RockyRoadTravel

As much as Bill Clinton irritates me (his light embrace of the Reagan revolution's attack on the American middle-class [and Hilary would have been a better president than him]) I thought his quote from the Democratic convention was stunning. When he said that in the last 30+ years 1 million net jobs have been created under Republican presidents, and 80 million net jobs have been created under Democrats. Research backs up his statement. There's a message to bang home to anyone who's listening. (I chose the word 'bang' because you might be thinking about Man-do-me's messaging.)

The most spot on song from Hamilton (in my opinion) describing America under the MAGA autocracy.

That's partly a big ole misunderstanding. The shedding of manufacturing jobs in the USA had/has more to do with technological change than it does with free trade. Yes, multi-nationals chased lower wages in the 3rd world to increase profits, but equally if not more important, was the automation of production in the USA which laid off millions of American workers. Is there anyone out there stupid enough to think that AI, under this MAGA regime, is going to be used to improve the economic situation of the American working-class? You know, use AI to shorten work weeks and raise wages. That's so 2022.

True

I see you are giving people with Trump Derangement Syndrome a pass - the Lindsay Grahams, Marco Rubios, MTGs, Boeberts , etc.

It's called fear. Fear isn't a by-product of the MAGA agenda, it's the point of it all. Historically right-wing mass movements have arisen in an atmosphere of fear, most obviously Germany and Italy in the 20s and 30s. Fear of the other stoked to distract to destroy representative democracies. Bread and circus. Tariffs and ICE. Illegal immigration crisis at the border. Hmm how about Option A, developing an immigration system that recognizes the economic needs of the America economy and basic human rights. Or alternatively Option B militarize American cities and pick up American citizens off the street and scare the shit out of people. People are less likely to get organized in times of fear. Fear is the point. It's the manipulation MAGA uses to distract "the white working class" while at the same time raising prices through trade wars, the government pocketing all that tariff money to give away to billionaires, and MAGA's continual campaign against personal rights and freedoms of Americans.

European imports will now be 15% more expensive for American consumers. Japanese cars will now be 15% more expensive for American consumers. American automakers will now raise their prices 15% to match. Why? Because they can, why sell cars at a needless 15% discount if your competitor has to raise their price 15%. It's called monopoly controlled capitalism, we don't have a "free market". MAGA economic "policy" doesn't give a shit about America or their supporters.

Tangentially related, it seems to come up over and over and over again. Garland was a poodle when Biden, and basic democracy, needed a pit bull. Note: No offense meant to poodles and pit bulls for breed profiling it's a metaphor MAGA don't go insane.

Not only working-class people who depend on food assistance. The Incompetent in Chief also hates America's farmers who also depend on the SNAP program. So much hate from the White House, so little time.

He couldn't finish a round of golf if he had to walk it. I saw video of him cheating (again), he's such an embarrassment. Some of the Scottish protest signs were funny.

"Stupid racist redneck felon"? I think you are being unkind to rednecks.

Prediction. The Incompetent In Chief will try and have Hogan buried at Arlington

He can inject bleach maybe. This is a really stupid thread that's been created. Let's hope it dies a quick a soundless death.

Not so much about Epstein but more about life in America today. You've just demonstrated the distinction between having a discussion with a non-MAGA supporter and a MAGA supporter. You said you don't care whether it's Epstein, Maxwell, Trump, Clinton etc. You're talking about an issue and a principle not distraction and scoring cheap political points. I appreciate that, if America is going to survive this Trump/MAGA mess we've fallen into, it'll be based on principles.

You show a real commitment to family relationships it sounds like. Kudos to you and very liberal of you. I'm going to bang on about this a bit more because I'm trying to make some sense within the constant chaos. The difference between hate and fear. I think talking about hate implicates a person's values, while fear is more about Trump's tactic. I do believe that Trump is promoting hatred. However, I also believe that few people who support him would consider themselves as hateful. By calling Trump hateful, I'd be calling the values of the person I'm talking to as hateful. More useful I think is Trump's tactic of spreading fear. I don't think focusing on Trump's use of fear as a weapon implicates a person's values in the same way. Chaos and fear are Trump's oxygen and carbon. However, MAGA or non-MAGA does an average citizen want to live in a country where we're living in chaos and fear? Chaos and fear should be pointed out in everyone of his actions. While I believe that hate is a by-product of his chaos and fear, I don't see how it's the place to start or focus an argument. Does your sister want chaos and fear? Could she hear that easier than about Trump's promotion of hatred? We do need to continue to argue and debate and attempt to cross this divide that, in my opinion, Trump and his minions are deliberately creating. While 55% of Americans might see Trump's actions as hateful, I'd bet 70% would see him as promoting fear and chaos.

A way to manage that slippery slope is being honest. She (if she's being honest to herself and you about Trump's actions) would acknowledge she has no interest in recognizing us as a class of people facing systemic discrimination. Citizens who have inalienable rights as a class of people independent of what she or Trump's minions feel. Yet she wants her right to be kind and loving to "a gay" recognized. With generosity I'd describe that as a charity model of emotion. Don't get me wrong charity is better than uncharitable, and it's also got a lot to do with the needs of the person doling out their generosity rather than the person in need. Victorian England gave us charity (is that really where MAGA wants to go, workhouses and no vaccines). Representative democracy is how we won rights.

The MAGA conspiracy rumblings about her trial (where she refused the opportunity to testify and "tell her story") have started. If it's useful for himself personally the Distractor in Chief would issue a pardon without any hesitation. If he can pardon cop killers are pedophiles beyond this White House's pale.

Wait, wait. I hear there has been a reconsideration given today's events. The Kennedy Center Opera House, the Adminidistraction may now be calling it the Hulk Hogan Opera House. Sorry Melania.

Well. Maybe stop calling him Man-do-me

Were you typing with two hands or one hand?

Why? Because it's needlessly complicated. Why provide coverage to the uninsured through a new and complicated process that provides coverage through subsidizing private health care insurance. It would have been (and still is) a far better idea to just extend Medicare to all. More efficient. Cheaper. More immediately understandable.

I didn't get what point you were making?

Both North Carolina and Wisconsin are close to 50/50 states. Each of these States were gerrymandered from representative districts to rigged districts by GOP State legislatures. Wisconsin 6 - 2 and North Carolina 10 - 4. Those five rigged districts are the GOP majority in Congress today. Now the Texas GOP has on their agenda making biased districts even more biased than they already are. In a 55/45 State with 38 districts, 25 are GOP and 12 are Democratic, one vacancy. Currently Democrats would need 60+% of the vote to get 19 of the current districts. (The Texas GOP which last year was discussing a rule where no one could win a State-wide office if they didn't win in a majority of the counties in Texas - ignoring the popular vote.) I commend Newsom for being vocal about the GOP attack on democracy and their gerrymandering, however, I don't agree with his option - if you gerrymander we can too. Rather, I would like Newsom to try and get a number of big blue States together to issue a challenge to the GOP in Texas, Florida, North Carolina and Wisconsin. California challenges the Texas gerrymander. New York challenges the Florida gerrymander. Minnesota challenges the Wisconsin gerrymander. Pennsylvania challenges the North Carolina gerrymander. Let's all have fair boundaries drawn for districts in all our States. Call out the GOP gerrymandering across the country, rather than getting in the gutter with MAGA.

Both are excellent points.

@stevenkesslar In answer to your second question. Yes. Trump does think rural people are stupid. But he also thinks urban people are stupid. He thinks his sons are stupid. He thinks you're stupid. He thinks I'm stupid. He thinks NATO is stupid. He thinks the EU s stupid. He thinks the MAGA crowd is really really stupid.