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When you compare the taxes imposed on your New York hotel bills, isn't that based on your place of residence? It seems to me that in Thailand the 2 tier pricing is based on your race. Even those of us who reside in Thailand and can prove it are still charged the farang price, although every once in a while we manage to get a reduced price or the Thai price. Either way, I agree with you that the 2 tier pricing is unlikely to be the sole cause of people deciding not to come to Thailand. For most people it is a minor thing, but when you have enough minor things, eventually it all adds up to a major thing, and that's when people start deciding to have their holiday somewhere else, such as the Black Hole of Calcutta.

Actually, yes it is correct. Farang is one of those words that have more than just one definition, just as in English "rare" can mean scarce, but it can also mean the way you want your steak cooked. Farang does mean a Caucasian foreigner and it also is the Thai word for "guava." It is even spelled the same. You can easily check that out at: http://www.thai-language.com . In the "lookup" box enter 'guava.' Then enter 'foreigner.' You'll see for yourself.

This is the first I've ever heard of such a case and I'm not so sure I swallow the story quite the way it is told. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people pass through the airport every day. Why would these two be singled out to be victims of a crime like this? Nevertheless, if one assumes the story is true, then the obvious thing to do would be not to enter the duty free shops at all. If nothing else, based on other reported incidents I wouldn't want to be caught shoplifting in Thailand. A minor shoplifting incident in Thailand is often taken very seriously. You might recall the incident several weeks ago in which an Australian woman was accused of taking some sort of a place mat from a bar and damned near ended up with a prison sentence over the incident. It took requests from her government and a lot of publicity to get her out of it. I recall an incident not too long ago when a farang was caught shoplifting a couple batteries from a convenience store. He ended up in jail for about a week and paying a hefty fine, and I think he was damned lucky that nothing beyond that happened to him. When I go shopping, I keep the receipt with me until I've left the store and returned home. Even then, I keep it for a couple days before throwing it out. That might be a little over-cautious, but if someone ever tries to accuse me of shoplifting, I'm going to have the proof that I paid right there with me.

No need. You run a legitimate gay venue and you have our full support. In all honesty, I was not aware of the existence of Candle Paradise Spa at all until you posted. Next time I'm in Bangkok I intend to drop by and give it a try. I hope everyone else who reads this board does the same thing.

I don't see how what other countries and other cities do would be relevant. Somehow, I can't picture Philadelphia, for example, imposing fees for certain venues and justifying it by saying, "Well, that's how they do it in Thailand."

Do they truly believe if they start launching nuclear weapons at other countries they would have a prayer of surviving the outcome?

I would be happy if they do that, but we allow gay venues to post, no strings attached.

They don't. Farangs are Caucasian foreigners. You won't hear Thais referring to any other race as 'farang.'

I didn't say it was more objectionable. I said it is also objectionable. I really don't see the necessity for two tiered pricing at all, anywhere.

That's right, but I don't think that's going to happen. As I said on another thread, gay venues are welcome to advertise here without charge. I also said other gay venues advertise here. I don't understand what fountainhall has against this particular ad.

Of course not. I doubt that, in and of itself, would stop anyone from coming. It's the combination of all the factors, including that one, that stop people from coming.

Fountainhall, the one aspect of your post with which I disagree is that part in which you talk about the two tier policies in other countries. The fact that other countries do it does not, in my opinion, justify Thailand doing it in light of the current tourist industry troubles. I also don't see any reason why other countries do it. Again, how much could they really be making to justify the practice?

I'm with GT on this one. We have always allowed gay venues to post ads here without charge. Those 'floodgates' have been open since the very day this board came into existence. As long as the advertisers don't go overboard with it, why not? It brings more customers to the gay venues, and maybe helps to keep them from ending up closed due to lack of customers, and also lets the gay community know that these venues even exist. It also lets people know about it when special events are being planned. I regularly post Casa Pascal's menus and ads for La Cage, without charge. Nobody has ever objected to those. Why are you objecting to this particular ad? I'm sure if we suddenly get so many ads being posted that it interferes with the nature of this forum, then we'll do something about it. For example, Candlepspa posted his ad on both this forum and our 'Gay Asia' forum. I don't think that is necessary, but so far I don't see that it has caused a problem.

That's a good point, but the USA doesn't depend on foreign tourists for the tourism industry to survive anywhere near to the degree Thailand depends on it. Thailand certainly has a much greater incentive to attract foreign tourists than the USA does. I think when comparing the USA tourism industry to the Thai tourism industry, it would be correct to say that a major downturn in foreign tourist numbers in the USA means less profit. In Thailand it means huge losses. I agree that would certainly bring more tourists to Thailand, but I believe the main problem is getting tourists to spend a lot of money once they arrive. In the past few months many of the articles I've read are quite clear on the idea that in many instances the numbers of foreign tourists coming to Thailand is only part of the issue because the tourists that do come just are not spending money anywhere near to the extent to which they had been spending in the past. That part of the problem can be solved if something can be done to decrease the strength of the baht against foreign currencies. I also think part of the problem is all this crazy building that's going on in Pattaya and now extending to "The Dark Side" as well (with no major improvements to the infrastructure). If there is a square inch of land available anywhere in the Pattaya vicinity, someone is building on it. I don't know who they think is going to be buying all these units. Are they creating a de facto ghost town? That remains to be seen. But one thing is for sure: At the moment it's a buyer's market. That's another good point. While a debate constantly goes on as to whether the two tiered pricing is justified, very few foreign tourists like it whether it is justified or not. I don't know how much that pricing affects tourism, but to me the obvious question is: Is two tiered pricing truly necessary? Does the two tiered pricing really bring in so much money that Thailand would significantly suffer without it? I wouldn't personally object if admission prices to both public and private venues were on the order of 50 baht or so above Thai prices, but sometimes it's two or even three times the price Thais pay. I find it very difficult to see the justification in that. I also think the two tiered pricing is totally unjustifiable on public transportation, such as the baht buses. I fail to see any reason why a foreigner should pay anything more than a Thai person pays. I don't see any validity in the argument that farang have more money than most Thais have, therefore they should pay more. While I don't think the additional cost for farang is going to break anyone's bank account, I can certainly see the annoyance that a person feels if he is being penalized because he was fortunate enough in life to make more money than many Thais make. To my mind, even if Bill Gates was here and wanted to ride a baht bus, he shouldn't have to pay one baht more than Thai people pay. If nothing else, I think the Thai tourism industry should take into consideration that enough foreigners dislike the two tiered pricing to make it a serious issue. If they ever take Astrrro's advice about subsidizing airfares, why not also subsidize public tourist attractions and public transportation in order to solve the two tiered pricing problem? I also think Thailand needs to take a much closer and serious look at the way tourists are all too often treated by baht bus drivers, taxi drivers who refuse to turn on their meters, and, often enough, abuses on the part of the police. I think the Thai authorities need to understand that tourists don't come here to find themselves victims of intimidation, abuse, and rip-offs. If I had my way, baht bus drivers, taxi drivers, police officers, and anyone else who engages in that kind of behavior would lose their jobs the same day. If the Thai authorities would actually get serious about it, instead of just talking about it all the time, that would quickly put a stop to it. All of this is what I'm talking about when I say that I think Thailand needs to take a serious look at changing the paradigm.

They keep coming up with everything to "fix" the tourist industry except what they really need to do to attract people. Obviously the Thai government can't help things that are beyond their control, such as the protest rallies every 14 seconds, but there is plenty they can do that is easily within their control. The first thing they can do is do away with these asinine bar operating hours. That's one of the most common complaints. They can also do away with unnecessary things that anger tourists, such as the 150 baht ATM fees. They need to provide tourists with incentives to choose Thailand as their holiday destination. Telling adults it's beddy-bye time at 1:00am, ripping people off at ATMs, allowing police harassment instead of police protection, making things overly complex at immigration, arresting incoming families because they brought too many cigarettes with them, etc. is hardly the way to get people to come to Thailand. What I think Thailand needs to do is have appropriate government officials sit down with foreign tourist representatives and interested individuals, and revamp this whole mess. I don't think the "tailspin" will stop without a complete paradigm change.

Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind . . .

All in my head. I don't have a clue why I know and remember these things, since I can't remember much of anything else, but there it is . . .

"As an actor, nobody could touch him. As a human being, nobody wanted to touch him." - Walter Matthau, 'The Sunshine Boys'

I don't get it. I don't understand North Korea's actions and saber-rattling statements. The way I see it, that country's behavior is like the mean little neighborhood bully making more and more threats after the other neighborhood kids decide not to put up with it anymore, thinking he can frighten the other kids into giving in to him. North Korea must know that if they actually start attacking other countries, that's tantamount to their own suicide in the end. They are now alienating their closest allies. Why? What are they really trying to accomplish? I don't see what they believe they can gain from all this nonsense.

Farrah Fawcett, Sex Symbol and Actress, Dies (CNN) -- Farrah Fawcett, the blonde-maned actress whose best-selling poster and "Charlie's Angels" stardom made her one of the most famous faces in the world, died Thursday. She was 62. Fawcett's death was confirmed by Paul Bloch, one of her representatives at Rogers and Cowan, an entertainment public relations firm. Fawcett, who checked into a hospital in early April, had been battling anal cancer on and off for three years. Bloch told CNN that Ryan O'Neal, Fawcett's romantic partner since the mid-1980s, and her friend Alana Stewart were with Fawcett at Saint John's Hospital in Santa Monica, California, when she died. "Although this is an extremely difficult time for her family and friends, we take comfort in the beautiful times that we shared with Farrah over the years and the knowledge that her life brought joy to so many people around the world," O'Neal said in a written statement. O'Neal is the father of Fawcett's son, Redmond O'Neal, born in 1985. Redmond O'Neal is in an intense rehabilitation program conducted in the Los Angeles county jail, Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department spokesman Steve Whitmore told CNN on Thursday. Fawcett's son was informed on Wednesday night by a grief counselor and a chaplain that his mother's death was imminent, and a grief counselor and chaplain also told him when she died, Whitmore said. The young man, who is currently with a chaplain, has spoken with his father, Whitmore said. Ryan O'Neal had recently told People magazine that the sex symbol was declining. "She stays in bed now. The doctors see that she is comfortable. Farrah is on IVs, but some of that is for nourishment. The treatment has pretty much ended," he said in a story posted May 7. Fawcett's cancer journey has been documented in a television special partly shot by the actress. Fawcett began shooting "Farrah's Story," by taking a camera to a doctor's appointment. Eventually, the film expanded to include trips overseas in hopes of treating the cancer. The documentary aired on NBC on May 15. Fawcett's beauty -- her gleaming smile was printed on millions of posters -- initially made her famous. But she later established herself as a serious actress. She starred as a battered wife in the 1984 TV movie "The Burning Bed." She appeared on stage as a woman who extracts vengeance from a would-be rapist in William Mastrosimone's play "Extremities." She reprised the "Extremities" role on film in 1986. Other Fawcett films include "Logan's Run" (1976), "Saturn 3" (1980), "The Cannonball Run" (1981), "The Apostle" (1997) and the Robert Altman-directed "Dr. T and the Women" (2000). To many, Fawcett will always be best known for her red-swimsuited image on the pinup poster, which sold a reputed 12 million copies after its release in 1976. iReport: Share your memories of Farrah Fawcett Fawcett was a model best known for bit parts, commercials and as "Six Million Dollar Man" actor Lee Majors' wife when she shot the poster in early 1976 at the behest of Pro Arts, a Cleveland, Ohio, company. Photographer Bruce McBroom placed Fawcett -- then known as Farrah Fawcett-Majors -- in the Indian blanket-draped front seat of his 1937 Chevy and snapped away. Fawcett did her own hair -- a long, tousled cascade of blonde locks -- picked out the red bathing suit and chose the frame later used for the poster, according to a story in the Toronto Star. The poster, with Fawcett's million-dollar smile front and center, became a sensation. Soon after the photo shoot, Fawcett was asked to join the cast of a new Aaron Spelling TV show, "Charlie's Angels," about a trio of female detectives who work for a mysterious man named Charlie, whose only appearance in the show was through his voice (supplied by John Forsythe). Fawcett, who played Jill Munroe, was the last to be cast. Co-star Kate Jackson was the known name at the time, but thanks to her poster, Fawcett became the breakout star. The highly rated TV series kicked off what came to be known as "jiggle TV," series full of pretty actresses who appeared in bikinis at the drop of a hat. "Denunciations of 'massage parlor television' and 'voyeurism' only brought more viewers to the screen, to see what the controversy was about," wrote Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh about "Charlie's Angels" in their indispensable reference, "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV Shows." ABC's "Three's Company" and CBS's "The American Girls" were among the shows that immediately followed, and shows such as "Baywatch" owe "Charlie's Angels" a debt. But Fawcett didn't stay with "Angels" long. At the end of the first season, unhappy with her contract, she left the show and was replaced by Cheryl Ladd. Fawcett's career stagnated for a time after "Charlie's Angels." She appeared in a handful of forgettable films and divorced Majors. But her career received a major boost with her starring role in "The Burning Bed," a 1984 TV movie co-starring Paul Le Mat. Fawcett played an abused wife who sets fire to her husband's bed as he lies sleeping. Fawcett received an Emmy nomination for her performance. Fawcett also became romantically involved with O'Neal around this time. The pair had a son, Redmond, in 1985. In recent years, Fawcett has appeared sporadically in the public eye. She posed nude for Playboy in 1995. In 1997, she appeared on "The Late Show with David Letterman," an interview that became notorious for Fawcett's apparent incoherence. She later said she was just having fun with Letterman. She reunited with her "Charlie's Angels" co-stars, Jackson and Jaclyn Smith, for an awards show in 2006. Fawcett was born in Corpus Christi, Texas, in 1947. She married Majors in 1973; they divorced nine years later. She was diagnosed with cancer in 2006.

The Red Shirt rally that took place a couple days ago in Pattaya, at the junction of Sukhumvit and Soi Khaotalo was entirely peaceful. It caused traffic inconvenience, but there was no other drama. Now the Red Shirts are saying they will start a new round of violence to bring back Thaksin and put him in place as Prime Minister again: _____ More Violence Expected in Future Anti-Govt Protests: Democratic Party Bangkok, June 25 - TNA Thailand’s ruling Democrat Party has received documents relating to anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) members stating that the group will boost the level of violence in their future rallies and eventually bring back fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a senior official said on Thursday. Thepthai Senpong, spokesman for Democrat Party leader Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, said the alleged ‘Taksin 2 plan’ stipulates that the UDD will follow “seven strategic plans” to move towards more violent means and to also bring back Mr. Thaksin, now living in self-imposed exile, to Thailand. Mr. Thepthai said he hoped that the plan will not become reality because if it is implemented it could “create severe conflicts in the country” at a time when the country appears to be “running smoothly,” without apparent discord. Many of the so-called Red Shirts are being charged with having violated the State of Emergency Decree by leading a gathering at Government House as well as having created a series riots and violent street incidents in the eastern seaside resort of Pattaya and in Bangkok in April. The UDD announced last Thursday that it would hold a series of four rallies in Bangkok, with the last to be held at Government House for an indefinite period. The first rally will take place on Saturday at Bangkok’s Sanam Luang. Dates for the remaining three have yet to be fixed. Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who oversees security affairs, said intelligence officials had not yet informed him of the UDD’s ‘Taksin 2 plan’. Urging everybody to help solve problems prevailing in the country, Mr. Suthep said Thailand had faced several risks earlier and economic problem is a major one. Mr. Suthep asked those preparing to join Saturday’s rally to strictly adhere to the law, and warned that security personnel will take action against anyone breaking the law. “They (the demonstrators) can hold a peaceful rally but if they seize the Government House or government offices, the government will have to take a drastic action as happened during the Songkran festival in April,” he added. Key leaders of the United front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) Jatuporn Promphan and Natthawut Saikuea, however, said the group had no knowledge of any plot to topple the government by violent means. (TNA)

That is a very good point, one I hadn't thought of. I suppose there are plenty of people out there with nothing better to do. However, so far nothing is really in evidence to suggest that those posts are from pranksters, so for the moment I'm taking them seriously. And yes, suggestions are exactly what I'm looking for. Fountainhall's point is also well taken. He's right. There are plenty of gay personals sites out there and I agree with him that there is no need to turn this site into yet another one. That, of course, is GT's decision. For the time being there is no problem. There are not enough of those posts to concern me - only enough to raise my eyebrows in curiosity and puzzlement as to why they're suddenly appearing here. I was more concerned for the people posting their ads to succeed in finding what they're looking for. So far there are not enough of those posts to cause concern about the nature of this forum. But if this forum starts gaining a reputation out there as a place to post personal ads, and if a lot of people start doing that, then that has the potential of becoming a problem, so I guess I'm looking for solutions now, in case it really does start becoming an issue.

I've never been there, but have you tried asking your airline for information about that airport or where you could get information from? You might also contact the People's Republic of China Embassy at: http://www.china-embassy.org

All of a sudden we're getting personal ads posted here. While I have no objection to it at all if people wish to make such posts, I wonder if they are reading this board before they post. This is not a hookups board. I have a feeling some other board somewhere is referring people to this board for hookups or some search engine is sending people this way. I don't know how much, if any, success or satisfaction personal ads posters are going to find here. To me, posting personal ads on this forum makes about as much sense as posting ads for feminine hygiene deodorant on web sites for ceiling fans. They're welcome to try if they wish, but I think they would have much better luck on sites such as Gay Romeo: http://www.gayromeo.com Rate Fun: http://www.ratefun.net and other personals sites. Feel free to post additional links to your favorite gay personals sites, if you wish. GT, if people are going to start posting personal ads here, maybe we ought to consider an additional forum for personals.