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Curious what happened to the Russian invasion thread?

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2 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

China is a legitimate superpower, Russia is not.

While I agree Russia in not on a manufacturing par with the US or China, it is a superpower in areas other than its nuclear arsenal.

It has the world's largest proven gas reserves, the second-largest coal reserves, the eighth-largest oil reserves, and the largest oil shale reserves in Europe. Russia is also the world's leading natural gas exporter and second largest natural gas producer.

Russia is the world's top exporter of wheat. Not only is Russia the world's third-largest producer of gold, but it also has the fifth largest gold reserves. It's also a major producer of nickel, palladium, platinum, magnesium.

And it was Russia that admitted China into the nuclear club, sharing its atomic secrets following the Korean war, something Putin casually reminds Xi Jinping of from time to time.

So well its excursion in Ukraine doesn't bode well for the bear, it will be falling back on some valuable assets.

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11 hours ago, reader said:

Given that there are only three superpowers, and two of them are Russia and China, the expectation for the third defaults to the US. Not everyone may always agree with its actions,  but most are damn glad that it has skin in the game.

I am used to patriotic tribalism by Americans at Daddy's, but it is quite disappointing to find out that we cannot escape from it not even here.

My stand is quite simple. Fuck the three superpowers. 

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Britian overextended itself in the 1800's spending all it's resources on war until by 1914 (the last time Europe was in war lust like the present) it was a lesser power. The USSR overextended itself in the later 1900's trying to control too many countries, especially in Europe. Now it's a lesser power (except for those missiles). The US for a while has been spending half it's discretionary budget on our military to control the world. But as a capitalist country most of that money is wasted. We pay $1000 for toilet seats and $800 for hammers and one of our biggest national expenditures is the F-35 which would be worthless against China. After massive spending our military corporations still cannot figure out a working supersonic missile. Our corporate military budget means Americans have to have less income security and healthcare than other similar countries for less effect. We've borrowed to overextend ourselves for many years and we're rapidly diminishing as a power just as Britian and Russia did. It's China's century and our wars in the middle east and now wars between western countries just hastens China's hegemony.

And don't think "our" corporations or banks still rule the world. Those corporations are increasingly multinational by the day. (If anything Google and Microsoft are more Indian and many corporations are minority American-owned -and-run now.) The effort we've been making to de-couple from Chinese technology has also been expensive and disrupting the past few years and is showing mixed results at best. However awful the coming Chinese domination may be, the US domination of the world is ending very quickly. 

I hope the crazy news leaks today that the US has biochemical labs in Ukraine and that it has hired 500 ISIS/al Queda fighters to help fight in Ukraine are not true. If either is true this war is really spiraling out of control (as they usually do). 

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1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

My stand is quite simple. Fuck the three superpowers. 

Your disciplined, Trump-like approach to international relations is surely the way to go.

43 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

 I hope the crazy news leaks today that the US has biochemical labs in Ukraine and that it has hired 500 ISIS/al Queda fighters to help fight in Ukraine are not true. If either is true this war is really spiraling out of control (as they usually do). 

 I marvel at your consistently positive outlook to life. Keep spreading the sunshine, my friend.

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perfect example today of the absence of journalism. 

the Under Sectretary of State in Congressional testimony yesterday said Ukraine has bio weapons labs they are scared will fall to Russians. Biden's press secretary today says that information was put out by Russia and China so we should be on alert for a bio-weapons attack from Russia. Our pro-war media won't touch the odd story. wtf? Sadaam's bio weapons of mass destruction argument?

update: our government has finally published the official spin that every media outlet is to run. Not true obviously from what the Asst Sec of State testified yesterday but only spin matters:

https://news.yahoo.com/white-house-warns-russia-may-231621400.html

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

 

The US, as usual is part of the current problem - had the US fully engaged w Russia post Soviet collapse and assisted in democratic reforms, there would most likely be no Putin now.  ....  Huge missed opportunity to integrate democratic Russia and avoid more European war.

I remember an article of former president Nixon in early 90-ties in either Time or Newsweek suggesting exactly such engagement.

 

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22 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

 

The US, as usual is part of the current problem - had the US fully engaged w Russia post Soviet collapse and assisted in democratic reforms, there would most likely be no Putin now.  As Putin consolidated his authoritarian rule, the US was in meltdown from 9/11 and pursuing forever wars in the Middle East.  Huge missed opportunity to integrate democratic Russia and avoid more European war. Thank you George W.

 

Putin was the democratic supporter the US helped make sure won in Russia. We gave a ton of money to help him and Yeltsin win the democratic election against the communists and had the CIA etc all working to get him in.  He expected Russia would be a US ally. Instead because of middle east politics we changed to a policy of destroying Russia. There's consensus that was a stupid US move. 

In similiar irony, Zelensky was the pro-Russian candidate who won overwhelmingly in Ukraine's election. He promised elimination of corruption and alliance with Russia. Corruption has gotten much worse under him and Russian friendship is dead. He came under control of one huge oligarch. 

Zelensky as pro- Russian comedian and candidate: 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, tassojunior said:

 In similiar irony, Zelensky was the pro-Russian candidate who won overwhelmingly in Ukraine's election. He promised elimination of corruption and alliance with Russia. Corruption has gotten much worse under him and Russian friendship is dead. He came under control of one huge oligarch.

You know, this may just earn you the upgrade that you've been pining for on your next Aeroflot flight to Moscow. In fact your Hero Putin may invite you to the Kremlin to have tea. And if you write some more stuff that makes the Ukraine look bad, maybe he'll give you an genuine MAGA cap, autographed of course by The Donald himself.

 

 

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3 hours ago, reader said:

You know, this may just earn you the upgrade that you've been pining for on your next Aeroflot flight to Moscow. In fact your Hero Putin may invite you to the Kremlin to have tea. And if you write some more stuff that makes the Ukraine look bad, maybe he'll give you an genuine MAGA cap, autographed of course by The Donald himself.

 

 

  1. Finding it ironic that Putin was America's candidate to lead Russia and that Zelensky was Russia's choice to lead Ukraine has nothing to do with taking sides. 
  2. Neither does finding irony in Condolezza Rice (with a straight face and serious) saying a country invading another country is a war crime. Nor war criminal Hillary talking war crimes with the blood of around a million (not white) people on her hands with Biden right behind.

The pro-war media is ridiculous in what it can get away with in the lead-up to all our wars it pushes. We always go into a pro-war hysteria in the US at the beginning. This isn't a video game or a movie; a lot of real people are really dying on both sides. And a rapidly escalating war between nuclear countries has been unimaginable from 1962 to today. Hot war between the US and Russia?--OMG. Inflaming passions just kills more people.

It's hard to be objective but it's necessary to save lives. And it's not completely illegal yet. (But the censoring of opposing views is getting there fast). 

 

 

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tassojunior,  you are really working hard for that upgrade on Aerolfot to Moscow reader mentioned.

But in Stalinist Russia Westerners were suspect by definition and it looks Putin's Russia is heading in the same direction so probably you will be better off staying home in USA and kiss Putin via zoom or something.

Post with body bags is bad taste, that war waged by your hero is  real not a computer game

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2 hours ago, vinapu said:

tassojunior,  you are really working hard for that upgrade on Aerolfot to Moscow reader mentioned.

But in Stalinist Russia Westerners were suspect by definition and it looks Putin's Russia is heading in the same direction so probably you will be better off staying home in USA and kiss Putin via zoom or something.

Post with body bags is bad taste, that war waged by your hero is  real not a computer game

Not being blood thristy and staying objective is not unpatriotic. This crazy jingoism at the start of all our wars is. It gets Americans and many others killed for nothing. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya were miserable bloodbaths for everyone for nothing but they weren't nuclear wars. But, but, we've really got it right on this one !

No. This is the same war hysteria as the other bloodbaths , just a lot more serious.

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The Real White House

Mar-a- Lago

Very dearest Tasso,

     Thanks, Babe, for helping dearest friend, Vladimir, at this time when so many vile people are turning against him.

     Just yesterday his enemies circulated phony story about him attacking a maternity hospital. Glad to see you avoided the trap and talked instead about Condoleezza Rice.

    And by all means repeat any rumor out of objective news sites like Newsmax and Fox. When in doubt, just post whatever Tucky Carlson says.

     I have a friend who owns a private jet. Gonna ask him to give you a lift down here to Mar-a-Lago so we can discuss strategy for future posts.

     Thanks bunches, Babe.💗

                                                                                                Donald J. Trump

                                                                                                President-in-your-mind

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/03/30/15/trump-putin.jpg?quality=75&width=982&height=726&auto=webp

 

 

    

 

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3 hours ago, reader said:

The Real White House

Mar-a- Lago

Very dearest Tasso,

     Thanks, Babe, for helping dearest friend, Vladimir, at this time when so many vile people are turning against him.

     Just yesterday his enemies circulated phony story about him attacking a maternity hospital. Glad to see you avoided the trap and talked instead about Condoleezza Rice.

    And by all means repeat any rumor out of objective news sites like Newsmax and Fox. When in doubt, just post whatever Tucky Carlson says.

     I have a friend who owns a private jet. Gonna ask him to give you a lift down here to Mar-a-Lago so we can discuss strategy for future posts.

     Thanks bunches, Babe.💗

                                                                                                Donald J. Trump

                                                                                                President-in-your-mind

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/03/30/15/trump-putin.jpg?quality=75&width=982&height=726&auto=webp

 

 

    

 

Typical insults from small-minded pro-war sycophants in the lead-up to every single war. If you're not for going to war you're friends with the enemy. Insults are all you have because there's no halfway intelligent reason for war with a nuclear power. Like all our last dozen wars and invasions they turn out to be stupid and bad for the US. And this one is the big banana that could kill half the US population. For nothing. 

Try making intelligent arguments for a war instead of crude stupid insults.

13 hours ago, vinapu said:

Post with body bags is bad taste, that war waged by your hero is  real not a computer game

 Do you not realize that is a video? 

And it is a hilarious one on the pro-war media's lies . 

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The Kremlin

Moscow

Honored Comrade Tasso,

     Greetings from home of glorious Russian Federation that invites you to visit the Kremlin at your earliest convenience--which for your information is April 1. Because imperialist western powers deny world's best and safest airline, Aeroflot, to fly in their airspace, I am sending seaplane from fleet of our discount carrier, Aerofloat. It will meet you 12 nautical miles off Chesapeake Bay at 10:00 hours GMT.

     You will enjoy glorious flight in your upgraded seat in emergency exit row. After a mere 13 refueling stops, you will arrive on the Moskva River. Within minutes you will join me for friendly dinner.  After many good toasts of glorious Russian vodka, please don't be afraid to tell me everything you know.

     A good source (whose initials are Donald J. Trump) tells me that you seem dissatisfied with your current country so I have arranged for you to receive unlimited visa to glorious federation.

     Of course you will be interested in locating a new home here so I have further arranged for a friend in real estate business to extend to you an offer so tempting you can't refuse. From your spacious balcony, you will enjoy view of glorious Chernobyl wildlife sanctuary. Please understand that payment must unfortunately be made is U.S. dollars or U.K. pounds.

     Until we meet at opposite ends of the Macron table, I remain your eager and trustworthy host,

                                                                                                        Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

                                                                                                         KJB Chief Operative

                                                                                                         President (or else)

P.S. So you will recognize seaplane, I attach a photo of glorious aircraft which is deemed fully airworthy by my butcher.

Why Russia's army still uses old Soviet seaplanes - Russia ...

    

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3 hours ago, Lonnie said:

What's equally frightening is having another point of view causes some people to become so unglued.

And even more frightening, they seem to believe they have talent for comedy and creative writing. 

RealisticDevotedApisdorsatalaboriosa-siz

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7 hours ago, tassojunior said:

...there's no halfway intelligent reason for war with a nuclear power.

So if we follow your line of thinking, if Putin invades Poland in six months, NATO should do nothing based simply on the fact that Russia has nuclear weapons?

This would render Europe defenseless.

There are 30 countries in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. You want the other 29 to step away from their agreement and allow the tank columns to roll toward Warsaw.

You've allowed fear to control your response to Russia's invasion to the point that you're encouraging the aggressor. Hopefully NATO's leaders will be influenced by the courage we see on display in Ukraine and not fall victim to fear and defeatism.

 

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18 hours ago, reader said:

So if we follow your line of thinking, if Putin invades Poland in six months, NATO should do nothing based simply on the fact that Russia has nuclear weapons?

This would render Europe defenseless.

There are 30 countries in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. You want the other 29 to step away from their agreement and allow the tank columns to roll toward Warsaw.

You've allowed fear to control your response to Russia's invasion to the point that you're encouraging the aggressor. Hopefully NATO's leaders will be influenced by the courage we see on display in Ukraine and not fall victim to fear and defeatism.

 

Do you really think the people dead even so far are worth not compromising at all on Donbas autonomy?

And yes, if Poland or anywhere had a small breakaway area that wants autonomy or independence I'd always say "let it go" instead of killing thousands of people over that issue and especialy risking nuclear war. That's true whether it's Scotand or Wales or Catalonia, or Quebec, or Modolva, or Slovakia or Donbas or Ukraine splitting from Russia. It's not worth the bloodshed to keep people against their will. And self-determination is a good thing. 

I have friends who are Russian-Ukrainian and Ukrainian in Prague and friends who are Russian and I wish the best for all of them. I think it's awful governments have failed us such that so many people will be killed.

Now we are headed into a war between nuclear powers escalating a lot every day we have to figure out how to stop. It won't be easy and a lot of people will die. It wasn't necessary. 

Also- fear of the powerful aggressor causing other countries to yield is the US position in almost every one of our many invasions. Half a million murdered by our blockade on Iraq and a half million murdered by our troops.  etc etc etc. How dare the Russians act that barbaric ! The US thought it had a patent on barbarism. 

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I better understand your position but please accept that I cannot agree with it. You seem to obsessed with the past, and you find yourself defending Putin's decision to invade Ukraine.

Capitulation to an aggressor will never quench his thirst for more aggression, more territory. That was certainly demonstrated in World War II. NATO was formed to deter such aggression in the future.

If Churchill had given in to German's demands, the map of Europe would look very different today.

North Vietnam aggressively fought a war with a nuclear power. It could have simply given in but it persisted and drove the Americans from their land.

Taiwan is regularly confronted by a nuclear power but chooses resistance.

I understand that fear can be debilitating if we allow it to dictate how we live our lives.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, tassojunior said:

Now we are headed into a war between nuclear powers escalating a lot every day we have to figure out how to stop. It won't be easy and a lot of people will die. It wasn't necessary.

I understand why people are nervous about the threat of nuclear war. It is not something you can take chances about.

But if you look objectively, America under Biden is demonstrating a considerable degree of restraint with its support for Ukraine struggle, for this very reason.

Biden has opposed Russian aggression with sanctions and some arms to Ukraine. But he is very clearly said that, as Ukraine is not part of NATO, the US and NATO will not get involved in assisting Ukraine with either troops or a "no fly zone".

In fact, the United States has even decided that simply allowing the Polish Mig fighters to be transported from Rammstein to Ukraine would be too much of a provocation.

I do not like the fact that all this is helpful to Putin. But I do accept that Biden’s motives are genuine in not wanting to extend to conflict.

I think Biden has clearly shown that Russia will have absolutely no genuine excuse to extend the conflict to a confrontation with NATO, or God forbid, a nuclear war.

But some posters on this site, and others I read, seem to be very exercised on this point and keep going on about how Biden may be about to bring us all to the brink of global nuclear war. Interestingly, I have noticed on this and other sites that they seem to be the same posters who are very exercised about the plight of Russian speaker in Luhansk and Donetsk. A coincidence I am sure

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