At one time in my life I thought same as you about paying for sex. Then, when I realized I wasn't getting any sex I started paying and never looked back. Now I get what I want and when I want. Why anyone would come to Thailand and not be willing to pay for sex is beyond me anymore than trying to get a free meal, free lodging, free transportation, etc.

 

Thank you kokopelli, a very helpful post.  I realize that, although I get free sex, it is not often what I like the best.  So why should I not add some of the oldest "attraction" in the world?

I've seen some farangs with 'free sex' guys. Some of the 'free sex' boys, I wouldn't go with if they paid Me. Beauty always

in the eye of the beholder. There are times I sit in a Gogo bar and look at a extremely unattractive boy and ponder, who would

ever choose him, and then some farang offs the boy.

Some farangs take on all comers. Glory holes and cottaging fans glorify their experiences and it's free!

Dark rooms, where it might be your elderly farang friend groping you, works for some and it's free.

One old farang I know boasts he's never paid. He sits alone every day watching tv and probably porn but it's free..

I've seen some farangs with 'free sex' guys. Some of the 'free sex' boys, I wouldn't go with if they paid Me. Beauty always

in the eye of the beholder. There are times I sit in a Gogo bar and look at a extremely unattractive boy and ponder, who would

ever choose him, and then some farang offs the boy.

Some farangs take on all comers. Glory holes and cottaging fans glorify their experiences and it's free!

Dark rooms, where it might be your elderly farang friend groping you, works for some and it's free.

One old farang I know boasts he's never paid. He sits alone every day watching tv and probably porn but it's free..

 

I realize that for some individuals who buy their sex,  sex is something that has a price attached, like 1000 ST or 2000 LT for a good quality boy, and so as the price gets lower, the quality gets lower too.  If the price goes town to zero, so it happens with the quality, and this is what one gets for "free sex".    

 

But for some of us, "free sex" is simply the natural non-commercial interaction with a person one is sexually attracted to, and "non commercial" can be great too!!    

In my long experience with picking up guys, visiting gay saunas in multiple countries, from casual acts to short romances since the early days, the idea that all that sex was "free" never crossed my mind.  Of course,  I always have been and plan to be "free sex" myself.  I have never set a price for my body, haha.

 

Some of my "free sex" even you with your high standards would find attractive.  

Although I have no moral problems with paid sex,  it is very helpful the concept of contributing to the support of a young person and eventually his family.  And I like generosity and win-win situations.

 

How do you know the money you pay him for sex eventually goes to his family?  Why is it even important?  When you employ somebody to perform a certain service for you, for e.g, to mow the lawn, do you care where the money ends up?  Do you even think about it?  Does your boss care how you spend your salary every month? This is not even a sustained employer-employee relationship but most of the time a one-off with somebody you barely even know. But why when it comes to you paying for sex, why is it "helpful" and "important" to know that the money you paid him to blow you or to fuck him (and vice versa) goes towards the support of his family?  Why the need to attach the payment you made for sex to some altruistic or charitable cause?

How do you know the money you pay him for sex eventually goes to his family?  Why is it even important?  When you employ somebody to perform a certain service for you, for e.g, to mow the lawn, do you care where the money ends up?  Do you even think about it?  Does your boss care how you spend your salary every month? This is not even a sustained employer-employee relationship but a one-off most of the time. But why when it comes to you paying for sex, why is it "helpful" and "important" to know that the money you paid him to blow you or to fuck him (and vice versa) goes towards the support of his family?  Why the need to attach the payment you made for sex to some altruistic or charitable cause?

 

Your post made me reflect.  Why do I care where the money I pay for services goes to?  Maybe this is a weakness?

 

On the other hand, I pleased with caring where this money goes.  It surely makes it easier to spend when I know that it serves to fulfill a need.  I cannot feel this way when I pay my income taxes,  but why should I not feel this for a nice boy I have sex with?  Or should I think that he is a big corporation and the money goes to some shareholders?

 

Please explain why you think that I am wrong.

Why the need to attach the payment you made for sex to some altruistic or charitable cause?

 

Who knows!  Christian guilt, self-justification to fill an inner security for having paid for it, etc.  I guess it is for the same reasons people need to say how they don't need to pay for sex because they are not repulsive, tell the world what a big tipper and kind soul they are, etc.  Probably also for the same reasons why a question about viagra is never asked on behalf of themselves but for a "friend".  I have a hardcore Irish Catholic friend who feels so guilty about his relationship with his 30-years younger Thai boyfriend that he buys his bf a new condo every year and everyone in town knows that the Thai bf fucks around like a Jack rabbit!!!  All manner of guilt and insecurities in real life and the internet. Such is life. 

"Why the need to attach the payment you made for sex to some altruistic or charitable cause?"

 

Who knows!  Christian guilt, self-justification to fill an inner security for having paid for it, etc.  I guess it is for the same reasons people need to say how they don't need to pay for sex because they are not repulsive, tell the world what a big tipper and kind soul they are, etc.  Probably also for the same reasons why a question about viagra is never asked on behalf of themselves but for a "friend".  I have a hardcore Irish Catholic friend who feels so guilty about his relationship with his 30-years younger Thai boyfriend... etc.

 

Good question.  

 

Even more intriguing is why the attachment of a payment for sex to altruistic or charitable causes is assumed to be A NEED. You may have your friend hardcore Irish Catholic that does all these things,  and you interpret his actions as A NEED.  Is this because there is A NEED to assign some negativity to the feelings others have but not oneself?

 

Because I have not read why it is BAD when one LIKES to attach altruistic and charitable causes.  To say that the LIKE is a NEED sounds like playing psychologist and preach psychology 101 for reasons that are not clear.

Good question.  

 

Even more intriguing is why the attachment of a payment for sex to altruistic or charitable causes is assumed to be A NEED. You may have your friend hardcore Irish Catholic that does all these things,  and you interpret his actions as A NEED.  Is this because there is A NEED to assign some negativity to the feelings others have but not oneself?

 

Because I have not read why it is BAD when one LIKES to attach altruistic and charitable causes.  To say that the LIKE is a NEED sounds like playing psychologist and preach psychology 101 for reasons that are not clear.

 

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to strike a nerve.  Now you're all upset - all those sensitive words in upper case.  It wasn't my intention to upset you - I didn't realize you would take it so personally.  I get it now that this paid sex thing is a big deal for you and I should have paid more attention to the words I used.  I'm no linguist and not good with semantics and splitting hairs so please use whatever word that suits your sensitivities be it "likes", "wants" or "needs".

 

As for my friend, I wasn't "interpreting" anything but my information is based on what he has told me himself.   Like you, this is also a big issue for him; you had paid sex only once as you claimed - can you imagine what it must be like for him living with someone who would not have stayed for over 10 years but for the money.

you both have valid points, but I feel you are not exactly on the same page. I didn't get the impression that steveboy got upset. He just wanted to high light the difference between a need and a like, which is indeed different. The need FG implies is a result of guilt that the person want (needs) to compensate for by attaching an altruistic charity value to the payment. That is surely true  for some people.

 

However, I thing steve does feel no such guilt and just likes the fact that a payment that is made anyway for a "normal" business transaction also goes to a good cause as a side-effect. That is surely true for some (other) people (including myself). This concept applies to ANY payment for ANY service (or goods). If the payment helps some poor person as a side-effect of the transaction, great and appreciated, if not, so be it. 

I find this side topic introduced by steveboy entertaining and interesting.  I was not aware that westerners belabor so much on the whys and justifications for buying the services of a prostitute.  I have not come across such enthusiasm or curiosity on the Thai side of things.  Buying and selling sex is very commonplace in Thailand as you know, particularly among ourselves.  We are just very discreet about it or would like to pretend that nobody knows or notices and for the most part we turn the other cheek and pretend that it does not happen in that quintessential Thai way.    I thank all sides for their perspectives and civilized discussion.  Amusing and enlightening indeed.

 

Because I have not read why it is BAD when one LIKES to attach altruistic and charitable causes. 

 

I do not think that it is bad to attach altruistic and charitable causes to having paid sex with a prostitute.  For all you know, the prostitute might be thinking the same, that he is performing an act of charity and kindness by having sex with you in addition to getting some Baht (and butt).

When I look around the bars and clubs in Pattaya and I see handsome young Thai guys with fat ugly old farangs like myself I definitely agree that the guy is performing "an act of charity and kindness" by having ANY sort of sex with us, paid or unpaid.

For all you know, the prostitute might be thinking the same, that he is performing an act of charity and kindness by having sex with you in addition to getting some Baht (and butt).

This is so true. I have always thought the same that what they are doing is a kind of charity since I could never do the things they do even getting paid handsomely.

Any people here come from Netherland? Prostitution is legal and common in some specific districts in the country, will those ppl who paying for prostitution there also hving the thinking of providing good cause or for charity purpose?

Good Luck getting anything in Amsterdam like Thai Boys service with smile for much less then Amsterdam.

 

Why do you think men spend thousands on air and hotels ?

In Europe you risk meeting all sorts of shady characters working in that line of business. 

 

OK, the best of them have a good attitude to their customer & speak enough English to have a very pleasant & enlightened conversation in addition to any services provided.

 

The worst of them will try to get you to pay up front, as they have no intention of fulfilling any of their promises. The last thing you want to do is pay up front, so always refuse. 

Some are quite charming, then when they get to your room, suddenly they get awkward & forget all promises.  In the worst cases, it is necessary to physically throw them out.  There is no pleasure at all to that.

However, I thing steve does feel no such guilt and just likes the fact that a payment that is made anyway for a "normal" business transaction also goes to a good cause as a side-effect. That is surely true for some (other) people (including myself). This concept applies to ANY payment for ANY service (or goods). If the payment helps some poor person as a side-effect of the transaction, great and appreciated, if not, so be it. 

 

Thank you, you understand perfectly. I am enjoying this conversation that opens to me new venues of thinking about paid sex.  Not that I will rush and spend my income on boys, but I like to recognize the good in the actions of people, here in this particular exchange of services.

I do not think that it is bad to attach altruistic and charitable causes to having paid sex with a prostitute.  For all you know, the prostitute might be thinking the same, that he is performing an act of charity and kindness by having sex with you in addition to getting some Baht (and butt).

 

Brilliant !!  One more thought that had never occurred to me.  "The prostitute may be performing an act of charity and kindness by having sex with a needy client"

 

At the risk of being judged as pushing my 'virtues',  I have to relate a change of heart in the recent years.  I never did push away an unsolicited attention with the same gesture one shakes off a poisonous insect like some immature narcissists do, but I simply said "no, thank you".  Now I increasingly empathize with those who are driven by their needs, and I don't mind them getting some satisfaction by a light contact with what still seems to attract them in an middle-aged body.  I like the idea of karma, and if I let others get some pleasure from me, by the time I'm in their situation I will be paid back in kind.

 

With this idea, the exchange of money becomes a lesser core of the interaction but more of a necessary protocol.  I just returned from a visit of a friend in a hospital, where I observed the work of nurses and other staff.  They don't appear to be doing what they do because they are paid to do it.

I'm sorry; I didn't mean to strike a nerve.  Now you're all upset - all those sensitive words in upper case.  It wasn't my intention to upset you - I didn't realize you would take it so personally.  I get it now that this paid sex thing is a big deal for you and I should have paid more attention to the words I used.  I'm no linguist and not good with semantics and splitting hairs so please use whatever word that suits your sensitivities be it "likes", "wants" or "needs".

 

As for my friend, I wasn't "interpreting" anything but my information is based on what he has told me himself.   Like you, this is also a big issue for him; you had paid sex only once as you claimed - can you imagine what it must be like for him living with someone who would not have stayed for over 10 years but for the money.

 

Oh please,  no need to apologize for anything!  We are having a pleasant exchange of ideas, for me quite productive.

I can imagine what it is for your friend to stay with a young guy who would not be there but for the money.  I imagine this all the time about beautiful women who live in luxury married to wealthy husbands.  They all say that they are there because of 'love'. I think 'convenience' is less crude than 'money'.  Your friend offers his boy a convenience that is a fertile food for love.

 I like the idea of karma, and if I let others get some pleasure from me, by the time I'm in their situation I will be paid back in kind.

 

With this idea, the exchange of money becomes a lesser core of the interaction but more of a necessary protocol.  I just returned from a visit of a friend in a hospital, where I observed the work of nurses and other staff.  They don't appear to be doing what they do because they are paid to do it.

 

Maybe not, but try removing that "necessary protocol" and stop paying the nurses and we'll see whether they'll continue to do what they do. Relatively poor countries like Thailand and the Philippines are losing well-trained, English-speaking nurses to places like Singapore, the UAE and the UK.  They go where the money is, chasing after that euphemistic 'protocol' which is very necessary to them.  They must also be thrilled to know that you're implicitly comparing the work they do to sex work.

They must also be thrilled to know that you're implicitly comparing the work they do to sex work.

With due respect to nurses, we must not forget that because of Thai boys'sex work' many older farangs saved from their lonely existence at home country.

Maybe not, but try removing that "necessary protocol" and stop paying the nurses and we'll see whether they'll continue to do what they do. Relatively poor countries like Thailand and the Philippines are losing well-trained, English-speaking nurses to places like Singapore, the UAE and the UK.  They go where the money is, chasing after that euphemistic 'protocol' which is very necessary to them.  They must also be thrilled to know that you're implicitly comparing the work they do to sex work.

 

LOL, I love this thread! 

 

In the US hospitals you see nurses from the Philippines everywhere.  And they are as good as the American ones.  And even more you find doctors from foreign countries, many from Asia, east Europe.  It seems that so many young native Americans find that to follow a career in health care is too much work,  and they prefer to get an easy job in some food store.

 

Who knows how many of the successful professionals from these countries were able to make it thanks to the money some "sex worker" made with farang tourists...

 

Many people from these countries work overseas in very menial jobs, like the maids in Singapore that are brought from the Philippines, and they also send back money to help their families.  

 

I don't know about you,  but... I don't know...  I'm not sure...  would I like to be a maid in Singapore, cleaning the bathrooms of a despotic family,  or would I prefer to be a "sex worker" for tourists in BKK?   If I would be that lucky to have a body that attracts many clients, I would choose the "sex work" many times.

 

There is much in common among people who work to support themselves and others, and this deserves respect as long as the work is honest.  I find nothing dishonest in "sex work", same as there is nothing dishonest in the work of a nurse.  Both satisfy some needs.

With due respect to nurses, we must not forget that because of Thai boys'sex work' many older farangs saved from their lonely existence at home country.

 

That may be true but when I am sick and in hospital or need specialized care at home, I need a nurse.  Most people, especially the elderly, cannot do without nurses but they should be able to cope without Thai boys.  I need the services of a nurse but I would like to have a Thai boy.  I hope steveboy will approve of my use of "need" and "like" here.  The point is not whether what job is more respectable or honest, I think the point that Prakanong is making is that nurses perform essential, work requiring specialized training, which is not the same as the work that sex workers do.

 

 

I don't know about you,  but... I don't know...  I'm not sure...  would I like to be a maid in Singapore, cleaning the bathrooms of a despotic family,  or would I prefer to be a "sex worker" for tourists in BKK?   If I would be that lucky to have a body that attracts many clients, I would choose the "sex work" many times.

 

I thought we have already established that you have a sexy body and have to turn away "unsolicited attention" from prostitutes, middle aged guys and my Aunt Myrtle?  You have made it loud and clear in your posts that you are different from the rest of us.

 

You are a hoot steveboy and I enjoyed your posts.  You remind me so much of beachlover and his wind ups.  Hope you enjoy your next visit to Thailand.  I am off to meet a few friends for breakfast. 

I thought we have already established that you have a sexy body and have to turn away "unsolicited attention" from prostitutes, middle aged guys and my Aunt Myrtle?  You have made it loud and clear in your posts that you are different from the rest of us.

 

Me different from "the rest of us"?  I find that all the posters here have their differences. 

On the contrary I find that I'm coming closer to those here who like to have fun with Thai boys.  I think that they are ahead of me.

 

I never had to turn away from "unsolicited attention" from your Aunt Myrle, because I never got any attention from her.  But maybe you did?  And I think that everybody in this forum has or had to turn away "unsolicited attention" at one time or another.

 

Have a good breakfast with your friends.  Here in the US I am getting ready to have a good night of sleep.

I realize that for some individuals who buy their sex,  sex is something that has a price attached, like 1000 ST or 2000 LT for a good quality boy, and so as the price gets lower, the quality gets lower too.  If the price goes town to zero, so it happens with the quality, and this is what one gets for "free sex".    

 

But for some of us, "free sex" is simply the natural non-commercial interaction with a person one is sexually attracted to, and "non commercial" can be great too!!    

 

I think it is quite clear that williewillie is referring to the situation in Pattaya and places similar to it, where most of the sex is for pay and some it is free and his comments refer to the quality of free sex there.  He is not referring to non-paid sex in other places all over the world as you have experienced and taken great pains to point out.  Really, non-commercial liaisons can be great too?  Who knew.  Thank you for the heads up.

 

 

Please explain why you think that I am wrong.

 

My rhetorical questions were meant to suggest that explanations are not necessary.