Gaybutton

I believe it depends on the individuals involved in the relationship. If an open relationship is acceptable to both parties, that's fine. If it isn't, then the relationship won't be a happy one if one wants absolute fidelity and the other does not. Sometimes both parties want fidelity. I do believe it is unrealistic to expect someone in his late teens and early twenties to confine his fidelity to someone two to three times his age, especially if the "farang" is only in Thailand for short durations throughout the year. If the boy wants sex with others or if you want sex with others, and you are both willing to do that in a way in which both parties are comfortable, then the relationship has a much better chance of working in the long run. Regarding why some people don't mind the boy having sex with others as long as it does not involve another "farang," I see no reason why anyone should have to justify that feeling. If it makes the "farang" unhappy, it's going to make him unhappy whether he justifies it on a message board or not. If the boy having sex with other "farang" is something you cannot tolerate, then you're in the wrong relationship if that's what the boy wants to do. Whatever it is that makes both parties happy should be discussed, established, and agreed upon before entering into the relationship. Once you've done that, if you're lucky the boy might even adhere to what he has agreed to do.

Think whatever you want. You merit no apology from me and you won't get one. Old, yes. Fat, yes. Unwashed, no. If you can't figure out that I use that as a joke, then you've got a problem. I also did not say anything at all about how much you do or do not pay. I have no idea how much you pay. Whether you pay or not, and no matter how young and good looking you may be, if you "off" a boy then your age and looks do not equal "I don't have to pay as much as people who are older and don't look as good as me." I also appreciate your assertion that I'm trying to dictate to others what they should pay about as much as you appreciate my posts. I've already said that I'm not in a position to dictate anything to anyone. In the post directly above, we've got one person telling us we ought to be comparing how much to tip these boys to what people pay for food or whether they use their frequent flier miles. Sorry, but I don't buy any of that. To me, the bottom line is that these boys are the reason most gay "farang" come to Thailand at all. And yet we get post after post from people trying to justify giving them as little as possible. Personally, I do think that's cheap and I also think it really stinks. So yes, you're doggone right I'm going to say it's cheap. You, my friend, can think what you want and pay whatever you can get away with.

Trying to say I'm dictating how much you have to pay is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not in a position to dictate anything. If you want to be cheap, there's nothing much I can do about it, is there? You might at least admit that you want to get by with giving these boys as little as possible while satisfying you're own personal lust. Like I said, try any which way you want to try to justify it, but from where I sit it's nothing but giving yourself an excuse to be cheap and being proud of yourself for it.

The baht has appreciated once again and as of noon today the exchange rates are as follows: US dollar: 34.91 Euro: 45.925 British Pound: 67.21 Australian dollar: 27.1025 Canadian dollar: 29.5325

There are flights to Phuket from Bangkok every hour and several airlines have service between the two cities, so it should not be a problem for you. You also should not have to leave the main airport. Most domestic flights are still operating out of Suvarnabhumi.

Short time is when you and the boy go to your hotel room, take care of whatever it is you brought him there for, and then he leaves. Long-time is overnight. It's hard to be more precise about it. You don't determine his tip by clicking a stopwatch and timing how long he's been with you. If you go to breakfast, offer him breakfast too, for crying out loud. If he wants it. fine. If not, give him his money and send him on his way. If you want him to stick with you, that calls for a new arrangement. How much should you pay for a massage? If he comes to your room to give it to you, then I would think he ought to be paid the same amount you would pay for short time. If it is a boy you have "offed" and taken to your room, then if he gives you a massage along with everything else, and if it's a good one and lasts around a half hour or so, then I'd increase his tip by 200 baht. If it's just a short and sweet massage, then that's part of the "package" and I wouldn't see a need for a tip increase. Something that puzzles me, and I have written about this before, is that sex with these boys is the primary reason a great many "farang" come to Thailand in the first place, and yet many want to give these boys the least amount of money they can get away with. "Don't give him 1000 baht. Give him 600 or 700 baht," as if the few hundred extra baht is going to cause these people to go into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, these same people spend big bucks on the airfare, stay in hotels these boys could never afford, eat expensive dinners, drink as if Prohibition begins again the next day, but they get all bent out of shape if they think they're over-tipping these boys. To me, no matter how people try to justify it, it all boils down to being cheap.

Let's not forget that we're talking about Thai boys. I don't know why people are writing as if manipulation, lying and cheating is limited to Thai boys. I rarely have ever met any boy at all, Thai or otherwise, who doesn't do the same thing, and that probably includes most of us when we were that age. What did you expect? We even have so-called adults who post right on these message boards who sometimes are caught lying and cheating with the same immaturity. So, what's the big surprise about it?

To me, that says it all right there. Now he is calling you a liar too. Sounds like a true ingrate to me. Ask him if thinks he's going to get a better offer today. I would tell him you don't care much whether he thinks you're a liar or not. He's the one coming to you for money and you want to know how much it will cost. I would tell him you're not about to simply take his word for it. Tell him you're willing to get a neutral party to contact the hospital and ask. If that's not good enough for him, too bad. It's your money, not his, and you have every right in the world to decide how it is to be spent and every right in the world to check it out. If that bothers him, the I suggest telling him it's been nice knowing him, but he'll have to go elsewhere for cash.

Whichever version of the My Life story is correct, that's kind of secondary to what took place that night isn't it? Wowpow had it right when he said to carry your passport, or at least an acceptable copy, for the time being so that you won't end up having problems in case of another raid. That's what I'm doing and I rarely go to the bars in the first place. I can't guarantee it, of course, but I think if the end of the month comes without further raids, then it ought to be safe to leave your passport in your hotel room again.

There's a very simple solution to that: Find an orphan who is also an only child.

People say I'm a dirty old man. Damned right! And I'll be a dirty old man 'till I'm a dead old man. -- Redd Foxx

Perhaps his problems, yes. I can't speak for others, but I didn't work my butt off all my life to end up coming to Thailand to start supporting an entire family. The problem is that once you let it get started, there is no end to it. There is always something else, someone else sick, or some other emergency, whether real or contrived, and the first place the family looks for help is the inside of your wallet. It can get awfully difficult to refuse and the real problems start once you've had enough of it and won't do any more. If you are willing and have the financial resources to take care of the boy's family problems, fine. Personally, I can't afford it It's a tough decision, especially if it's a genuine life or death decision, but if you make the decision to pay for any family problems, then you better be prepared to continue doing the same thing for the rest of your life, until your relationship ends, or until your money runs out, whichever comes first. If you prefer not to be a living ATM for the boy's family, then you need to make that crystal clear from the outset of your relationship. If you don't, then sooner or later those kinds of problems are going to start and then, at best, it will put a strain on your relationship if you refuse. More likely it will cause enough of a rift in your relationship to inevitably end it.

In my opinion, if a boy starts telling you all about the problems his family is having, and all of them are having problems or the boy probably wouldn't be working as a go-go boy in the first place, then I would tell him you're sorry to hear it and then change the subject. If he persists in trying to gain your sympathy, meaning gaining your money, then I would say something like, "And this is my problem because . . . ." and let him finish the sentence. You're probably better off simply moving on to the next boy and his set of problems.

An interesting letter-to-the-editor appears in this week's PATTAYA MAIL. I'll let you read the article for yourself. If you are someone who uses hotel safes, I'd make sure to read this one if I were you . . . http://www.pattayamail.com/current/letters.shtml#hd1

How do people like these come up with this kind of idea in the first place? When you get right down to it, I wonder how people like that get to be people like that. The following appears in the PATTAYA CITY NEWS: (click the link for photos) http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_05_03_50_2.htm _____ Two Burmese Men Arrested and Charged with Abduction A fascinating case now from the Pattaya Immigration Office in Soi 5, Jomtien Beach. Police Colonel Itipon, the Superintendent of the Office received information from a small hill tribe in the North of Thailand of a potential case of abduction involving two Burmese men who would bring these poor tribesmen to Sattahip for work but would not allow them to return to their home until a payment of 10,000 Baht is received, at which point the laborers are free to return to their homes. There were also allegations that the laborers were kept in appalling conditions and would only receive food once a day. Immigration Officers received details of the location of a campsite in Samaer San in Sattahip District and arranged to make a payment of 40,000 Baht to released 4 of the workers. What the suspects were not aware of was that the payment was made by an undercover officer used marked bank notes. As soon as the transaction took place, officers swooped and arrested Mr. Surai and his son. A total of 21 laborers including 1 female were found in locked rooms, they consisted of both Thai and Burmese Nationals. The two Burmese men have been charged with abduction and are awaiting a court appearance.

My information came from someone I know quite well, who was there, was an eyewitness to the whole thing, who had his own passport checked, and would have no reason to give me erroneous information. The same was told to me by two other people. Not that I don't believe you, but if you can suggest a better way I should have checked, I'm all ears . . .

Apparently, for whatever reasons, they blocked it for only a few hours. It's back online for me too. However, I remember when they first started blocking the gay web sites, sometimes they would be blocked and sometimes they would be open. We'll see if it happens with YouTube as well.

I'm sure there must be a really logical reason for it too. Until a few hours ago, I could access YouTube any time I wished. As a matter of fact, I was using YouTube just a few hours ago. Guess what . . . now it's blocked!

Unfortunately, sometimes the whole thing is ruined when the boy starts trying to negotiate how much he'll get. You're right, that takes the joy and fun out of the whole thing. I know of one boy that works the beach and he's all over the potential customer and as lovey-dovey as it gets while still at the beach, making the potential customer feel as if he's about to have the experience of his life. Then, as soon as he and his customer get to the hotel room, he starts rattling off what he'll do and how much he expects to be paid for it. If a boy ever did that to me, he'd find his butt out the door and he'd be lucky to get even taxi fare. Don't forget, the amount the boy receives is considered to be a tip. People have to judge for themselves how much to tip for lousy service or no service at all. I know of another beach boy who happens to be very well built. I've had more than one person tell me that when they get to the hotel room he just lies there and does absolutely nothing. He expects you to service him. I think the smart thing to do is to let the boy know what you expect him to do and how much you're willing to give him for it before taking him "off." Doing that should avoid most potential problems that commonly occur and ruins the whole thing. If the boy is really good, then I'd give him more than I said I would. If he is lousy, I would still tip him the amount I said I would, but that would be the last time I'd ever take him. If he doesn't do what he agreed to do, or does it for about five seconds and that's the end of it, then he would get less than I told him he'd get and I'd let him know why. I also think that several people posting on this thread write as if they are mad as hell. I don't know why, but they sure come across that way. I think it is a mistake to turn the whole experience into a money issue. It should be an enjoyable experience for both the "farang" and the boy without worrying so much as to whether you should give him 800 baht or 1000 baht. Some of these people sound as if they would "off" a boy and essentially say, "Ok, now we're in the hotel room. Gimme my fuckin' blow job, make it good, and then get the hell out of here!" If that's your idea of a good time, so be it. Personally, I prefer that everyone ends up happy and the boy would be glad to go "off" with you again instead of having to think, "Oh no! Not this guy again."

To the best of my knowledge gay marriages are not legally recognized in Thailand, however many Buddhist temples will perform the ceremony and you can at least be married in the eyes of the religion, but the marriage will have no legal status of any kind.

Ok, here is what I can confirm: The raids did take place as Panai posted. The raids occurred in Pattayaland. I have no confirmation of anything occurring at all in Sunee Plaza. Both the Panorama Pub and the My Life for Happiness bars were raided and the customers were required to show their passports. I have no information regarding Serene. Both bars were told they have the wrong license. The license they have entitles them to remain open until 11:00 PM, but not until 1:00 AM. The foreigners who had no passport with them were taken to the street and given a stern warning, but no one was taken away. Wild West Boys and one or two other bars were raided as Panai described. By the time the police were done there were only two customers remaining. A copy of the passport was acceptable to the police. I don't know of any requirement for the passport copy to be laminated. People do that just to keep the copy from becoming ruined, I suppose. The police accepted copies that included the main photo and information page and the page showing the current visa. The size of the copy was not an issue. Today nearly all of my friends, and me too, were carrying our passports. I know of no other raids. Nobody knows what was going on or why, although there is speculation ranging from the police were looking for Russians who may have been involved with the recent murders of the two women (although there is no evidence that the Russians involved were gay or would be likely to be in a gay bar) to the police trying to impress the "Big Boss." None of us really knows what this was all about or whether to expect any more of it, however there is a story about it in the PATTAYA CITY NEWS: (click the link for photos): http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_09_03_50_4.htm Immigration Crackdown as Police Hunt for Foreign

I don't think there's any way to do that because no matter what anyone recommends, someone always disputes it. However, my recommendation is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for overnight. That's in Pattaya. In both Bangkok and Phuket you can add at least 500 baht to both.

If this is true, then as far as I know it's the first time something like this has ever happened. I'm always advising people not to carry their passport because of the possibility of loss or theft, but I agree that at least until we know for sure what's going on it might be a better idea to carry your actual passport, a copy of it in case of loss or theft, and a second copy of it in your hotel room. I have not yet been able to find anything about this in any of the local or national media. I would think such a thing would be headline news . . . a police station full of "farang," probably raising holy hell. Until we can be certain as to what happened and what is actually going on, all I know is I'll be carrying my passport with me at all times. Thai law specifies that foreigners must have their passport on their person at all times, just as Thai law specifies that Thai citizens must have their national ID cards on their person at all times. In the past whenever a foreigner is caught without carrying his passport, a copy of it has usually been acceptable. If the police wish to verify it, most of the time the foreigner has the actual passport in his hotel room and the police accompany him to the room to check it out. However, they do not have to do that. If they arrested a whole truckload of "farang" they might not even have the manpower to send a bunch of police officers out to various hotel rooms. They're too busy catching helmetless motorcycle drivers. In light of the recent publicity about how immigration officers at the airport are all being trained to be smiling and polite to foreigners, it would seem bizarre that after all these years there would be such a sudden crackdown without any warning, but bizarre seems to be a part of daily life in Thailand anyhow, so this sort of a crackdown would come as a surprise to me, but not much of one.

I think you are absolutely right and that you are not reacting too harshly. You may indeed be depriving yourself of a promising relationship, but on the other hand you may be saving yourself quite a lot of grief and expense. Ending it at the first sign of trouble may not be the best move emotionally, but after living here long enough, seeing it happen to so many "farang," and going through it myself, I believe it's the smart move. Not all of the Thai boys are like that, but enough of them are that I believe the wise thing to do is to proceed with caution and not be afraid to end a relationship if it becomes necessary. It gets much tougher if you've been in a relationship over a long period of time and suddenly realize that despite all you tolerated and all you did and all you tried to do, in the end it meant nothing to the boy and you simply had been used and abused all along without realizing it. It's happened to a lot of "farang" and it's happened to me. The trouble is that it's not always so easy to see the handwriting on the wall and it's usually not until some sort of major incident happens that you even realize that you were being manipulated. When you wrote, "I now end any relationship at the first sign of manipulation," that really hit home with me. I've been in situations when I should have done just that, but didn't, and ended up deeply hurt and traumatized in the end. Some people are able to pick up the pieces, put it behind them, and move on with their lives and some people end up becoming the next "flying farang."

Three stories have been published within the past few hours. Here they are: The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Robbery May Not Motivation of Killing Two Russians : Police Boss Acting national police chief Gen Seripisut Temiyavej does not believe the man arrested for the murder of two Russian tourists intended to rob them. Seripisut questioned on Saturday the man personally and said he disbelieved his claim that the killings had been the result of a robbery gone wrong. Tatiana Tsimfer, 30, and Liubov Svirkova, 25, were shot dead around dawn on February 24 as they sat in chairs on Jomtien Beach in Pattaya. Seripisut said Anuchit Lamlert, 24, was the killer. He was arrested on Thursday night. However, Seripisut was convinced that the suspect had not worked alone and that his motive had not been robbery. He was suspicions of Anuchit's claim because the victims had no valuables on them at the time except for a mobile telephone. The pair had gone to the beach for an earlymorning swim. "Police have arrested the suspect, but I am not satisfied. I believe there must be a motive," he said. Pattaya police will continue to search for accomplices, and Seripisut said he did not want a "scapegoat". On Thursday police recovered the murder weapon, a Chinesemade 9mm Norinco pistol. Anuchit told police he had attempted to rob the women but shot them when they screamed for help. Police Second Region commissioner and the senior officer investigating the killings, Lt Gen Assawin Khwanmueng, said Saturday a Bt550,000 reward had been paid. Anuchit has been denied bail. ____________________ The following appears in the PATTAYA CITY NEWS (Photos on the link) : http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_03_03_50_2.htm _____ National Police Chief