Gaybutton

I don't know the answer to that one.

If there has been an understanding that this outing is not for sex and tipping purposes, maybe that is one circumstance in which it's the farang who gets to say, "Up to you" . . .

If you feel that assurances from a lawyer is good enough, ok, but I know what the embassy told me and if the Thai authorities relinquish the jurisdiction to the embassy, then now it's the embassy calling the shots. It was thoroughly explained to me just what those shots will be. I suggest not relying solely on the assurances of a Thai attorney, but also checking with your embassy. If they tell you that the attorney is right, wonderful. But if the embassy tells you differently, then that will isn't going to be worth the paper it's written on. I suggest making certain.

I didn't mean to come across as siding with or taking a position against either of you. I don't even know Googie. I may have met him once, and that's it. I don't even remember what he looks like. I ate breakfast at his restaurant a grand total of once about three or four days after I first moved here, didn't like it, and never went back. If he's alive, I'm happy for him. If he's dead, I'm sorry for him. The point I was trying to make is both of you were posting in total conflict with each other, each presenting that your source of information was Email from third parties. That's why I said flip a coin. At this moment I still really don't know for sure what his situation is and, on a personal level, since all he ever was to me was a name, if he has died I'm no more broken up about it than anyone would be if someone he met maybe once, years ago, has now passed on. I'm sorry if some people are upset with me because I'm not prostrate with anguish, but that's the way it is. However, since you revealed that we had some Email of our own going back and forth, I will say you did show me evidence from a source I would consider credible and I also now know and understand why you do not wish to post your evidence here.

Actually, a Thai will may not do you any good if you are a citizen of the USA. The same may apply to other countries too, and you would need to check. I have specifically discussed this with the US embassy. The told me quite clearly that when a US citizen dies in Thailand, the Thai government hands over jurisdiction to the US embassy as soon as possible. Now the embassy is in control of your remains and possessions. They told me they will not, repeat - will not, honor a Thai will. They won't even honor a will you drafted in the USA. They said upon your death, the first thing they look for is your passport. They then will contact your next of kin, even if they have to track down a distant cousin or something. It is your next of kin who makes all the decisions, regardless of whether you have a will or not. Everything is entirely up to your next of kin. The only way your Thai will may be honored is if your next of kin decides to do so. That is what the embassy told me. Those of you who are under the impression that your Thai will is going to be honored, check with the embassy yourself. I asked what happens if there is no next of kin or a next of kin simply cannot be located. To tell the truth, I can't remember the answer, but there was an answer. The point is, if you want your wishes to be honored, you need to make your wishes known to your next of kin and hope they will abide by your wishes. ____________________ Death of a U.S. Citizen Death is a difficult experience for one's family and friends no matter where it takes place. When death occurs overseas the experience can be even harder, especially if the procedures involved are not clearly understood. American American Citizen Services (ACS) is ready to assist family and friends in the event of the death of an American Citizen in Thailand. Our services include: * Finding and notifying the Next-of-Kin of the deceased * Acting as a liaison with Thai police, hospital and mortuary authorities * Arranging for the disposition and repatriation of remains * Coordinating administrative and financial requirements * Assisting in the collection and return of personal effects to Next-of-Kin * Issuing a "Report of Death of American Citizen Abroad". Notification of Next-of-Kin The Thai authorities inform the Embassy upon the death of an American Citizen anywhere in Thailand. We then find the Next-of-Kin of the deceased and contact that person as soon as possible. There are several important things that the Next-of-Kin must do in conjunction with the ACS office. These include: * Returning a signed and notarized "Affidavit of Next-of-Kin" * Choosing method of disposition of remains * Arranging payment of mortuary and related expenses in Thailand * Arranging return of any personal possessions of the deceased Affidavit of Next-of-Kin and Letter of Instruction To act on the family's behalf, the Embassy must have a signed, notarized copy of a document called an “Affidavit of Next-of-Kin.” This form is critical because it shows us who is entitled to make the decisions regarding the deceased. Families should first fax or scan and email us a completed copy, and then mail the original. Next-of-Kin are established in the following order: 1. Spouse 2. Children 3. Parents 4. Siblings 5. Grandparents Additionally, Next-of-Kin should fill out and sign a "Letter of Instruction" and fax or scan and email us a copy. This letter will tell us exactly how to handle the deceased's body. You can find blank copies of the affidavit here. Our fax number is 011-66-2-205-4103 (02-205-4103 from inside of Thailand). Our email is acsbkk@state.gov Disposition and Repatriation of Remains When an American Citizen dies in Thailand, the body is usually preserved until an autopsy can be performed and instructions are received from us or the Next-of-Kin regarding disposition of remains. There are normally two options regarding the disposition of remains: * Cremation in Thailand and shipment for internment in the U.S. or other location * Embalming in Thailand and shipment to U.S. or other location for internment or burial We work with a funeral home here in Bangkok to ensure that the wishes of the Next-of-Kin are carried out as quickly and professionally as possible. HOWEVER, IN MOST CASES EMBALMING AND MORTUARY SERVICES IN THAILAND FALL FAR SHORT OF THE STANDARD EXPECTED IN THE UNITED STATES. A FUNERAL DIRECTOR IN THE U.S. SHOULD BE CONSULTED TO DETERMINE THE ADVISABILITY OF VIEWING THE REMAINS AND OF CONDUCTING AN OPEN CASKET FUNERAL. Autopsies Autopsies are normally performed if the deceased has died outside of a hospital or if the cause of death cannot be determined. Autopsies are performed within twenty-fours after the Thai forensic authorities receive the remains. Full autopsy reports are not available for up to three months after the completion of the examination. Autopsies are normally performed if the deceased has died outside of a hospital or if the cause of death cannot be determined. If an autopsy is not required by Thai authorities, it can often be conducted at the request and expense of the next-of-kin. Autopsies are performed within twenty-fours after the Thai forensic authorities receive the remains. Please note that full autopsy results are not available for up to three months after the completion of the examination, and that the autopsy results will likely fall far short of the standard expected in the United States. Timing Because of many factors, it is best not to make unchangeable plans and dates for funeral ceremonies in the United States until we can provide a firm timetable for return of remains. It takes time to perform an autopsy, to embalm or cremate the body, to prepare remains for shipment, and to prepare all the necessary documents. Normally, it will be at least 7 to 10 days from the date of death to arrival of remains in the United States, longer if the remains are to be cremated and mailed to the U.S. Financial Arrangements The deceased's family or legal representative must pay all funeral home expenses and shipping costs of the remains and any personal effects. Families without a personal representative present in Thailand normally set up what is called an Overseas Citizens Services Trust with the Department of State. We use the money in this account to pay expenses on behalf of the deceased. We can coordinate all aspects of mortuary services under this arrangement. Costs listed below are estimates, based on deaths with no unusual circumstances and should be considered for guidance purposes only. * To have remains returned to the U.S. for burial, the cost for embalming and air shipment is approximately $4000. * The cost for cremation and air shipment of ashes is approximately $1000. By law, the Department of State cannot carry out instructions on the disposition of the remains until we have received the required funds. There are several methods for sending money to the Department of State to set up an Overseas Citizens Services Trust. For instructions on how to do this, please click here. There will normally be an interval of at least seven days between receipt of funds and shipment of the remains. After all the mortuary and shipping expenses have been received and paid, we will conduct an itemized accounting of final costs and refund any balance in the trust by a United States Treasury check. Return of Personal Effects The Embassy can, in most circumstances, take charge of personal effects and possessions of the deceased if instructed to do so by the Next-of-Kin. This may not be necessary if the deceased has a friend or family member present in Thailand at the time of death. We will conduct a thorough inventory of any personal effects and send a copy to the Next-of Kin. We can send the family any items they wish to have returned at their expense through the United States Postal Service at the Embassy. Most families decide to donate items of little sentimental or monetary value (clothing, suitcases, kitchenware, etc.) to a local charity in order to avoid the large expense involved in returning these items to the United States. The Embassy will gladly arrange for this charitable donation on the family's behalf. In cases where the estate of the deceased exceeds $1000, the Embassy will require more detailed legal documents, such as Letters Testamentary or Letters of Administration, prior to releasing money or effects to the Next-of-Kin. Consular Report of Death of an American Citizen Abroad The “Consular Report of Death of an American Citizen Abroad” is an official report, in English, that provides the essential facts concerning the death of a U.S. Citizen. It functions in much the same way as a death certificate issued in the United States and can be used to settle bank accounts, insurance policies and other estate matters. This report can be issued only after the Thai authorities complete their documentation of the death and takes several weeks to be completed. A minimum of 20 certified copies will be sent to the Next-of-Kin. Families may order additional certified copies from the Department of State for a fee. Families will thus receive up to three sets of documents from the Embassy: * 20 copies of "Consular Report of Death of an American Citizen Abroad" (free) * An original Thai Death Certificate with a translated English copy (at the family's expense) * An original Autopsy Report with a translated English copy (at the family's expense, takes 3-4 months to complete) For more information you may also refer to the following Department of State website: http://www.travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/death/death_600.html Contact Us American Citizen Services (ACS) U.S. Embassy Bangkok 95 Wireless Road, Bangkok 10330, Thailand Telephone from outside of Thailand: (66) 2-205-4049 Telephone from inside of Thailand: 02-205-4049 Fax: (66) 2-205-4103 E-mail: acsbkk@state.gov Home Page: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service.html U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai 387 Witchayanond Road, Chiang Mai 50300, Thailand Tel: (66) 53-107-700 ext. 7704 or 7738 Fax: (66) 53-252-633 E-mail: acschn@state.gov Home Page: http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service.html http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/death-of-a-us-citizen.html

Oliver Bragged? I wouldn't call it that, but you are correct in that I have little or no sympathy for people who who throw themselves off the tops of buildings. Not a stretch? Then where did all those stretch marks come from?

No, I told him he hasn't posted here enough times to have established credibility. There's a big difference. As for my little joke, the one you want to twist to make me appear insensitive, you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't forget to give some thought to some of the really sensitive wisecracks you manage to come up with . . .

You think I'm attacking him? When he, or anyone, posts this kind of information, then he should also post something by which to back it up. What somebody heard from somebody else, and that information directly conflicts with what someone else heard, then somebody is right and somebody is wrong, and information is precisely what we don't have and still don't have. Whoever is posting are those responsible for making sure, not the people reading the post. If Googie is alive, then I don't think he would be particularly grateful to see that he's been crossed off the list on this board. Of course, if he is dead then maybe he won't complain.

It seems simple enough to me. If you are planning to take out a lot of money, take 500,000 and go to Lao, Myanmar, Cambodia, Malaysia, or Vietnam. Then go wherever you want from there. If you're planning to take out more than that, well, I guess you have to make more than one trip. But if Ceejay is correct, they're not going to stop you from taking out however much you want. They just want you to report it first. But why rely on what you get from message board posts? Why not simply contact Thai customs or your embassy and ask?

I agree with HeyGay on this one. Anybody could come to this board and post "information" and telling us to "suffice it to say." Quite frankly, I don't see how we can "suffice it to say" because there is no sufficient evidence other than asking us to just take your word for it. We can't even know if whoever is telling you is someone credible. I'm not saying you're information is incorrect and I'm not saying you are coming here to post rumor and gossip as if it were fact, but you have to understand that you have not posted here often enough to establish credibility. Nobody knows who you are. Nobody knows what your connection to Googie is. And now you are evading by saying you will not enter into further discussion and people need to inquire themselves. If there is confirmation, where is it? A link to or copy of an obituary, a copy of a funeral schedule, or something to confirm. Telling us you received Emails and telephone calls does not confirm anything because we have no way of knowing the source of those or even if those ever took place at all. Again, I am not saying you are incorrect or lying, and I know of no reason why you would come here and tell this to us if it is not true, but the fact is that without some sort of truly credible substantiation, from where I sit what you are telling us just doesn't qualify as having gone beyond the rumor stage. What we have here is one person telling us Googie has died and he has heard that from friends. But we also have another person telling us Googie is alive and he has heard that from friends. Both of you are telling us what you heard, but neither of you can personally confirm. So, with no substantiation, what are we supposed to do, flip a coin?

Since they are cruisers, do they go home alone or do they get lucky and the ship they seek comes in?

One solution to that, especially if there is no intent for sex to be involved, would be to tell the boy he can bring a friend. I've done that several times and it is always appreciated. One of the things I sometimes do is take a boy I like, along with a friend, to that gigantic swimming pool at Pattaya Park. Even the ones who dislike going to the beach always seem to love going to Pattaya Park. I always let them bring a friend, sometimes two or three. They all have a great time, it isn't that much more expensive (admission is 100 baht per person), and it gives me more bods to ogle. When we're done I take them all back to their room. I never ask the boy I like to come with me for sex afterward. That way he knows I did it as a friend and that is greatly appreciated. No money is expected or asked for or even hinted. Of course, if any of those boys offer to come with me to my place, I wouldn't insult them by saying no . . .

In the "The Story of Your Screen Name" thread I explained how my old web site came to be in the first place. Over time I learned how to do more and more with html (hypertext markup language) and experimented around. That's how the web site slowly grew and was continuing to grow until the day Thailand decided to block it. I enjoyed working with my web site, but in all honesty toward the end it was becoming much more of a chore rather than something I enjoyed doing. It just got to be too much. I was not only trying to run the web site, but was also trying to single-handedly keep current everything there was about everything gay in all of Thailand, along with general information. It was more than I could handle by myself. I had retired and moved to Thailand, and I was spending more time trying to keep up with the web site than anything else I was doing. Most likely, if the Thai government hadn't solved that problem for me, sooner or later I would have either taken the web site offline anyway or would have severely cut back on what I was doing. So, my web site is history, but like it or not I'm still here trying to do the best I can. It's very nice to know at least some people appreciate the effort, especially in light of the fact that most of the time all I ever get is complaints, accusations, put-downs, and sometimes I even get threats.

In that case you simply have to be willing to take the risk in order to save the money. But it sounds like if anything goes wrong, now you end up spending a lot more than you would have spent if you went with a full service carrier in the first place. So, I guess the trick is to be completely flexible about possible mishaps and rescheduling, and best to try to book non-stop flights. It reminds me of the time, when I was a kid, my family was sitting at the breakfast table when the telephone rang. My father answered. I watched him listen for a moment before he spoke to whoever had called and said, "I can't afford a free vacation," and then hung up.

Perhaps, but I wonder how many farang holiday makers would really travel halfway around the world to cruise pickup parks or sit on the Internet, hoping to find boys they want, when in the past (hypothetically) finding boys, having a few drinks, watching the go go dancers, etc. was a virtually guaranteed part of their experience. Some people swear by public men's rooms. I don't know, but that's definitely not for me and, by the way, I have yet to ever see any boys hanging around men's rooms making themselves available. I'm sure those who say they often find boys that way are telling the truth, but I have never seen it.

I don't know Air Asia's policy, but most airlines will provide hotel and food vouchers, as well as transportation to and from the airport, and often additional things if they are at fault for delays and missed flights. However, if the delay was caused by things beyond their control, such as weather delays, air traffic control delays, etc, then you're usually on your own. The only obligation the airlines have when that sort of thing occurs is to re-book you on another flight.

Yes, but don't forget that Pingalicker didn't know how it's spelled. By his spelling he would not have gotten results.

The results of the "If ALL the gay bars were to close, would you still come to Thailand?" poll, so far, are very interesting to me. Most are saying they would continue coming to Thailand, bars or no bars. Now I'm wondering, assuming that for most gay men finding willing young gentlemen is at least one of your main reasons for coming to Thailand (or as TOQ pointed out - staying in Thailand), if there were no gay bars, how would you go about finding those willing young men?

I think Buckeroo2 now has his answers and I know he's not looking for alternative ways of taking out money, but I'm reminded of something rather bizarre incident that happened to me, involving Thai banking and removal of money. About 7 or 8 years ago, before I retired and moved to Thailand, I already had an account at Bangkok Bank and had an ATM card. For reasons I still don't really understand, my accountant wanted me to bring back a cashier's check, drawn from my Thai bank account, for some purpose regarding my taxes. She explained the reason, but I don't remember now what the reason was. It was complex. Anyway, I obtained a cashier's check from Bangkok Bank for 20,000 baht. Back then, that was the equivalent of US $500. When I returned to the USA I gave the check to the accountant, she did whatever it was she needed to do, and then returned the check to me. I went to my local bank in the USA to deposit the check. The bank told me that for a foreign check I should allow about 12 weeks for it to clear. 14 weeks later it still hadn't cleared. I called the bank and was placed in touch with someone who deals with foreign transactions. After I explained, he told me he'll investigate it and call me back. About an hour later he did call me back and said, "I've never seen anything like this in my entire career. Bangkok Bank is refusing to honor the check." I said, "They're refusing to honor their own cashier's check? Why?" He explained that they were telling him they won't honor the check unless I can explain, to their satisfaction, why I need to be taking money out of Thailand. He said he's never heard of such a thing. I said, "That makes even less sense to me than it does to you. I have an ATM card from Bangkok Bank. I can withdraw money with it from any ATM in the world, including right here. I could empty out the entire bank account with the ATM card, but they won't honor their own cashier's check?" My next question was what happens to the check now. He said they will send it back to me. About a week later I received the check. Next trip to Thailand I went to Bangkok Bank and had no problem at all depositing the check back into my account. So, the moral of the story is . . . . well, come to think of it, I have no idea.

The format depends on the article. I have a copy, however I have no intention of ever reestablishing the web site. If something ever happens to this web site, I would consider starting up another message board, but I would also consider 'retiring' from the boards.

Thank you, TomUK. Any of my old articles are available by Email request. Gaybutton@gmail.com

Sunday, November 21

When a boy is taken off from a bar or when he's coming over for sex, he's working and expects remuneration for his work. But the circumstance you describe, in my opinion, is something entirely different. You've invited him to join you for activities that in no way involve his work. I would explain beforehand that you are not inviting him for sex, but are inviting him to join you because you like him and enjoy his company and this is not a 'short time' type of thing. That way there will be no misunderstanding. I would pay for everything and make sure he has money for taxi fare and food later, but other than that I see no reason to tip unless you wish to. I think tipping under those circumstances would be more a gesture of kindness than something obligatory. Many of these boys are quite happy to do these kinds of things. Most have little or no money. Ask them what they do all day. Most of the time you'll hear that they stay in their rooms and either watch TV, if they even have one, or sleep until it's time to get ready to go to work. On most days, that's it. That's all they do because they don't have the means to do anything else. All the activities the average farang holiday maker enjoys in Pattaya are rarities for most of the bar boys. You're talking about a lot of boys who are barely able to scrape together money to eat, pay their rent, and send some money home to mama each month. So, if you're taking him to lunch and a movie, a tip should neither be expected or necessary, as long as you made your intentions clear at the time you invited him. If it's a one time thing, I would give him a few hundred baht along with it, again as a gesture of kindness, not out of obligation. However, if it's a boy you're going to invite relatively often I wouldn't always give him money and when I do, I would vary the amounts. Otherwise he will come to expect it and there will be bitterness if he doesn't get it. Also, rather than giving him money all the time, you could also take him shopping, set a spending limit before you enter the store (I do that by giving him whatever I am willing to give him when we enter the store and make sure he understands that's his limit. Whatever he doesn't spend is his to keep), and let him buy clothes, cosmetics, or whatever else he needs. That is also greatly appreciated.

I know two ways to save a lot of money. 1. Find a boyfriend who already became a monk, before you ever met him and 2. Make sure he is also an orphan . . .

Well, there is at least one who had no idea. So, please write out the words. As much as that's a terrible thing for me to ask, I'm asking anyhow.