Bob

For the most part, they're incapable of realizing that for the very reason that they are "believers" in the first place. The concepts of free speech and freedom of religion unfortunately allow the nuts to carry on; however, when/if they cross a line, a criminal charge or jail term can at least express society's general view of their occasional wacky/criminal behavior.

Having seen too many bar boys practice the "let me see how fast I can blow my money routine", I'd at least suggest you ask the boy how he wants to be paid. Would be kinda nice (if he agrees) to maybe give him 500 baht a day and then a big chunk at the end. That way, he'll probably be holding at one time more money than he's ever had at one time (or in a long time) and maybe, just maybe, he might think about saving a little of it. But, if he doesn't, what the hell, at least he can buy the snazziest mobile phone on the market.

My guess (hope) is that lvdkeyes is referring to that occasional smoker that smells like an ashtray, not every smoker or even the typical smoker. I think we've all met the few that smell like that but, thankfully, it isn't too often. Typically it's the guy who smokes like a chimney and then wears the same shirt for 3 days. I agree but I'm hoping you're not suggesting that this occurence somehow gives free license for us smokers to simply ignore normal social protocol. Hey, we're both smokers and I'm fairly certain we and most smokers make some concessions occasionally not to bother the rest of the world around us. Most of us here are probably just arguing how far the concessions ought to go, not whether to make any at all.

Even as a long-time smoker, I'm amazed at the bravado (if that's the correct word - perhaps it's more of a chest-thumping while crowing "I can do anything I want to do") of some of us smokers. Yea, I've got the right to smoke but I also know that it's unhealthy for me and for those around me and I also know that many people find the smell to be rather foul. Smokers who insist on standing up for their "rights" while ignoring the distress they cause to other people are probably half the reason the non-smokers are so adverse to our habits. I didn't smoke in a restaurant long before it was illegal to do so as, not being totally stupid, I knew it was really making some other diners not enjoy their dinners. But, yea, I could have pulled out 18 cigarettes or a couple of cigars, beat on my chest for a moment, and then "exercised my smoking rights." I still smoke a pack a day but it doesn't take much effort at all to do that with a little common sense so as not to piss off or harm the people around you.

Given you'll be paying for a ton of other stuff, it be my view that 1,000 baht a day is more than enough. You also could simply talk to him, explain that you'll be paying for all the hotels, meals, transportation, etc., and what does he think that a fair payment would be for the 17 days - and you might be surprised that he might say something less than the 1,000 per day. None of my comments should be viewed as being critical if you should choose to pay more. Being generous isn't a fault as far as I'm concerned.

I'm a smoker for way too long but I don't agree with that view. Sure, I've got my rights to do whatever I want on my property but I've also got an obligation to not provide a smelly and unsafe environment for guests. If I have non-smoking guests over, I'm the one that goes outside if I need to light up. Just a simply matter of courtesy and safety. Xian, if younger/older sister brings the baby or kids over to see Uncle Xian, you blow smoke in their faces?

Are you I walking around wearing a tee-shirt that says "KICK ME" on it? I've never (ever) heard anybody complain more than you about how people stare at you, mistreat you, etc. Maybe you're just having some bad luck or your karma gene's a bit short.....but, for some reason, I'm rather doubting that. Some may disagree with me but it's generally not a good idea to be holding hands while prancing down the street. Maybe it's okay in the heart of Sunee or in Boyztown but I'd suggest you stop doing that elsewhere. Other than that? I'd recommend you get very dark sunglasses and a white cane and then maybe you'll have half of chance of not being picked on. But only half a chance..

Lol. Hey, you don't me wasting bandwidth and posting all the possibilities, do you? But, don't worry, it won't be Tom. He told me you'd be the last guy on earth he'd call!

I'd also characterize the list as a list of pet peeves versus an instructional guide (those that break most of these rules are not that easily trained in the first place...). I do forget names and, for years, I'd do a song-and-dance routine just dodging around having to actually say the name that I forgot. Nowadays, more often than not, I just say something to the effect: Sorry, my memory is terrible and I simply can't remember your name. The outcome is usually fine although once or twice I've actually had somebody get a little angry over it (which, in that case, I'm glad I couldn't recall the name...haha). As for the telephone calls while out to dinner, I think your time period, GB, is a bit much. I'll answer and say something like: Hi, Tom, I'm having dinner with friends, can I call you back? If (on rare occasion the caller can't wait), I'll just say something to my friends like "sorry, guys, I've got to take this" and walk away from the table with my phone. Nobody ought to be out to dinner with friends and still be yakking in their face for a minute (or, for that matter, more than 10 seconds or so).

Hell if I know, it's been a lot of years since I've been there. I was just using that as an example so people understood that the law doesn't distinguish (in making a judgment that "prostitution" occurred with an underaged person) between directly handing cash and paying for something else. If the court determines that "sex for value" has been exchanged, it's, as they say in Thailand, "same same." That analogy, of course, could be used to argue that most marriages are simply legalized prostitution...hehe. But the bottom line remains the same for those with at least half a brain - you can essentially eliminate all risk (other than the risk that somebody will actually enforce the basic "prostitution law" itself as involving adults only) if you make sure your "date" (god, that was nice) is 18 or older.

I'm definitely in your camp. Predicting short term (even year-to-year) fluctuations is little more than voodoo. However, presuming Economics 101 actually carries some truth, there is no doubt in my mind that the US dollar over the long term has to head for swirlyville (i.e., drop like a rock). Too much debt, foreign countries holding gargantuan piles of greenbacks, and unbelievably huge and continuing imbalances of trade flows can only mean one thing - the dollar is ultimately going way down. We (US people and others) have chuckled for years over how many million Italian lira it takes to buy something but we very well may be in that same boat in the not too distant future. Why it hasn't already happened is beyond me (other than many countries - especially the ones that hold those tons of greenbacks and other US investments - have been working fairly hard to stop it from happening as their investments and their trade with the US will go south too). The Thai baht in itself is an enigma. The country is falling behind other countries (Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, and the ever-growing giant China) and it's education system or lack thereof (just my personal opinion there) will keep it going in that direction. So, how the Thai baht keeps up with any of those currencies is way beyond me. But, eventually, I'd guess, it can't and it won't.

Yep....with the cautionary note that most current 17-year-olds were born in 2535 [i.e., only a kid born on for before "today's date" (which, of course, will move forward daily) is actually 18 years old].

No. What's real (and obvious) is that you know nothing about the man and the choices he made and your baseless speculations are way out of line (at least in my opinion).

Nope, agree completely. For all practical purposes (involving falang having sex with anyone in Thailand), it's 18. And it's also my view that talking theory (well, technically you could legally have sex with a 16 or 17 year old here so long as there's nothing of value - giving him money, buying him dinner, paying for his disco bill, buying him a t-shirt, paying for his entry to the Grand Palace, paying for his taxi ride, etc. - exchanged is basically unpractical theory (the situation by and large isn't going to happen and, even if it does, one shouldn't be dumb enough to think a cop might believe that) and probably dangerous as it might cause the newbe (or oldie) to engage in foolish/risky behavior. And, for those from the US, you can be prosecuted in the US for having sex with somebody in another country if the person is under 18 regardless if it's practically or theoretically legal in that other country (there are some minor exceptions but they are not going to apply to any falang reading this).

I try (successfully at times) not to get personal with posters and would hope that Hedda personally is well too. That being said, the newsflash of this thread to me is your comments, GT, that Khun Hedda is one of your favorite posters on all the boards and that you apparently really enjoyed the general content of the "Hopper." In the spirit of wishing you a good Friday and weekend, I'll just leave it at that (but, on second thought and expressly defying my own suggestion I'd keep my mouth shut, you might want to up the medications just a wee bit).

Rich, there is a thread about the Kindle on the Ting Tong forum. Khun jaafar bought one recently and, yes, it's supported in Thailand (for English) and he downloads books, newspapers, etc. I've seen it and, while I don't get impressed that often, it'll be something on my list to go look at this spring/summer when I return home. Although it's fairly expensive ($500.00 range?), it's probably quite worthwhile for those in Thailand who read a lot and wish to avoid all the book shipping costs.

I'm not sure if he was asking about the "off" fees but, if he was, I agree with your assessment. If he's talking about what tip would you give the boy for simply having him come over to your table to sit with you a while and chat, I usually buy the boy a drink and then give him 100 baht or so when I leave. I have no clue what one does/pays if somebody is carrying on with the boy in the bar as I don't do that and think it's rather offensive (at least to me).

I thought the name of the product was a bit goofy. When they sell a bigger one, will it be a MaxI Pad?

7 of them there? Damn, I've got to get my eyes checked. I haven't been over there for a little over a month. I thought there were three on the left (Secrets or something like that, the next one's name being unknown to me, and then the Cruise or Cream Bar in the back left) and maybe three on the right (Cruise or Cream Bar being the one on the back right, some cubby hole in the middle, and the Old Dragon King on the front right being sorta set up as some kind of bar). I wasn't really counting the front two on the right as real bars (never seemed too populated when I was there a few times this fall). The "peak bars" are no more. Last day was November 17th or 18th (I know, I was there for the closing parties). The Chang Beer outfit bought the land a long time ago and finally kicked out the tenants (which was kinda dumb since the places have sat empty since then). I've heard rumors that Chang is going to either build a hotel or a retail shopping place there.

If the guy was peddling underage sex, good.

I've never stayed there but PJ's place has gotten fairly universal praise on the boards I visit. The reviews for the rooms at Lavender Lanna have been mixed (although it's very close to one of the bars - Power Boys which is on premises). PJ's place, Soho Bar, the Kad Suan Gaew mall, and Lavender Lanna are all within short walking distances of each other. LeMeridien certainly is a swanky joint but rather pricey. It immediately abuts the usual night market street (Chang Klan) and is very close to the 4 or so night-market bars that are still open; however, it's a long way to any of the so-called gogo bars. If you want to stay in that area, a cheaper alternative would be the Centara Duangtawan (almost right across the street from LeMeridien) or Porn Ping Hotels (a fairly short walking distance away). Both are older hotels with somewhat tired rooms but there is no hassle with joiners at least if you've booked a double in the first place. I've stayed at both times many, many, times within the last 10 years (and sorta favor the Duangtawan).

Hell if I know but it seems a bit strange to come to Bangkok for "white" rent boys. I would've thought he might have headed to Prague for that. Next year I'm thinking of heading to Idaho for chinese boys.....

I've been to Adam's Apple twice in the last couple of months and your description of the shows or variety of boys available was no where near what I experienced (and I have no fear of blasting what I see if I don't like it). And your description is different than what other friends of mine have experienced (or at least how they related it to me). I'm sure you're being accurate with what you saw - and apparently proves that even good bars have off nights on occasion.

Glad you said it first. 99% of us would be friggin' nuts to own/operate a bar or almost any business in Thailand. I've known too many guys who owned bars (you know, just the drinking and food variety) elsewhere to even suggest that most falang could make a go of it. You've got to be there all the time, you'd have a higher likelihood of screwing up your liver, you'd begin to hate some of your regular customers, and, most of all, you'd absolutely go nuts with all of the administrative (staff personal issues, paying bills, guessing what the public wants, etc.) issues you'd deal with. Now add to all of that the problems/issues that would be added if you're also acting as a pimp (I don't like that word but it's probably an accurate one). Never forget the old axiom we all know - the only way to make a small fortune in Thailand is to invest a larger one. With respect to the boybar business, I doubt if there are more than a very small percentage of owners that have ever actually made money at it. There are exceptions, of course [Lumsden comes to mind - but can you even imagine all the hours and issues he's had to deal with over the last 15 years? My god, I wouldn't wish that on anybody!], but if you believe you'd be one of them, you're dreaming in my view. For most people that open a restaurant or a bar, it's simply "in their blood." Pray to god (buddha) you don't catch the same disease....hehe.

Fully agree with the "just say no" comments and the key, to me, is how you say it. There's a way to say something firmly and politely and it's probably better to keep it short and simple. There's no need to be either a "Schmuckus Maximus" or an "Assertive Maximus."