PeterRS

Remember all the hyperbole about Makkasan? How easy it would be to get to, how you would be able check in there for most airlines and get boarding passes before getting the train out to the airport, how the express service would be non-stop but also with a local line having a few stops ... ? The dreams of Bangkok planners have a nasty habit of not materialising as expected!

The average age of the majority of tourists visiting Sunnee Plaza doesnt seem to have changed much over the last 20 years or so. This is surely illustrated by the number of bars and gogo bars which have folded. Now there is less than a handful left. How long can they last? Tourists have discovered other gay places around the world, some offering much the same as Sunnee although not perhaps with Asian boys. With oil prices on the rise again, air fares will start going up. At what point do gay tourists stop flying so far as Thailand?

The past is only glorious for a moment in time, whether that moment is fleeting seconds or hundreds of years. Then time marches on. Had it not been for inquisitive explorers, the ancient Egyptian tombs would be buried under sand, Angkor Wat under thick forests after its water system failed, Persepolis under desert sand, Machu Picchu undiscovered and much of the structures of the old Roman and Greek Empires lost forever under meters of earth and dust accumulated during the following millennia. We should be thankful that at least some of our worlds history has both been found and is being preserved. Apart from their magnificence they helps bring the peoples of the world closer.

Sofitel So and Le Meridien are both vastly superior in term of quality, service, facilities - and price. You cannot compare them with the other mentioned here.

Hopefully there will be improvements coming in Bangkok with tenders soon going out for the rail link between its two airports and Utapao.

They will be new separate airports from the existing ones. Seems neither existing airport has enough land to permit further airport expansion. So the new second airports will be 20-30 kms away. The one for Phuket will be on the mainland north of the island nearer Phangna.

The heading on this topic is wrong as it gives the impression that Air Asia will no longer serve Myanmar. Air Asia has no plans to stop flying in to to Yangon from both Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur. What has been nixed is an Air Asia Myanmar based airline similar to those it has established in Thailand, Indonesia, the Philippines and elsewhere. Presently there are 6 daily departures from Bangkok to Yangon. This rises to 8 during the high season.

Indeed not or that jet would be in several thousand pieces. Yet the angle of the video and the photo do not show the gap leading to the runway. I wonder what happens if strong winds blow a large aircraft slightly off course? Go around I assume, but it does take jet engines several seconds to respond to full power commands. Im certain its all perfectly safe. It just looks scary.

At first I assumed that photo has to be doctored. The undercarriage is so close to the trees that an accident seems inevitable. Then I saw the video and it is absolutely accurate. Here is a screen shot taken perhaps a second later.

I pay very little attention to this sort of poll. Fact is they are only as good as the specific questions they asks and the specific routes they check. My experience has been that long haul non stop biz travel between the UK and Thailand is very difficult unless dates are locked in up to 10 months ahead. Sometimes availability is better with a plane change en route. But then the problem can be lengthy delays. I once had an 8 hour connection in Dubai. Even with biz class this was exhausting and a waste of the extra miles.

I think you have misinterpreted my point. I am certainly not suggesting a gay mass exodus by farang will be made up by an influx of gay Chinese and Indians. I was referring to total revenue spends in the country as a whole. I suppose it is a question of numbers. How many gay tourists are there and how much cash do they spend? From the forums it seems most stay in quite inexpensive hotels and dish out most of their cash in the bars and other venues. But we know from threads here that the number of western gays is down - at least those visiting the bars. On the other hand last year Thailand saw 10 million Chinese tourists. Thats nearly 30% of all tourists. Not all will have been on cheap package tours. Looking at a TAT chart of revenue sources, China tourists spent 531 billion, Tourists from the four western countries in the top ten list spent only about half at 277 billion. More important I reckon is the daily spend. The Chinese per capita spend was 53, 528. The highest non-Asian group was from the UK who spent 76,237. Last year, Chiina tourists increased by over 1 million. So if all the gay western tourists boycotted Thailand (which will never happen IMHO) the fractional loss to the national treasury will be more than made up by the ever increasing inflow of straights from Asia. Us gay farang are not yet extinct or on life support. But I reckon we are a dwindling breed.

Everyone can vote with their feet. Sorry that it will not work with Chakran because few farang have been going there for years. So it is not going to hit Chakrans bottom line. It is mostly Thai for Thai and wants to stay that way. A gay mass exodus will also have no affect on Thailand except perhaps to result in a few bars and other gay venues closing down. Isnt that what the government is now saying it wants to do - change the image of the country as a sex tourist destination? The income from the tiny farang gay sex tourist market will be made up in a flash with all the new families arriving from China, India and the other new markets. By the way I love the Beatles too.

I have never yet come across an airfreshner, purifier, joss stick, fragrance spray or any other product that will successfully eliminate stale cigarette smoke. It may do so for an hour or two but that fag smoke is embedded in curtains, carpets and other soft furnishings. It takes weeks and a total cleaning to get rid of it. Besides, entering a room that has been liberally sprayed by a cheap purifier is almost as bad.

Its nonsense to draw a comparison between a government mandated fee and entrance to a private facility. The government here charges foreigners a lot more to enter national parks than locals. Thats fair in my book. I dont pay taxes and doubt if my contribution to the local economy amounts to much on the larger scheme of things. So unlike some moaners I happily pay that higher fee. I used to visit Chakran when there was no issue with foreigners and always enjoyed the place. Now it seems to be following the example of R3 which had a much higher charge for over 50s. Both are privately run facilities. I reckon they have a right to charge whatever they want and to have different prices if they want. I may object to it but I believe that is their right. So I will go elsewhere. Fortunately there is some choice here. Is it any different to my going to ritzy Central Chidlom where their croissants cost 35 baht but at the new Tops on Nanglinchee which has croissants from the same bakery they cost only 29 baht. Some of us faring seem to think we have a divine right to enter any sex establishment. IMHO we fail to realise that there are many younger Thais who for whatever reason feel uncomfortable in the presence of non-Thais and really want to spend time with their compatriots. We should respect that. On the other hand, Chakrans flimsy excuse is just plain nonsense and they should take it down immediately. If they don't want foreigners, post s notice to that effect. That is what the Japanese saunas did when AIDS cases started to appear in Japan. It was another stupid act as the cat was out of the bag by then. But did that cause howls from foreigners? I doubt it.

That very nice photo deserves a caption. My try - "OMG! Whats this? A pussy???"

I wonder if this is something to do with two things. Many Asian women are getting married later, live at home with their parents and so have a lot more spending power for holidays. Secondly the rise in host clubs specifically for ladies. These are mostly found in Japan but may be on the rise elsewhere. The ladies tend to be older than the hosts and happily drop a lot of money in the clubs for drinks, snacks and excessive pampering by a handsome young host. The tips at the end of an evening are very generous. And thats before the possibility of sex which will command an even more generous tip. have no idea about host bars in Thailand, but the male gogo bars could offer an alternative. After all we know that many if not most of the gogo boys now are straight.

Rubbish! As lines have been extended the number of passenger cars has all but remained the same. I sometimes see trains with one extra car but not many of them. This idiot clearly has not travelled on a non rush hour Skytrain. I have frequently found myself having to squeeze into a car that looks and feels like a rush hour train. The BTS determination not to pay for additional cars is one major reason for its whopping profits.

Is there not something omitted here? Government, Tourism Authority and City Councils policies? I realise that there have been crackdowns in the past and they have proved either totally unsuccessful or only partially so. This time I detect a difference. You can see it in the ads which keep on running on True Visions channels about a sparkling new Bangkok/Pattaya axis. Its a continuation of what has happened in Phuket and Chiang Mai. Venues for Thais will mostly remain open and hidden from tourists. Establishments catering mostly to tourists and farang will mostly not be permitted to continue. Redevelopment will account for some. Lack of finding a new business strategy for others. Failure to obtain new licences for the rest. I am not optimistic.

I dont quite understand this logic. I agree the apps make meeting up with fellow gays far easier than it ever was before. But if there is no need to converge in one location, how is it that new enclaves will develop elsewhere? Just curious.

A thought. My gut feel is that the number has not gone down much. Much more that the type of gay tourist has changed. At the turn of the century the majority were probably older westerners (older being 45 and up) who came for around 10 days to 3 weeks. This group focussed more on sex and the gogo bars and some saunas. Now the majority are quite well off younger Asians who come for much shorter two or three long weekends each year. I do not think gogo features much in most of these guys visits. They are more here for shopping in the daytimes and are later into the massage and sauna scene with disco, clubs or Soi 4 to follow. Far more come in pairs or groups than the solo westerners of earlier years and socialise within their own groups. Offing boys does not play a major part in their trips. You just have to check the Singapore based chat site mentioned here some time ago Blowingwind. It has long threads on visiting Thailands major cities and phuket. The vast majority of posts are about massage. What will happen as the number of gay Chinese visitors increases I cant guess.

Do you think it is normal for the wives in Japan to know?

I believe all the indicators point to the commercial gay scene getting even smaller. I think Vessey is correct. In Bangkok the scene will continue to see more closures and a move further from the centre. Same in Pattaya. The present government seems determined to get rid of the Thailand as a Gay Sex Tourist reputation and to finish off what the Thaikhsin government started in the early 2000s. Just look at how the scene in Chiang Mai and Phuket has virtually collapsed from the thriving places these used be for gay tourists with many got bars, host bars and other places. So many have closed and not been replaced. The one part which will probably survive and even flourish could be gay massage venues I reckon.

That seems to be true today but I doubt if it was so for Japanese gay travellers in the mid 1980s. With military rule I doubt if there was much of a gay scene in Taiwan then. The Japan sauna association (if such a body actually existed) certainly closed their doors to foreigners but as other have implied the horse had well and truly bolted before then. Besides, the ban really only meant a notice at the entry. I suspect Japanese saunas then were a bit like those today. The staff at the front desk have difficulty seeing the faces of those entering. I heard they never asked for passports to prove nationality. I know a Singaporean and an overseas Chinese from elsewhere who always got in during the late 80s and early 90s. Yet just a few years ago the popular 24 Shinjuku demanded passports before handing over a locker key. Funny lot the Japanese!

You are correct. The information is confusing. The closure on August 11 and 12 were specific days for the Queens Birthday holiday. As I write it also states "closed". This is because, like many restaurants now, it is not open at this moment. It adds that today it "Opens 10:00 AM". Whether that is true or the Hall is actually closed and no one has bother to update the website, I do not know. If anyone is interested, it is probably best to call the number listed on the site for information 02 283 9411. Hopefully that actually works!

Are you sure you are thinking of the Ananta Samakhom Throne Hall? Its the old Italian style parliament building, not the Throne Hall in the Grand Palace where the late Kings body lay in state. According to its website it is definitely open.