Trump Trump Trump Trump Trump

[stevenkesslar]

19 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

But her hair and makeup are always perfect, so in her heart of hearts, she wants to be LOVED by the GAYS. 

You got two replies.  So I am taking two, as well.

It's funny.  You literally just described an email exchange I had with my MAGA niece yesterday.  And what you said is literally true.  Hee hair is always perfect.  And she does genuinely love her Gay uncle.  But she is hands down the most MAGA relative I have.  The other ones are basically people who would rather have Romney, but will accept Trump.  She would rather have Trump.  She thinks these people like Romney are useless RINOs. 

Yet, at the same time, she wants to feel like she's a moderate who can accept that whole GAY THING.  So part of her MO is that she'll suggest we go to a Gay bar or do something Gay so she can check the box and say she's not one of those haters.  Whatever her motivation, which is at core that she loves her uncle, it is all fine with me.  I would rather have her try than just be a hater.

So she sent me an email yesterday saying I should check out this series called Fellow Travelers.  I debated how to respond.  But I decided I will go there.  So I informed her that I watched the whole series in 2023.  It was outstanding, but also relentlessly depressing.  And it is interesting that you mention THAT series. Because it is all about how THE GAYS were persecuted and crushed in the 1950's.  And many Gay men feel the exact same thing is happening under Trump.  including close friends of mine, who are tormented by the fact that their siblings love their Gay brother, but support Trump.  She knows I don't have that issue with my family, because she is one of THEM.

I'm sure she had no clue that she was exposing a certain type of ignorance, like Trump does when he praises the Black leader of an English speaking country for speaking English well.  I'm sure my response annoyed her.  I could have left it at saying it is just more fun to watch Jonathan Bailey dance and be pretty in Wicked than it is to watch him be persecuted and die of AIDS in Fellow Travelers.  I gave her a small piece of information that she does not want to know, probably.  And will almost certainly ignore.

@lookin mentioned a friend who keeps trying to convince these true and loyal MAGA folks that they are wrong.  She is an example of that in my life.  And why @lookin is right.  It make no sense to try to change their mind.  Our dumb cruel loyal dog is a much more extreme example.  As least my niece and I are smart enough to mostly avoid the topic. 

But she does want to be LOVED by the GAYS.  So go figure.

Again, I take this as an indicator of just how incredible the victory our community won is.  We changed hearts and minds all over the world.  So while the persecution is real, as you keep saying, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

[Suckrates]

17 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

Doesn't everyone? 

I mean, even under Trump with MAGA folk, it is STILL the fashionable thing to do. 

We do have a minor disagreement about Scott Bessent.  I don't disagree with your analysis that he can be viewed as a traitor.  As can RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard.  In my mind, the latter two are simply whack jobs with no real principles.  RFK in particular is short on facts and long on conspiracies. 

I would not call Bessent a whack job.  I think Trump likes having him around because he makes things, including Trump, at least look dignified.  And for Trump it is like an acting job, anyway. Not leadership.  So having the Gay guy with glasses around gives Trump honor, and dignity.  I can't get in Trump's head.  That is a toxic place to be.  But I think that is probably how Trump views it.   

Certainly, Bessent makes someone like Rudy Ghouliani look tacky by comparison.  I mean, the hair!  And I realize I have no fashion sense compared to you, Sis.  So cut my some slack on saying Bessent is at least somewhat fashionable.  At least to someone like Trump, who likes glitter and gold.

So, in a sense, Trump still wants to be loved by THE GAYS, even as he attacks us.  Go figure.  Just another reason why he is dangerous.

 

Yes Dignified, and "stiff" as fuck.....  He is so rigid as if he has a permanent stick up his ass.  I say stick ONLY because I dont think he is as CRASS as to appear on camera with a vibrating butt plug IN....but ya never know...?    And those "pursed" lips when he speaks are so off-putting.   I only purse MY lips when giving out my famous "silky swirl" BJ's....

I dont think he is a whack job,  after all he is a GAY man that got accepted into a Trump administration.... clearly he is smart and shrewd,  but he is a repulsive "boot licker" to me..... And not in the good BDSM sense !  😉

[Suckrates]

21 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

 

@lookin mentioned a friend who keeps trying to convince these true and loyal MAGA folks that they are wrong.  She is an example of that in my life.  And why @lookin is right.  It make no sense to try to change their mind.  Our dumb cruel loyal dog is a much more extreme example.  As least my niece and I are smart enough to mostly avoid the topic. 

But she does want to be LOVED by the GAYS.  So go figure.

Again, I take this as an indicator of just how incredible the victory our community won is.  We changed hearts and minds all over the world.  So while the persecution is real, as you keep saying, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

True, but it is ALL just be taken away from us now by TRUMP and the cult.    And if THEY have their way, the GAYS, just like people of color WILL NOT EXIST.... and they are making every effort for that to happen.    Clearly you have a unique relationship with your niece,  however, if it were ME.... I wouldnt make the effort.... I cant accept POSEURS and people that pretend to accept us for some "self serving" reasons.....I rather you show me your hatred, and we part ways...  I would question her love.....does she REALLY love you or is that just her "public face".....OR do YOU simply want and need to believe that she loves you ?   I would argue that she cant love you and want you to be persecuted and hurt.....  Masks are a terrible thing.   But I suppose HERE is where you are a Better person than I ?    I dont believe that MAGAS have the propensity to accept, like or even love people that do not align with hate and grievance ?    I gave up on being Mother Teresa after Jan 6th......  I dont give chances to "those folk", so in that sense, I AM as bad as they are.    

[stevenkesslar]

27 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

True, but it is ALL just be taken away from us now by TRUMP and the cult.    And if THEY have their way, the GAYS, just like people of color WILL NOT EXIST.... and they are making every effort for that to happen.    Clearly you have a unique relationship with your niece,  however, if it were ME.... I wouldnt make the effort.... I cant accept POSEURS and people that pretend to accept us for some "self serving" reasons.....I rather you show me your hatred, and we part ways...  I would question her love.....does she REALLY love you or is that just her "public face".....   I would argue that she cant love you and want you to be persecuted and hurt.....  Masks are a terrible thing.   But I suppose HERE is where you are a Better person than I ?    I dont believe that MAGAS have the propensity to accept, like or even love people that do not align with hate and grievance ?    I gave up on being Mother Teresa after Jan 6th......  I dont give chances to "those folk", so in that sense, I AM as bad as they are.    

I really don't think there is any right or wrong on this.  It's a matter of temperament, values, tolerance.

I keep saying one of my best friends is tormented by this.  He has a lovely sister I have met several times who is full on MAGA.  And she is tormented, too.  She wants to love and be close to her Gay brother, and embrace Trump.  It's a slippery slope.  I think everyone does have to make their own decisions about what they can do, and what works right for them.

I spent a few years as a volunteer leading outreach teams going door to door in swing districts of the Bay Area trying to persuade people to support same sex marriage.  As I have said repeatedly, I look back at that as the most satisfying campaign of my life. The idea at the time was that we'd win this at the ballot box.  Some of THE GAYS think it was a legal victory, that ultimately went to SCOTUS.  That is true.  But members of SCOTUS have literally said that they followed the polls and the public.  Had we not spent decades changing hearts and minds, the legal answer could have and probably would have been NO.  And I do think someone like Clarence Thomas would roll it back, if he could. But he can't. And part of the reason why is even Trump and my MAGA niece would not want to go there.  I don't think.  But maybe I am wrong.

One way or the other, my bias is that it is better to talk with them than not.  But that is completely based on pragmatism.  That talking with them is more likely to work than not.  It did on same sex marriage.

For me, at least, that is a fact.  Not a theory.  One of my friends and people I respect the most is a Straight woman who was one of a handful of people who cracked the code and figured out based on a lot of polling and focus groups how to persuade people in the center, especially religious people like my niece, to support same sex marriage.  She then literally was paid to go to Ireland and design a campaign to win same sex marriage at the ballot, which she did.  It was a huge fucking victory in one of the most Catholic countries in the world.  And it all came down to talking to and persuading these soft people in the middle.

And that all came down to opening hearts more than minds.  To paraphrase Julia Roberts, "I'm just a boy in love with a boy.  I just want to be able to fall in love and get married like you do."

Hell, even Tik Tok is good for something.

So, again, I am a pragmatist.  Bottom line:  it worked.  We won.  Wash, rinse, repeat.