Gaybutton

What's the matter, don't you believe in a next life? Besides, I think we have accomplished something. Personally, I think the "pissing and moaning" is a good thing. I like the idea of beating this particular dead horse. "He'll hang there 'till he rots!" - Charles McGraw, 'Spartacus'

Ahem . . . I really don't think the message board is the appropriate place for people to be making their personal hotel arrangements. In the future, please do that by PM or Email.

Here 'tiz . . .

Two sides to every story. You folks out there can believe who you want, but until now I have never heard a complaint about Tui, but I've sure heard plenty about farang who publicly make fools of themselves.

You might be surprised at how many bar owners do read these forums, but rarely post on any of them. If they are not aware of the results of this little poll, they'll know soon enough. The next question is whether they'll pay any attention to what is being said here.

I like 2lz2p's checklist better than my own. It is more detailed and it is correct. One of the things that seems to happen regularly is that different immigration offices have different requirements and all too often people have different experiences in the very same immigration office. The Pattaya immigration office didn't ask me for any kind of address or lease information, but that doesn't mean they won't ask others for it. To me, the smart thing to do is to take any documentation with you that has been asked for in the past. Maybe they'll ask for it and maybe they won't, but it's better to have it with you and nobody asks than it is to be asked for it and you didn't bring it. The worst that can happen is you'll take it home again. There is one exception. If you are applying for the Retirement Visa within Thailand, you do not need a medical certificate. Years ago it was a requirement, but that requirement has been dropped at all immigration offices - within Thailand. Embassies and consulates in other countries, if that's where you are going to apply, may still require a medical certificate, possibly along with other documents that are never asked for within Thailand. Outside of Thailand, many Thai embassies and consulates also require a police report. If you are going to apply for the Retirement Visa in a country other than Thailand, make sure you know what documents are required at the facility where you will apply.

Obama Orders More Benefits for Same-Sex Partners of Federal Workers Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama on Wednesday ordered executive-branch agencies to extend to employees' same-sex partners the same benefits provided to their opposite-sex partners, to the extent allowed by law. The move followed up on Obama's memorandum last year that extended some benefits to same-sex partners of government workers and ordered federal agencies to review additional benefits that also could be available under existing laws. "That process has now concluded, and I am proud to announce that earlier today, I signed a memorandum that requires executive agencies to take immediate action to extend to the same-sex domestic partners of federal employees a number of meaningful benefits, from family assistance services to hardship transfers to relocation expenses," Obama said in a statement. Since taking office in January 2009, Obama has called for the repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that bans openly gay and lesbian soldiers from military service. Obama orders more benefits for same-sex partners of federal workers - CNN.com

I certainly will. Many of us are very familiar with Tui's Place. For those of you who aren't, he's right there in the heart of the gay beach. His hotel rooms are very nice. I've been in a couple of them and if I wanted to stay at the beach, Tui's Place would be my first choice. He also has a very nice little restaurant. Good food at very reasonable prices. When you're on the beach and you order food, quite likely it is Tui's Place that prepares it. That's where many of the concessionaires get it from. He also has absolutely immaculate, spotlessly clean restrooms. If you are at the beach, he charges 10 baht for use of the restrooms. Directly across from Tui's Place is that circular restroom on the beach, run by the lady I call "5-Baht Mary." She charges 5 baht to use her restroom facilities and it wouldn't hurt her to take some lessons from Tui about cleanliness and maintenance. So, you get a choice . . . "5-Baht Mary" or "10-Baht Tui." Personally I think it's worth another 5 baht to be able to use a good toilet facility.

I hope the other bar owners will do the same thing. At least you're trying. You're to be commended for that, and I think everyone will appreciate it and give your bar another chance. I certainly will. Some of the other bar owners seem as if they couldn't care less about what their customers want. And they can't figure out why their bars are empty.

The boys do like it that way. That explanation has been given to me many times too. And it makes little sense to me. One of these days maybe they'll realize they make their money by attracting and catering to the wishes of the customers, not the go-go boys. The way I see it, if the boys want to dance to excessively loud music, then after work go to a disco. But they're in the bars to work there. I could be wrong, of course, but my logic tells me that people at work need to cater to the wishes of their customers, not just themselves. I don't see how it could be any more obvious. The majority of bar customers are farang and the majority of farang are making it plain they don't want excessively loud music. Someone is going to have to very carefully explain to me how, knowing this, it still makes sense for the bars to keep the music volume excessively loud anyway. As strange is this may seem, if a bar has excessively loud music, pushy mama-sans, is permitting their go-go boys to stand there doing nothing but the "One-Knee Shuffle," is charging much more for drinks and off fees than other bars in town, has uncomfortable furniture, filthy stinking toilets, has aggressive touts standing outside blocking my path and trying to physically pull me into the bar, then guess what. The chances of me being a customer in your bar are absolutely nil. And I have a feeling I'm not alone in that. Very sorry, but I don't go to bars at which it's much more of a chore than an enjoyable experience being in there. I'm leaving out the part about the same, tired old crappy drag queen shows, with the lady boys wearing ridiculous costumes and lousy lip-synching. A lot of people like those and do go to those so-called shows. I don't. As soon as those shows start, I'm out the door. That may be the subject of the next poll . . . In any case, most bars are complaining that they're not getting the customer numbers. Three guesses why. When on earth are you going to start paying attention to what your customers want and start doing something to make your bar attractive and a place where customers want to spend their evening as well as their money? As you're putting the "For Sale" sign on your door?

Despite the explanations, you're still going to call it "milk"? Coconuts used for drinking the "water" - that's "water" ChristianPFC - are immature coconuts. It's easy with use of a machete or other kind of heavy knife. If the coconut has matured and the "meat" has become solid, now the coconut is almost rock hard. On one end of a mature coconut you'll see three spots, better known as 'eyes.' One of those 'eyes' is usually soft enough to bore through it with a sharp knife.

The trouble is you also can't hear the boy you may have called over when you're trying to make chit-chat with him or make off arrangements with him. Others may view it differently, but spending time, as well as money, in a bar where the music volume is causing painful, aching, ear throbbing, along with making it impossible to simply talk to someone sitting right next to you, somehow doesn't make it to my list of enjoyable, fun ways to spend an evening.

Well, bar owners, it looks like the point is already made. You can see the results this poll is so far producing just as well as the rest of us can. Now will you give some thought to turning down the volume? I don't know what more needs to be said. You're the ones looking for customers. This aspect of what it takes to get customers seems simple enough to deal with. So, what will you do? Will you reduce the volume or will you continue to cause a significant number of your potential customers to go someone else's bar? The choice is yours.

You're a true dreamer, z909 . . .

No, I don't think a "not loud" option belongs on this poll. I'm not asking about the bars at which the music volume is at a comfortable level. I'm talking about bars at which somebody would have to be awfully stubborn to insist the music is not loud. I think everyone reading this thread knows exactly what I mean. However, that's what "other" is for if you feel I left anything out. I'm not looking for a dispute about what constitutes 'loud.' Again, I think everybody knows what I mean. Basically, what I'm trying to find out is whether most people are going to tolerate excessively loud music or not. The way I see it, Thai law permits the music volume to be up to 90 decibels. Beyond that, now the law is being violated and the music is loud.

On the "Puffs and Pans for gay venues" thread one of the things being discussed is the music volume in Thailand's gay bars. I started this thread to see what the majority of opinions turns out to be. I think I covered most of it in the poll questions. If not, I put in an option for "other." Ok, let's see what everyone thinks.

What young people? The only young people I normally see in the bars are the boys who work there. Every so often I see you, gay farang here, but it's quite unusual. Whatever the reason for the loud music, I don't think that's it. I've had some bar owners tell me they do it because the boys like it. I'm sure they do, but the boys are not the customers.

There are times when that might be a positive thing . . .

Do you truly believe those are the reasons the music is dangerously and illegally loud and strobe lights are aimed directly into your eyes? To put it mildly, I don't share your opinion. I see absolutely no justification for the music being as loud as it is in some bars, even if customers really are saying they like it that way. Whether they like it that way or not, I sure don't and it is also illegal. I can understand the music being somewhat loud, but when it reaches a level at which the only way people, even when sitting right next to each other, can reasonably communicate is if they all happen to be proficient in the sign language of the deaf, I'd say that's a bit much. And in some of those bars, people working in them will eventually need that proficiency if nothing is done about the volume level. This is one instance when "voting with your feet" can make the point. I can't speak for others, but for me if I find myself in a bar at which the music is that loud, I'm getting the hell out of there.

And it is really good. You won't be disappointed.

Not that I've ever noticed in Thailand. In Thailand the coconut is the container. Why not buy some sort of container of your own, then buy a coconut or two, pour the coconut water into the container, and refrigerate it yourself?

For those of you who prefer to see Gay Romeo boys in the flesh before meeting them, just go to the beach. I was at the beach today. Half of Gay Romeo was there. And believe me, there was plenty of that flesh to see and every one of them hoping to meet a farang. For those of you who are thinking maybe right now a trip to Thailand isn't such a good idea, think again . . .

I realize this is an old thread, but I just renewed my retirement visa yesterday and the documents required were just as I listed above. I was not asked to show a credit card, debit card, or any other kind of card. I was not asked for any evidence of my address (number 12 on the list). But I had it with me anyhow. I'm not sure whether they ask some people and not others, but it was obvious that the Immigration officers recognized me from previous years. If they haven't gotten to know you, maybe they'll ask, so do carry it with you, just in case. I was in and out in less than 10 minutes. They gave me a claim card and told me to come back today to pick up my passport, which I did. That's all there was to it. For those of you from the UK, Barry Kenyon was in the Immigration office and still is readily available if you have any questions or difficulties. I didn't think to ask, but since he retired from being a Thai consul I don't think he issues proof-of-income statements anymore. You can ask him, but I think you'll have to go to the UK embassy to get it and I believe they do require some sort of proof to substantiate the income you intend to claim. The USA embassy still issues proof-of-income statements solely on whatever you tell them, without having to show any kind of documentation. Remember, renewing or obtaining a Retirement Visa does not alter the date by which you must do your 90-day address report.

I thought they all have a designated smoking area. They call it "outside."

Yes, but at my weight I also often strike oil . . .