Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump

[stevenkesslar]

19 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

But her hair and makeup are always perfect, so in her heart of hearts, she wants to be LOVED by the GAYS. 

You got two replies.  So I am taking two, as well.

It's funny.  You literally just described an email exchange I had with my MAGA niece yesterday.  And what you said is literally true.  Hee hair is always perfect.  And she does genuinely love her Gay uncle.  But she is hands down the most MAGA relative I have.  The other ones are basically people who would rather have Romney, but will accept Trump.  She would rather have Trump.  She thinks these people like Romney are useless RINOs. 

Yet, at the same time, she wants to feel like she's a moderate who can accept that whole GAY THING.  So part of her MO is that she'll suggest we go to a Gay bar or do something Gay so she can check the box and say she's not one of those haters.  Whatever her motivation, which is at core that she loves her uncle, it is all fine with me.  I would rather have her try than just be a hater.

So she sent me an email yesterday saying I should check out this series called Fellow Travelers.  I debated how to respond.  But I decided I will go there.  So I informed her that I watched the whole series in 2023.  It was outstanding, but also relentlessly depressing.  And it is interesting that you mention THAT series. Because it is all about how THE GAYS were persecuted and crushed in the 1950's.  And many Gay men feel the exact same thing is happening under Trump.  including close friends of mine, who are tormented by the fact that their siblings love their Gay brother, but support Trump.  She knows I don't have that issue with my family, because she is one of THEM.

I'm sure she had no clue that she was exposing a certain type of ignorance, like Trump does when he praises the Black leader of an English speaking country for speaking English well.  I'm sure my response annoyed her.  I could have left it at saying it is just more fun to watch Jonathan Bailey dance and be pretty in Wicked than it is to watch him be persecuted and die of AIDS in Fellow Travelers.  I gave her a small piece of information that she does not want to know, probably.  And will almost certainly ignore.

@lookin mentioned a friend who keeps trying to convince these true and loyal MAGA folks that they are wrong.  She is an example of that in my life.  And why @lookin is right.  It make no sense to try to change their mind.  Our dumb cruel loyal dog is a much more extreme example.  As least my niece and I are smart enough to mostly avoid the topic. 

But she does want to be LOVED by the GAYS.  So go figure.

Again, I take this as an indicator of just how incredible the victory our community won is.  We changed hearts and minds all over the world.  So while the persecution is real, as you keep saying, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

[Suckrates]

17 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

Doesn't everyone? 

I mean, even under Trump with MAGA folk, it is STILL the fashionable thing to do. 

We do have a minor disagreement about Scott Bessent.  I don't disagree with your analysis that he can be viewed as a traitor.  As can RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard.  In my mind, the latter two are simply whack jobs with no real principles.  RFK in particular is short on facts and long on conspiracies. 

I would not call Bessent a whack job.  I think Trump likes having him around because he makes things, including Trump, at least look dignified.  And for Trump it is like an acting job, anyway. Not leadership.  So having the Gay guy with glasses around gives Trump honor, and dignity.  I can't get in Trump's head.  That is a toxic place to be.  But I think that is probably how Trump views it.   

Certainly, Bessent makes someone like Rudy Ghouliani look tacky by comparison.  I mean, the hair!  And I realize I have no fashion sense compared to you, Sis.  So cut my some slack on saying Bessent is at least somewhat fashionable.  At least to someone like Trump, who likes glitter and gold.

So, in a sense, Trump still wants to be loved by THE GAYS, even as he attacks us.  Go figure.  Just another reason why he is dangerous.

 

Yes Dignified, and "stiff" as fuck.....  He is so rigid as if he has a permanent stick up his ass.  I say stick ONLY because I dont think he is as CRASS as to appear on camera with a vibrating butt plug IN....but ya never know...?    And those "pursed" lips when he speaks are so off-putting.   I only purse MY lips when giving out my famous "silky swirl" BJ's....

I dont think he is a whack job,  after all he is a GAY man that got accepted into a Trump administration.... clearly he is smart and shrewd,  but he is a repulsive "boot licker" to me..... And not in the good BDSM sense !  😉

[Suckrates]

21 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

 

@lookin mentioned a friend who keeps trying to convince these true and loyal MAGA folks that they are wrong.  She is an example of that in my life.  And why @lookin is right.  It make no sense to try to change their mind.  Our dumb cruel loyal dog is a much more extreme example.  As least my niece and I are smart enough to mostly avoid the topic. 

But she does want to be LOVED by the GAYS.  So go figure.

Again, I take this as an indicator of just how incredible the victory our community won is.  We changed hearts and minds all over the world.  So while the persecution is real, as you keep saying, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

True, but it is ALL just be taken away from us now by TRUMP and the cult.    And if THEY have their way, the GAYS, just like people of color WILL NOT EXIST.... and they are making every effort for that to happen.    Clearly you have a unique relationship with your niece,  however, if it were ME.... I wouldnt make the effort.... I cant accept POSEURS and people that pretend to accept us for some "self serving" reasons.....I rather you show me your hatred, and we part ways...  I would question her love.....does she REALLY love you or is that just her "public face".....OR do YOU simply want and need to believe that she loves you ?   I would argue that she cant love you and want you to be persecuted and hurt.....  Masks are a terrible thing.   But I suppose HERE is where you are a Better person than I ?    I dont believe that MAGAS have the propensity to accept, like or even love people that do not align with hate and grievance ?    I gave up on being Mother Teresa after Jan 6th......  I dont give chances to "those folk", so in that sense, I AM as bad as they are.    

[stevenkesslar]

27 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

True, but it is ALL just be taken away from us now by TRUMP and the cult.    And if THEY have their way, the GAYS, just like people of color WILL NOT EXIST.... and they are making every effort for that to happen.    Clearly you have a unique relationship with your niece,  however, if it were ME.... I wouldnt make the effort.... I cant accept POSEURS and people that pretend to accept us for some "self serving" reasons.....I rather you show me your hatred, and we part ways...  I would question her love.....does she REALLY love you or is that just her "public face".....   I would argue that she cant love you and want you to be persecuted and hurt.....  Masks are a terrible thing.   But I suppose HERE is where you are a Better person than I ?    I dont believe that MAGAS have the propensity to accept, like or even love people that do not align with hate and grievance ?    I gave up on being Mother Teresa after Jan 6th......  I dont give chances to "those folk", so in that sense, I AM as bad as they are.    

I really don't think there is any right or wrong on this.  It's a matter of temperament, values, tolerance.

I keep saying one of my best friends is tormented by this.  He has a lovely sister I have met several times who is full on MAGA.  And she is tormented, too.  She wants to love and be close to her Gay brother, and embrace Trump.  It's a slippery slope.  I think everyone does have to make their own decisions about what they can do, and what works right for them.

I spent a few years as a volunteer leading outreach teams going door to door in swing districts of the Bay Area trying to persuade people to support same sex marriage.  As I have said repeatedly, I look back at that as the most satisfying campaign of my life. The idea at the time was that we'd win this at the ballot box.  Some of THE GAYS think it was a legal victory, that ultimately went to SCOTUS.  That is true.  But members of SCOTUS have literally said that they followed the polls and the public.  Had we not spent decades changing hearts and minds, the legal answer could have and probably would have been NO.  And I do think someone like Clarence Thomas would roll it back, if he could. But he can't. And part of the reason why is even Trump and my MAGA niece would not want to go there.  I don't think.  But maybe I am wrong.

One way or the other, my bias is that it is better to talk with them than not.  But that is completely based on pragmatism.  That talking with them is more likely to work than not.  It did on same sex marriage.

For me, at least, that is a fact.  Not a theory.  One of my friends and people I respect the most is a Straight woman who was one of a handful of people who cracked the code and figured out based on a lot of polling and focus groups how to persuade people in the center, especially religious people like my niece, to support same sex marriage.  She then literally was paid to go to Ireland and design a campaign to win same sex marriage at the ballot, which she did.  It was a huge fucking victory in one of the most Catholic countries in the world.  And it all came down to talking to and persuading these soft people in the middle.

And that all came down to opening hearts more than minds.  To paraphrase Julia Roberts, "I'm just a boy in love with a boy.  I just want to be able to fall in love and get married like you do."

Hell, even Tik Tok is good for something.

So, again, I am a pragmatist.  Bottom line:  it worked.  We won.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Suckrates]

Comedy Central premiered its NEW season last night on cable TV,  putting TRUMP in the spotlight....

But, it was NOT a favorable portrayal of Americas Dictator..... in fact South Park OBLITERATED Trump,  and not like the fake way Trump claimed he Obliterated Iran.....    South Park left NO prisoners....

Its a MUST see episode that touched on every Trump disaster,  including the Epstein files and the firing of Colbert on CBS..

Reports are today that Trump is SEETHING,  in fact he went from Orange to RED.....and is mulling over options for Retribution.   

Catch the South Park skewering of Trump before it "disappears"......    you WONT be disappointed. 

[stevenkesslar]

33 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

Comedy Central premiered its NEW season last night on cable TV,  putting TRUMP in the spotlight....

But, it was NOT a favorable portrayal of Americas Dictator..... in fact South Park OBLITERATED Trump,  and not like the fake way Trump claimed he Obliterated Iran.....    South Park left NO prisoners....

Its a MUST see episode that touched on every Trump disaster,  including the Epstein files and the firing of Colbert on CBS..

Reports are today that Trump is SEETHING,  in fact he went from Orange to RED.....and is mulling over options for Retribution.   

Catch the South Park skewering of Trump before it "disappears"......    you WONT be disappointed. 

 

Jon Stewart did the same on Monday night.   He did a sort of "Fuck y'all" tribute to Colbert, his friend and partner in crime.  He lacerated Trump and CGS.  So basically it was, "You ain't shutting me up, assholes."

The interesting thing about that episode is his guest was Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong, the billionaire owner of the LA Times.  Interesting guy.  He announced on air that he is taking the Times public.  Everyone in the audience applauded.  The staff of the Times were furious that he didn't at least tell them first.

So it is another sign of the times.  This is as old as Citizen Kane and the robber barons.  Here we go again.  It makes perfect sense that in times like this the institutions run scared.

We, the people, created this mess.  So ultimately is is up to we, the people, to get out of it.  Kudos to South Park and Stewart and Colbert for refusing to be silenced.

[Pete1111]

Trump will save America from the libs.  

 

Here's how.  😉😉😉

 

 

 

[stevenkesslar]

1 hour ago, Pete1111 said:

Trump will save America from the libs.  

 

Here's how.  😉😉😉

 

 

 

 

I feel saved!  And so does America.

I'm no South Park resident.  But here is my pro-Trump message.

 

[Pete1111]

56 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

 

I feel saved!  And so does America.

I'm no South Park resident.  But here is my pro-Trump message.

 

So, voters are saying Trump doesn't suck as much as he sucked last Trump cycle?  😮

That said, love how the metrics guy used all that dramatic body language to emphasize Trump = down, down, down!!!

...followed by the pundits adding colorful rhetoric, things are not good for Donny.

CNN seemed like they bent over and let a nice long, loud, smelly fart in Trump's face. 

Nice work!

 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT6rKJPdM/

 

 

 

[stevenkesslar]

20 hours ago, Suckrates said:

Comedy Central premiered its NEW season last night on cable TV,  putting TRUMP in the spotlight....

But, it was NOT a favorable portrayal of Americas Dictator..... in fact South Park OBLITERATED Trump,  and not like the fake way Trump claimed he Obliterated Iran.....    South Park left NO prisoners....

Its a MUST see episode that touched on every Trump disaster,  including the Epstein files and the firing of Colbert on CBS..

Reports are today that Trump is SEETHING,  in fact he went from Orange to RED.....and is mulling over options for Retribution.   

Catch the South Park skewering of Trump before it "disappears"......    you WONT be disappointed. 

 

Just more of the same basically saying what you said:

Trump's 'South Park' Problem

It’s the latest sign that Trump has lost control of the Epstein narrative and that the saga has broken Washington containment.

 

Here's the most interesting part.  This is not rocket science.  But neither was it completely obvious:

Quote

Its latest attack on the president puts it in the company of many other comedians or online influencers who have been teeing off on Trump over Epstein in recent weeks — prima facie evidence that Trump has misread the priorities of the young men who powered him back into office.

Quote

 

When Trump swept back into office, he did so in large part by convincing often non-political young voters to head to the polls and pull the lever for him. Last fall, he was ubiquitous on podcasts and streams that appeal to many of those voters — the kind where the subject matter had ostensibly nothing to do with politics. Trump seemed to understand from decades of experience in front of a camera how to talk about anything and everything. He was unafraid of long, unscripted media hits. Suddenly, though, he’s sounding just like the enemies he vanquished.

 

The key words I highlighted there are "young men".

It goes to this point we have been going back and forth about relating to "the cult" versus everyone else who voted for Trump. 

When I think of why young men voted for Trump, I think of things like reactions against high rent.  High mortgage rates. COVID lockdowns.  "Toxic masculinity" diatribes.  But it makes sense that a lot of it was just being turned off by politics in general.  Whatever their flaws, polls showed this clearly last Fall.  The more turned off you were by politics, the more likely you were to be for Trump.  So Trump was an anti-hero who flew into that cultural space and was happy to talk, talk, talk.  Even if it was all bullshit.   And now maybe they seem him as just that.  Another politician full of shit.

It also explains why Epstein has more traction than Medicaid cuts right now.  People turned off by politics don't read Politico or Real Clear Politics every day.  But they watch South Park and Joe Rogan.

I think we can add this group to voters who maybe did vote for Biden in 2020 and maybe would vote for a Democrat in 2028.

[Suckrates]

21 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

 

Just more of the same basically saying what you said:

Trump's 'South Park' Problem

It’s the latest sign that Trump has lost control of the Epstein narrative and that the saga has broken Washington containment.

 

Here's the most interesting part.  This is not rocket science.  But neither was it completely obvious:

 

The key words I highlighted there are "young men".

It goes to this point we have been going back and forth about relating to "the cult" versus everyone else who voted for Trump. 

When I think of why young men voted for Trump, I think of things like reactions against high rent.  High mortgage rates. COVID lockdowns.  "Toxic masculinity" diatribes.  But it makes sense that a lot of it was just being turned off by politics in general.  Whatever their flaws, polls showed this clearly last Fall.  The more turned off you were by politics, the more likely you were to be for Trump.  So Trump was an anti-hero who flew into that cultural space and was happy to talk, talk, talk.  Even if it was all bullshit.   And now maybe they seem him as just that.  Another politician full of shit.

It also explains why Epstein has more traction than Medicaid cuts right now.  People turned off by politics don't read Politico or Real Clear Politics every day.  But they watch South Park and Joe Rogan.

I think we can add this group to voters who maybe did vote for Biden in 2020 and maybe would vote for a Democrat in 2028.

Werent they paying attention to Trumps first Presidency, basically a failed term that spotlighted his inadequacies and incompetence and mania ?   Or was their assessment affected by 2 years of Covid lockdown ?   Trump was always Trump, however he IS much worse, more cruel and deranged in this 2nd term.....  Perhaps he has crossed lines now they cant accept ?   That would be a GOOD thing..... BUT, WILL IT LAST ?    Will he be able to regain control of the Epstein narrative and once again gaslight Americans that lean right to believe that this was just another left wing "witch hunt and persecution of him", where he is an innocent VICTIM, and can ONLY FIGHT for THEM if they support and believe him ?

If past is prologue, I think Trump might "pull it off" ?  

[stevenkesslar]

25 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

Werent they paying attention to Trumps first Presidency, basically a failed term that spotlighted his inadequacies and incompetence and mania ?   

 

I think one likely answer is no.  They were going through puberty.

Inside the Political Divide Roiling Gen Z

 

That chart sums it up nicely.  

From most things I read the other big dividing line is men v. women.  I think younger Gen Z females are probably still more likely to have voted for Trump than older Gen Z females.  But it is particularly a thing among Gen Z men.  And it is as much cultural as political, since they ain't into politics, anyway.  

I can easily see how this worked just based on how turned off by Biden younger Democrats in my family were.  To them he was like an old guy in a coffin who broke all his promises.  Trump is no spring chicken.  But he mined the podcasts and wrestling messages and Nelk Boys and influencers well.

So now the chickens are coming home to roost for bloated old liar rapist Trump.  Poor thing!

I think it is probably a fact that in a lot of swing states and House districts, the narrow margin Trump or Republicans won by depended in part on younger Gen Z voters who are disaffected from politics and do not reliably vote.  If that is true it means they will have a problem in the midterms if these people feel like Republicans are just the same old bullshit.

This is why I like Ruben Gallego, as one example of a Democrat who fits in to the cultural stream.  He comes off as very down to earth.  Instead of The Gospel Of Climate Change, he talks about young men who want to own homes with "big ass trucks" in the driveway.  Trump is teaching every purist climate changer right now that if you let me win I will absolutely destroy solar and wind initiatives that do lower costs and that are broadly popular. 

So some Democrat who is good at leading ought to be able to figure out how to build a pragmatic coalition out of that.

 

[RockyRoadTravel]

On 7/13/2025 at 2:53 PM, stevenkesslar said:

 She wants to love and be close to her Gay brother, and embrace Trump.  It's a slippery slope.  

A way to manage that slippery slope is being honest.  She (if she's being honest to herself and you about Trump's actions) would acknowledge she has no interest in recognizing us as a class of people facing systemic discrimination. Citizens who have inalienable rights as a class of people independent of what she or Trump's minions feel. Yet she wants her right to be kind and loving to "a gay" recognized.

With generosity I'd describe that as a charity model of emotion. Don't get me wrong charity is better than uncharitable, and it's also got a lot to do with the needs of the person doling out their generosity rather than the person in need. 

Victorian England gave us charity (is that really where MAGA wants to go, workhouses and no vaccines).  Representative democracy is how we won rights.  

[PeterRS]

Trump may feel some weight off his mind as he is presently visiting the homeland of his mother - Scotland. Years ago before he first became president, he decided he wanted to develop a links golf course in Scotland. He chose a prime site just north of the offshore oil capital of Aberdeen. There were protests galore, but Trump as usual lied all the way to the bank and got his way.

Trump's proposal had included a 450-room hotel, 950 holiday apartments, 36 golf villas and 500 new homes. Virtually none of that happened and the course has lost money for 11 straight years. Trump was taken to court for overvaluing the properties and found guilty. Typical. Now he is in Aberdeenshire opening a second course which he is naming in honour of his mother. 

A few locals living on a small parcel of land Trump wanted as part of his course held out. They refused to be bullied. As David Milne, one of the residets and an active anti-Trump campaigner, recently said - 

"Trump paints a story of how he wants things to be and how he expects other people to react to him. 

"It’s got no bearing on reality but that’s what he does and people seem to do what he says. 

"It’s a variation on the Goebbels theory of 'the longer and louder you tell a lie, the more it becomes true.'"

"He’s an overbearing bully, there’s not much more you can say."

"I’ve said from day one that people are only actually listening to what they want to hear, and as long as he promises them 'things are wonderful, things are going to be great on my watch', then that’s it, that’s all they’re interested in,’ he said.  

"He said he was going to fix the Ukraine war on day one!"

It appears a resident of a tiny hamlet in Scotand has the balls to stand up against Trump when vast millions in his own country are so cowed by his rhetoric they dare not oppose him.

[stevenkesslar]

On 7/13/2025 at 2:53 PM, stevenkesslar said:

She wants to love and be close to her Gay brother, and embrace Trump.  It's a slippery slope. 

 

1 hour ago, RockyRoadTravel said:

A way to manage that slippery slope is being honest.  She (if she's being honest to herself and you about Trump's actions) would acknowledge she has no interest in recognizing us as a class of people facing systemic discrimination. Citizens who have inalienable rights as a class of people independent of what she or Trump's minions feel. Yet she wants her right to be kind and loving to "a gay" recognized.

With generosity I'd describe that as a charity model of emotion. Don't get me wrong charity is better than uncharitable, and it's also got a lot to do with the needs of the person doling out their generosity rather than the person in need. 

Victorian England gave us charity (is that really where MAGA wants to go, workhouses and no vaccines).  Representative democracy is how we won rights.  

 

I completely agree.

Now that I said that, here is a much more complicated reponse.

In this instance I was talking about a close friend and his sister.  He is being honest in saying to her something like this: "We disagree about Trump.  And when I'm with you Trump is off the table.  It's just about you and me, pre-Trump, brother and sister."

So what upsets him is he flies to another state to visit her and while he is there Fox News is on all the time.  And there is MAGA stuff or Trump stuff lying around.  But it's not like they have "Kill Gays Because They Are Evil" signs up.  So it is a slippery slope.  The sister wants her Gay brother to know that being Gay (and an escort) is fine, and always has been. 

One wonders what would happen if Trump actually did start deporting Gay people.  But as you said, she wants to be able to have the same loving and kind relationship with her brother she used to have.  As if this whole "LGBTQ oppression" thing doesn't even really matter. 

Which of course says it doesn't really matter to her.  It would be as if Trump took her health care away, and my friend said, "Well, really, why should that matter anyway?  It's not really important, is it?"

So I'll add two other examples, both of which involve my MAGA niece.  Who I have a kind and loving relationship with.  We travel together regularly.  And the biggest issue with her is she is a restaurant snob who can make dinners unpleasant when her exacting needs around food and service are not met.  What a shocker!

I posted about the first.  She emailed me a very short one sentence suggestion that I might be interested in this series called Fellow Travelers.  I debated whether to let it pass.  But I sent her a relatively long email (what s shocker!) saying it was a great series I watched two years ago.  But it was relentlessly depressing.  Because it chronicled how the oppression of Gays in the 50's destroyed many people's lives.  Then I added that many Gay people feel the same thing is happening again today under Trump.  But just to appear fair and balanced, I mentioned that we also have our first Gay Treasury Secretary. 

She did not reply.  I could of course have simply said, "Oh, thanks for the suggestion."  She could have emailed back and said, "I didn't know that.  Thanks for sharing."

To me it's a perfect example of what you said.  She wants to feel like she is not some hateful person.  And, in fact, she is not.  But she's proven time and again she has zero interest in knowing anything about things like the same-sex marriage organizing fight and how we won.  But go get a drink in a Gay bar?  She'll recommend that.  After all, she's not one of those haters!  I would not choose friends like this.  But it's family.  As you said, a charitable impulse is better than uncharitable.

Second example.  I recently spoke with her sister, who is a liberal Democrat I have a lot in common with.  Her MAGA sister asked me a few years ago if I would pop for an AirBnB in California and invite both of them plus their families.  There's a complicated relationship of two sisters there.  But they have been close in the past.  And she clearly viewed me as a sort of bridge builder. 

So I invited them both but said you two have to take the lead in planning when and where this happens.  And for two years nothing has happened.  The liberal sister called me to say she wants to come out here this Winter with her hubby and kid and spend a week.  I said great, and asked her how she'd really feel about traveling with her sister.  And she basically said I don't want to be around someone who supports all these efforts I find repulsive.  Plus, she said she does get health care subsidies.  And she is worried in 2026 those will be taken away.  So, thanks but no thanks.  I told her my rules for family are different, but I completely respect her decision.

It is a slippery slope.

I'll end on a note of optimism.  I watched this great interview of Michael Lewis recently.  He wrote The Big Short and lots of other good books, including ones slamming Trump.  He made the point that this divisiveness can't last.  Because, to quote him, the political divisions don't "rhyme" with the rest of American culture and society. 

My Canadian sister-in-law might debate that, and say America is a country of gun owners and road rage.  So Trump fits right in.  But being an optimist like Lewis I agree with him.  And all these examples in families are proof of it, I think. 

Trump has gained power by playing divide and conquer.  But even the people like my MAGA niece and my friend's MAGA sister don't really feel good about it.  They don't apologize for being conservative.  Nor should they.  But they don't like the consequences.  So I think Lewis is right.  This can't last forever.

 

 

[PeterRS]

So Trump is rejoicing over his trade deal with Japan. "Maybe the largest deal in history!" Well not quite, oh orange-topped buffoon! Part of the deal apparently is that Japan will open its doors to American made cars and trucks.

Will someone tell the idiot that the number of vehicular units he will sell in Japan will be infinitesimal. Why? Well he just has to look back into history. When Presidents Reagan and Bush 1 were pushing Japan to devalue its currency in the 1980s, one of the deals was Japan opening its market to American made cars. I recall walking every weekday between the subway and my office passing a brand new Chrysler dealership. In two years I never saw one customer inside.

The answer is perfectly simple. While Japanese producers accepted from Day 1 that they would have to adapt their cars to the US left-hand drive roads, American car makers just assumed that the Japanese, who drive on the right, would happily accept their wrong-sided cars. Americans also failed to do much if any research. Most Japanese city roads are far narrower than American ones. It is vastly more difficult to atempt to drive an American car in Japan than it is a Japanese car in America.

So unless carrot-top persuades Detroit to spend a lot of money on making much smaller right-hand side cars and trucks, this part of the "largest" deal is a dead duck. 

[Suckrates]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

So Trump is rejoicing over his trade deal with Japan. "Maybe the largest deal in history!" Well not quite, oh orange-topped buffoon! Part of the deal apparently is that Japan will open its doors to American made cars and trucks.

Will someone tell the idiot that the number of vehicular units he will sell in Japan will be infinitesimal. Why? Well he just has to look back into history. When Presidents Reagan and Bush 1 were pushing Japan to devalue its currency in the 1980s, one of the deals was Japan opening its market to American made cars. I recall walking every weekday between the subway and my office passing a brand new Chrysler dealership. In two years I never saw one customer inside.

The answer is perfectly simple. While Japanese producers accepted from Day 1 that they would have to adapt their cars to the US left-hand drive roads, American car makers just assumed that the Japanese, who drive on the right, would happily accept their wrong-sided cars. Americans also failed to do much if any research. Most Japanese city roads are far narrower than American ones. It is vastly more difficult to atempt to drive an American car in Japan than it is a Japanese car in America.

So unless carrot-top persuades Detroit to spend a lot of money on making much smaller right-hand side cars and trucks, this part of the "largest" deal is a dead duck. 

 

It sounds "SA-DAY-SCIOUS"  🤣

[RockyRoadTravel]

16 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

 

 

I completely agree.

To me it's a perfect example of what you said.  She wants to feel like she is not some hateful person.  And, in fact, she is not.  But she's proven time and again she has zero interest in knowing anything about things like the same-sex marriage organizing fight and how we won.  But go get a drink in a Gay bar?  She'll recommend that.  After all, she's not one of those haters! 

 

 

You show a real commitment to family relationships it sounds like. Kudos to you and very liberal of you.  I'm going to bang on about this a bit more because I'm trying to make some sense within the constant chaos. The difference between hate and fear.

I think talking about hate implicates a person's values, while fear is more about Trump's tactic. I do believe that Trump is promoting hatred. However, I also believe that few people who support him would consider themselves as hateful. By calling Trump hateful, I'd be calling the values of the person I'm talking to as hateful.  More useful I think is Trump's tactic of spreading fear. I don't think focusing on Trump's use of fear as a weapon implicates a person's values in the same way. 

Chaos and fear are Trump's oxygen and carbon. However, MAGA or non-MAGA does an average citizen want to live in a country where we're living in chaos and fear? Chaos and fear should be pointed out in everyone of his actions. While I believe that hate is a by-product of his chaos and fear, I don't see how it's the place to start or focus an argument.

Does your sister want chaos and fear?  Could she hear that easier than about Trump's promotion of hatred?  We do need to continue to argue and debate and attempt to cross this divide that, in my opinion, Trump and his minions are deliberately creating. 

While 55% of Americans might see Trump's actions as hateful, I'd bet 70% would see him as promoting fear and chaos. 

[stevenkesslar]

1 hour ago, RockyRoadTravel said:

While 55% of Americans might see Trump's actions as hateful, I'd bet 70% would see him as promoting fear and chaos. 

That sounds about right.

Trump's disapproval ratings are spiking.  And now a large majority are saying his immigration crackdown has gone too far. And polls are starting to show Americans are more pro-immigration than ever.  So all that suggests they don't want to live in an America filled with chaos, and hate, and fear, where any "immigrant" is looked down on and maybe deported.

"The border" was clearly a reason Trump won, in his own words and the words of his top campaign staff.  But the fact that Biden was seen as going too far one way doesn't mean people voted for hate and fear.

The ubiquitous line I have heard again and again is that people who voted for Trump say they voted for his policies.  Some will add they know he is an asshole.  I mostly buy that.  

And then it gets more complicated when you point out that the policies are cruel.  So if you say you like Trump's policies, are you saying you like cruel policies?  Basically, you voted for cruelty?  Is that what you are saying?  More cruelty?

Every Republican or Trump voter I know would of course deny that these policies are cruel.  It makes sense that they have to rationalize that away.  We don't really mean to hurt those nice Gay people.  We don't really mean to make people hungry, or take away rural hospital care. 

On a personal level, going back to the examples I used, my friend's sister does not want fear or hate.  The opposite.  She wants to be close to her brother in the way she used to be.  Before Trump.  My MAGA niece wants to be closer to her liberal sister, who may lose health care subsidies and whose health insurance premiums will rise thanks to the Big Ugly Cruel Bill.  I don't blame my liberal niece for saying I don't really need to be around my sister.  That has to do with more than politics.  But part of the feeling is my niece clearly sees her sister as an affluent Republican snob.  But she would never say her sister is hateful.

It is complicated. 

I will end again with what I said about Michael Lewis's optimism.  All this fear and hate and chaos does not "rhyme".  If I look at my family or my friend's family, it is not the way people want to be.  But I agree with you that Trump is continuously injecting hate and fear and chaos into the body politic.  So I don't blame Democrats for saying this is just fucked up.  And anybody who supports this ain't necessarily a friend of mine.  Even if they are a family member.

[Pete1111]

4 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

That sounds about right.

Trump's disapproval ratings are spiking.  And now a large majority are saying his immigration crackdown has gone too far. And polls are starting to show Americans are more pro-immigration than ever.  So all that suggests they don't want to live in an America filled with chaos, and hate, and fear, where any "immigrant" is looked down on and maybe deported.

"The border" was clearly a reason Trump won, in his own words and the words of his top campaign staff.  But the fact that Biden was seen as going too far one way doesn't mean people voted for hate and fear.

The ubiquitous line I have heard again and again is that people who voted for Trump say they voted for his policies.  Some will add they know he is an asshole.  I mostly buy that.  

And then it gets more complicated when you point out that the policies are cruel.  So if you say you like Trump's policies, are you saying you like cruel policies?  Basically, you voted for cruelty?  Is that what you are saying?  More cruelty?

Every Republican or Trump voter I know would of course deny that these policies are cruel.  It makes sense that they have to rationalize that away.  We don't really mean to hurt those nice Gay people.  We don't really mean to make people hungry, or take away rural hospital care. 

On a personal level, going back to the examples I used, my friend's sister does not want fear or hate.  The opposite.  She wants to be close to her brother in the way she used to be.  Before Trump.  My MAGA niece wants to be closer to her liberal sister, who may lose health care subsidies and whose health insurance premiums will rise thanks to the Big Ugly Cruel Bill.  I don't blame my liberal niece for saying I don't really need to be around my sister.  That has to do with more than politics.  But part of the feeling is my niece clearly sees her sister as an affluent Republican snob.  But she would never say her sister is hateful.

It is complicated. 

I will end again with what I said about Michael Lewis's optimism.  All this fear and hate and chaos does not "rhyme".  If I look at my family or my friend's family, it is not the way people want to be.  But I agree with you that Trump is continuously injecting hate and fear and chaos into the body politic.  So I don't blame Democrats for saying this is just fucked up.  And anybody who supports this ain't necessarily a friend of mine.  Even if they are a family member.

Some Repubs don't deny ICE cruelty and they defend being ok with it by stating "immigrants shouldn't have broken the law."

That's such a narrow, fucked up, troublesome, and frequently incorrect view. 

I feel your niece.  I have one MAGA brother out of 4.  I seriously doubt that I will ever visit his home again.

Another brother doesn't like Trump, but when I complain about the new anti-gay laws where he lives, that it's the last place I'd move to, he responded "it's a Democracy, the laws are what the people want."  Wow, that said a lot.  I responded he's a good fit for living there. 

The house I lived in during college is having a reunion next month.  From social media posts I see a lot of their true colors.   I am not traveling back to fly over country to rub shoulders with those college boys.  There was brotherly love back then, but I've moved on from what that was and what it wasn't.

So yeah, I feel your niece.

I probably won't make time to visit friends or relatives that agree with oppression and my right to exist.

 

[Suckrates]

7 hours ago, Pete1111 said:

Some Repubs don't deny ICE cruelty and they defend being ok with it by stating "immigrants shouldn't have broken the law."

That's such a narrow, fucked up, troublesome, and frequently incorrect view. 

I feel your niece.  I have one MAGA brother out of 4.  I seriously doubt that I will ever visit his home again.

Another brother doesn't like Trump, but when I complain about the new anti-gay laws where he lives, that it's the last place I'd move to, he responded "it's a Democracy, the laws are what the people want."  Wow, that said a lot.  I responded he's a good fit for living there. 

The house I lived in during college is having a reunion next month.  From social media posts I see a lot of their true colors.   I am not traveling back to fly over country to rub shoulders with those college boys.  There was brotherly love back then, but I've moved on from what that was and what it wasn't.

So yeah, I feel your niece.

I probably won't make time to visit friends or relatives that agree with oppression and my right to exist.

 

I am in TOTAL agreement with your attitude, as I have written many times, I have CUT all those MAGA and right leaning people out of my life,  and wont even give them a chance to hear what they have to say.   I KNOW what they have to say.  Once it became so difficult to even have a civil conversation with them,  I learned to "not even WANT to bother"....   There is no more chatting with right wing friends or family.   They are always on a mission to defend Trump and force his actions down your throat.  They are always angry at the left, and argumentative, and deny any FACTS you attempt to discuss.   SO,  FUCK THEM, life goes on without them,  and I spend less money on anxiety meds when I dont have to argue with FOOLS.....that usually take NO responsibility for the countrys current state of affairs.   They see nothing wrong because Trump is GREAT !