Gaybutton

I'm going to give it a try soon. I haven't yet. But I must say that to date the best hamburgers I've ever had in Thailand were cooked on a grill at a very nice party, poolside, at beautiful home just behind Cherry's. I think you may have met the homeowner. I believe if you ask him very nicely he just might give you an opportunity to try them some time . . .

I'll give you three guesses.

I'm starting to wonder just what that 1300 baht fee was supposed to cover or even if that was the actual fee the 'agent' was charged. The Pattaya Daily News article mentions the 1300 baht. The Pattaya One article does not. Maybe the reporter didn't get it right. But assuming it is accurate, the way the article is worded it could be that 1300 baht was charged because apparently the agent specifically asked for an under-age boy. Maybe the younger they are, the more they charge. I hope there will be follow up articles for a change. I'm curious about whether the 1300 baht fee was supposed to cover renting the room and a tip for the boy, whether asking specifically for an under-age boy meant the bar charged more, or whether the mama-san lined his own pocket with it, or what. I'm also curious about just how old the under-age boy actually was.

I view that criticism with great contumely . . .

I'm glad we're going to keep this simple instead of making it complicated.

You must be very slow on the uptake.

Actually she was quite familiar with it. She greatly approved of my methods, especially the part about how I quickly get rid of the idiots.

Several years ago a boy took me to see a Mae Chee. These are the Buddhist equivalents of nuns. The Mae Chee was a fortune teller and spoke excellent English. She wanted to know my birthday, the day of the week I was born, my age, and all kinds of other things. Then she took out a book of what appeared to me to be some form of hieroglyphics and started doing calculations based on what was in the book and the information I gave. After that she wanted to read my palm. Then, when she was through with all that she looked at me and said, sharply, "You no good!" I asked why she said that. "You drink too much. You no good!" Anyone who knows me also knows that among my litany of faults, drinking is not one of them. "Mae Chee," I said. "I hardly ever drink and I never get drunk." Her response was, "Well, you do something no good and you have to stop!"

You mean the gossip queen rumor mill is in full force? My goodness, what a surprise! As a matter of fact, I believe it is so rare that it is non-existent. I think any foreigner, no matter how long he has lived in Thailand, even if he was born and raised here, who claims to really fully understand the goings on is either a liar or a fool.

There are various ways of spelling it in English, of course, but it's squid. For the record, I didn't state that. I guessed that. What I said was, "If that 1300 baht figure is correct, my guess is that was what was asked for both the room rental and the 'tip' for the boy." I have very rarely gone to Nice Boys at all. I think I've been in there a grand total of twice. I never offed a boy from Nice Boys. Until this incident came about I didn't even know they had short-time rooms, let alone how much they charged to take a boy to the short-time room. In other words, I have no way of knowing what the 1300 baht fee was all about. All I can do is guess. As for the rest of your post, I sympathize with your concerns. The problem is until certain bars clean up their act and stop hiring under-age boys, then yes, there is an element of risk that you could be caught up in a raid. The risk is minor, but it's there. I doubt we'll ever see much of a change unless something drastic happens. What it boils down to is you either take the risk or you don't go to the bars. If you are convinced that every bar hires under-age boys, and by the way that's not true, then if you want to be certain to avoid the possibility of being caught up in a raid, then you can't go to the bars at all. I don't know what other alternative you have. You won't get into legal trouble by simply being present in a go-go bar that employs under-age boys. It's the bar's problem, not yours. No one, even the police, expects you to check the IDs for all the boys working in a bar before setting foot in a bar. However, in Thailand the police do have the authority to raid bars, check farang for valid passports and visas, force farang to either submit to a urine test or face arrest, and permit the press to take photos and publish them. Since this incident is the first time I'm aware of the police forcing farang customers to submit to a urine test in the Pattaya gay bars, we won't know if this is a new trend until there have been more raids in which the same thing happens. Of course, even then we may not know for some time. Even if the police start raiding bars regularly again, considering the number of bars that are empty lately, the police will be lucky to find any farang customers inside at all . . .

As long as there are already two number 3s, here's another one. 3. Piercings. I can do without the boys who have piercings all over the place. I agree with lvdkeyes that many guys like tattoos. Many like the piercings. Many like mustaches, beards, hairy bodies, and whatnot. I think no matter what it is, somebody likes it. Certainly the boy himself likes it. I've gotten to the point that I can handle a few piercings and tattoos, but I really don't like them. But I consider the idea that if these boys can handle being with someone who looks like me, then the least I can do is make a few concessions too, even though I'm the one footing the bill.

You have another option. Take a boy off and offer him the opportunity to be your tour guide. He'll probably jump at the chance and would be far less expensive than commercial tours. It would probably be much more fun that way too. I've done things like that. If I flew to a destination at which I wasn't familiar, I would take a boy off if he held a motorcycle driving license, rent a motorcycle, and let him take me all over the place with him driving and me as the passenger. It never failed to be a fabulous time. Now that I have a car, I still do things like that and I invariably get to places that tour groups never hear about. For me, that beats hell out of organized commercial tours.

My latest information is Nice Boys was closed last night. There was no sign on the door to indicate when, or even if, it will open again. I was told many of the boys ended up working in the Tom Yom bar.

I don't think a poll is necessary. Why make it complicated? If someone wants to have a meet-and-greet, just say where, what day, and what time. Those who go will go.

In my opinion that just goes to show that any fool can sit down and write an article, even when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Doubts Surface on North Korea's Role in Ship Sinking Some in South Korea dispute the official version of events: that a North Korean torpedo ripped apart the Cheonan. July 23, 2010|By Barbara Demick and John M. Glionna, Los Angeles Times Reporting from Seoul — The way U.S. officials see it, there's little mystery behind the most notorious shipwreck in recent Korean history. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton calls the evidence "overwhelming" that the Cheonan, a South Korean warship that sank in March, was hit by a North Korean torpedo. Vice President Joe Biden has cited the South Korean-led panel investigating the sinking as a model of transparency. But challenges to the official version of events are coming from an unlikely place: within South Korea. Armed with dossiers of their own scientific studies and bolstered by conspiracy theories, critics dispute the findings announced May 20 by South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, which pointed a finger at Pyongyang. They also question why Lee made the announcement nearly two months after the ship's sinking, on the very day campaigning opened for fiercely contested local elections. Many accuse the conservative leader of using the deaths of 46 sailors to stir up anti-communist sentiment and sway the vote. The critics, mostly but not all from the opposition, say it is unlikely that the impoverished North Korean regime could have pulled off a perfectly executed hit against a superior military power, sneaking a submarine into the area and slipping away without detection. They also wonder whether the evidence of a torpedo attack was misinterpreted, or even fabricated. "I couldn't find the slightest sign of an explosion," said Shin Sang-chul, a former shipbuilding executive-turned-investigative journalist. "The sailors drowned to death. Their bodies were clean. We didn't even find dead fish in the sea." Doubts surface

That's right. I don't see any need to have something formal or organized to the point that we're getting discounts or someone else is footing the bill. If people want to have a meet-and-greet, it's very simple. Just say when, where, and what time and whoever wants to show up can show up and everyone orders his own drinks and pays his own bill. If you think about it, where is it engraved in stone that it even has to be in a bar at all? Years ago I used to organize these kinds of things on occasion and we would just meet and sit down at the tables on the terrace of The Ambiance, and it would be about 3:00pm in the afternoon, not at night. That gave people time to have their day at the beach, show up for the meet-and-greet, and still have plenty of time to get themselves ready for dinner and an evening out. If I remember correctly, that's how RichLB and I first met and we've been friends ever since. It could be lunch somewhere. I'll bet if we asked nicely, Tui, of Tui's Place, would have no objection if a group of us wanted to gather together for lunch on his terrace at the beach. If it's to be a bar, I would suggest Corner Bar or Memories in Sunee Plaza or Question Mark or Ganymede at Jomtien Complex. All three of those are quiet enough that a meet-and-greet would work. In other words, it can be at all kinds of places besides just bars and it could also work just as well in a number of different bars at various locations.

If that 1300 baht figure is correct, my guess is that was what was asked for both the room rental and the 'tip' for the boy. Regarding the attorney for the bar, I'd love to be the attorney too. The attorney will get a retainer for doing nothing. I have yet to see any of these bar raid cases ever make it as far as a courtroom. Fountainhall points out that subjecting farang customers to urine testing is not new. Granted, but it certainly is rare. As far as I know, in the Pattaya gay bar scene it is virtually unheard of until now, although I do recall reading about it on rare occasions involving Walking Street bars. At the time I'm posting this, it's just after 10:00pm in Thailand, so it might be a little early yet, but if anyone reading this was in Sunee Plaza this evening, please let us know if Nice Boys is shut down or open and if you heard any more about this incident. You know you're in trouble when the most accurate reporting about these things ends up coming from HeyGay rather than the English language media. So, HeyGay, if you are reading this, what have you heard?

If people would like to have a meet-and-greet, what's wrong with everyone ordering his own drinks and paying his own bill, without looking for discounts?

Is he? Maybe he's on a secret mission. He hasn't said anything to me.

I don't know how accurate they are, but to date I have never heard anyone who had to submit to it saying the test was inaccurate and I have also never heard of anyone testing positive when in reality it was due to meds they were taking. That, of course, is not to say that it can't happen. Once again, if all the bars were doing what they are supposed to be doing, nobody would have to worry. But until that day comes, it certainly is a legitimate concern. "Balthasar is a good man. But until all men are like him, we must keep our swords bright." - Hugh Griffith (Sheik Ilderim), 'Ben-Hur'

Not yet. GT is not currently present in Thailand. It might be something we will consider doing once he returns.

That's one my peeves. If I had my way, any bar caught employing under-age boys would be immediately shut down - permanently. It really gets beyond annoying when the customers are the ones who end up having to take responsibility for checking ages, having to deal with the possibility of being caught up in raids, urine tests, etc. It also gets beyond annoying when you consistently hear that the powers-that-be are working to rid Pattaya of the pedophiles, and yet even when caught most of these bars are allowed to remain open, are shut down for only a short period of time, are permitted to reopen under a different name, and the people responsible for letting under-age boys work in these places never seem to have to stand trial and be sent to prison. Instead, they pay a fine and are right back plying their trade usually within 24 hours. Those who are not pedophiles end up directly affected by all of this nonsense and so do the bars that operate legitimately. There seems to be no end to it. If the bar has been shut down, I doubt it will take very long to find the same boys working in other bars and/or a bunch of new faces suddenly appearing on Gay Romeo.

I don't know whether an "undercover agent of foreign nationality" has ever been used, but the part that I'm wondering about is the 'anonymous tip.' Why is it that everyone seems to know what goes on in some of these bars except the police? I also don't know why Nice Boys would have been involved in this crap in the first place. That's one of the few bars that seemed to be doing well, but there you have it. This is also the first Sunee Plaza raid I've heard about since before the Red Shirt demonstrations. I can't help but be a little suspicious that there was more behind this raid than the police suddenly figuring out that a Sunee Plaza bar just might be employing under-age boys or just might have employees on drugs. They needed a foreign undercover agent to give them a clue? Ok . . . There is a second article on Pattaya One: Underage Boys found in Police raid of South Pattaya Gay Bar | Pattaya One News Both articles are essentially the same, but the Pattaya One article says that the farang customers were also subjected to urine tests for drugs. That is unusual. During raids the farang customers are usually just told to leave, but apparently not this time. Neither article says whether the bar will be allowed to remain open or if it is now shut down. If anyone happens to be in the area this evening, please let us know.

I doubt it. I don't know of any kind of agency that keeps such statistics other than hotel occupancy and tourist arrival numbers. However, even when the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) publishes those numbers, I'm very skeptical of the accuracy and honesty. The numbers they publish just don't jive with what anyone can see with their own eyes. You don't need statistics, though, to easily see that numbers are way down. Using just the bars as an example, it wasn't very long ago that you could walk into any bar and find plenty of customers. Lately, however, even in high season you can still walk into a number of bars and find yourself to be the only customer. In some restaurants, where before you were lucky to get in without a reservation, now you see the waiters standing around forlornly hoping at least somebody will come in. I haven't encountered a business of any kind recently that isn't complaining of low customer numbers and low sales. Even the businesses that are getting customers are complaining that people just are not spending the amounts they used to spend. Within the past year I've seen more bars and restaurants close their doors than I can remember ever in Thailand. With the bars, it used to seem as soon as one closed, somebody would snatch it up almost immediately and reopen. These days, however, that doesn't seem to be happening nearly as much. Most bars I see close remain closed or I'm seeing long periods of time go by before anyone invests in reopening them. In short, numbers or not, things are really tough right now, and the high season is still several months away. One thing my group of friends has noticed, though, when it comes to restaurants, the better ones, good quality food, reasonable prices, good service, etc, are still usually quite busy.