The Epstein list... When will it be released?

[Suckrates]

1 hour ago, stevenkesslar said:

So it's on Democrats, next time they get a shot,  to see if they can deliver the kind of change people actually want.  At least something like 51 % of them in at least enough states to get a majority of US Senators.

Aw Hon, Bless your Heart,  you always end with THE BURNING QUESTION, that I think we know the answer to......  for the Dems to deliver CHANGE, they themselves have to CHANGE, and I am not sure Dems have Change in them ?    They seem to want to suppress rising new Dem Voices and resort to their OLD playbook.   They dont seem to have New ideas,  and they dont seem to know how to reach the people demanding the change.....  So how can they deliver it ?   They have 3 1/2 years and the clock is ticking, while Trump is "getting Really, really good at being really, really Bad" !     But I do recognize and appreciate your Optimism,  while I dont SHARE it regarding the Dems.   As time goes on, I become less and less enamored with Dems, and believe the party itself needs the CHANGE before it can offer it to Americans.  

[Goober]

34 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

 for the Dems to deliver CHANGE, they themselves have to CHANGE, and I am not sure Dems have Change in them ?    

It's a bit reassuring that some MAGAts are realizing they've been conned. But even if they turn away from trumpism, it doesn't mean they're going to vote Democratic. Democratic politicians don't seem to listen very well to the wants of their constituents, rather they tell their constituents what they should want. That some high-level (or maybe just high) Dems are still suggesting that Biden could have won in 2024 is concerning to me...so out of touch with reality.

[PeterRS]

On 7/11/2025 at 9:16 PM, Goober said:

I suppose it's possible he committed suicide, but it doesn't seem very probable.

I suspect we will never know. When committed to jail, he was in a cell for two people. On the night of his death, his cellmate had been moved out for some inexplicable reason. Guards had been instructed to check Epstein's cell every 30 minutes. That was not done at all on the night he died. For 8 hours no guard checked his cell. Allegedly the two guards fell asleep and then forged documents. The two cameras in front of Epstein's cell both malfunctioned that night. Epstein's body was discovered at around 6.30 am. Again breaking protocol, no photo was taken of the body or the possibiity that it might be a crime scene.

At 1.8m tall and weighing 85 kgs, the likelihood that Epstein could successfully commit suicide tied to the lower part of the bunk using part of a sheet has always been the subject of controversy. There were longer and stronger materials available in that cell. 

Epstein's was the first suicide in the Manhattan Correctional Centre since 1998. After a four-hour autopsy, the Medical Examiner ruled suicide by hanging as the cause of death. Yet Epstein's lawyers sent a pathologist to attend the autopsy. He did not agree with the findings, citing the breakage of some bones in the neck. Although this can sometimes happen in suicide, it is assumed far more likely to be a result of homicide by strangulation.

After the death was confirmed, Trump made a speech basically blaming the Clintons and that he wanted a full investigation. Attorney General William Barr said he was "appalled" by Epstein's death while in custody. Yet the guards who totally failed in their duty were given a deferred prosecution deal. They should have gone to jail. They did not. Epstein's lawyers and his brother Mark reject the possiblity of suicide. When his lawyers met him on the day of his death, he was still relatively upbeat. He still had a bail appeal hearing coming up and then perhaps a lengthy delay prior to a trial. There was no reason for him to take his own life at that particular time in the justice process.

Investigations were not just confined to New York. In France, one of Epstein's associates Jean-Luc Brunuel was arrested and charged with the rape of minors. He too allegedly committed suicide under circumstances that remain unclear.

My money is on murder!

[Moses]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

My money is on murder

It is too complicated for to be true. There are a lot of untraceable poisons, which can't be detected in one hour after death. Death will looks like heart attack or stroke after such poisons. 

Also 2-components poisons are easy to use: each component is harmless and poisoning starts only when components have chemical reaction in blood. Example: one component in food, second one on the cell door. Poison will decompose in 30 minutes because it is unstable. 

So, if hanging was murder, then it was intended to be warning for someone else. Only then using of such complicated method has sense.

[stevenkesslar]

5 hours ago, Suckrates said:

As time goes on, I become less and less enamored with Dems, and believe the party itself needs the CHANGE before it can offer it to Americans.  

No shit!

And I agree that I don't know they have it in them.

I know I may sound like I am all AMLO, all the time.  But implicit in what I am saying is that shit has to change in a really big way.  Like AMLO literally created a new political party.  Which now basically has a lock on power that the global elites worry is .............. wait for it .................... too authoritarian.  But the Mexican working class sure love it.

Part of my optimism, which my Dad and siblings share but not most of my nieces and nephews don't, is that leaders can actually make a difference.  There was of course Obama and "hope and change."  And now Mandani is a local version of the same thing.  Trump is a version of the same thing for Republicans.  Generally, they love him.  Their problem is Republicans account for nowhere near 50 % of the vote.  Nor do Democrats, for that matter. 

My larger point is that Republicans were kind of fucked until Trump came along.  McCain lost.  Romney lost.  So it makes sense that they can't live without him, so they live with him.  Did it really have to be this way?  That's for historians to fight over.  For now we just have to live through it.  Assuming we can, and do.

I think it is the same with Democrats.  Some leader has to come along to change the party. 

Clinton did that, for both better and worse, in 1992. I'm not sure I would say the same with Obama.  In 2000, the Democratic President was from Arkansas and the Senate Democratic Leader was from South Dakota.  That could not happen today.  The Democratic Congressional leaders are from places like New York and San Francisco.  Obama rose to power in Chicago.  That kind of sums up the problem, I think.  Clinton's party still appealed to the working class.  Including in states that we now think of as ruby red.

Ruy Teixeira's big thing is the working class.  He and John Judis, who know the area well because they forecast it a generation ago with The Emerging Democratic Majority, view the problem at core as being that Democrats lost touch with the working class.  So the 30,000 foot level solution is to elevate leaders who will fight for the working class.  It is working in Mexico.

The thing that scares me the most is the rise of billionaires and autocrats.  And that is where both parties are just as much to blame.  Working class people got a few crumbs with "no tax for tips".  But basically Trump's party is breaking the budget to give billionaires whatever the hell they want. 

When Democrats had power they could not agree to raise taxes on these people one penny, even though the idea is wildly popular, to fund things that help the working class.  That is in part because lots of Democrats either are very rich, or they are afraid of pissing off their rich donors.  Who they constantly suck at the tit of.  And every attempt to make Democrats not dependent on sucking the tits of the rich has failed.  So I get why all my nieces and nephews are cynical.  Or, they are the rich ones who like Trump and his tax cuts.

What is certain is that by empowering the autocrats and cutting their taxes and fucking the working class and poor on health care cuts and basic things like food,  Republicans are NOT giving Americans the change they want.  But whether Democrats will ever be able to do it is a very good question. 

A lot of young people feel that when the Democrats rejected Bernie, that was game over.  The rich now control both parties.  I don't blame them for feeling that way.