Marc308

Thanks guys, your descriptions are amazing... amazingly bad! Once upon a time (15? 20? years ago), Patong had a thriving and lively gay scene in Paradise Complex (and elsewhere). It sounds like the same plight which has visited Sunee Plaza has hit Patong now. The massage places then were also more conservative than those in Pattaya, but there certainly were "No Sex" signs on the doors, that's for sure! And Phuket in general was always more expensive (think hotels, food, transportation) than either Pattaya or Bangkok.

I sincerely hope you are not serious, Zombie! I have a nephew who is trans, and he is suffering severe anxiety.

I sure do miss Babylon! Whatta loss when it closed.

Yes eSIMs are far more useful than those TRUE or AIS SIMs sold at the airport. I mostly use Airalo (in 8 different countries thus far) with good results. Holafly is also good. No need to pay those outrageous roaming charges that most western cellular carriers charge. Luckily Airalo's eSIMs for Thailand (from DTAC) also give you a local phone number which is handy for Bolt, food delivery and Lazada purchases. Most eSIMs in other countries only give you a data allowance but no voice allowance.

Keep in mind that lasers can be dangerous -- if pointed haphazardly at someone's eyes you can literally blind them (burn their retina). Giving the laser to an inebriated customer might not be a good idea, alas.

In other words we are too damn old and won't be around all that much longer. Do you prefer that?

Oh gosh I rarely disagree with Vinapu and Omega, but hey guys, technology can be our friend! For one, the dating apps freed us from the boring bars and pushy mamasans, oh wow that was a great technological advance. The Line menu of available masseurs was a massive improvement over the old way of "hoping for the best" when going to a massage shop. Whether MFJ's idea of attaching QR codes instead of numbers would work is an open question, but at least you could learn something about the boy by getting some immediate feedback ("name", age, T/B, language proficiencies, size? ...) Technology has made Lazada possible, Bolt possible, ghost kitchen meal delivery possible... Someone clever will surely come up with a better way to breathe new life into the dying go-go bars. If not, the next generation (or current generation!) will put a nail in their coffin for sure. We, the retired and near-retired expats residents/visitors, do not have the financial profile nor the actuarial longevity that the industry needs to thrive.

Let me go back to my OP. When Jim and Gordon came to town, there was almost no precedent elsewhere in the gay world for the kind of interesting (and profitable!) businesses they built -- a pleasant, clean hotel; a nice friendly restaurant with a variety of cuisines; a bar (BBB) which packed them in every night to overflowing while still offering drinks at a reasonable price (99 baht). All this was innovative and revolutionary. Their foresight and creativity made a whole industry in Boystown, with spillovers in Sunee, Day & Night, and even North Pattaya. Their concepts were entirely appropriate for the 1980s/1990s. We must move on OR face extinction. Especially in low-season, going to a bar nowadays is an expensive, forlorn and lonely experience with dispirited boys using their smartphones, expats chatting with each other oblivious to most other goings-on, loud music which is usually ear-splitting. I'd say the biggest innovation since, and perhaps the one which has the longest staying power, is the appointed massage. Maybe this model will grow more (will Soda Massage adopt it?) And yes I found the 3 hour trip to Jey Spa to be well worth the time spent, just to get out of Pattaya for awhile: Super clean, nice guys, more or less reasonable prices. Why don't we have a decent one in Pattaya?? That would be a start.

BINGO wow that's the most exciting innovation I have heard of from Jomtien in YEARS!! :0 Some genius at @Home must have dreamt that one up to excite the crowds! Seriously folks, aren't there better ways to "have fun" than sit around punishing our livers while passively oogling the merchandise? You know many years ago Jim Lumsden and Gordon May came to town and built Boys Boys Boys and the Ambiance Hotel and totally revolutionized the gay scene in Pattaya. It was hard work, and risky work. Just WHEN is the next generation of innovators going to remake our precious city into an appropriate 21st century scene? The current "ambiance" doesn't appear to be working for anyone under 50. Just stroll through JC to see the graying of our compatriots. The clock is ticking!

Good point. I've seen too many of our brethren actively plying young boys with cigarettes, potentially condemning them to a life of coughing and wheezing, addiction to high priced cigarettes, and potentially to lung and other cancers. No one should feel obliged to drink, smoke or do drugs of any kind. I should hasten to add "unsafe sex" to the list as well!

Yes I've been in that office one time and was hoping for listing of rentals. Instead the staff were intent on selling me a new unit. Perhaps I should have prevailed longer in asking for medium-term rentals, but it was obvious their bread and butter was from commissions selling new units in whatever VT#n was on the market at the time. The frailty and disorganization of the real estate market in Pattaya never ceases to amaze me. There must be a better way... Some entrepreneur out there should try to make a consolidated listing website. Just a pipe dream I guess.

Thanks MFJ that information is very helpful thanks!

Sure you will! Keep trying! Even cursory conversation skills will add immeasurably to your experiences in the LOS! I remember one of my earliest trips to Thailand I met a western guy who (working here?) was so fluent in Thai. I said to myself that I could never master the mysterious language either. Well after some years of work (yes it is work) and many language books, conversational tapes, trying to read and pronounce, understanding tones and high-low vowels, etc. I've made reasonably good progress. But yes it does take WORK. If you are older than 3 years old (ahem), language is learned by WORKING. (Oh how I am jealous of those 3 year olds who speak so much more fluently than me!)

Thanks. Well as for the VTs, there seems to be an agency on Thappraya Road, which does do listings for all the VTs it appears. And yes there are agencies near most/all of the large condo complexes (there are two very near Jomtien Complex Condotel) but neither appeared to be interested in multi-month rentals. It's either short stay (read, by the day) or long-term (usually 6 months minimum). Using short-stay rates, a multi-month rental would cost about 2x or 3x more than monthly market rates. VT1 and VT2 may be an exception?

That's a challenge! My favorite but a bit pricey is Grand Centre Point Terminal 21, at Asok. VERY convenient to both BTS and MRT and Airport Line (Makkasan). The one-bedroom apartments on offer are spectacular, and super cheap by western standards but quite expensive by Thai standards. About $149/night on Agoda if you look for bargains. The same apartment in my home city would be around $800/night. LWLT

+1

Yes it's true that walk-in at Jey Spa is possible but the manager makes it clear that this is not the preferred method. I think this is because it seems that most moneyboys don't want to hang around the shop for hours on end hoping for a customer. It makes sense. The boys save time. The shop (probably) saves space and money. The customer is more(?) likely to get what they are looking for, perhaps. Although it is admittedly difficult to decipher from a still photo. For me bearing and attitude make a big difference. I've run in my loong life into many Muscle Mary's where "tops" are really bottoms, and "bottoms" are really equivocal.

After renting the same place in Dongtan each year for many years, I am ready to move on. There seem to be great places to rent as short stay condos, and yearly condos, and maybe even a condo for 1 month, but there seem to be a dearth of ways to rent a multi-month, fully furnished serviced apartment in Jomtien/Dongtan. There seems to be no organized marketplace, and you are at the mercy of finding a single owner with whom you can negotiate a deal. Case in point, a few days ago, I went to the main desk at Jomtien Complex Condotel and asked what rentals are available. The desk person rummaged through his notes and phoned a Chinese lady (who could barely speak English) as his answer. FYI I am looking at some place near Dongtan and JC, for 3 months next year, a well-equipped two-bedroom, two-bath condo. I am considering VT8, Jomtien Plaza Condotel, JCC, Grand Condotel... but have no idea how I can access this market. I'd appreciate it if anybody has any suggestions how go about it?

Yes I've been there recently. My experience was good altho the menu was a bit limited when I visited (maybe 8 guys available?) (at 6pm on a weekday) The manager is helpful if a bit intrusive. Services were good but not of the highest caliber, in my opinion. Room prices are moderate, and reasonably clean. The showers work. It uses the old style (no reservations) which seems to be disappearing in many of the more upscale venues (like Jey Spa). HTH

There is no such thing as good American food, he was right. When I think of eating in my own country my mind wonders to the Jewish delis on the Lower East Side of NY, the amazing BBQ brisket in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, or Memphis, Tennessee and perhaps the Creole cuisine in New Orleans. Nothing else much tempts my palate, no matter how many "gourmet" hamburgers I eat. : ) In fact the best "gourmet hamburgers" are now served by bistros in France!

Oh god touristy Windsor! One of the worst meals I have ever had in my life was, gasp, Fish n Chips at the Duchess of Cambridge restaurant on High Street there. At BP44 it was the most disgusting FnC I have ever had. Unfortunately apparently the monarchy never promoted a "British cuisine". Being so near Windsor Castle, and being named for the next British Queen, to serve such horrible food was a mystery to me. Anyway, back to Pattaya. I had a huge surprise a few days ago when eating at Yayoi on the 5th floor at Central Festival. Surprisingly excellent Japanese food! Succulent salmon sashimi. Super fresh Shrimp Tempura. Excellent Chicken Teriyaki. All at prices which were 1/3 of what they would have been back home. I am definitely going back! Anybody care to join us?

Haha I am always suspicious of Britishers' food recommendations. I used to see a sign on Thappraya which read "Indian food to British taste" which marked it for me as a restaurant to be avoided at all costs. : ) I once had Phad Thai at the Blue Elephant in London (supposedly THE Thai restaurant there at the time) for the most insipid version of the dish I have every tasted. While I have managed to piss off many of my friends here now, hehe, let's continue on undaunted with the worst cuisine in the world: Britain, USA, Australia. Best food in the world: Lebanon, Iran, Morocco, Brasil, Thailand of course! And perhaps Italy and France, although the standards of food in those two countries has gone rapidly downhill in recent years. India deserves honorable mention -- especially for its Punjabi dishes and heavenly Hyderabadi biryanis. Here my favorite dish is pad siu gai, well prepared just slightly burnt, using all the condiments in the usual 4-glass condiment tray in ample measure which is an ubiquitous dish in Thailand.

Oh gosh, not again. The drama around this place has been swirling for far too long. It's a pity really.

Boys' memories are amazing! I think they can (genuinely) recall us far better than we can recall them. Not sure why but it really does seem the case. Which probably means details of our encounters (for good or bad) are also easily recalled. :0

Oops, got cut off... 2. Repeat performances are much more likely to fail. Perhaps one's expectations run too high, or perhaps it is boredom (I've seen this movie before) or ...? Of course perhaps passion can persist, for a week, for a month, for a year, even forever (I've been with my bf for over 30 years!) but in general the likelihood of failure is greater. 3. The more early conversation turns to protracted price negotiations, the more fraught the encounter is likely to be. High fees usually correlate to low performance. 4. Language fluency is not a measure of success. What do you think? Marc