RIP Charlei Kirk. The Radical Gays know better.

[stevenkesslar]

Yes, I know there is another post on Kirk already.  I want to make a few points I feel strongly about..

First, I feel sad and disgusted.  This is wrong.  This is not the America I want to live in.  This is not the American I want to be.  Political assassination saddens me and disgusts me.

Second, I am proud to be a Radical Gay.  Because we Radical Gays pulled off a hit job almost unlike any other in US history.  And literally even in human history.  We took a sort of gun, and aimed it directly at the head of hate and discrimination and cruelty against Gays.  We pulled the trigger and killed hate against Gays in cold blood. 

That was us.  We did it.

A guy who is actually very decent, Jeb Bush, noticed what The Radical Gays did  and commented on it about a decade ago.

Quote

“What’s interesting is that four years ago Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had the same view that I just expressed to you. It’s thousands of years of culture and history is just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way,” Bush said.

That was Jeb Bush opposing same sex marriage.  And what he said is right.  We changed all human history.  Hopefully forever. 

Sorry, Charlie.  Even if you lived to be 100, you couldn't change it back.  But you sure tried hard.  Bless your heart, Charlie.

And heart is what it was all about.  We Radical Gays did not aim bullets at people.  We aimed out hearts at them.  We talked about how we just wanted to love.  We just wanted to make commitments to people we love.  We just wanted to embrace.  We just wanted to be good, loving human beings.  Just like The Bible tells us to be.  And that is how we won an amazing battle and changed human history.

I am proud of a lot of things I have done in my life.  But I think this tops the list. I was the loving Gay son.  I was the loving Gay brother.  I was the loving Gay uncle.  I also did a lot of political work and made lots of calls and knocked on lots of doors.  But it only worked because millions of people all over the planet who were nobodies, just  like me, did the same thing at the same time, With intention.  We opened our hearts.  We loved. 

And for that, we won.  We killed hate.  We killed bigotry.  All over the planet.  Well, almost.

I don't think Charlie ever understood how powerful love can be.  Way more powerful than a bullet.  But the worm of a human being who killed him clearly did not get the memo.  And Charlie did not deserve to die.  I'm not proud of the America I now live in.  This is not America at its best.

But I am very proud the be a Radical Gay.  We are now at our very best.  We just need to keep doing what we did that is why we won.  Love, empathize, and embrace.

[Suckrates]

If you ask me if I care about Kirks demise, I honestly have to say I DONT.   Pundits and media are making the guy out to be a Messiah of sorts, a savior, when in reality he was a very Dangerous and hateful person that stoked racism and division, an sought to create a coalition contrary to every American norm and value.  .

I have NO thoughts and prayers for that kind of person...   In fact my thoughts and prayers are DEPLETED !   

And how ironic that the person that fought so hard for GUN rights was taken down by the weapon he sought to fiercely protect....   Poetic Justice ?

Hey Republicans. you love guns ?   You want freedom of carry ?    You endorse violence of a way of obtaining and keeping power ?   Well then, perhaps you should take credit for Kirks death ?     YOU built a political climate and social culture that has no bounds, but lots of grievance.   Kirks death was just "one persons solution" in dealing with and manifesting what you wrought !

Dont cannonize Kirk....   DEMONIZE yourselves ...........
 

[Pete1111]

9 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

Yes, I know there is another post on Kirk already.  I want to make a few points I feel strongly about..

First, I feel sad and disgusted.  This is wrong.  This is not the America I want to live in.  This is not the American I want to be.  Political assassination saddens me and disgusts me.

Second, I am proud to be a Radical Gay.  Because we Radical Gays pulled off a hit job almost unlike any other in US history.  And literally even in human history.  We took a sort of gun, and aimed it directly at the head of hate and discrimination and cruelty against Gays.  We pulled the trigger and killed hate against Gays in cold blood. 

That was us.  We did it.

A guy who is actually very decent, Jeb Bush, noticed what The Radical Gays did  and commented on it about a decade ago.

That was Jeb Bush opposing same sex marriage.  And what he said is right.  We changed all human history.  Hopefully forever. 

Sorry, Charlie.  Even if you lived to be 100, you couldn't change it back.  But you sure tried hard.  Bless your heart, Charlie.

And heart is what it was all about.  We Radical Gays did not aim bullets at people.  We aimed out hearts at them.  We talked about how we just wanted to love.  We just wanted to make commitments to people we love.  We just wanted to embrace.  We just wanted to be good, loving human beings.  Just like The Bible tells us to be.  And that is how we won an amazing battle and changed human history.

I am proud of a lot of things I have done in my life.  But I think this tops the list. I was the loving Gay son.  I was the loving Gay brother.  I was the loving Gay uncle.  I also did a lot of political work and made lots of calls and knocked on lots of doors.  But it only worked because millions of people all over the planet who were nobodies, just  like me, did the same thing at the same time, With intention.  We opened our hearts.  We loved. 

And for that, we won.  We killed hate.  We killed bigotry.  All over the planet.  Well, almost.

I don't think Charlie ever understood how powerful love can be.  Way more powerful than a bullet.  But the worm of a human being who killed him clearly did not get the memo.  And Charlie did not deserve to die.  I'm not proud of the America I now live in.  This is not America at its best.

But I am very proud the be a Radical Gay.  We are now at our very best.  We just need to keep doing what we did that is why we won.  Love, empathize, and embrace.

Thank you @stevenkesslar ❤️

[stevenkesslar]

4 hours ago, Suckrates said:

 

Dont cannonize Kirk....   DEMONIZE yourselves ...........
 

The reactions are interesting to observe.   I like Utah's Guv.  He has been saying for a while we need to lower the temperature and seek civil peace.  It's ironic and sad that it happened in the state of a Governor who is a bridge builder.

I think some conservatives, including Trump, are doing Kirk a disservice by anointing him for sainthood.  They are making it sound like horrible terrorists threw a helpless baby in a swimming pool and watched the child drown.   Jesse Watters did a nice job of fanning the fire.  He described Kirk as a kind of boy next door who just believed common sense things, like that there are differences between men and women.  Really?  Who knew?  Then Watters asked his viewers how many of these attacks "we" are going to take.  As if the people who killed Democrats in Minnesota or almost killed Nancy Pelosi's husband were left-wing terrorists.

The best thing I can say about Kirk is he held strong and definitely quite controversial beliefs, just like AOC or Mamdani for example.  He said what he believed, passionately.  He organized people around it effectively.  I respect that, in a way.  His opposition to LGBTQ equality was based in the Bible.   Wow.  Who ever thought of that?  😉  But there are people who say the beliefs of Mamdani are very dangerous or unacceptable.  And a lot of those people are Democrats.  

I like what Nancy Pelosi said when she was just asked about political polarization.  "Ask the Republicans."  It's a partisan thing to say, and I am a partisan.  There are plenty of Democrats, including me, who have said awful things about some Republicans.  Like Trump.  Trump did not create fire.  But he constantly throws gasoline on it.  And he just did it again in his rhetoric about "terrorists".

We, The Gays, have been leaders on this.  To stereotype, I think it is true that people who have been persecuted as a group at their best have a huge capacity for seeking peace and understanding.  Gays, Blacks, and Jews in particular come to mind.  It's a stereotype.  And there are many others who suffer from hate or discrimination.  But in my personal experience some of the best people who felt the most passionate about social justice and fighting hate were one or more of those three things.  

So it's a good time to embrace that.  There are more people like us in the world than there are haters.  Or the worm of a human being who killed Kirk.

[Suckrates]

 

Take-Away from Kirk's Death:

Grievance, anger and rage ALL have a breaking point.

Kirk learned THAT lesson

He LIVED for MAGA Trumpism, defended it, and died doing so..... Everything has its RISKS....

He is NOT a Martyr to me ........   Just an entitled angry young man that, embraced by a wannabee Dictator who died defending his hateful message of White Nationalism.  

IMO, while Kirk had every Constitutional right to spread his message,  our country is way better off WITHOUT him. 

(PLEASE dont throw tomatoes, I am Allergic)     

[stevenkesslar]

3 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

(PLEASE dont throw tomatoes, I am Allergic)     

Aww, Sis.

You know me better than that.  

We Gays just throw love at people.  😍

The practical difficulty is it is hard to throw anything when you have your hand on two different cocks.  😋

[Suckrates]

12 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

The reactions are interesting to observe.   I like Utah's Guv.  He has been saying for a while we need to lower the temperature and seek civil peace.  It's ironic and sad that it happened in the state of a Governor who is a bridge builder.

I think some conservatives, including Trump, are doing Kirk a disservice by anointing him for sainthood.  They are making it sound like horrible terrorists threw a helpless baby in a swimming pool and watched the child drown.   Jesse Watters did a nice job of fanning the fire by asking his viewers how many of these attacks "we" are going to take.  As if the people who killed Democrats in Minnesota or almost killed Nancy Pelosi's husband were left-wing terrorists.

The best thing I can say about Kirk is he held strong and definitely quite controversial beliefs, just like AOC or Mamdani for example.  He said what he believed, passionately, and organized people around it effectively.  I respect that, in away.  His opposition to LGBTQ equality was based in the Bible.   Wow.  Who ever thought of that?  😉  But there are people who say the beliefs of Mamdani are very dangerous or unacceptable.  And a lot of those people are Democrats.  

I like what Nancy Pelosi said when she was just asked about political polarization.  "Ask the Republicans."  It's a partisan thing to say, and I am a partisan.  There are plenty of Democrats, including me, who have said awful things about some Republicans.  Like Trump.  Trump did not create fire.  But he constantly throws gasoline on it.  And he just did it again in his rhetoric about "terrorists".

We, The Gays, have been leaders on this.  To stereotype, I think it is true that people who have been persecuted as a group at their best have a huge capacity for seeking peace and understanding.  Gays, Blacks, and Jews in particular come to mind.  It's a stereotype.  And there are many others who suffer from hate or discrimination.  But in my personal experience some of the best people who felt the most passionate about social justice and fighting hate were one or more of those three things.  

So it's a good time to embrace that.  There are more people like us in the world than there are haters.  Or the worm of a human being who killed Kirk.

 

Sorry Sis,  all I heard was a lot of Political "crisis" speak, and it seemed all the illustrious dignitaries LEARNED how to sling a message following a crisis.   Nothing I heard was new or sounded any different from anything i heard many times before.... except that the "thoughts and prayers bullshit" was kept at a low.   It was ALL just the typical NOISE.  afterall, what could anyone ACTUALLY say ?  Kirk was criitical in getting Trump elected in 2024, creating a huge coalition of Gen Z support.   I am certain the Dems are NOT mourning the LOSS,  but must appear like they are. 

I guess you can say the "worm" that killed Kirk was following HIS own beliefs, and was NOT in favor of hate, divisiveness and INequality  ?    and took matters into his own hands because he saw out country being gutted and noone was doing anything about it !  And Kirk appeared to be a Trump "accomplice".  At THIS point in time under Trump, I can fully understand THAT mindset. 

[stevenkesslar]

55 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

I guess you can say the "worm" that killed Kirk was following HIS own beliefs, and was NOT in favor of hate, divisiveness and INequality  ? 

I doubt that, Sis.  We don't know yet. 

I think we do know the asshole who killed Kirk is a worm and a disgrace.  All this guy did is aimed a gun well enough to kill his target.  He's a worm.  Always will be.

Lots of Gays organized an end to hate.  That's something.  That's my point.

Granted, we Gays did some horrible things.  I personally felt poor Anita Bryant was forced to suffer a horrible fashion moment thanks to our collective bad taste. 

 

But, hey.  No one is perfect.  😉

Most of these people are just nut jobs.  The whole point is they take things to an extreme.  So maybe they have some kind of whacko conspiracy theory and they think killing Charlie Kirk of Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi has some basis in something.  But they are basically mostly whack jobs with guns. 

And I agree with your point about gun control.  It's far too easy for a whack job or just an everyday common criminal to get a gun in the US.  I'm pretty sure that is NOT a lesson Republicans will take away from this.

But I'm just a loving Gay.  I say take the guns away and give them all a pie made at a Gay bakery.

[Suckrates]

43 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

I doubt that, Sis.  We don't know yet. 

I think we do know the asshole who killed Kirk is a worm and a disgrace.  All this guy did is aimed a gun well enough to kill his target.  He's a worm.  Always will be.

Lots of Gays organized an end to hate.  That's something.  That's my point.

Granted, we Gays did some horrible things.  I personally felt poor Anita Bryant was forced to suffer a horrible fashion moment thanks to our collective bad taste. 

 

But, hey.  No one is perfect.  😉

Most of these people are just nut jobs.  The whole point is they take things to an extreme.  So maybe they have some kind of whacko conspiracy theory and they think killing Charlie Kirk of Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi has some basis in something.  But they are basically mostly whack jobs with guns. 

And I agree with your point about gun control.  It's far too easy for a whack job or just an everyday common criminal to get a gun in the US.  I'm pretty sure that is NOT a lesson Republicans will take away from this.

But I'm just a loving Gay.  I say take the guns away and give them all a pie made at a Gay bakery.

 

Based on the photo just released by the FBI of the suspect, he does look sorta "wormlike".   But as you say,  I'll save judgement for later  (although I kinda sorta already gave it).......

 

[RockyRoadTravel]

3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

I doubt that, Sis.  We don't know yet. 

I think we do know the asshole who killed Kirk is a worm and a disgrace.  All this guy did is aimed a gun well enough to kill his target.  He's a worm.  Always will be.

Lots of Gays organized an end to hate.  That's something.  That's my point.

Granted, we Gays did some horrible things.  I personally felt poor Anita Bryant was forced to suffer a horrible fashion moment thanks to our collective bad taste. 

 

But, hey.  No one is perfect.  😉

Most of these people are just nut jobs.  The whole point is they take things to an extreme.  So maybe they have some kind of whacko conspiracy theory and they think killing Charlie Kirk of Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi has some basis in something.  But they are basically mostly whack jobs with guns. 

And I agree with your point about gun control.  It's far too easy for a whack job or just an everyday common criminal to get a gun in the US.  I'm pretty sure that is NOT a lesson Republicans will take away from this.

But I'm just a loving Gay.  I say take the guns away and give them all a pie made at a Gay bakery.

[RockyRoadTravel]

3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

I doubt that, Sis.  We don't know yet. 

I think we do know the asshole who killed Kirk is a worm and a disgrace.  All this guy did is aimed a gun well enough to kill his target.  He's a worm.  Always will be.

Lots of Gays organized an end to hate.  That's something.  That's my point.

Granted, we Gays did some horrible things.  I personally felt poor Anita Bryant was forced to suffer a horrible fashion moment thanks to our collective bad taste. 

 

But, hey.  No one is perfect.  😉

Most of these people are just nut jobs.  The whole point is they take things to an extreme.  So maybe they have some kind of whacko conspiracy theory and they think killing Charlie Kirk of Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi has some basis in something.  But they are basically mostly whack jobs with guns. 

And I agree with your point about gun control.  It's far too easy for a whack job or just an everyday common criminal to get a gun in the US.  I'm pretty sure that is NOT a lesson Republicans will take away from this.

But I'm just a loving Gay.  I say take the guns away and give them all a pie made at a Gay bakery.

[Suckrates]

3 hours ago, RockyRoadTravel said:

7 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

I doubt that, Sis.  We don't know yet. 

I think we do know the asshole who killed Kirk is a worm and a disgrace.  All this guy did is aimed a gun well enough to kill his target.  He's a worm.  Always will be.

Lots of Gays organized an end to hate.  That's something.  That's my point.

Granted, we Gays did some horrible things.  I personally felt poor Anita Bryant was forced to suffer a horrible fashion moment thanks to our collective bad taste. 

 

But, hey.  No one is perfect.  😉

Most of these people are just nut jobs.  The whole point is they take things to an extreme.  So maybe they have some kind of whacko conspiracy theory and they think killing Charlie Kirk of Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi has some basis in something.  But they are basically mostly whack jobs with guns. 

And I agree with your point about gun control.  It's far too easy for a whack job or just an everyday common criminal to get a gun in the US.  I'm pretty sure that is NOT a lesson Republicans will take away from this.

But I'm just a loving Gay.  I say take the guns away and give them all a pie made at a Gay bakery.

Tell us what you think, Rocky,  especially since you posted this twice....😉

[PeterRS]

20 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

First, I feel sad and disgusted.  This is wrong.  This is not the America I want to live in.  This is not the American I want to be.  Political assassination saddens me and disgusts me.

Second, I am proud to be a Radical Gay.  Because we Radical Gays pulled off a hit job almost unlike any other in US history.  And literally even in human history.  We took a sort of gun, and aimed it directly at the head of hate and discrimination and cruelty against Gays.  We pulled the trigger and killed hate against Gays in cold blood . . .

And for that, we won.  We killed hate.  We killed bigotry.  All over the planet.  Well, almost.

I don't think Charlie ever understood how powerful love can be.  Way more powerful than a bullet.  But the worm of a human being who killed him clearly did not get the memo.  And Charlie did not deserve to die.  I'm not proud of the America I now live in.  This is not America at its best.

I found most of @stevenkesslar's post heartwarming and thank him for it. But that does not necessarily mean I agree with it. Yes the gay movement finally overcame its many obstacles - more or less - but it took time. It may have been a movement based on love but the opposing side did not sit back and willingly let the gays march in. Many actually resorted to murder. Just in the USA alone who murdered Sal Mineo and why? Who murdered Harvey Milk and why? Who murdered Julio Rivera and why? Who murdered Than Nguyen for why? Who murdered Nicholas West and why? Who murdered Matthew Shepard and why? Who murdered Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder and why? Who murdered Steen Fenrich in New York, had his body dismembered and the words "gay nigger number one" scratched on his skull along with his social security number? The "why" in this case is not necessary as it is obvious. That poor man's step-father murdered him and then killed himself. 

The fact is that love has not won. It has made giant strides but it is still attacked and is still on the defensive in many places. The Conservative agenda is still very much a homophobic one. In an article in The Guardian on 1 September 2023, New York journalist broadcaster Dan Clark who had come out 20 years earlier wrote, "I have never, in my adult life, felt less safe to be gay in public in the USA." He then added -

"A recent Gallup poll found the sharpest decline in acceptance of same-gender relationships among adults in the US since at least 2001, the earliest data available from the polling firm."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/01/lgbtq-homophobia-rise-new-york  

The names I have quoted above are merely a small fraction of those murdered in the USA only because they were gay. To their murderers they were not men; not living, breathing, loving human beings. They were objects of hate and violence. Exactly the sort of hate and violence that is now being preached by Kirk and his hideous group of followers and others around the USA, much of it directed at the gay community and using lies, ghastly insinuations and bigotry to fuel their agenda. If he did not deserve to die, did 21-year old Matthew Shepard deserve to be beaten, tortured and then left to die such a hideous and prolonged death? His killer's girlfriend had informed the police that he had been motivated by anti-gay sentiment.

Gays have not killed hate. They have not killed bigotry "all over the planet". Try telling that to gay men in the 64 countries that still have anti-homosexual laws in their criminal code. In six countries the penalty is death. In another five countries the penalty is vague but death is a definite possibility. In Brunei, a gay man can even be stoned to death. We must face facts. We have not won!

[Suckrates]

PLEASE someone,  get the Governor of Utah an intervention...  At a press conference today announcing the capture of Kirks shooting suspect, the verbose Governor illustrated an extreme case of "diarrhea of the mouth", which IMO diminished everything he was TRYING to say.   His comments came off as sermon like and preachy, the last thing Americans need to hear at this time.   It was performative at best.   

If the Utah governor is an example of the best we have,  than we have TO DO BETTER......

And the cherry on the cake was FBI director Kash (eyes) Patel grandstanding about the greatness and proficiency of the FBI, omitting the fact that HE bungled the information that was given the public BY HIM at the onset of the investigation.   After he completed his self praise, he left the podium,  only to reappear moments later when someone probably reminded him that he forgot to Praise Pam Bondi and the DOJ,  and he quickly "corrected" that error..... gushing over her too !  

[RockyRoadTravel]

17 hours ago, Suckrates said:

Tell us what you think, Rocky,  especially since you posted this twice....😉

The functionality of this site is limited at times, I couldn't delete either of those posts.  

[RockyRoadTravel]

15 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I found most of @stevenkesslar's post heartwarming and thank him for it. But that does not necessarily mean I agree with it. Yes the gay movement finally overcame its many obstacles - more or less - but it took time. It may have been a movement based on love but the opposing side did not sit back and willingly let the gays march in. Many actually resorted to murder. Just in the USA alone who murdered Sal Mineo and why? Who murdered Harvey Milk and why? Who murdered Julio Rivera and why? Who murdered Than Nguyen for why? Who murdered Nicholas West and why? Who murdered Matthew Shepard and why? Who murdered Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder and why? Who murdered Steen Fenrich in New York, had his body dismembered and the words "gay nigger number one" scratched on his skull along with his social security number? The "why" in this case is not necessary as it is obvious. That poor man's step-father murdered him and then killed himself. 

The fact is that love has not won. It has made giant strides but it is still attacked and is still on the defensive in many places. The Conservative agenda is still very much a homophobic one. In an article in The Guardian on 1 September 2023, New York journalist broadcaster Dan Clark who had come out 20 years earlier wrote, "I have never, in my adult life, felt less safe to be gay in public in the USA." He then added -

"A recent Gallup poll found the sharpest decline in acceptance of same-gender relationships among adults in the US since at least 2001, the earliest data available from the polling firm."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/01/lgbtq-homophobia-rise-new-york  

The names I have quoted above are merely a small fraction of those murdered in the USA only because they were gay. To their murderers they were not men; not living, breathing, loving human beings. They were objects of hate and violence. Exactly the sort of hate and violence that is now being preached by Kirk and his hideous group of followers and others around the USA, much of it directed at the gay community and using lies, ghastly insinuations and bigotry to fuel their agenda. If he did not deserve to die, did 21-year old Matthew Shepard deserve to be beaten, tortured and then left to die such a hideous and prolonged death? His killer's girlfriend had informed the police that he had been motivated by anti-gay sentiment.

Gays have not killed hate. They have not killed bigotry "all over the planet". Try telling that to gay men in the 64 countries that still have anti-homosexual laws in their criminal code. In six countries the penalty is death. In another five countries the penalty is vague but death is a definite possibility. In Brunei, a gay man can even be stoned to death. We must face facts. We have not won!

The right-wing agenda is based on the promotion of fear.  

[Suckrates]

1 hour ago, RockyRoadTravel said:

The functionality of this site is limited at times, I couldn't delete either of those posts.  

[Suckrates]

Personally, I'm already bored and tired of all the repetitious political rhetoric around the killing.....and of the inauthenticity and hypocrisy of the people speaking it. 

*this is NOT who we are

*Violence is NOT the answer

*and the expected blaming of the left by the right, with subsequent calls for retribution by sectors of the right

All these political words are bought and paid for, and these politicians are simply doing their jobs to hopefully appease their voters.   IF this is NOT who we are, it wouldnt be happening.   Apparently IT IS WHO WE ARE, NOW !     And until people recognize and can speak truthfully about it,  we will get nowhere,  As well ADD ignoring the need for and possibility of GUN CONTROL.   By consistently turning their heads away and closing their ears,  all these politicians are showing us WHO we are, and how THEY really feel about whats happening.  Truth be told,  THEY DONT CARE,  and they will continue lobbying the gun makers, and accepting donor money......no matter how many people die....

They show NO feelings about the deaths of young kids in their classrooms, but we are expected to lose our minds over the political death of a nasty, hateful, divisive person whose goal was to build a huge coalition of like minded MAGA Youth who believe in white nationalism and Facist rule.....  While entitled to their beliefs, their ideology is counter productive to the success and growth of a FREE America and equality for all.   So, I am over this Charlie Kirk shit....  The way I see it,  one less hateful, harmful  MAGA to worry about.    I will NEVER advocate for violence to solve these issues,  but I cant be sad it happened either. 

If you set out to divide and spread hate,  and deny people grace and equality for self serving power and control, that HATE may just come for YOU !  

And THATS my "Probably Unpopular opinion"....

[stevenkesslar]

20 hours ago, PeterRS said:

The fact is that love has not won. It has made giant strides but it is still attacked and is still on the defensive in many places. The Conservative agenda is still very much a homophobic one. In an article in The Guardian on 1 September 2023, New York journalist broadcaster Dan Clark who had come out 20 years earlier wrote, "I have never, in my adult life, felt less safe to be gay in public in the USA." He then added -

"A recent Gallup poll found the sharpest decline in acceptance of same-gender relationships among adults in the US since at least 2001, the earliest data available from the polling firm."

I don't disagree with a thing you said.   

Here's a cold fact.

Charlie Kirk is dead.  He will never win his fight against same sex marriage.  He is dead and the dead can't fight.

You and I are alive.  We are part of a large community with lots of allies who won the fight for same sex marriage,   Let's see.  How long was same sex marriage illegal?  Let me think.  Oh, right.  Pretty much for all of human history.

So that's a pretty big victory.  Oh, and did I mention?  Charlie Kirk is dead.  He can't fight.   Sorry Charlie.   

Of course, Harvey Milk's death didn't stop the movement for LGBTQ rights.  And Charlie Kirk's death won't stop the conservatives.  As you note, bigotry is on a roll among Republicans.

And I do think the polling is pretty clear that the slippage is mostly among Republicans.   Trump has empowered all kinds of bigotry and hate.  He's a small weak man and a hater.  But the people who admire him seem to admire that part of him as well.

So I didn't say love won for all time and bigotry ended for all time.  Again, I agree with everything you said.  We are describing two sides of the same complex experience.  I'm glad you posted what you did.

That said, I think in a moment like this it is important to note that when it came to same sex marriage and LGBTQ rights more broadly, love and tolerance really did win.  Hate and violence did not win.  And that was OUR decision, collectively, to do it that way.  

I will repeat.  I am prouder to be Gay now than I am to be an American.

[Suckrates]

28 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

I don't disagree with a thing you said.   

Here's a cold fact.

Charlie Kirk is dead.  He will never win his fight against same sex marriage.  He is dead and the dead can't fight.

You and I are alive.  We are part of a large community with lots of allies who won the fight for same sex marriage,   Let's see.  How long was same sex marriage illegal?  Let me think.  Oh, right.  Pretty much for all of human history.

So that's a pretty big victory.  Oh, and did I mention?  Charlie Kirk is dead.  He can't fight.   Sorry Charlie.   

Of course, Harvey Milk's death didn't stop the movement for LGBTQ rights.  And Charlie Kirk's death won't stop the conservatives.  As you note, bigotry is on a roll among Republicans.

And I do think the polling is pretty clear that the slippage is mostly among Republicans.   Trump has empowered all kinds of bigotry and hate.  He's a small weak man and a hater.  But the people who admire him seem to admire that part of him as well.

So I didn't say love won for all time and bigotry ended for all time.  Again, I agree with everything you said.  We are describing two sides of the same complex experience.  I'm glad you posted what you did.

That said, I think in a moment like this it is important to note that when it came to same sex marriage and LGBTQ rights more broadly, love and tolerance really did win.  Hate and violence did not win.  And that was OUR decision, collectively, to do it that way.  

I will repeat.  I am prouder to be Gay now than I am to be an American.

Sis, lovely sentiments, but PLEASE dont lose sight of the fact that there are tons more people (and growing) out there like Charlie Kirk that want to STOMP on your pride, and end your existence..

Gays have been facing this hatred and revulsion for decades.  I REFUSE to be outraged by the death of Kirk,  when I know he and his MAGA coalition wanted nothing LESS for me !   Like I've said before, be careful where hate is aimed, because it may just very well find YOU first....

And now, with our dictatorial leader calling for vengeance and REVENGE for Kirks death, instead of Peace and unity, WE are in deep shit !

Nothing is more dangerous than a MAGA scorned,  or perhaps an "armed" MAGA scorned.