PeterRS

I remember first hearing about box jellyfish appearing off Phuket's west coast about 10 years ago. A tourist had died after being stung. The Thai media did not cover the story but the news media in other parts of Asia did. I remember something about fishermen having caught a few in their nets, and one reporter questioning if a few had been caught how many more remained uncaught in the waters. Since then there have been other stories and other deaths, notably off Koh Samui. Koh Phangan has nets and warning signs about not playing in the water outside those areas. It also has bottles of vinegar which is the recommended initial treatment until getting an affected person quickly to hospital. The boy had been playing outside the area covered by nets. His father did use vinegar on the stings but his son died on the way to hospital. From what I recall, the warming of the water around Thailand has led these lethal jellyfish to move north from their traditional habitat around Australia. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2173495/israeli-boy-dies-from-box-jellyfish-sting-on-koh-phangan

Slightly off track, having mentioned SABENA's acronym, the only better one I know is that for LUFTHANSA - Let Us Fuck The Hostesses And Not Say Anything!

The number of general covid threads seems to have been reduced to @JKane's amusing one featuring Covid Dark Humor and those speculating when Thailand will open up to tourism again. But covid is still killing far too many people and inevitably some of us are affected as friends die. One friend aged 67 and an expert in his field (not medicine!) and therefore a frequent traveller much of each year went with his partner to spend a week at their holiday house in Greece in late-July. He then had to be in north Italy for a series of business meetings while his partner returned to London. A few days later my friend returned to get vaccinated, having stupidly missed an earlier slot. He was soon in hospital and on a ventilator. Two weeks ago he died. I first met him 45 years ago. Sadly this is not an unusual tale. How many of us have known one or more who have died of this dreadful pandemic?

Eisenhower's warning about the rise of military/industrial complex comes to mind. Important sometimes to realise the context and why he included this in this farewell speech (the use of bold face is mine). "A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction... "This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. "We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."

I agree. My concerns remain the very small sample study, the geographical spread of the respondents being limited to rural areas in the north east and the south, and the fact that the interviews were conducted almost 10 years ago. Since technological advances play a part in the study, these will certainly in part be outdated. I am certain the responses of the boys will be illuminating. I'll not be spending £80 on the book but hope someone may eventually post their views on it here.

I see that this is part of a short series of books on Studies on Sexuality, Gender and Culture. According to the introductory blurb on the Anthem Press site, "the series encourages detailed study of intimate sexual meanings, love and romance, gender and sexual relationships and institutions, including the formation of relevant public policies and education. The series is interested in changing meanings of intimacy and courtship, as well as the extension of research into public policies in areas such as sexual citizenship, sex and moral panics, sexual migration, sexual health and sexual identity movements in society and online, the redefinition of gender and belief in religion and the contribution of sexuality to social inequality in Western nations." Given that last phrase, I am rather surprised that the series has a book on Thai society! However, I see from the Cambridge University Press website that there is a direct quote from the book's Introduction. "Of the 25 young men in this study 20 were Buddhist; 4 were Muslim and 1 was Christian. I had expected that including young men from the south and the northeast in the study would lead to a certain variety in terms of interpretations of homosexuality that could partly be derived from the young men's religion. However, the four Muslim men in the study seemed to be Muslim in name only; they hardly ever went to the mosque or attended other religious services or events. They were recruited from Phuket, Pattalung and Nakhon Sri Thammarat, which are provinces where only a small percentage of the population is Muslim. For security reasons, I was unable to recruit men in the four ‘troubled provinces’ in the south of the country, where Islam has a much stronger role in everyday life and where life for a young homosexual man is likely to be very different. The influence of Islam on the development of the sexual subjectivity of young same-sex-attracted men could therefore not be studied in sufficient depth and detail in this study." I'd love to know the age range of the young men in the study and how they were selected. A study of just 25 from around the country does seem to be a rather small sample. I wonder also from what social backgrounds they were selected. Since some had found their way into sex work and had a desire to find a wealthy long term partner, how many, I wonder, were from a higher social stratum and sought a career starting with University after school? The latter, in my view, have an even greater effect on the economy and positions in society. Also would any in that group see a necessity to restrain their gay selves in order to fit in as a professional working in Thailand's conservative society? Perhaps these questions are answered in the book. I hope so. And i hope it will be worth the advertised £80 per copy!

Alitalia has been in its death throes for many years and its demise is hardly a surprise. The Italian government tried to keep it alive without success. I believe Delta and Easyjet had expressed interest in taking it over a few years ago. But the talks came to nothing. I only once did a long haul on Alitalia and a few inter-Europe flights. For my money it served the best coffee in the air, but not much else! Reminds me a little of the Belgian airline SABENA which went bankrupt in 2001. Its acronym amongst frequent travellers was Such A Bloody Experience, Never Again!

Let's remember that during the months you were in Thailand on your last trip, the country was more of less completely open. There had been relatively few cases and only one relatively short lockdown in April/May 2020. The second wave at the Samui Prakan fish market in December did not have much of an overall effect. It was the third wave with the Delta variant that started in early April that has ravaged the country, I assume just as you were flying home. I would not place bets on November/December this year, but hope I am wrong. I think @z909 's estimate of March 2022 is more likely.

A propos the amusing, and sadly true, anecdote in @JKane's post above about Ronald Reagan whose determination not to acknowledge HIV-AIDS as the massive health disaster all his medical advisers tried to drum into him for years and who did not even mention the illness until his old gay pal Rock Hudson died, had he acted much earlier perhaps there would now be a vaccine. Perhaps. too. millions need not have died. Perhaps, too, the world could have saved trillions of $$ spent to date on HIV-AIDS programmes and research. It always amazes me that American 'freedoms' mean that a very large number of people claim they have the right to decide whether they are vaccinated or not. If the country was at war, those freedoms would be quite seriously and legally curtailed. With most of the anti-vexers being Trump supporters and with Trump having told Bob Woodward that covid is a "war", one wonders why such anti-social people are allowed to get away with the stupid freedom argument at this time. It's almost as though they are perfectly happy to be at war with their fellow citizens whom they could infect and whose hospitals are once again chock full of covid cases. Less than 2,500 Americans have died in 20 years of war in far off Afghanistan. Nearly 640,000 have died at home of covid. The cost of the war in Afghanistan is acknowledged at just under US$1 trillion. The losses amounting from covid so far - $16 trillion. Priorities seem amazingly twisted.

I have a friend in Bangkok whose bf is Vietnamese and they are very happy together. On a solo trip to Danang before the lockdown I had an amazing evening with a young Vietnamese boy who had clicked on an app. He was not a money boy, just a gay guy desperate to meet a farang. I wonder if the Vietnamese boys who work in the bars in Thailand are mostly straight and therefore less interested in sex with other guys.

I wonder who said that for I have not heard it before. I am certain the Thais are almost as active as before and they like sex as much as anyone, if not more so! What I have heard said is that the commercial tourist sex trade is in long time decline. I myself have said it for, as you know, I believe that it is almost certainly true.

It's the glass half empty in me. I can't help it LOL

From what I read, the British media are in general furious at the lack of consultation from their American allies (a lack of consultation also extended to NATO), at the speed in which the withdrawal had to take place and the disaster of having to leave behind Afghan allies and their families. Not a day has gone by without British vets excoriating the Americans because some of the Afghanis who helped them are now stuck in the country and liable to be killed. The media also point out that the British started pulling Afghanis out well before the Americans started on the paperwork. With fingers being pointed in all directions, including as I pointed out in a recent post the media itself, there is another group that one British vet is blaming in part for the disaster that took place two weeks ago - the independent contractors brought in largely by the Americans to do some of their work. This was also the case in Iraq - and we know what a disaster that turned out to be. Let's not forget that in that debacle it was Vice President DIck Cheney's former company Halliburton that was first awarded a US$7 billion contract (non-biddable by others) for private sector work in the country. Later in the war, that number rose to a whopping $31 billion. Even later, Halliburton's subsidiary KBR was found guilty of over billing. By then, though, Halliburton had distanced itself from KBR by selling off KBR in 2007. This is one UK vet's comment. When I was in Afghanistan, private military contractors numbered almost 30,000. Some were engaged in protection tasks, but many more were responsible for training and mentoring Afghans who held positions of significant influence. They advised on intelligence, war-fighting, diplomacy, policing, you name it. Some of them were doing their best. Many more didn’t give a damn. Many were on six figures and had been for years. Afghanistan for them was a cash cow, a way of putting their kids through college (most were American) or paying off a mortgage. In sum, there were too many poorly qualified people working without accountability, getting paid far too much. If you want an answer to the question of why Afghanistan’s military crumbled in weeks, take a long hard look at their so-called mentors. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/27/afghanistan-nato-mission-corruption-military-soldier

I think @numazu's predictions are about right, in my view. I agree it will be the Asian gay market that revives first. From chatting to a few over recent years and judging from a couple of internet chat rooms based elsewhere in the region, Asians are generally more interested in massage and to a lesser extent saunas than they are in go-go bars. This is especially true of Singaporeans, Malaysians and Taiwanese - i.e. those from countries where individuals or small groups of gay guys are quite regular travellers. They are also perhaps more adventurous in finding spas out of the city centre. But the quality of the massage is usually as important as the afters, and any new establishments will need to ensure their masseurs are trained. Asians had been keeping Bangkok's go-go bars alive for some time, both on stage and off. I know that many of the audience would go for a massage or to Babylon or Chakran before going to a bar - but to see the show rather than a group of scantily clad guys doing a soft shoe shuffle on stage. After all, they had already satisfied their sexual desires that evening. Not having been a regular for some years, I depend on reports from friends, but it does seem to me that as a general rule not so many go to take off a boy. Having occasionally been with friends at Dick's or one of the beer bars in Soi Twilight in its last year or two, it was obvious that trade for the go-go bars was quite limited until after 10:00pm. And after the shows, there would be a major exodus. That means the bars will once again depend on drink prices to keep their heads above water. That will deter few Asians, I believe, but surely put off the farang who seemed constantly to complain about rising prices. Again from what I read and hear, the sexual prowess of the boys from neighbouring countries varies, some exceptional but more duds than with the Thai boys. Also many seemed to be working illegally so that if the BiB appeared they would instantly disappear. Is that really likely to change? Will those boys have any chance of a proper work visa? Surely not. In the old days 20+ years ago (sorry guys, I know we should be looking forward, not back) the Thai boys on stage usually seemed to be having fun and were genuinely pleased to get an off. Certainly as far as I was concerned I was rarely disappointed with an off. Which brings me to the next point. We know that improved economic circumstances were one reason for the Thai boys gradually leaving the bar scene. I assume many must now be suffering badly. Is it likely that this will drive more Thai boys back to the bars in the hope that this will financially be much more remunerative, at least in the short to medium term? That could be the fillip the bars desperately need.

Apologies. Yes, I should have written Ubon.

"Jo Ferrari" has turned himself him. He claims the reason for the killing was his attempt to "destroy the drug trade" - not extortion! Well, I wonder how many actually believe that! Could he believe that since Thaksin got away with around 2,500 extra-judicial killings in his war on drugs, he was made in same mould? That would really be a joke! It was extortion pure and simple and it went wrong! Will he get prison? Now that really is the question! https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/2172159/jo-ferrari-turns-himself-in

An interesting insight into Biden's policy from a biography of the diplomat Richard Holbrooke whom Biden knew well. In the book he is quoted as saying that America has no obligation to the many Afghans who were then working alongside the Americans and placed their trust in the US to get them out once the war ended. "Fuck that, we don't have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it." So much for the empathetic President. Anyone who would even consider uttering such dreadful words was of course going to get out as fast as possible. "Fuck" the tens of thousands of Afghan helpers! To me that a disgrace! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/joe-biden-afghanistan-kabul-airport-bombs

I was amazed - there were lots. If you look at the last photo of the Udon Festival, the boys carrying the beauty queen all look great. At that time Udon had a gay sauna quite close to the river. Not busy when I was there, but the other patrons seemed to enjoy the company of a farang! Not sure if it still exists.

Now that is a very positive outlook. Bravo! Remember also that in addition to cities and sights, Thailand has some amazing Festivals. We all know about Songkran and Loy Krathong, but I wonder how many have ever ventured to the Candle Festival in Ubon Ratchathani or perhaps the most famous of the Ghost Festivals in Dansai in Loei Province. Loei itself is a fascinating Province to explore as it hardly seems like Thailand: lush, green, hilly, it even has a vineyard. These two Festivals coincide with the start of Buddhist Lent in the summer and the dates are often not confirmed until about 6 months in advance. Also Dansai is a small village of only around 10,000 people. There is only one good hotel that is within walking distance, the Phunacome up in the hill behind the town. It has an excellent shuttle service if you don't want to climb the hill. But there are nearby hotels that provide transport to and from the Festival. The Candle Festival is not a Parade of people holding candles! Every temple n the city has artisans spending a month beforehand decorating trucks and lorries with wax carvings, mostly of Buddhist scenes. The Parade is so long and encompasses not just the 40 or so trucks but also various other traditional activities. Lots of cute guys there! The Ghost Festival is spread over 3 days but I found the day of the Parade the most fascinating. I throughly recommend them as fantastic days. Udon Candle Festival Loei Ghost Festival

A lot of interesting comments from a variety of former generals and, importantly in my view, US and British vets, arising from the terrorist bombing at Kabul airport yesterday. Almost all is criticism of the Biden administration for not having started the evacuation, particularly of the Afghan assistants, interpreters etc. and there families much sooner. Others have asked why the US, knowing well in advance of the size of the exercise in getting many tens of thousands of Afghan helpers and their families out, did not also hold on to the heavily fortified Bagram Air base so that there were two exits from the country. Bagram could also handle the large aircraft which use Kabul and it's far more defensible! One, though, questioned whether the issues of war can be left to a President as Commander in Chief. Of course each President has a large body of military and other experts surrounding him. But he does not have to obey them - as far as I know. This pundit pointed out that Bush was determined to go into Iraq to finish what his father had started - come what may. His immediate coterie of conservative neo-cons were with him. Many others were not, at least hoping he would wait until the UN weapons inspectors presented their final report and the UN passed a second resolution. As usual, the spin doctors were immediately at work - who can forget Condoleeza Rice's comments about mushroom clouds if Saddam was not stopped (one of many lies)? - and a spider's web of tales were fabricated in support. After 9/11 virtually all of Congress and the country was behind him. Biden has been against the adventure in Afghanistan for well over a decade and was determined to get out. Unlike Bush, we are told he overruled many of his immediate advisors and military chiefs in his haste to announce a date. He stuck to much of Trump's agreement made with the Taliban (made with the Mullah Pakistan/the US had incarcerated for 8 years) and went ahead with his decision without consulting his NATO allies, those very allies he had pledged to consult after Trump had paid virtually no attention to them. And then during the four months leading up to the August 31 date the US administration sat on its hands for much of that time. The vets are the most angry that many of the guys who helped them and who were promised that they and their families would be looked after are now stuck in a Taliban controlled country, many likely to die despite Mullah Baradar's sweet words.

Once gay tourists return, there will surely be an increase in demand for bars, massage spas and saunas. But those which are presently closed due to the lockdown are still having to pay rent and some staff costs. Pre-lockdown, reports on this forum suggested that outside of Bangkok Soi 4, there were few customers at the other venues. Once the lockdown and curfew eases or is cancelled, some patrons will return. But few tourists are likely to do so if only because there are so few of them around. So the chances that those which do manage to open can make up their losses in the medium term most surely be almost zero. Their financial situation will remain fragile. For those which have closed permanently, presumably the managements have given up the leases and have stopped paying rent on their premises. Without a sudden flood of new tourists, is it realistic to expect they will have sufficient available cash to find other premises, pay advance rent and key money, pay all the costs of renovating to provide proper services and pay some basic staff costs? My gut feel is that those which have closed will remain closed. They will not move elsewhere. After all, long before the pandemic, long-term popular and centrally located spas like Albury and Aqua closed because they just could not make ends meet. This may have been a result of rent increases or in the case of Albury a failling customer base after it moved from Suk Soi 11. But if they could not continue operating when tourism was still pretty high, what chance is there those who have closed with tourism almost zero when it is probably also true that the managements have substantial unpaid debts.

I was wrong and am pleased to admit that. I had misquoted the Reuters article which I linked. But even that has proved massively wrong.

If that is the case, then there are many dozens of posts if not 100s where news media articles are printed along with the link. My understanding is that along as the link is added, there is no issue with material printed in a public source. NYT articles have also been printed in whole or in part. That's fine for you. Not for me, thank you. I have little interest in most of the US news included in the NYT. Sometimes I will check the International NYT which has some its major articles. But try finding a copy in Thailand during lockdown!

Another perceptive article in today's Guardian newspaper. It still leads with the chaos and catastrophe of the US and NATO powers departure from Afghanistan prompted by Biden's screwing up by rushing out so disastrously. But this focuses much more on those warmongers and especially the media which gloried in the invasions of Afghanistan and also of Iraq. Why the media? "Because to acknowledge the mistakes of the men who prosecuted this war would be to expose the media’s role in facilitating it." Excerpts from an article in The Guardian 26 August - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/25/blame-afghanistan-war-media-intervention Any fair reckoning of what went wrong in Afghanistan, Iraq and the other nations swept up in the “war on terror” should include the disastrous performance of the media. Cheerleading for the war in Afghanistan was almost universal, and dissent was treated as intolerable. After the Northern Alliance stormed into Kabul, torturing and castrating its prisoners, raping women and children, the Telegraph urged us to “just rejoice, rejoice”, while the Sun ran a two-page editorial entitled “Shame of the traitors: wrong, wrong, wrong … the fools who said Allies faced disaster”. In the Guardian, Christopher Hitchens, a convert to US hegemony and war, marked the solemnity of the occasion with the words: “Well, ha ha ha, and yah, boo. It was … obvious that defeat was impossible. The Taliban will soon be history.” . . . Everyone I know in the US and the UK who was attacked in the media for opposing the war received death threats. Barbara Lee, the only member of Congress who voted against granting the Bush government an open licence to use military force, needed round-the-clock bodyguards. Amid this McCarthyite fervour, peace campaigners such as Women in Black were listed as “potential terrorists” by the FBI. The then US secretary of state, Colin Powell, sought to persuade the emir of Qatar to censor Al Jazeera, one of the few outlets that consistently challenged the rush to war. After he failed, the US bombed Al Jazeera’s office in Kabul. The broadcast media were almost exclusively reserved for those who supported the adventure. The same thing happened before and during the invasion of Iraq, when the war’s opponents received only 2% of BBC airtime on the subject. Attempts to challenge the lies that justified the invasion – such as Saddam Hussein’s alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction and his supposed refusal to negotiate – were drowned in a surge of patriotic excitement. So why is so much of the media so bloodthirsty? . . . An obvious answer is the old adage that “if it bleeds it leads”, so there’s an inbuilt demand for blood . . . Another factor in the UK is a continued failure to come to terms with our colonial history. For centuries the interests of the nation have been conflated with the interests of the rich, while the interests of the rich depended to a remarkable degree on colonial loot and the military adventures that supplied it. Supporting overseas wars, however disastrous, became a patriotic duty. For all the current breastbeating about the catastrophic defeat in Afghanistan, nothing has been learned. The media still regale us with comforting lies about the war and occupation. They airbrush the drone strikes in which civilians were massacred and the corruption permitted and encouraged by the occupying forces. They seek to retrofit justifications to the decision to go to war, chief among them securing the rights of women. But this issue, crucial as it was and remains, didn’t feature among the original war aims. Nor, for that matter, did overthrowing the Taliban. Bush’s presidency was secured, and his wars promoted, by American ultra-conservative religious fundamentalists who had more in common with the Taliban than with the brave women seeking liberation. In 2001, the newspapers now backcasting themselves as champions of human rights mocked and impeded women at every opportunity . . . You can get away with a lot in the media, but not, in most outlets, with opposing a war waged by your own nation – unless your reasons are solely practical. If your motives are humanitarian, you are marked from that point on as a fanatic. Those who make their arguments with bombs and missiles are “moderates” and “centrists”; those who oppose them with words are “extremists”. The inconvenient fact that the “extremists” were right and the “centrists” were wrong is today being strenuously forgotten.

For most of us the NYT is behind a firewall. I don't live in the USA and a subscription is therefore rather a waste. Would you be very kind and copy and paste the article? Thank you.