Bob

Any country that has any semblance of free speech ought to condemn the conviction and the sentence. Unfortunately, a prime example of why Thailand is in some respects as backwater as it gets.

Some orders of priests (for example, the Franciscans) certainly do take vows of poverty and technically aren't allowed to own anything except personal clothing and close personal effects. Dominican priests (I think the largest order of priests) can own whatever they want including real estate. One tends to think that all priests (or nuns) are the same as the ones you personally know but that's not true (there are many varieties). All priests (at least Catholic ones) take vows of celibacy (and probably most actually honor those vows!).

If you're talking about the lower class providing prostitutes, I certainly do....they're there for the money. And so are the so-called imports from the Phillipines and Thailand in Japan. Wealthy or middle-class kids don't show up as prostitutes in the boybars or ladybars....and they also aren't imported to other countries for prostitution. It's the poor and there surely wouldn't be so many Isaan boys in the Pattaya bars if there were any jobs that paid the same as what they can make (or, perhaps, perceive they can make) in the bars. Pornography may or may not be a different cup of tea but, in my view, poverty and prostitution go hand in hand and always have.

The periodic warnings about the underage bar problem hopefully serve to warn newbies of the problem. Everybody has their own personal safety level and I suppose I'd be more concerned about the issue for myself if I was in Pattaya (or, sometimes, Bangkok or Chiangmai). Here, in Hua Hin, the problem thankfully doesn't exist (at least I have never seen it nor have I heard about it). The Thai government, if it chose, could take dramatic steps to substantially eliminate the problem but, for whatever reason, there's an occasional arrest and occasional action versus any genuine tackling of the problem. Most or all of us have easily seen it before without looking - whereas the Thai cops just can't seem to see it even if they allegedly are looking for it (and the prior knowledge of bars on occasion that the cops will be coming surely isn't related to any clairvoyance!). My only conclusion on that is that there's just too much tea money involved. Don't do it and stay away from it as best you can. Other than that, there's really nothing much any of us can do about it (other than, of course, repeatedly debate the issue amongst ourselves). I have no problem with the continual discussion other than the rare poster who suggests we are excusing or condoning the activity if we don't do this or that about it and/or if we don't issue strong condemnations every time the issue is mentioned.

My brain would need training wheels and I'd still have a wreck. I've been attending Thai language classes a couple of times the last month and, while I can read the stuff and understand it, my retention rate is rather poor. Guess I'm on the downward slope to oblivion (unless Chang bia will save me....).

Rather needlessly shrill there. Some posters in the past have on rare occasion indicated that the sky is falling. It hasn't as far as I'm concerned. If you truly have the concern that you'll be the first known falang that was arrested for solely being in a bar where one or more underaged workers or patrons were present, fine, then don't put yourself in that possible position. You're entitled to your own opinion and your own fears, real or imagined.

Besides the debacles of the last year, American business has gotten totally out of whack the last decade or two. We pay allegedly bright people millions of dollars to run companies and, when things are going bad (meaning they fucked up), they're then paid millions of dollars to go away. If the average citizen didn't do his job, he gets fired and told to get the hell out. These execs, far too often, are handed millions of dollars and never skip a beat. And they've got everybody believing that this is just "normal" conduct of business. In Japan (where the concept of responsibility still occasionally lives), they'd simply give them knives.....

I don't see it as crazy at all. Taxpayers' money ought not to be used to reward the idiots that let their companies fail in the first place. People were warning of these derivatives 7-8 years ago and, in my view, these execs ought to have been smart enough to plan for a possible downturn in the value of real estate. It's tough enough choking down the concept of saving their companies and their jobs - but the concept of them using government money to reward themselves for fucking up is way beyond what I believe is fair. The officers and directors of these companies are legal fiduciaries to the shareholders (owners) with respect to the quality of the assets they are purchasing. As a legal fiduciary, they were required to use not just "ordinary care" but "utmost care" in safeguarding those assets. They ought to all be sued as they clearly breached that standard.

Certainly fair enough to me....and I eagerly await his response reflecting, hopefully, some backup for his prior posting.

Well, your false insinuation at least made me go back and read all the posts on this thread. And there's not a shred of suggestion by anybody that they condone the activity. You've accused "some" of the posters here of condoning pedophilia and, in my view, coming out with a statement like that ("some of you are __________") is absolute bullshit and tends to tar people that don't deserve it. I've been around these boards from the beginning and I know of no one here that condones the activity. So.....presuming you want to accuse somebody on this board of condoning pedophilia, I'd suggest you name the names or quote the posts; otherwise, take your smears elsewhere.

Well, it definitely occurs to me that you're wrong.

While going to the link, I was hoping that the phrasing of the question wouldn't help screw up the intelligent answer. For once, I was pleasantly pleased that 70% disagreed with the Pope. I'd guess that well over half of even Catholics (I'm one - or was raised as one) disagree with the old guy in Rome about the condom issue. The Church's position on sex and condoms parallels it's thinking about Galileo almost 500 years ago - and almost as fucking stupid as the "just say no" abstinence campaign 20 years ago in the states. Will they ever get it? It's perfectly fine to try to teach kids to abstain from sex; however, a lot of them are going to have sex anyway and not arming them with the proper information and protections is simply assinine, putting their lives at risk, and damn near criminal.

Both mailings were by hand delivery to the main post office here in Hua Hin. I was careful with the dates (wanting the cards to arrive on or shortly before the birthdays) and dumbfounded why it took so long. Am mailing another card next week or so and will keep track of that one too (but I'm mailing it 20 days before the date I want it there!).

I've sent two birthday cards to relatives to the USA from Thailand in the last 6 weeks and using the regular (cheap) airmail has resulted in delivery times of 18 and 20 days for the two of them. In prior years, I've only done a couple of mailings and it seemed that it only took 10-12 days back then. This typical delivery time now - 18 to 20 days from Thailand to the USA? Just wondering if anybody else has similar experiences. P.S. Once the card hits the US shores, I'm fairly certain that it only takes 3 days at most to go from the west coast to Michigan (my home state) so I'm rather puzzled as why it takes 2 weeks+ to get from Thailand to the US. They still using donkeys???

I join GB as one of the crazes that also loves Songkran. A lot of fun if you approach it with the right attitude and gear (shorts, tee-shirt, sandals, wallet in a baggie, etc.). Normally I spend the time in Chiangmai but this will be my first time in Hua Hin. I hope it's as crazy here as it is around the moat in Chiangmai.

Having the same airline operate at two different airports is economically unwise. Thai Air doesn't want to operate at both airports for that very reason. Air Asia refuses to split its operations to both airports for the same reason. I, for one, am happy to see Thai bring all of its flights back to Suvarnabhumi. If other airlines want to stay at Don Muang, fine by me - and I can see some sense in letting the budget airlines stay there if they so desire (but none of them will want to operate at both airports). Although huge, I don't understand the gripes about Suvarnabhumi. To me, it's extremely easy to use. And - because I like to connect up an international with a domestic flight - it's far, far, superior to Don Muang (the Pattaya guys, of course, wouldn't care about that) in my opinion.

While maybe better than what's occurred before, parents having to pay 30% seems to make the the word "free" inapplicable. I've understood that school is actually fairly free of costs through what we would call elementary school (through middle school but before high school). I've been told that after that age, there are costs (for uniforms, books, class trips, etc.) that some poor families cannot afford and that is why many of their kids leave school then and join the family in the rice farming or whatever on a full-time basis [it could also be argued that many of those rural poor want the kids back in the fields full-time at that age and perhaps that desire (versus the cost) may be the primary factor for stopping their children's formal education at that age)]. The Thai constution (both the old and the latest versions) provided quite clearly that free education must be provided through high school. That actually hasn't been the case but any program (like the one discussed in this article) is surely a step in the right direction. For Thailand to compete with China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, and other surrounding countries, they absolutely need to boost the number of people receiving at least a high school education. They also need to radically alter the manner and quality of education but that's a somewhat separate issue.

GB, just one question. You mentioned the embassy letter (which would deal with your income verification) but you also mentioned your "bank letter." Are you using a combination of income and bank money on hand or did you just cover both bases to make sure there wasn't a problem?

Don't think I agree with that one. Just got my retirement (long-term) visa a few weeks ago and all they needed to see was a short letter from my bank (which only verified I was a depositor and had "x" amount on deposit on that day and did not contain any statement where the funds originated from) and a copy of the first and last page of my bank passbook (the last page showed no deposits and the first page showed an initial deposit of 20,000 baht but it doesn't show where it came from). I've heard that you somehow have to show funds you are using to buy a condo have to come here from overseas; but, frankly, I have no proof of that. Concerning the retirement visa amount, at least for me, there was no verification or even discussion about where it came from and there was nothing like that on the forms I filled out. I suspect it's the same story for the annual renewal - you just have to show 800,000 baht on account for the last 90 days and they don't ask/care where it came from. Presuming GB is doing that routine, I'm sure he can correct me there if I'm wrong.

We certainly agree on that. But I hate to leave it there as, by saying that alone, that implies that many/most of the other teachings of the Catholic church are not pure and simple crap. And that'd be untrue, at least in my personal reality.

Yep, it's free (banks love the deal as they make money on the deposits by being able to loan out money). If you're talking about having your bank transfer money to your BKK Bank, you can do that but they'll charge you a wire transfer fee (my bank in the US charges me $40.00 every time I wire money over to SCB and that's regardless of how much money - same fee for $100.00 or $10,000.00. And, when you wire money, you need to be careful to designate that the funds are transferred by your home country bank in your home country's currency (in my case, dollars); otherwise, they'll switch the money to baht in your home country and you'll get killed (usually) on the rotten exchange rate for baht that your home country has. Additionally, your Thai bank usually charges some fee or doesn't quite give you the very best exchange rate you could get otherwise. If you're wiring a chunk once or twice a year, not that expensive. If you're wiring monthly smaller amounts, probably rather expensive. Two different animals. "Direct deposit" just refers to your home country social security or government pension being automatically wired to your home country bank (versus sending you a check in the mail). An "ATM" transaction is you using your card to withdraw money from whatever bank issued the card to you. There can be a fee (50 baht or so?) to use your ATM card especially in an ATM machine not owned by your bank. Some banks have no fees or very low fees but, with the banking crisis, I'd expect that to change for the worse (SCB never charged me before for certain things but they are this year).

Okay, I'll jump in for just one comment. The "rhythm" policy by the Church is absolutely illogical and inconsistent with its other teachings. The Church tells you that sex is only for procreation and, while you can get your jollies out of it too if you're main intent is to make a baby, just exactly then what is the rhythum deal? The rhythm method is a way to prevent pregnancy by not having sex around the time of ovulation (the release of an egg during a woman's monthly cycle). So, the deal is to intentionally have sex with the specific intent to not make a baby while your having sex. Go figure, then, why it's immoral to have sex without having the main purpose being procreation. They can't explain it because their position is flatly stupid. My mother had her 11th kid when she was 43. Thereafter, she had two miscarriages and the doctor told her that she had to go on birth control or she would likely die if she had another miscarriage. But she couldn't do that - being a friggin' "sin" to the church . My dad, who knew the Bishop, got special written dispensation from the Bishop for my mother to go on birth control (and he only got that because he knew the Bishop very well). What a friggin' crock of shit. The notion that a bunch of celibate old men ought to tell married people how and why they should have sex is rather laughable.

I have not heard of any other bank that receives direct social security deposits making any similar rules. The Bank of Bangkok qualifies for the direct deposit, I believe, because they have a bank in New York City and it'd be my bet that these new rules are a result of some misinterpretation of the rules (that apply to all banks) issued by the US Treasury. The notion that a bank is required to refund to Treasury any amount paid through that bank until after the death or disability of the depositor is made known to the bank is rather ludicrous. But, again, I've heard of no other bank bitching about the rules so my guess this is a result of some misinterpretation by some staff lawyer with Bank of Bangkok. Nevertheless, a pain in the ass for you guys using Bank of Bangkok for your direct deposits of your social security benefits. Switching banks for deposits and absorbing atm fees almost sounds like less of a hassle.

While I acknowledge the forum is to discuss any issue anyone wants, it does amaze me to find a discussion/argument about the Catholic pope(s) on the site (this is Gay Thailand, isn't it?). Being raised a Catholic, I could add a lot of commentary but I won't (let's put it this way, Jesse Ventura had it right, he was just too dumb to say it in public). I spent a lot of negative energy disbelieving most of the horseshit coming out the Church between the time I was 15 and 25; since then (a long time ago), I'd rather discuss the theory of plumbing, how they make paper bags, or anything else.

I believe you'd have no problem as the first 10 baht of income is tax-free.