The war in Iran

[Suckrates]

8 minutes ago, vinapu said:

the same good which comes of every war , i.e. overpopulation will be reduced for a while.

And Americans will still remain hungry, sick and unemployed as they fund a Democracy movement for the Iranians....

Gee, isnt America GREAT !     GOD BLESS DONALD J TRUMP .........

[Moses]

2 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

This war undercuts basic principles America says it stands for.

The list of American interventions shows, what "America says" and "America does" are two quite opposite things. And shows what America has no principles: look on the table above comparing Miloshevic and Syngman Rhee.

[stevenkesslar]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

the same good which comes of every war , i.e. overpopulation will be reduced for a while.

Right now, seems like the world has an overpopulation of authoritarians, theocrats, and American wannabe Kings.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if there were a few less of them.  🫢

[stevenkesslar]

4 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

I also hope some good will come out of it. 

 

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

the same good which comes of every war , i.e. overpopulation will be reduced for a while.

 

The Financial Times came up with a nice headline and definition of "some good"  for me.

The cynical opportunities of ‘Epic Fury’

 

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when considering this administration, the best bet is the most cynical.

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Trump cares not a jot about democracy. A collapse into chaos is possible. But more likely still is that new “strongmen” emerge with roots in the Revolutionary Guards. Trump then may seek a deal: we will leave you in power if you stop threatening your neighbours and let us share in the oil. Iran has 9 per cent of global oil reserves but only 5 per cent of oil output: the upside is clear.

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Will there be takers among Iran’s new rulers, after this brutal lesson in US (and Israeli) power? I would bet there will. If such a deal is reached, the Gulf could return to stability, indeed far more stability than in the decades since the Iranian revolution.

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Whether Trump planned it or not, he might have created the conditions for a deal with those who control Iran’s levers of power. Such a deal would be acceptable to its neighbours, who do not want a democratic Iran. US power would have been demonstrated. Europe and China would have been discomforted. Iran’s rulers (and the Trump family) would be richer. What would be not to like about all of this, at least for Trump?

 

To set the bar very low, that sounds better to me than World War III.  

To set the bar a bit higher, it defangs Iran for a while without changing anything fundamental about a bad situation for most Iranians.   But it doesn't lead to a bloodbath like when the US took out leaders in Iraq and Libya.

This is what other Trump alumni like Anthony Scaramucci have been speculating about already.  When it comes to Trump, cynicism is always best. 

In effect, Trump is saying to Venezuela, and possibly Iran:  FUCK DEMOCRACY.  You can be an authoritarian.  As long as you are my authoritarian.  Otherwise you die. 

Eat your heart out, Vlad.  When your buddy Patriot Pete runs a very powerful military, and you have the Genocide Jew as your partner in crime, you can get lots of shit done.  Whether it's good shit or not is a different question.

The question already on  the table is:  does America want to be the world's bully? 

@Moses likes to bring up Hiroshima.  My Dad fought in WWII, and was in the Navy near Japan.  He spent the rest of his life being proud that America was the world's good cop.  In his eyes.  That's a different thing than being the world's bully.  Although I'm sure these days most MAGA people will argue it's the same thing.

My eyes are on Gavin Newsom.  He has never lost an election, so far.  I think he is a good politician in that he can see where the wind is blowing.  And he has a coherent set of liberal principles.  As one example I care about, he was ahead of the curve on same sex marriage.  Now he is ranting about how this is a war America did not want.  And about how further military support to Israel, which practices genocide, is now in question in his mind.  That will be a big debate in the Democratic Party.  And a good one.

The thing I am most hoping for is that America rejects this course.  In others words, Americans don't want to be the world's bully.  That will be a huge internal fight.   Assuming we continue to be a democracy that has internal fights.