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OK then-just one more response as to the original Q: have you seen? Yes I have-fairly close by, but in quite another way as you describe. Years ago, when I was still tied to the schoool-holidays, I already visited Thaild and usually stayed at some cheap guesthouse near KhaoSarn. At that time they also had a quite big restrt. One guy, from Isan of course, was always on the lookout for money and ways to gain some. He once scolded me as I had no clue to what the highest prize in the lottery here was (well-we have at least 100+ anyway). He was not pretty, cute or even really gay. He probably got induced by another guy who told the gogobar-trade would be making much easier and better money. But he was quite unaware of the requierments of such a job. After a month or 2 he had learnt the hard way that no offs mean no money in the till. And had to find another job. For a few monthes there was a cute (for most) small-twinky and really gay Isan boy (and making no secret about that)-attempting to study at Ramkamhaeng uni. He was after Japanese guys and succeeded once in hooking one up and staying together-in his room- for a few monthes. But that failed, as did his studies, so after that for a short time before he could return to the old job, he had to turn to sell body-or at least to find a few friends willing to lend a bit. Mixed success in that-I think that area is simply not fit for the trade. I still see him sometimes-he looks the same as nearly 10 years ago, but is both sadder and wiser-but also still hooked on JPNese. Even though many girls there have succeeded in hooking up with farang boyfriends-up till paid vacations in USA or Europe or even marriage and setting up shared bisnis somewhere. Quite different from the usual known Thai bargirls scene. There is even a book written on that fenomenon (not by me- after I had seen it, I realised the one who had).

as another side: GR has much more done to outdo the street-side sex for rent vendors. I hardly ever come there (you may want to take a walk around the block when visiting that DJ again) but the once fanmous Ram IV late eve. scene is said to have all dried out. BKKs other most well known venue for that-Thai style, the Saranrom park, is also in obvious decline-re nr. of boys idling and times when they can be seen. Now back in a very cold and snowy Europe I read the same about the various closures of former gays -meet-bars. This also being blamed to GR and those sites. Seems rather that BKK is still lagging behind that.

NO-this is Thailand-the scala of opportunities is far bigger as you now think. To be very honest: this comes from a decent scientific study from at least 20 years ago now (I must still have it somewhere in the attic). It described various styles of how MBs could operate- from near criminal (also thieving etc.) street side vendors to very skilled hi-5 class ''serial relations''.(paid, that is-perhaps even without the obvious hint of being paid, but all expenses taken care of). In fact I distrust BKKs smart students a bit-as I do with most BKK people (remember their bak waan=sweet mouth?). You simply never can trust them. Well-you cannot trust any Thai, but once a simple Isan boy has discovered that sugar-daddy pays for anything and keeps him, he may be quite satisfied with that undreamt of employment. And back to your original Q: (yes, I fully understand you wwre smitten by him and now feel thrown in the dustbin). just imagine this guy had landed him a well-paid job for say 10kTHB/month. he would still come to DJ -maybe not 7 days/week, but 3-4-5. He would still down the required red Johnnies-if just to impress his friends, who know he has the money. And go with anyone whom he fancied. In a month of 3-4 he would not that even his quite big salary would not be enough to sustain those habits (if he did not note-he is not worth that job at all anyway). So there would be that smiling farang, well knowing about easy preys. Result: same same, but just a few weeks later.

yes, some of BKKs 40+ gay sauna, sometimes, or on a weekly base, may have special nude nights-or more likely nude zones. Even then and there do not expect anyone to adhere to that. More annoying is, that they also may have small towel nights or underwear nights or whateevr is the current fade-once 1 starts, the whole bunch follows. This is usually on their Thai-only websites. In Thaivisa forum (I think) there was a recently same question-from obvious str8s, and there was a link to a fairly new Thai naturist society, claiming to have 4or5 properties spread over the country. Google for thailand-naturist society-I am now too lazy for that. And think: this is tropics, any white skinned farang gets burned as a barbecue within minutes by exposing areas where the sun never shines to it.

the whole story is just a few posts below: by gaybutton, on 1-2-CALL. This is Thaild most known mobuy provider. SIMcards can be had from 20 bt,or sometimes free. However, the main thing to note is that you buy both time and money with topupcards: in the many offices of the fone comp. you can choose a program to have the lapse-time much longer-up to 1 year. TYhat is: if you want that-with those DJ boys it might be wiser to have a nr that expires soon after you exit Thailnd. As always: up to you. Also: be very, very caereful as to who you give out your nr.-expect endless requests for whatever later on.

When you exactly count the nr of go-go-bars in Silom/Suriwong in BKK, then the total is stable since at least this century. Sure, some close, get refurbished and a new owner and a new name, then reopen, the odd one has moved (to a cheaper rent-location),but bars like Golden C-k, MyWay (on Ram IV), Screwboy, the former twilight-then Hotmail, are around since about as long as I can remember. But before 2000 there were hardly any massage shops around there and now at least 7 in this area plainly aiming at gay-not so much massage but afters, and a dozen or so (quite a few opened the last 3-4 monthes) acting more hidden. Agree what several others have written about a clear distinction between PTY and BKK. It always seemed to me that about any boy in PTY would make himself available-even the most ugly motosy-taxi-drivers. Still I wonder if a boy would be able to gain a living in ''selling body'' (as that is the exact translation from Thai as they name it) via gayROmeo or whatever site. Here in Europe this is for rental boys THE way to do bisnis.

Tha Sapan kwai karaOKe bars are just that: boys were street clothes, there is one big bar with maybe a few partly separate ''boxes'' and you order a drink and if, you want/like that, can choose (in Thai only) from enormous books full of CDs with KaraOke. Then you can do what that is supposed to be (and what most farang dislike like hell and most Asians seem to enjoy like heaven), if you want with the boy of choice too. The usualThai set-up: most order a big bottle of Johnny or cheaper and mixers for the time and invite some around. Steady customers leave their bottle (with a stripe to check the contents) for next time if unfinished. The boys are off-able. There are several cheap and cheerful short-time HTLs nearby. In the very past (<2000) S Kwai had more go-go bars, for a time most fanous was Midnight Cowboy. Now only Be High is left and the remaining other bars are all concentrated into 1 short sidesoi-they sued to be spread around all over.

Here in BKK-if you simply look at the nr. of venues, it is not so much GR/or the other www-sites that have taken over, but the massage-shops. When I came to Thaild/BKK first-around 1989, there were hardly any. Now at least 60+ and spread out all over town. Sure-also 3 or 4 in soi Hotmail/Pratuchai, but the better ones are in suburbia. In Sapan Kwai the former gogo have all but 1 closed-changed format into KaraOke. Around Silom the total nr is only slightly declining. Pattaya simply has a giant oversupply in everything-far too much to survive if tourist nrs. go down or even just stable. Real 5***-boys have always had other means to attract a steady, select and well-off clientele. Even before there was a mobuy fone. In the past-when I hit a nice guy, I asked for his nr and made a secret deal after once in the bar. I write this as just yesterday I hit a former gogoboy in a massageshop. He was really glad to have made this transfer. I would like to post a related topic: Would you advise a boy working in a gogobar, with which he is not that happy, but is great in the services he provides to clients, to change over to GR as main forms of attracting customers? he is not that computer-savvy (yet?)-but I guess there are always others to help him out at the start for a small fee-just like in the past there were those letter-writing former bargirls helping out new girls in claiming lost buffaloes and the like.

could not this be turned into a sticky-as there will be a new barbeer opening up about anytime of the year. Make another sticky about the ones closing down-I bet also at least 1 every single day of the year. Woulkd anyone really note a name for them-just walk by and see what going on when youre there-even theyre newly opened-they may close down within 1 week. This is Thailand-nothing ever stays the same and all is just in transition.

Deutschland is indeed reunited since over 20 years now. I very well remember also going into the former DDR and what it looked like. The current Germany, nor in fact any of EU-member states, is known for particularly low taxing. But bach to the subject; I just have seen/heard too many of these venodrs protests. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. There are clearly FAR too many of them, all without any imaginative fresh new stock, all try to gauge and overcharge, vendors spend up to 50% of their precious time (well-time is not very precious in Thailand-thats an US-idea) in protecting their turf from competition and preceived infringements. They block the sideways, litter after leaving and seem to think that paying off the BiBs is like ''renting'' their patch with any right to chase off anyone. Turn modern, shop in AC-comfort with clear 9and lower) prices-go to the big bioys ike BigC, TescoLotus etc. If you see the 100.000s of Thai also shopping there (and the empty stalls etc.) then this should be clear. Also vendors are like ''fish-wifes'' as we call them in our language: they also know all the tricks to heartbreak unknowing farang by making it look like they only loose out (if they did-why would they run that shop so long??)-these protests are just to be expected and only meant to lower the pricehike.

oh dear-it must be obsessing you a lot-as this is the next forum you post it on. You must have noted that all these 3/4 gay fora mainly attract the same people (at least I do not bother to have different names everywhere). I gave you my answer already. But ADD now a little in a positive way as to the points you raised: just realise how well this DF=dear friend now gains extra skills for Thai life. Better english, better bargaining skills, meeting heaps of interesting people (well-we gays know a wee bit more of this world as those silly brainless str8s-dont we?) who may have openings for interesting jobs, or are even willing to sponsor a stint-or 2 in some foreign interesting country, like Swissuhlend. Besides-he graduated from a minor uni-which means his education is barely equal to a finished grammarschool in the UK. As a Isan-boy any HiSo BKK-boss looks down on him. Maybe he would get a job like hoteldesk or other very boring offith. I bet not even qualified for a bank or the like. Expected monthly pay: 8-10.K/THB/duan-at the MOST. PLus you do not see that those Thai guys think that every eve in a bar (ear splitting deafening music, you get to see the very latest new mobuy as soon as its in a shop, no lao-khao or even Sangsom but Johnny red or even black; now THATS Life in the hi-stream-you have made it in life-a normal job would never finance that. And you say he is still isan-style charming, taking care of people, even if they are customers, has more brains as a lad str8 from the farm-so he fullfills what many sexpats are looking for and are willing to pay high prices for. A real gem in this Thai MB-world!

remembered this thread-but due to some comp.errors in another webshop my contribution seems not to have gone through. For ideas for BKK-daytrips: check a site like bangkok-daytrips (iuts linked via the paknamfora-on thailandqa). Those Sarasin bars were/(never been-but from what I read) a fading wave for a few monthes-maybe 1 year. Sure-there are eternal, Sarasin V|bars/cafes, but a few went gay -and aimed at HiSo Chula students. That did not last long. And as all bars: late eve/night only=not daytime. Frankly: this enormous city KrungThep Maha Nakorn is very low in sightworthy sites. If you are not into shopping (and most wats look like 13 in a dozen parking lots) it is very disappointing-compared to any European city. But thats Asian-multi-million cities like Jakarta or Manila have even less. So maybe you follow up the cruising suggestions in another forum: visit all BigC supercentres and check out the loos for contacts-there are at least 30 in KTM. As for the eves: that bentness on DJ (insure your ears for overloud music) will end-that means it gets time to visit the real Thai bars-gay students, in RamkamHaeng/Lamsalee or Chatuchak/Mochit (OToKo=along kampeng Phet Road). The blog ricequeendiary has various (a bit older) items on that.

lae khan-thank you, terima kasi, sze-sze, takk so mycket or whatever. Probably have to leave Thald pretty soon-family matters. But I just use -while in Thaild-webshops (rate 10 bt/hr-discount for many hours) and thats for maybe 1-2 hrs/day, incl. reading news from home, any mails-urgent-from work and various other non-gay forums. Misspelling (in this case) is deliberately meant as a kind of ironic hint. (Actually-I spend more time in reading as typing). But I DO think that a lot of Qs are easily answered by just some straightforward thinking. If Asians attract you so much-and with your aversion of MBs-then I advise you the real Indonesia=not Bali.

no same-same has happened in Japan. (was a bargain-believe it or not-in the 50 ies). Happened near overnight-well in a few weeks, in many other countries that got new fresh valuta-systems. But there will always be a new one just getting on this exciting newly opened world of gainging money from starved farang/whitenoses.

1. for general reviews look at sites like tripadvisor for these upmarket HTls. I never stay there. (note that some of them may have strict guest policies_read between lines on tripadv and this will be noted. 2. As (due to job) have to peruse those sites what they write about Thaild from time to time, I remember a very recent item for HTls you book via a broker without knowing the name. Very good 5** HTLS around Silom, like Lebua and Dusit Thani could be had for 3000 THB or around. Again; DT is often cited due to its strict guest rules.

why is this thread remaining here-and not in GayAasia? well-never mind. 2.that city is NHA TRANG and just as Da Nang a fairly stretched out along the beach town. Sure there will be gay life-as it also is in about any mini Thai provincial town, but if you by now have ever been there, you may have noted there are no real ''venues'' like in a Spartacus-guidebook. Later at night anyone gathers beachside and the age-old tric (but of course by now o-so polit. INcorrect) of having the very cheap local cigs at hand to make some friends still works. or the numerous ''bia hoi=fresh beer'' stands. As a very general simplification about the pitfalls (yes, these exist too): Han is said to have more crooky-cheats and HCMC more MBs=money boys. You by now must have enough of Asian experience to know that ''hansum/beauty/roopraw'' means just 1 thing in the whole of SEAsia: a whiter skin. Obviously the Northern Vnese are more akin to Chinese, the southern a diverse mix of Thai/Khmer/Pinoy/Indonesian=Malay. I like the latter more. In general=nongay traveller/bekpek scene Vnam fairly often gets the raft becse of its never ending money-gauging efforts. For general info you are far beter off at those fora like LP/TT (BTW: do you post as Thai BL on there?) or travelfish. Avoid tripadvisor like the plague for that.

the first PTY-gay bars were not in Boyzotwn or even near that area as it is named today. When the first gay bars there opened (I guess that must have been Cockpit and gentlemen's Club-but those who know PTY better will surely correct this and know more. Only some time after BBB had opened and gained a big reputation, to be followed up by other places opening nearby, this name was chosen and a big street-sign erected. Must (memories may fail) around 1884/95, I guess. I could search for it as I hold various old edtions of TMOT=The men of Thailand, in pre-www years the best source for general intro and specific listings.

Of course there has been-and is now. Along the river, obviously. As happens about every year around this time. The areas where most of posters here stay/know of, are still hardly, if at all, affected. BUT: the worst has yet to come-presumably this weekend. Just like every year, river-sides have been reinforced with sandbags, but if that will hold remains to be seen. Obviously, if flooding gets worse, it will be along the low-lying areas along the river. For how far, how deep and how long: only Buddha knows. PS: if you read reports (the usual forums like thaivisa or lonelyplanet or tripadvisor have them a plnety), then they, in the age-old Thai custom always list PROVINCES, of which BKK is one. Provinces can be quite large, up to the size of a minor country-and obvously this will not mean the whole of that province is flooded. In fact its quite superfluous: look at a decent map, and any province along the major rivers will have flooding-of some kind right now.

1.domestic USA does not have that much to do with Thailand. 2.In these parts of the world-Asia and the like, 1st cl. is not for Joe Common, but for people who fly on others expense: Minusters, superhigh government officials, members of the Royal family etc. Even if you have booked and paid-you will be bumped if someone much higher in the Thai hierarchy turns up-even at last moment. But finally I think that forums like flyertalk are better fit for these things.

as above-josan No, no specific areas, at least I never ever have heard of them. FMP is not invented by OZzies-but by money-thinking Thai, who gradually shifted from other addictions to booze and buckets of mixed alcoholic drinks-and VERY loud music-take double earplugs. among young gays/from Europe, thailand has no real fascination (other as the country itself)-the common idea seems to be that there is only paid sex-and they feel to big for that (no- you do not have to tell us this is false- just try to explain them). BTW; besdie FMP there are also Half MP and Black MPs-a little less known and visited. At FMP term all accomodation is hopelessly fully booked out.

As it appears one is busy to get this forum changed and updated, just a small remark about what I just found: -as a start: I use public computers-in many different places. SO I need to log in. Usually I only start doing that when I think a question needs an answer-so many times I just read and see (and do not log in). In the past you could then easily log in if you wanted to respond and got back to that question-but today this seemed to have vanished-so that means getting back to main menu, log in, and then refinding the relevant question. A little bit annoying and as I also see/read other fora, I note that the old way is at least a littel less time-consuming (but maybe I am the only one without his onw computer?)

Yes-I know this is a kind of standard feature in new fora-programs, I personally do not really like it, as it somehow stimulates multi-posters in a kind of (friendly or not) struggle of who gets the most points/hearts/credits or whatever. So I suggest: if you start with it, let posters choose if they want to get involved in it.

this is a kind of ever recycled article-must have seen it linked by now at least 10+ times-and not just in US-newspprs. Started in either British or German. Well-any newsppr must have a few things on the shelf-timeless, to print when other news is low. There is also one on the wheatl these wstern farang import in the Isan-area-by building well constructed houses, needing supermarkets that stock all kind of weird food (in the eyes of the Lao-Thai) etc. Just wait for that to come into.

First this (yes, teacherly remark): mention BKK-Krung Thep-as otherwise many people wonder where this is all about. Sorry-as presently not in BKk do not have definite answer. But: look in BKK-post, ads, they always advertise there. There are always the big buses from the tesco Lotus Carpark at Onnut BTS-one very early and one later in the day. It may very well be that this bus has more stops. Or: check Thaivisa-they specialise in these kind of things and I do recall having read very same Q over there. Or even better: do it all by yourself-its not that challenging, free choice of bus and pace and less cost. Best way is then the 8.15 (maybe 8.30) yellow bus right till border Aran from Swampy Bus terminal-with the unique chance to try out the new Airportlink from Phayathai BTS to reach it. Last bus from Aran about 18.00 (to the Mochit). If you do not have any other pre-arranged Thai visa-you get stamped back in as visum-exempt for only 15 days (land crossing) and must have held a Khmer visum from just before. More info on: talesofasia.com

as these rules already seem so confusing to anyone, it will help if the RIGHT words are used-to avoid any more unnecessary confusion. 1. 30-day visa do not even exist. IF you apply (as a westerner) for a tourist-visum, you'll get 60 days. 2. visa on arrival is in fact even IMPossible to gain for westerners-what you get ( if flying in) is a 30-day visum EXEMPT, or for just 15 days if arriving by land. This term is used only for 2nd rate nationals, like Czechs, Chinese, Indians etc. It cannot be had at all borderpost and first you line up to get it issued (and paid for-scrapped temporarily this year). 3. as such a visum does not differentiate in how you arrive: land, sea, air. 4. IF people report problems, it is most often at the check-in and in just a few specific countries, notably Australia, the USA and sometimes NZ. They strictly will want to see a ticket out of Thailand, if you do not hold any pre-arranged visum.