PeterRS

I think that is the early Wednesday evening drinks for guys only at the W Hotel on Sathorn. Frankly unless you already have friends it may be a waste of time. The drink prices are reasonable - 400 baht for free flow prosecco for 3 hours for example. But the Thais tend to come in groups and do not mix. The farang also come with at least one other, look around but likewise rarely mix. If you are a gregarious type of guy you could always introduce yourself as a way to starting a chat. The advice always given here is never buy a condo unit until you know the city well and are certain you plan to stay for a longish time. This is especially true since your retirement seems some years away, Rentals are not expensive. Same with areas. Suanphlu recommended by Faranglaw is a great area but it is not ideal for public transport. And being just off Sathorn the traffic can be terrible at rush hour. On the other hand if you are prepared to take motorcycle taxis, then you can live almost anywhere and get quickly to the subway or Skytrain. My last piece of advice would be to remember that your nocturnal wanderings will only take up about a quarter of your day, probably only a few days a week or less. So you might find living in or close to an entertainment district could be pretty limiting.

I have done the 12 hour time change a few times. Sadly it never gets any easier. If I can make it fit in to work schedules, I try to start the time change over the previous three days, going to bed progressively later each time. On the day of travel, I switch my watch to destination time as soon as I am awake. That might mean I get a bit hungry and tired that day but it is all my way of trying to beat jet lag. On the flight, again I try to eat/sleep at destination time. Most frequent flyers say not to drink alcohol but I need something! So I will have one scotch and then one glass of wine with the meal. Since service at the back of the bus depends on the airline, I often either make or buy at the airport a tasty sandwich and get a piece of fruit. Absolutely no caffeine which can undo all the good you are trying to achieve. Medical advice seems to be to avoid sleeping pills. On such a long trip, I have to take one so I can at least get some sleep. I watch movies, try difficult crossword puzzles and the most difficult sudoku puzzles to while away some time. The end result is that I usually arrive with a near empty stomach. So I eat as much as I want the day I arrive The hard part then is trying to stay awake as evening draws near. But again avoid caffeine as it does strange things to the body clock. Arrival is obviously better at the Thai end when you have the bars to look forward to. After the trip back home I am a wreck because I lack the discipline I have on the outward journey. I figure I will recover eventually.

Just noticed this thread. Yes, Cathay Dragon is the new(ish) name for Dragonair. I reckon the comparison between Air Asias passenger numbers with those of Cathay and Cathay Dragon is pointless. Both the Hong Kong airlines are full service carriers offering in most cases an extensive business class in addition to coach seating, and on some aircraft first class. So relatively it can not pack as many seats into a plane as a low cost carrier. Emirates has recently got rid of first class and about 16 business class seats on some of its A380s. Presumably the old configuration was not selling well. That drop of 38 premium seats has been replaced by 130 coach seats. So those A380s now cary 615 passengers. Air Asia flies probably 90% of flights short haul. CX flies some short haul, some medium and a great deal of long haul services. You can pack around 700 into a 777 for the 2x16 hour legs of a flight to n from New York. In the time it takes for that one aircraft to make the round trip (including its turn around time), one Air Asia aircraft will probably have completed at least 12 flights with over 2,000 passengers. Im not sure about flights ex HKG. But CX flights ex BKK are not necessarily much more expensive than the budget carriers provided you book well ahead. And if you want a full service flight to HKG, there is still the daily Emirates A380 with a fare of 7,760 baht return. That fare gives you a great aircraft with a full 3 course meal and a full baggage allowance at no extra cost. Take Air Asia and the price including baggage and a one hot dish meal selection and the price is 7,290 baht. CX and TG fares are higher, since they have many daily flights covering the route. Both along with Emirates and other full service carriers are part of the international alliances and many fares offer miles and loyalty points. Again, little comparison.

Great restaurant that has maintained its high standards for years. Lovely atmosphere, great staff, wonderful fusion cuisine. Sadly it has become very expensive now. Have eaten there many times. Always had diners at other tables. The restaurant is extremely good with great ambience and medium prices. In a totally different league from the hotel. Smart casual is probably advised. Shorts are OK but I expect flip-flops and T shirts might be frowned upon.

I always take a large cheap towel to put on the bed when using silicone gel. Never had a problem with the hotel sheets. Always prefer silicone to KY.

I really cannot remember what was in the building Jupiter 2018 now occupies before Jupiter took it over. That particular site has frequently been empty for years at a time. Rome Club was located there in the 1980s and a huge success when run as a gay dance club. When the owners at a stroke changed it into a straight club, it died very quickly. Roxy in the early 2000s cannot have lasted more than two years. Anyone remember what was there last year?

I agree the article contains inaccuracies. Stickmans main problem, though, seems to me to be that such a huge development basically covers a block from Rama IV to the Bangkok Christian Hospital on one axis and Silom and even across Suriwong on the other. That is a massive chunk of land, He mentions the possible reluctance of the mega rich family which owns Soi Thaniya. I would like to know who owns the rest of that area. We know that much of the land was purchased by the Patpongpanich family after World War 2. I know it owns the area around Patpong 1 and 2. Does that same family own Soi Thaniya? How about Silom Soi 4? I believe that is owned by the family which still lives on that soi in a mansion behind the gates at the end. Are these members of the Patponpanich clan? The main reason why I think this is mostly pie in the sky is the nearby 41 acre One Bangkok development. This happens to be mostly on the other side of Rama 4, another massive area currently under development encompassing the area between Rama IV, Wireless Road and the expressway entrance. It is this development that will see the demolition of the Dust Thani. One Bangkok has already announced it will include 5 office towers each incorporating a luxury hotel (one being a new Dust Thani), 3 mega luxury residential blocks and a vast area for upmarket retail outlets and additional green areas to complement Lumphini Park.. It is impossible to believe that the developers of One Bangkok will take over a similarly large chunk as suggested by Stickman on the other side of Rama IV for the purpose of building yet more hotels, tower blocks and retail spaces. One Bangkok will come on stream over a period of years finishing in 2025. In my book it is equally impossible that a separate group of developers will take over the Stickman area for the purpose of erecting precisely the same type of facilities. Even though One Bangkok will have a 2 or 3 year head start, it will take years before so much space is fully purchased and rented. Does anyone really believe the market could stand so many new but similar facilities so close and coming on to the market very soon afterwards? I dont. Someone is developing Soi Twilight. If the leases on Soi 4 and the two Patpongs are just for one year, something may be about to happen. But what? And if all the leases are just for one year, why are some businesses still moving in?

Agree with z909. Nature Boys is all but dead. You can try walking past and peeking inside. Maybe as the high season is here they could have an extra boy or two. In the same area Super A is pretty sleazy. Not at first look. Its just a narrow bar with dirty sofas on one side and a bunch of seemingly disinterested boys spending their time looking at their phones on the other. 2 or 3 may be making an attempt to shuffle on the stage. But buy them a drink and let your hands wander. Plenty to feel and then see.

Philip lives locally in Bangkok. Another book of interest more to those who have visited Bangkok and think they know it well is Bangkok Found by Alex Kerr. They will soon find they don't know it nearly as well as they thought! Kerr also lives locally and is an accomplished writer. His Lost Japan won that country's highest literary award. He remains the only foreigner ever to have won it. He wanders through many topics that give Thailand its unique 'Thainess'. He also has an interesting view on the sex scene in the city.

Im sure devising polls is far from easy as there will always be someone or some group whose tastes are not catered for. But I wonder why less than 50 have responded to all three of z909s polls. Is this average for gaythailand polls? I ask only because it seems tiny percentage of both membership and readership. So can they be anywhere near an accurate reflection of the views of the forum as a whole? Or just the smallish group of regular posters whose trip reports we all enjoy?

Excellent novel. Equally absorbing is Graham Greene's The Quiet American written almost 30 years earlier. It portrays Vietnam at the end of the dreadful French rule and the start of American influence in the country. Someone mentioned Cocktail Boys about gogo bar life in Thailand. There is little in the story lines we have not read somewhere before. I found it quite boring and did not enjoy it. For anyone interested in Cambodia, Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia by William Shawcross is utterly absorbing. Shawcross was one of the first journalists to visit the country after the Khmer Rouge were toppled by the Vietnamese. For a personal view on the Khmer Rouge years, The Gate by Francois Bizot is quite short but will have you perplexed and also in tears. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/jan/12/biography.highereducation

Too true. Sadly!

Unless my memory is incorrect (perfectly possible) I thought Barbiery only opened in around 1985/6. It was located on the first floor of a building directly opposite Soi Twilight. The original Twilight bar on Soi Twilight was definitely open in 1982. It changed its name and its layout around 2000 to Hotmale. Before then it was much more of a sleaze bar run by two ageing mamasans. Nudity was very common every night. I dont remember any other bar in Soi Twilight but perhaps that is just because Twilight was my regular. For a time Silom Soi 4 had the smaller Apollo Bar on the right near the end with a catwalk down the middle. Like Twilight, the boys danced nude from around 10.00. Apart from the gay Rome dance club where Jupiter 2018 is now located, I do not remember any other bar on that soi. Telephone did not arrive until around 1990. In Patpong 2 there was a host bar above where Screwboy now is but I cannot remember its name.There was also a host bar close to the entrance of the Ambassador Hotel on Sukhumvit. I am sure there were quite a few more. Others have written about the Stockholm sleaze bar near the bottom of now up market Luangsan. InterMustache House was also open around that time but it seemed to cater more for Thais and it was quite a trek to get out fo Sukhumvit Soi 10. I tipped 500 baht in the early 1980s. Cannot recall the off fee. In the 1980s and 1990s until the Asian Economic Crisis the baht was fixed to the US dollar at $1 = 25 baht. I remember the tip remained constant through the early 1990s. Do not recall the off fees. Traffic in the early 1980s was bad. No Skytrain. No subway. No elevated highways. Just buses and tuktuks. Getting a hotel car to to Don Muang for a flight out you had to allow at least 2 hours. Many arriving travellers booked the THAI minibuses instead of buses or a limousine. These seated around 12 and would take you right to your hotel. The problem was that they stopped at the hotels for all the passengers. If you lived in the Surwong, Rose or Montien Hotels, you might have to make 5 or 6 other stops first. Saunas arrived around 1984/5. Volt, Obelisks and later Heaven and a few others attracted a nice young crowd. Then Babylon opened at its old location at the top of Soi Nanta on the corner of Sathorn Soi 1 around 1990. Chakran off Soi Aree arrived later in the 1990s and was initially a great place for farang to meet Thais. Now it seems to be only for Thais and other Asians. I think it was also the first one to have nude nights when they partitioned off the large jacuzzi pool, the showers and the large dark steam room where towels would not be allowed. Do not remember when gay massage spas opened, probably around the same time as Babylon. V Club in its own building on Soi Aree was a favourite because it often had some models as masseurs. Albury arrived in 1996 in its first location on Suk Soi 13. In Babylon there was a room with a largish bed just off the coffee shop where I had several lovely massages with Khun Gung. Interestingly, Babylon had live entertainment with a guitarist or pianist/singer at the week-ends. Seems it took a leaf out of the old Continental Baths in New York where Bette Midler, Barry Manilow and Gloria Gaynor were on the roster of regular entertainers. I am sure there were more around before then. For a year or two there were two in Korea Town on Sukhumvit between around Suk 8 and 10.

This type of dancing was quite common in My Way decades ago - and boys only wore short pants

I have had drinks and dinner at Vertigo and at the top of a couple of other tall buildings in Bangkok. I simply cannot see their attraction. Bangkok is dead flat. There is virtually nothing of interest to see except lots of lights. Go to the top of Taipei 101, the bar at the top of the Ritz Carlton in Hong Kong or other tall buildings in Tokyo, San Francisco, Rio and many other major cities and you get a fantastic perspective of the city below and the hills on which they are built or which surround them. It is the topography which makes them interesting. Bangkok from above is visually just boring and not worth the price to get up high.

SGT/SGNetwork seems to have disappeared again.

Totally agree with z909. Thailand is mercifully free of graffiti perhaps because the penalties are heavy.

I guess you havent been to shows in some of the bars recently. The Sinatra version of My Way dates back to 1969. John Williams score for the first Star Wars movie in 1977 is only slightly more recent. Yet it is still used as a prelude to some of the shows. Golden oldies perhaps for an audience of not quite so golden oldies?

Ever since SGT was restored on Thailand servers, I bookmarked this URL to gain access - http://sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/ It always worked until a couple of days ago. Now I receive an on screen message - service unavailable. The new URL seems to be https://sawatdeenetwork,com/v4/activity.php

It has been the same with me. Never once negotiated a tip in many years of visiting Thailand. Only once had a boy who wanted more but it was just a try on. But I do agree it spoils the encounter. Re Bangkok I read on another forum here that the special model boys in Moonlight expect between 5,000 and 8,000 baht, that is if they actually agree to go with you. Seems they have the right to choose. Also from what the Chinese ladies are offering in Jupiter 2018 seems the catwalk models there probably expect more than the basic minimum.

I can understand Beijing’s desire to bring itself closer to Taiwan. But a tunnel? And one of that length? With so many non-stop flights between the mainland and Taiwan and so many Taiwanese companies employing tens of millions of mainland Chinese in their factories and businesses, I fail to see any logic. Besides, I trust the engineers have factored in the many earthquakes that hit Taiwan fairly regularly. Some like the one in 1999 are devastating. Taiwan expects a magnitude 7 earthquake or above every 4 or 5 years.

I suggest part of the reason is pure laziness! I immediately add that I only speak a little Thai and constantly kick myself for not learning more. Tones are common in English, it’s just that we use them for emphasis. I have friends who speak very good Thaii - not quite fluent but very close to it. I have an American friend who lives in Shanghai. He learned Mandarin Chinese at a langauge school in Taiwan and now also speaks Shanhainese and Canrtonese fluently. Lest you think they are the same, Mandarin has 4 basic tones whereas Cantonese has 9. Say the word “gow” in Cantonese and amongst others it can mean nine, a dog and a vital part of the male anatomy depending on the tone level you use. I understand British civil servants in Hong Kong pre the handover in 1997 had to take Cantonese courses and speak up to a reasonably decent level!

Judging from past responses, there are a lot of people who will advise you to rent and not to buy. Like ceejay I bought and have made both an exchange gain and will have made a very handsome profit whenever I eventually sell - barring some natural disaster or a property crash. Given the growing number of Chinese buying now in Bangkok I think the latter is unlikely. But it has happened before and could obviously happen again. If ever there is another crash like 1997, selling at the price you want is likely to take a lot of time. I certainly would advise renting for your next few visits, if only to give you time to look more closely at the many different areas of the city. Most would prefer to live in the centre particularly if they plan on regular visits to the gay venues. But obviously that will involve a considerably greater initial financial outlay.

This is from the well-known Siam Legal website - https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-property-financing.php. When I purchased, it had all to be in cash. It does seem that there has been a degree of loosing of the regulations since then. Most of the financial institutions in Thailand provide loans for real estate purchases to local Thais and Thai companies based on similar criteria we are used to in our home country.\ However foreigners generally cannot mortgage properties in Thailand. In fact, mortgage lending by local banks to foreigners was virtually unheard of in Thailand. Nonetheless, in recent years we have seen a slight shift in policies to allow foreigners limited access to financing. This was instigated, in part, by the Thai government's eagerness to promote tourism and to encourage economic growth in Thailand

I really wonder if you can get a condo in central Bangkok at your suggested range of US$40-50K. Looking at a couple of property websites, a one-bedroom 25.25 sq m unit at On Nut is selling for 3.44 million baht - $104K. New 30 sq meter apartments much further out on the Skytrain lines are selling for $70K up. 33 sq m on Ruamrudee (off Wireless Road and close to Sukhumvit) has an asking price of 4.5 million baht - $136K. Further out on Ratchadapisek the asking price for 52 sq m is 2.7 million baht - $81K. Older 50 sq meter units in the centre are more likely to go for around 65,000 baht per sq m minimum = almost $100K. Obviously there will be little tucked away sois where you might find even older units closer to your range, but I think it will be difficult. Sorry I have no idea how to go about renting. I do know that in my condo building there are now quite a lot of empty units because renting for many months seems of less interest to owners. It's either airbnb type short term one or two week rentals or a couple of years. As for mortgages, until few years ago foreigners were not permitted to purchase in Thailand using a mortgage. There has been a slight easing of the rules but only by a few financial institutions and I understand the terms and conditions are stricter than in western countries.