Bob

Ok, I'm finished. And I'll be uncharacteristically nice and not say what I think is going on here. Have a happy life.

I'm curious as to why you're posting some of this stuff here. You want us simply to know what you're doing? You want people to offer comments or advice about it (if the latter, that appears to be somewhat of a wasted effort....)?

I occasionally get the drift that you're not as naive as some of your postings suggest and that you're just winding us up. Presuming that's not the case, why not just act like a normal, reasonable, human being? You can say "no thank you" with a smile, can't you? Is it that hard to do?

If you (Taylorsquare or others) are looking for a long-term relationship with a 100% "gay" person, I suppose it's relevant to you whether someone is "gay" or "not"; otherwise (meaning if you're just looking to have a certain brand of sex with another guy), why would you care if they're "gay", 98% "gay", or 10% "gay?" Is is that important that you know what they do on their own time or, perhaps, is the actual reality of their "gayness" irrelevant so long as you think their 100% gay? I'm not sure of your mindset there (or why you'd care unless you're looking for a long-term mate). As to GB's definition, I agree with his phraseology if one is asking what is or isn't gay activity but it hardly touches the almost undefinable concept of what is a "gay" person. I suppose that somebody who exclusively wants and engages in sex with a person of their own sex is pretty much "gay"; but, other than that situation (which likely doesn't apply to 90%+ of the boys in all the bars in Pattaya), it's A to Z and not likely to be accurately described by anybody.

All the good ideas that I can think of have been mentioned - with a low music volume (so you can chat) being my #1 desire.

I'm taking another language class at CMU and had the opportunity to chat with the teacher (35-year-old-Thai man) about his tipping habits. The first thing he said, which seemed a bit like what's being said above, is that he tips according to the quality of service (he treats it somewhat like a reward). It also depends on the quality of the restaurant (he doesn't leave a tip at the gao man gai place when he eats breakfast or lunch) and the amount of the bill. If it's a fancy restaurant, he said he and his friends typically leave about 10%. Less fancy, maybe 20 baht or just the coin change (especially if the service was lousy). He also tips more if he knows the person well - whether the restaurant owner, waiter, etc. He mentioned that he pays more than he otherwise would to his barber but that's because he's known him for so long. He also mentioned that some professions here do expect tips on occasion (waiters in restaurants, hotel people, etc.) as they are used to it. He said the practice is growing and opined that its because the Thais often adopt practices from the West. So, motivation-wise, not too different than some of us. I didn't get a chance to ask him or anyone yet about minimum-wage, payments to male versus female reataurant staff, etc. Maybe I will if I get a chance but I'm not sure he'd know (although he seems rather street saavy to me). [As to some of Z's comments, look, I added the comments about where the practice comes from at least in the US as you seemed to lack an understanding as to how our minimum wage system works or why at least those of us from the US typically always tipped restaurant workers. And, no, I didn't say or suggest that Michigan's or America's method is good, right, or in-between (perhaps a closer reading of what someone posts will avoid comments like this). We all come to Thailand with our own habits and customs and nobody ought to care what somebody else pays or doesn't pay. Just do your own thing and skip worrying about how what others pay will affect your budget.]

Out of prurient interest only, I've followed a little of your multiple (understatement?) exploits, firecat. Compared to you, I'm a stick in the mud (maybe do to age or whatever, I have neither the energy or desire to be that busy); yet, regardless of that and thinking there's still hope for me yet, I do need to ask: What's your diet?

You're right, GB - but I was responding to his comment where he was mentioned that he didn't understand why in the west those practices occurred. We've talked about the topic a bit in the thread as it's really the reason a lot of falang come here with the understanding that it's proper (or even expected) to tip some employees. Hey, GB, if you think of it at the time, wonder if you could ask a Pattaya restaurant owner or two what is (if anything) the minimum wage in Thailand and what they typically pay either a restaurant waiter (and, maybe, versus the cook). Would be interesting to find out (I'm even curious to know if the minimum wage is different for a construction worker, let's say, versus a restaurant waiter). I really don't know any restaurant owners up here but I'll ask if/when I get the chance. Just curious.

I put down what I would pay a stranger for a one hour massage. I typically go to the same place (Olde Thai Medicine Hospital here in Chiangmai) and use the same guy for two hours (they just raised the 2-hour rate after 10 years to 300 baht) and I typically give him a 100 or 120 baht tip.

Well, perhaps it's because you lack some information about how the minimum wage system works in some places. In my home state of Michigan, for example only (I don't know how other states deal with it), the minimum wage is set far lower for traditionally "tipped employees" (restaurant waiters, for sure)but the tips and wages are supposed to meet the minimum wage standards. For specific example, the current minimum wage in Michigan is $7.40; however, the minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.65 (just a bit lower, you see). Every pay period, both the employer and employee are required to sign a statement regarding the tips received so the government can make sure the waiter is making at least the full minimum wage. Why did this start? Heck if I know but it's been that way (tipped employees being paid less by the employers) all of my life. I've always understood they got paid diddley so never objected to providing the tips - I've always considered it a part of the cost of going to a restaurant.

By custom and upbringing, I've learned to tip and I suppose I continue to do it (at a level I choose) because of that, because financially I'm able to do it, because usually I feel that what I'm getting is a pretty damned good bargain, and maybe even because I sometimes believe that the person getting the tip needs the money more than I do. And, whether it's the hotel maid or a regular restaurant I eat at, I always seem to get the feeling they appreciate it (and, oftentimes, I get added politeness and service in exchange). But, to each his own. What I don't cotton to (and I don't think z909 is exactly saying that) is the sometimes ex-pat mantra that everybody ought to do "X" so that prices stay low for the rest of us. Hey, like GB said, tip if you want to, don't if you don't want to. I can understand a guy asking what the standard tip would be (or if even one is expected) but, in my view, nobody ought to concern themselves with those that might be tipping more than somebody else thinks is appropriate.

Speaking of freeloaders: Today, I stopped by Wad Chedi Luang to see the ceremonies and funeral pyre (a beautiful elephant shaped structure that's going to really burn a revered monk tomorrow evening) and my buddy Garn (the tuk tuk driver who I've known for a decade and who drove me there) mentioned that all of the food stations (maybe 20 or so?) on the temple grounds were free today. I felt rather chintzy about that given we typically give food and money from the monks rather than receive charity from them. But Garn and I can report that the food was "aroy mak mak."

It's baaaaack! And, yes, that's a weak attempt to mimic the famous movie line...... as I see a few posters over "there" see no humor at all with this thread. That breaks my heart, it really does.

Not that I can figure out (although I do notice that while wearing my 3D glasses which I got at the movie Avatar, you do see lots of photos of naked Thai guys).

Very cool! How's the brain sturgeon and double-naught spy Loeploh doing?

[Don't feel bad - unless it's that paintbrush thing (presuming that's what it is) in the window that opens up while you're writing a reply/post), I didn't either. Hmmm, while I'm being a moron this morning, let's see if I can change the color and size and font of this reply....]

Bah, humbug. When I saw that message ("Account Suspended!") a short while ago, I figured that I was personally banned from the site - and I intended to wear that status as a badge of honor. But, no, now you tell me it's just because the owner was too lax/cheap to pay the bill. Now I don't know what to feel. Somewhat like thinking you won the lottery until you realize you didn't read your numbers right!

I acknowledge I'm a bit dense (understatement, probably) but I'm a little confused there. I can see the paintbrush, sizes thing, etc., for posting replies.....but how (if it's able to be done) does one change some settings so that all postings appear in another color (bloack would be fine) and to change the general background colors?

Like others, I simply don't find O'Brien funny at all (in fact, I find him simply weird and he actually is irritating/grating to me). Leno at least had some funny material but he never was as funny or as personally engaging as Johnny Carson. Based on what I've seen on late night TV since Carson left the air, there's nobody out there that's anywhere near as talented as Carson was.

And a rather profound result (in a negative way, of course), wasn't it? Essentially, we still have the same court philosophically-wise so that ought to give you a drift about the chances of any liberal causes.

Sincerely, the best possible result from the US Supreme Court is a ruling that the states have the right on their own whether to allow or not allow same-sex marriages. The Court has ruled in the past (precedent) that marriage is an issue for the states and any court, liberal or conservative, would likely follow the precedent. Given the conservative nature of the existing court, it's almost guarateed. What I'm concerned about is if the California Supreme Court rules to uphold same-sex marriages (meaning, they rule Proposition 8 is unconstitutional) based on any constitutional provision in the US Constitution (versus the State of California constitution). If that happens, you can bet your bottom dollar that the US Supreme Court will reverse that part of any such ruling - on the basis that the US Constitution in no manner allows same-sex marriage. Remember, we have a conservative Court led by "orginalists" such as Scalia and Thomas - and there is no way they're going to rule that the framers of the constitution had any inkling to approve or bless same-sex marriages. From the legal point of view, this is simply a no-brainer (meaning, there ain't no chance, folks, of the US Supreme Court helping the cause of same-sex marriage). The only hope is that the California Supreme Court rules for same-sex marriage based on the California state constitution and that the US Supreme Court later chooses not to rule at all (essentially ruling that California has the right to define and interpret its own constitutional provisions).

In my opinion, there is no (zero) chance that the US Supreme Court as presently constituted will ever rule that states must recognize let alone legalize same-sex marriages. Just no chance at all so nobody ought to get their hopes up.

Always something special about persons like this who doesn't see their acts as "heroic" but simply behaving as anyone ought to do under the circumstances. A true hero - and I'm sure the Franks family would feel the same.

Almost all the threads I remember about tipping involved the tiresome question of how much to tip the boy one offs. While there may have been threads about what, if anything, you tip the repairman, the restaurant waiter, the bellhop, or the delivery guy, I don't remember those. But I've got a lousy memory. In any event, I find RichLB's question somewhat interesting.

Based on my upbringing in the states - where we understood in restaurants that the workers are paid next to nothing and the expected tips are what really help them make a semi-decent living - I can't seem to not tip here in Thailand. Based on my experience, my Thai friends actually believe that I shouldn't tip at all in a strictly Thai restaurant (but I do anyway and just put up with their "ting tong" looks). I typically tip 20 baht or 10%. In medium or upscale restaurants, I see even my Thai friends (and other Thais) provide some tip.....but often it's only 20 baht regardless of how much the total bill may be. I can't say what the expectation is in all cases. I don't typically tip the tuk tuk guys up here in Chiangmai as they overcharge in the first place. I don't use the motorsai taxis and I typically don't tip the baht bus drivers. Oh, if I'm eating in a cafeteria-type setting, I don't ever tip there (not sure why, maybe because I'm going and getting my own food). Not sure about the repairman or deliverymen as I don't use them very often (although recently I did give two Thai guys 20 baht each for delivering a desk I bought at a store). I do tip hotel bellmen if they carry my bag either up to the room or outside to the taxi. Usually 20-40 baht.