Gaybutton

The only way I know is to change your phone number and never give out the new one to any businesses. And then you have to pray that the number isn't an old one that someone else no longer has. Either way, sooner or later they'll catch up somehow to your number again. If you have to call one of the businesses, don't call from your mobile phone. As soon as you do, via Caller ID, now they'll have your number. Even if you do get another phone number, I don't know whether that will help. The company, 1-2-Call, DTAC, or whatever obviously has your number. I'm not sure whether they sell telephone number lists or not, but I do know that I quite often get text message and graphic message ads from companies I've never heard of. I don't know where else those companies could have gotten my phone number. I've learned to just live with it. When the ads come in, I simply delete them later without bothering to read any of them. Half of them are in Thai anyhow.

If you would like to watch the full interview, click the following: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/nationvdo/showvdo.php?id=2324&cateid=13

I don't think it matters where the servers are. The servers could be located in another country entirely. What matters is what is posted, what is allowed to stand as a post, whether the post violates Thai law, whether the post can be construed under Thai law as libel or defamation, what actions the board owners and moderators take in response to the post, and whether those actions are taken in a reasonable and timely manner. If legal action is taken, then the Thai authorities are going to go after whoever is readily accessible. In other words, me. Again, I'm the only moderator on this board who is a permanent resident of Thailand and it is quite possible I would be the first person served and/or arrested. While some people seem perfectly willing to have me take that risk, while they would be risk free themselves, what it all boils down to is that is not a risk I am willing to take. Suppose I do start letting people write those kinds of posts. While some are certain I am going way overboard in my position about this and the fact that I am coming on so strongly and belligerently about it, what do they say to me if I do find myself in legal trouble because of those kinds of posts? Sorry?

What took place with Lawrence is none of your business. You are assuming you saw all of his posts and know all the facts. You didn't and you don't. Very sorry, but I am not going to discuss my actions regarding Lawrence or any other posters with you. Regarding your list, he could be Mother Theresa for all I care, but I go by a person's activities on this board and I feel no need to justify my own actions to anyone other than GT. If Lawrence wishes to discuss it with me, he knows how to send PMs and Email and probably knows how to find me if he wants to discuss it personally. And, by the way, he has not been banned from this board. The only people who have ever been banned from this board have been banned by consensus of the moderators, and no one has ever been banned by a unilateral decision by me. Whether or not you like my comments to him, like my avatar, or like my general demeanor is a matter of indifference to me. If you don't like what you see on television, change the station. Same applies here. Once again, no matter what you say or how many criticisms of me you wish to post, I am not going to permit being subjected to a possible libel action. Ok, and on that note I'm all finished discussing this at all. There is nothing more for me to say that I haven't repeatedly said already. Some people say I always insist on having the last word. This time, if you want it, you get to have the last word.

I can't answer any of that because we were never given the reason for it. Even my attorney was unable to get anyone to tell him the reason. The Thai government, or some agency of it, did the blocking.

That is correct and that is what my own Thai attorney told me. I'll go along with KhorTose in that it is unlikely that the board, its owner, or its moderators would be sued or arrested, but 'unlikely' isn't good enough for me, not when my entire future depends on it. If it is so important to some people around here to put down businesses or individuals, then they're going to have to find someplace to do it other than this board. I will also repeat that if anyone thinks his post might be questionable enough that I would delete it, then all he has to do is send me a copy of what he intends to post and ask. If the post won't place me in jeopardy, then I have no problem with it. But if I feel that it could place me in that sort of jeopardy, then I won't allow it.

When it comes to the possibility of me ending up involved in a lawsuit, ending up having the police knocking on my door, or ending up being forced to leave Thailand, you need to understand there is no way in hell I am going to allow that to happen. It is pointless for you to keep arguing with me about it because I will not . . . repeat I will not . . . permit that to happen, especially just because a few people want to put down a business. I meant exactly what I said. Normally I'm a pretty nice guy, or I at least try to be, but I draw the line when I've got somebody trying to get me to place myself in that kind of jeopardy. I do not apologize for what I said. In fact I'll repeat what I said: If you want to write posts that are potentially libelous under Thai law, then either post on a board that allows it or start your own board. You go right ahead and place yourself in jeopardy if you wish, but don't even think about trying to place me in it. As long as I am involved as a moderator on this board it's not going to happen. You're not going to come up with an argument to convince me otherwise, so I suggest you drop it. Quite frankly, I don't give a good goddam whether you think I'm being impolite about it or not. In case you haven't guessed yet, I'm extremely angry at your continuous attempts to get me to permit those kinds of posts. How dare you try to do that to me! What, exactly, are you trying to achieve? GT might as well save his money about going to a Thai attorney. I've already done that. I did that when I woke up one morning and found my own board blocked, and I am not going to allow it whether he finds an attorney who says it's acceptable or not. My own attorney said it isn't, and that's that. I don't know how I can make it any more clear.

Thank you, and I rest my case. Someone out there wants to post something Thailand construes as libelous? Good. Start your own message board. Try it here and your post is gone. Very simple.

I'm semi with you. I don't think anyone would be so foolish as to say there is no corruption in Thailand. I think corruption plays a role in this issue, but I don't think corruption is the only factor. Just how much of it is attributable to corruption is unknown to us, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that it does play a significant part. One reason I get upset over these pedophile arrests is because so much of it occurs in Pattaya, so much of it involves gay pedophiles, and it gives a bad reputation to everyone gay in Thailand, especially Pattaya. The stereotype even occurs among our perceptions of ourselves. It hasn't been all that long since there was a string of posts saying that simply being present in Sunee Plaza means you're a pedophile. That's nonsense, of course, but the fact remains there are members of the gay community who are convinced of it.

Here is Blue Elephant's web site: http://www.blueelephant.com/bangkok/index.html Did you know that Blue Elephant sells some of their products right here in Pattaya? In Carrefour they have a booth right in front of the fresh fish section.

Damn it, GT, I told you not to tell anyone what I said . . .

He came, with two or three other guys, while I was there yesterday evening. I didn't ask how often he is there or how long he stays.

What's that old business adage? Location, location, location. Ok, Mr. Candle Paradise Spa, I think it's about time for a serious response from you. You chose to advertise here and now you're seeing posts from people who have tried to find you. Some can't find you at all and one who could doesn't want to go in because of the darkness of the entrance. I think you're going to have to do much more than provide a map that people can't seem to follow or tell people to have the taxi driver call for directions that even he can't seem to follow. How do you intend to address these problems?

I suppose this is a foolish question, but after you went to all the trouble of finding it, why didn't you go in?

I just returned from visiting Allen. He recognized me immediately, broke out into a big smile, and said he is so happy and surprised to see me. He still is capable of speaking, but very softly. He has plenty of good care. 3 college students are with him. Traveler Jim was there and so was the Vice President of Asian University. I hope everyone who knows Allen will have a chance to see him. It really does perk him up and it helps to know so many people care. At this point I only hope it is over for him painlessly and quickly.

The answer is you don't know. You have no way to know. You have no control over that. The money will be deposited into your account just after midnight, New York time. Suppose you don't get the best rate of the day? What can you possibly do about it? But if I were you, I'd do the transaction as soon as you can. The baht is still strengthening against the dollar. You might get the best rate of the day, but that's still likely to be less going into your account than you would have received the day before.

If Thai consulates are going to start denying visas unless the applicant applies in his home country, then Thailand isn't shooting itself in the foot. Thailand is shooting itself in the head! This is ridiculous. If a person is eligible for a visa, then why should he have to return to his specific home country to apply for one? If he can afford to leave Thailand and go to a neighboring country to apply for a new visa, and then return to Thailand, then obviously he has the means to remain in Thailand and contribute to the economy, not sponge from it. It's all on my "I Don't Get It" list.

Since they announced it in advance, I doubt there will be any fall-guys arrested at all. I agree with you. What kind of crackdown is it if they announce it in advance? That gives plenty of time for the people who should be arrested to simply skedaddle . . . temporarily. This, to me, seems right up there with crackdowns on Beach Road prostitution, crackdowns on counterfeit goods, and crackdowns on just about everything else. I don't know why, but the word "bullshit" comes to mind.

Yes and no. There seems to be some confusion as to who did what to who. The newspaper article says it was the German guy who was arrested after taking the 14-year old off, but it also says it was the boy's parents who filed the complaint with the police. The Drummond article says it was the Englishman. Unless both men took a 14-year old off from the bar, then something is wrong with the stories. If it was the German, then according to the news article the arrest occurred after the boy's parents complained. I raised a question and I'll repeat it here: What were the boy's parents doing by allowing their 14-year old son to work in a gay go-go bar in the first place, where being taken off is the goal? Did they claim they didn't know the boy was working there? If so, I didn't see anything about that in the article. Are the parents local in Pattaya? Do they live in a different city? If they live in a different city, what did they do, send their 14-year old son to go alone to Pattaya to seek his fortune? Also, how did the parents even know about the incident? Somehow I find it difficult to picture the boy calling his parents and saying, "Hi Mom. How are you? Oh, I'm fine. Today I did ok. I went with a farang and sucked his dick." Something is awfully strange about this story. Obviously, if the boy is 14, then the farang was nuts to take him home for sex. But the way in which the police became involved sure seems strange to me. But no matter how it all 'went down,' the moral of the story is the same thing so many of us have been preaching for years: Don't take a boy for sex unless he is at least 18-years old and can prove it.

While their people are living in poverty and starving, the so-called leaders of both countries, of course, live in the lap of luxury. Now they are playing with their new nuclear toys. I wonder how long the people will put up with it all. Where's Madame Defarge when you need her? The following appears in the BANGKOK POST: _____ Clinton fears NKorea-Burma nuclear link Writer: AFP Published: 22/07/2009 US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressed concerns on Wednesday that North Korea could be sharing nuclear technology with Burma, posing a worrying new threat to regional security. Clinton issued the warning as she arrived in the Thai resort island of Phuket for a major security forum at which the United States was to sign a treaty signalling its renewed commitment to Southeast Asia. She was due to meet her counterparts from Russia, China, Japan and South Korea for talks later Wednesday on restarting their stalled multilateral dialogue with Pyongyang over its increasingly aggressive nuclear programme. "We worry about the transfer of nuclear technology" from Stalinist North Korea to military-ruled Burma, Clinton said in an interview with Thailand's Nation TV. On Tuesday, she said Washington was taking "very seriously" reports of conventional military cooperation between the two pariah states, adding that it would be "destabilising for the region." Burma and North Korea, both isolated and under international sanctions, are set to dominate Clinton's two days of discussions with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) and broader Asean Regional Forum. Clinton was later set to sign a friendship pact with Southeast Asia in a sign of Washington's renewed interest to the region after nearly a decade in which it has been distracted by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. After arriving in Thailand Tuesday from New Delhi, Clinton said President Barack Obama's administration wants to send a strong message of engagement with the region after it was neglected by his predecessor George W. Bush. US influence over Asean has been largely supplanted by China, which inked the same treaty with the 10-country bloc six years ago. US officials said a key thrust of Clinton's debut at the forum would be to crank up pressure on North Korea to return to the nuclear disarmament talks after its recent missile and nuclear weapons tests. North Korean Foreign Minister Pak Ui-Chun declined to attend the meeting, instead sending a roving ambassador to Phuket, and Southeast Asian officials say the Pyongyang delegation is concerned about coming under pressure. Asean had asked China to play a key role in bringing North Korea back to the negotiating table, a Thai official said after the bloc's foreign ministers met their counterparts from China, Japan and South Korea on Wednesday. Washington is currently focused on implementing tough new UN sanctions, but officials said the US and its allies were ready to offer incentives to Pyongyang if it changed course -- something they did not expect any time soon. Suspicions about military cooperation between Burma and North Korea escalated after a US Navy destroyer last month began tracking a suspect North Korean ship that was reportedly heading for Burma. The vessel came under scrutiny under new UN sanctions designed to punish Pyongyang over its recent underground nuclear test and a series of rocket launches including a long-range projectile. Separately, a group of exiled Burma activists last month released pictures of what they said was a secret network of tunnels built by North Korean experts inside Burma. Clinton, meanwhile, also expressed concerns about the rights record of Burma, which has been slapped with US sanctions for its detention of political prisoners including pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi. Burma has sparked outrage by putting the Nobel Peace Prize winner on trial over an incident in which an American man swam to her lakeside house. Clinton said Wednesday in her television interview that expelling Burma from Asean "would be an appropriate policy change to consider" if the ruling junta does not release Aung San Suu Kyi. Obama has described the court proceedings as a "show trial", while talk of a revised US policy towards Burma has been on hold since the trial began.

During a time when the tourist industry is in such trouble, I just don't understand the logic, or lack thereof, of choosing now to put these kinds of crackdowns in place. I can certainly understand why Thailand would want to rid itself of low-life tourists who come here and cause problems, but I can't understand why they would want to make it so difficult for those who legitimately wish to stay longer in the country. Sometimes it seems as if Thailand excels at cutting off its own nose to spite its face. Any fool can see how much trouble the tourist industry is going through. Empty hotels, restaurants, stores, bars, etc. certainly tell the story. Businesses are closing down right and left, some temporarily and some permanently. One of the latest is the Art Caf

This is terribly sad. Allen is such a good guy and has done so much for all of us. It hurts to think of him in pain and dying like this. For his own sake I hope he goes quickly and easily, without having to suffer any further. Can you tell us about arrangements after he passes?

Note: The second story on this thread is especially interesting. This is the first time I've ever heard of a farang being arrested after taking a boy off from a bar. He was not arrested as a direct result of the off. He was arrested after the parents filed a complaint. The boy, according to the article, was 14. Now just what the parents were doing by allowing their 14 year old son to work at a go-go bar, and then complaining when he was taken off, goes beyond me, but according to the article, that's what took place. I'm also wondering how the parents even knew about the incident. What did the boy do, go home and say, "Hi Mom and Dad. Guess what? I just made 1000 baht giving a farang a blow job."? It seems to me there is more to this story than has thus far been published, but no matter what, make damned sure to check those ID's, folks. ________________ The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: for photos, see: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000009814 _____ TWO PAEDOPHILES ARRESTED SIMULTANEOUSLY IN PATTAYA Pattaya, July 22 [PDN] : Once more Pattaya has attracted bad press due to the less than savoury activities of some of its residents. Two paedophiles were both arrested in the same location, Park Reungreung Village, on the same day, with two consecutive arrest warrants for sexual assault on minors; one for a German and the other for a British national. The first accused was Mr. Gerhard Heiner Gatsche, 61, whose alleged offence was brought to the notice of the authorities by the mother of the 14-year-old boy he is accused of molesting, who took her son to report to the Children, Juvenile and Women’s Protection Division Region 2 and requested that the officials arrest Gatsche . After searching for further information and more evidence, the police team requested an arrest warrant from the Pattaya court, which it was duly granted on July 20, and numbered 688/2522. Subsequently, at 1:30 pm on 21 July 2009, Police Lieutenant Colonel Greetha Tunkanaruk and his police team of the Children, Juvenile and Women’s Protection Division Region 2 together with Mr. Supagon Noja of the Pattaya-based Child Protection and Development Centre went to arrest Gatsche at his house in the Park Roongreung Village in Central Pattaya. Gatsche told the reporter that he was shocked to see the police. He denied all the charges and said he had been living in the village in Pattaya for more than 20 years, apparently in mitigation. However, the truth will out when he goes to court in the near future. Gatsche had apparently met the boy, Golf [alias], at around 9.00 pm, on 30 May 2009, in Soi Sunee Plaza, South Pattaya, one of the gay pick-up venues, which also has a particularly bad reputation for furnishing under-age boys for the sexual predilections of those who favour such activities. It is alleged that after picking up the boy, Gatsche took him to his house, where the alleged offence took place; Gatsche afterwards paying the boy an unspecified amount of money. The 2nd case involved a British national, Robert Alexander Horsman,45. Armed with arrest warrant no. 688/2522, likewise issued by Pattaya Court on 20 July, the same official team arrested Horsman at 7.00 pm, on the same day, at another house in the same village, namely Park Roongreung Village in Central Pattaya. Police said that last year Horsman had apparently been drinking at a bar called “Look a-go-go”, also in Soi Sunee Plaza, where he met another 14-year-old a boy, whom he subsequently took to his house and had sex with. The incident was reported to police by the boy’s parents, leading to a search for the alleged offender by the police, and subsequent issuance of an arrest warrant. Despite the evidence, Horsman, like his co-offender, denied the charges and once again it will be up the court to prove his guilt. ____________________ And this, from PATTAYA ONE: for photos, see: http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/july/news_22_07_52.shtml _____ Suspected English Pedophile Arrested by Regional Police. Pattaya, July 22 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] : On Tuesday Night, officers from the Region 2 Child and Women’s Protection Unit based at Banglamung Police Station conducted their second arrest within the space of 12 hours at the Park Reunreung Village in Central Pattaya. Their target this time was Mr. Robert Alexander Horsman aged 45 from England. On the strength of arrest warrant number 687/2552 dated 20th July, he was detained and taken to the Police Station. The warrant stated that in 2008, a boy aged 14 had conducted oral sex on Mr. Horsman in exchange for money. The original complaint was made by the parents of the boy who stated that the pair met at the Look Bar located in Soi Sunee Plaza, South Pattaya. Mr. Horsman was arrested in March 2006 here in Pattaya accused of indecently assaulting 5 boys aged between 10 and 14 and also in December 2008 during “Operation Naga” which was a joint UK and Thai Operation to arrest suspected Pedophiles. He denies all allegations of the current charges brought against him and will appear in court in due course.

Well, today's a rainy day . . .

Damn! I forgot to bring my ten-gallon hat, spurs, and pair of six-guns when I came to Thailand. If I go to Jameson's that night, I'm going to feel so out of place . . .