man whose passport was withheld. He's going to have a very interesting time when he needs to do his 90 day address report, renew his visa, or do anything that requires showing a passport, including bank transactions or even checking in to a hotel. The point is, if you truly believe that as a USA citizen you can live in a foreign country, disregard USA laws, and do so with impunity, then the best I can tell you is go ahead and try. I hope you won't have to find out the hard way just how big a mistake you're making.

My friend, where I come from that's called rationalizing. You say it doesn't mean you're a "slave" to laws of a country you're not living in. No? If you are a USA citizen, that's exactly what it means. You can come up with whatever argument you want, with whatever logic you want, but that won't alter the fact that as a US citizen, you are subject to US law, even when in foreign countries. When you're in a foreign country, now you're subject to both sets of laws. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, or whether that's acceptable to you or not. That's simply the way it is. When you violate the laws, now you're at risk of arrest and prosecution. So, you have a choice. You can obey the laws or you can violate the laws and guess for yourself the degree of risk you're taking and whether whatever it is you want to do is worth the risk. If it makes you feel any better, I also don't think the USA is right to impose its own laws about age of consent if you are living in a country in which the age of consent is less than 18 years old. However, until the USA decides to change that law, you are subject to it whether you like it or not and I'd obey that law if I were you.

Regarding the USA, I tend to look more at what does happen, rather than what could happen. As far as I know, what does happen is that the USA goes after people who travel to foreign countries and engage in sex with children, kiddie porn, and that sort of thing. I know of no cases, not one, in which the USA prosecuted anyone for having sex with people age 18 and over when visiting a foreign country. Certainly there are countries where the age of consent is age 16. According to my understanding of USA law, a person can be prosecuted for sex with someone of that age. The obvious question is do they prosecute for that? If the USA has been prosecuting people for sex with those who have reached age of consent within their own country, I am not familiar with any such cases. That doesn't mean there aren't any. It simply means I don't personally know of any.

I know you said you didn't take any boys off, but did you happen to check what the current off fees are in these bars? Also, I've heard that the Phuket boys expect a "tip" of at least 1500 baht, even for short time. Is that true?

"Researchers announced today that saliva causes stomach cancer. But only when swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time." - George Carlin

I volunteered, but I couldn't get a work permit.

Thank you, but Confucius say "He who come up with idea, get to start new thread himself."

From what I understand, there already are plans for several people to gather at the Corner Bar in Sunee Plaza to watch.

If there will be a lot of new faces, I haven't seen very many yet. Several of the boys who went home told me they'll be back around the 10th of the month. I'm going to guess that there will be a good number of "new boys" coming to town to seek their fortune. Even with the tourist numbers down, the number of gay farang seems to be rapidly increasing. The gay beach area today was quite crowded with farang, although there were very few boys other than the regulars. Others may come and go, but the gays keep the faith! I think the boys will too. Coming to the bar scene, getting away from the watchful eyes of parents, a chance to experience the big city life, the prospect of finding a sugar-daddy are all temptations that are hard to resist when the alternative is a dead end job that pays practically nothing, if they can even find such a job, or working like a dog on the rice farm. I think there will be plenty who decide to give it a try. We'll see.

That's pretty much the way it works in Thailand now, isn't it? Virtually all of the prostitution arrests are arrests of farang who were accused of engaging in sex with someone under-age. Nothing ever happens to the prostitute, only the customer. I don't have an opinion (that's a first!) as to whether that's right or wrong, good or bad. That's simply the way it is.

Why would you not want to wear a helmet? From the way I read your post, you were more concerned about the police than you were about your own personal safety. I'm sorry you had troubles, but I'm also glad. Maybe next time you'll know better.

The following appears in the BANGKOK POST: _____ Pub Operated Illegally Owner, Others Facing Charges of Flouting Law By: MANOP THIP-OSOD and APIRADEE TREERUTKUARKUL Owner Wisuk Setsawat and others responsible for the Santika pub, which caught fire on Thursday causing the loss of 59 lives, will face legal action for admitting underage revelers, letting its insurance lapse and not having an operating license. Deputy national police chief Pol Gen Jongrak Chuthanont said the owner of Santika on Ekamai road applied for an operating licence in 2004, but the request was rejected because construction was unfinished at the time. The owner then asked the Administrative Court to temporarily approve the operation, which it did. Deputy city clerk Wanwilai Phromlakhano said the pub building received a construction permit when it was built in 2003. However, approval of the operating licence rested with police, who were in dispute with the owner of the building. Ms Wanwilai did not elaborate. Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai Deeprasertwit, commander of the Metropolitan Police Bureau's Division 5, said Santika was not insured. Its insurance coverage expired four months ago and was not extended as the pub lease contract was about to expire. As the insurance had expired, police have ruled out the possibility of arson. However, experts have yet to conclude whether the fire started by accident, Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai said. Police were waiting for Santika pub owner Wisuk Setsawat to show up for questioning. Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai said he did not know when Mr Wisuk would turn up and added that the pub owner suffered a respiratory problem in the fire. Mr Wisuk was hospitalised but police said his whereabouts were not immediately known.Police will call Chris Pongpithaya, the owner of the pub building, and Suriya Ritrabue, the pub manager, for interrogation instead. Worapot Inthulak, chief of the Watthana district office, said an early investigation attributed the fire to fireworks set off inside the building during the Santika's farewell party that night. He said the fireworks set ablaze materials inside the building. The fire killed 59 people and injured at least 243. Twenty-one bodies, 14 of which had been taken to Chulalongkorn hospital, still could not be identified. Nantana Sitthisak, head of Chulalongkorn hospital's forensics department, said six of the 14 bodies were burned beyond recognition. An autopsy report shows all were Asian women. Another two days to a week would be needed to complete the body identification process, she said. A body identification centre has been set up at the Thong Lor police station. Pol Lt-Gen Danai Wongthai, chief of the Police Forensic Science Department, said identification would have to rely on DNA tests. Some of the dead's relatives filed complaints yesterday. Yai Waythita from Pattani said her younger brother who died in the Santika fire always carried his ID card and 10,000 baht in cash with him, but both were missing. Patthida Phosri, who lost her husband Arthithep, said she had first seen the body of her husband wearing a gold necklace weighing five-baht and two gold-framed amulets, but the valuables later disappeared. Another Bangkok bar caught fire early yesterday, but there were no casualties. The four-storey Rawhide bar on Soi Cowboy off Sukhumvit Soi 23 caught fire after hours. A faulty electric connection to decorations on a Christmas tree was blamed. The mezzanine floor and ceiling tiles on the first floor were damaged but no one was injured because the fire happened after the pub had closed. Like the Santika, the Rawhide bar had been full of customers on New Year's Eve, but was very quiet in the early hours of yesterday.

And we wonder about Thai logic. I wonder if the Vikings would have approved of this legislation. I wonder how the goddess Freya would have felt about it. It just amazes me that here we are, now in 2009, and there are still modern western countries that want to legislate what consenting adults can do sexually in the privacy of their bedrooms. It's frustrating when these sanctimonious pseudo-moralists decide the rest of the world has to do their bidding, even when it comes to sex between consenting adults. Quisling would have loved this one. Well, get ready for a good laugh. You know that sooner or later one of the people behind such legislation is going to get caught with his own pants down. In the joke above, I wouldn't be surprised if such a scenario had a slightly different punchline: Defendant: "No, your honour. I gave him money so his poor family could buy a water buffalo. He thanked me by giving me a massage." Judge: "Case dismissed!" Defendant: "By the way, your honor, he did ask me to give you his regards and said he looks forward to seeing you again."

Why not? Some of us are Thailand residents and can produce all kinds of documentation to prove it, such as long-term visas, proof of address, bills in our name received by post, residence certificate, rental contracts, Thai driving license, etc. I'm a Thailand resident and I have all the above documentation, and more. I'd like to see someone tell me all about how I'm not a Thailand resident. Some people, especially the ones who have no clue what they're talking about, but love to try to pass themselves off as someone who does, try to convince everyone else that you're going to be treated unfairly almost automatically because you're a farang. Especially, if you are driving and are involved in an accident with a Thai driver, then it's automatically your fault. That is simply not true. While it does happen once in a while, my experience has been that in most cases I am treated quite fairly, often with better treatment than the average Thai would receive. I've never been treated any worse than a Thai would expect. Automatically your fault in case of an accident? Not true. I've been involved in minor accidents more than once. Each time the police determined that the Thai driver was at fault, not me. Highway police stopping and fining drivers because they are farang? Also not true. Yes, I've been stopped and shaken down. They have also stopped other cars as well, usually half a dozen or more. The drivers are Thai. They get fined too. I have also been stopped, had my papers checked, and sent on my merry way without incident. I do feel I have been treated unfairly sometimes. I was treated even more unfairly and a lot more often in the USA.

The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: _____ NEW LAW CRIMINALISES NORWEGIANS BUYING SEX IN PATTAYA A Norwegian law which came into effect 1st January 2009 makes it a crime for Norwegians to buy, but not to sell, sex in Norway and abroad. The implications for Norwegian citizens engaging in such nefarious activities in Pattaya are still unclear. The main target for the legislation is the streets of Norway’s capital, Oslo, where the Norwegian authorities say they want to stamp out prostitution by targeting clients rather than prostitutes. Norwegian citizens caught paying for prostitutes at home or abroad could face a hefty fine or a six-month prison sentence. The Norwegian Minister Of Justice, Knut Storberget, has stated that all Norwegian sex clients should now be wary and has made it clear that the law also applies to Norwegians purchasing sexual favours outside of the country. It will be difficult to prosecute, he said, but not impossible. The Norwegian authorities have managed to punish pedophiles who have paid to have sex with children in Thailand and will be able to prosecute “normal” sex clients in the same way, he added. On the evening of the 1st January PDN decided to gauge the reaction to the new law among Norwegian visitors in Pattaya. I chose Kåre’s Party Bar on Pattaya’s second road, a beer bar popular among Norwegian tourists who make up 90% of the bar’s clientele. I asked Terje, the co-owner of the bar, if there had been any reaction from his customers to the new law, having already ascertained that his bar was not in the business of procuring women for sexual services. He said the law had long been a popular theme of discussion but no-one took it seriously. He suggested Norwegian authorities should put their own house in order before persecuting its citizens abroad. He also wondered how the authorities planned to enforce the law in Thailand. Would Norway be sending undercover agents to gather evidence? Would the Thai Police cooperate? The law also specifically defines the sexual activities it covers. These include payment for sexual intercourse, physical contact between exposed genitalia, one or two-way masturbation or touching someone’s private parts or breasts. “Payment” is defined as the exchange of money, or payment in kind, including the giving of flowers and gifts. Whilst talking to Terje he asked several of his customers, jokingly : ”Have you broken the law today?” to which some responded with a look of bewilderment. As a parting comment I suggested he print the question on t-shirts and make a fortune selling them in his bar. To which he gave me a wry smile, but unfortunately no offer of a commission…. "Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?" - George Carlin

I'm glad they all had such a good laugh at your expense. Really funny . . . watching a frightened man being attacked by a vicious dog. Too bad the dog wasn't able to get you and start tearing you apart. Then they all could have gone into hysterics. I suppose if it was a Chihuahua going after you like that, I would have thought it was funny, but a large dog that meant business . . . I fail to see the funny part.

I don't see any reason to be opposed to it. To me, it's just like the Super Bowl. If there is a party somewhere and it's something that interests you, then go. If it isn't, then why would anyone object to it? Simply don't go. What's the problem?

Didn't the driver have anything to say about why he didn't help you? Unless he was blind, he had to have realized what was going on. You're lucky. I'll bet one of the things nobody on the trip anticipated was the possibility of being attacked by a crazed dog.

I don't know for sure, but my guess is that the police are not directly involved at all until after sex takes place. This is only a guess on my part, so don't take this as fact, but I believe a boy like this allows himself to be picked up by the farang, has sex with him somewhere, and then either of two scenarios take place: Either the boy demands more money from the farang and threatens to go to the police if he doesn't get it, or he takes the "tip" money the farang gives him, thanks the farang, and then goes to the police because he gets more money as a paid informant. I could be way off base here, but to me it makes perfect sense from the boy's point of view. Here he is, a street urchin, likely ridden with ya-ba, and street-smart enough to seduce an unsuspecting farang who is expecting to have sex with the boy, pay him the usual "tip" amount, and that's the end of it. It seems that the average farang prefers to pay as little as possible and the boy knows that if he turns in the farang, he gets paid informant money. Nothing happens to him at all. He's right back out in the streets seeking his next victim. Meanwhile, he just destroyed the farang's life and couldn't care less. Right or wrong, that's the scenario I envision. For whatever reason, it is extremely rare for a farang to end up arrested when he takes a boy from a bar, even when the boy is under-age. But it's a different story when picking up an under-age street urchin. Just why it works this way goes beyond me, but that seems to be the case. To my mind, given the possible consequences, if you're out there knowingly taking under-age boys for sex, then the cheese slipped off your cracker a long time ago . . . "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves . . ." - William Shakespeare

One question: If she goes any time soon, will the movie about her life star Maggie Smith or Judi Dench?

It came to him in a dream. He might have gotten it from the following, but his dreams are more reliable: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000008143

GaySacGuy is much more qualified than any of us to answer those kinds of questions, but I've heard that more people die in fires because of smoke and toxic fume inhalation than from being burned. You can die from smoke inhalation, panic stampedes, being burnt alive, or other causes, but none would be a pleasant way to go, that's for sure.

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Survivors Say Fireworks Lit on Stage By The Nation Survivors of the tragic Santika Pub fire recounted that they saw fireworks lit on the stage before the blaze started, leading to a stampede. A patron, who identified herself as Fah, said she and two friends arrived at the Santika Pub at 10 pm and by the time it was already packed with customers. She said it might be his luck that the pub was nearly full with about 500 customers, causing him and friends to be stand near the exit. The customers were packed inside for the farewell party of the pub, in an event titled "New Year Goodbye Santika" she said. She saw many customers on the second floor of the pub. Fah recounted that he saw a group of singers went up on the stage at nearly 1 am and he saw fireworks being lit up to create some effects. "I believe the fireworks caught fire on the ceiling and spread quickly," Fah said. "At first, I thought it was an effect, which looked like real thing. Then, someone shouted "fire, fire" and panic broke out and people ran for their life. "It's my luck that I and friends were standing near the exit so we could quickly leave and survive." Pongsiri Wongseng, 28, said he and his sister joined the farewell and countdown party after hearing that the pub would cease operation after the party. He said he, his girlfriend and his sisters as well as her friends arrived at the pub in a group of seven and they gather for music in front of the stage. Pongsiri said he saw fire shot up on the stage, causing fire at foam which was used as props on the ceiling. He said the fire spread very fast and his girlfriend shouted to others that fire broke out, leading to turmoil. "Everybody ran outside and the situation was very chaotic," he said. "I jump-kicked at the glass in front of the pub. I made small hole and I don't know how could I get through the hole because I a big guy." He said he later worried about his girlfriend and sister, who were later rescued by rescue workers. He said his girlfriend suffered from a burn on her chest and hip and fainted out and rushed to the Camillian Hospital. His sister also suffered from minor burns.