steveboy

You are right, we are right, and the boys are right.  It is all consequence of this world being SHIT.
 
There is even worse victimization in the straight world.  At least the boys are not abandoned and left pregnant.  Women are enticed by men with lovely attitudes, fucked, and dumped.  Men are enticed by women, exploited and dumped. And there are a couple of honest relationships here and there...
 
I think the best we can do is to be as honest as possible while not getting upset over the dishonesty of others.

Did that swimsuit or whatever shrink, or was it planned that way?
 

If opening early is the one advantage you see in Babylon, there are other saunas that open at 12PM.
But Babylon opens at 10:30AM.  However it also closes early, at 10:30PM, which is a disadvantage.
In the many times I stayed at their barracks, after the buffet breakfast I went every day early to the sauna to work out in the gym, then had lunch at one of their restaurants that is open at noon  (the main one opens at 5PM).
 
I have been there in low and high season, and I never thought of making a precise estimation of us-vs.-Thai.  Maybe because I was there all the time I didn't notice the bad days vs. good days, or I was in the spirit to remember only the good times.  Of course there are always the lucky vs. unlucky days typical of any gay sauna. 
 
I would say that 56% Thai is really a good number.  When it is crowded there is an increasing number of non-Thai Chinese, maybe they come in groups. They are not old, but many of them are on the heavy side (all this yummy Western food that flooded China...).  On my last visit last year I sneaked into a private event they had at the pool exclusive for chubs!  Many of them Chinese.  They were very nice offering me free beer, but I felt looked-down by some because I didn't measure up to their size.

But... when I was a little boy I never felt interest for teddy bears.
Instead, I enjoyed mechanical toys, and had a passion for disassembling things..
 
Maybe I won't be afraid of GayButton if i can disassemble him?

(I post again these videos that I quoted in the thread "Some model photoshots", under pressure from readers concerned about sexual fixations)
 
I found a set of videos about amazing young ballet students who became potential stars after just two years of studying.  What an example of dedication and what this can achieve! 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OALDd-SodeY
 

 

 

   

It could fit many Hispanic nations too,  And even the public works departments of progressive countries...

LOL!  Cannot stay in a place without daily cleaning because too many boys in bed cause too much trashing to linens and the room in general,  which needs to be impeccable when boyfriend arrives the next day!   Speaking of a complicated life...

LOL!  Cannot stay in a place without daily cleaning because too many boys in bed cause too much trashing to linens and the room in general,  which needs to be impeccable when boyfriend arrives the next day!   Speaking of a complicated life...

It had crossed my mind to retire in Thailand.  Such good value and good fun...
But most of these "hard truths" give me goosebumps.
I rather put up with the 24 hour travel time to and from Thailand.
One alternative I also thought was to retire to Kuala Lumpur, and make many shorter trips to the countries around that attract me the most.  But in the meantime I'm so happy where I live now.

A good vacation:  happy to leave, and happy to come back.

At least with the pay-offs the Thais have are a rationale in (mis)handling immigrant work force, which is better (in my opinion) than the motivation for doing it in the US, which is pure hate.

This topic does seem to pop up frequently.  Very strange.  Of course that could mean that "where's there's smoke there's fire."  But my experience is so different I just don't get it.  
 
Contrary to what was stated above, I think there are more than "a couple" of members who have posted favorable reports.  I am one of them.  Personally I find guys from Vietnam to be the same as from the other countries.  I've had great experiences with them, travelled with a guy throughout Vietnam with whom I've stayed friends.  (Also he started refusing money from me and it become one of those friends with benefits situations.  So obviously they're all not out just for the money.)  My general perspective of course starts with the idea that people are people all basically the same.
 
I have also made the point in the past that there are guys from Vietnam at most if not all of the gogo bars and major massage shops in Bangkok and they are among the most successful guys at their respective establishments.  So they must be doing something right.
 
I think there may be a greater reluctance to self-identify as "bottom" - but that can and should always be confirmed up front anyway, so that can't really be an issue with a customer.  If a guy says he doesn't bottom then move on.  (Also, as others have said in the past, once you get to know many of these guys as a repeat customer or someone they feel more comfortable with, who knows what they may end up doing with you.)
 
I believe that the you non-offable guys at Scorpion Bar have long since gone.  In any event, if anyone is to be criticized surely it should be the bar's management, not the guys who simply had a job where they were able to set their limits.  So maybe we can move on from that particular shibboleth.  

We all have to start somewhere. 
 

It is definitely a more difficult decision to make between staying in South Pattaya or Jomtien nowadays as Jomtien has improved so much.
 
I like both, but definitely prefer to be based for the larger part of my Pattaya stay in South Pattaya in the Tuk Com area. During a Thailand trip I visit other areas in Thailand as well including a short stay in Jomtien, normally for the first 3-4 nights of a trip as a relaxing start after the journey and getting used to Thailand again. I like to break up the overall (about) 4 week visit by being based in different locations. Bkk, Jomtien, South Pattaya and normally Issan or Phuket. Always have done it that way and it keeps my interest up throughout the trip. I don't visit Thailand nowadays or indeed the last 10 years or so just to meet up with boys from the bars and apps as I have bf in Thailand already and the holiday/trip is more about getting away from Euroland, recharge batteries and enjoy time with bf in general.
 
But the Pattaya part of the visit does definitely revolve round bars, clubs, music venues, boys, fun, entertainment...as opposed to taking in travel and sights.  So access to all the normal daily requirements of a Pattaya visit have to be taken into consideration and the 'bulk' of those needs are more easily accessed by staying in the Tuk-Com/DayNight area of South Pattaya. My main accommodation at Mosaik apartments is there with very easy walking distance to Sunee, Boyztown, Walking St and it's a quick Baht Bus ride to most of the other places we like visit/hang out at from outside Tuk Com door.    
 
If I were into offing boys for long/short time from bars........South Pattaya would still be the preferred base too as ALL the Agogo bars are there as well as the amount of host bars between Boyztown and Sunee.  

Based on a whirlwind survey over the last three days I would say this is the case. It has now four good quality gay or gay friendly hotels in The Poseidon, Agate, Zing and The Venue. Opinions vary on this forum and you have to take price into account, but I would rate them better than the offerings from Boystown, certainly as far as sleep quality is concerned.
Of course there are no gogo’s but this is outweighed by its bars having recruited a large number of younger boys from Cambodia and Laos. They are friendly and eager to please and are not over ambitious as far as tips are concerned (at least that’s my experience). I offed a boy from Laos last night and he told me he will shortly have to do a visa run to Cambodia to keep his immigration status in order.
If gogos are your thing BT can quickly be reached by baht bus or motor bike taxis. There are a number of massage establishments and the so called gay beach is an easy walk, but I have yet to pay a visit, but with no expectation of seeing the big attraction of yesteryear ie boys in skimpy speedos looking for interaction. However it’s pleasant to sit in one of the concessions and enjoy the sea air sipping a beer, coffee or coke according to your preference. I’m afraid the Pattaya beach is much inferior.
Dunno whether other members share my views ?

Why would Europe want that?  While Europe becomes more progressive, the US is moving in the opposite direction. We have millions of people who are desirable immigrants, educated in the US, a valuable labor force in demand, who are in the country "illegal" because the government refuses to make them legal. We have a long border to the south, so long that it takes 20 billion dollars to make the wall, to protect us from... what?  Immigration from Mexico is not the same as from Syria or other Muslim countries. Mexicans are Christians, not troublemakers but sufficiently docile, and... the US is vastly underpopulated. Just travel between major cities in Texas and see how much empty land is there. So a few million people more should not be a problem... EXCEPT that if they eventually become citizens they may vote against the ruling party!

What you mention fills me with shame, although it may still be proven that he came to power through manipulation.  I am an American by choice, and I came to this land in good faith.  But I now understand how some Germans must have felt when with all their culture, education it was possible for one of the most abominable leaders in history to take possession of their country and launch it against humanity.  Up to the last minute I thought that Americans could not fall for that, but I was wrong.    

First of all and to stay on topic, I have to confess that the images of twinky Vietnamese boys like those reported at Screw Boys have the effect of throwing gasoline on my sex fire. I desire nothing less. So I find it sad that they deserve so much criticism. This is nothing new, since in my experience with them at home I find them more clannish, finicky and less trustworthy than other groups.
 
Since the money for money boys is also in topic, I definitely agree with you that it is dumb to penny pinch in a vacation that is expensive on travel but offers such good value in intimate satisfaction. I find this difficult to avoid being addicted to frugality.  I still have to enjoy the satisfaction of traveling economy instead of business, of staying in some gay barracks instead of a five star hotel, of walking instead of being pampered in taxis. But I now recognize the smartness of taking advantage of the high value in money boys, especially since I started frequenting this board, and I will recognize the high value even if I have to overpay (by local standards) for the circumstances mentioned in this and other threads.  So many times have I come to TH with several thousands of dollars in my pockets with intentions to spend them all, and then returned with more than half unspent.  No more!    

I think you are absolutely right, and I see this "incentive to boost birth rate" as something negative.
The world economy is traditionally seen as a Ponzi scheme where ever more young people are needed to support an aging population. But there are some favorable advances that may compensate for this.  Technology is giving us a great fleet of slaves, machines and automation, that can do the work for us. In reality, they are concerns that their existence will cause wide unemployment. And increasing number of seniors don't work because they don't have to or don't want to, not because they are unable to work. 
 
So, why should we push to increase the number of young people who may face unemployment?  Why not put to good use the many seniors who want or even need to work but are discriminated because of their age, not their inability? Soon we will have self-driving cars that can take seniors comfortably to their work. And the workplace is becoming increasingly friendly, with better facilities and even telecommuting.  I think that society should push for a decrease in birth rates. China should be much better off today than if it had not pushed for the one-child policy.
 
And a smart Thai couple should think seriously about how much 30,000 baht per year, or 60,000 baht on birth (US$ 1,000 or US$ 2000) can contribute to the cost of raising a child. And if they find that those sums are a lot of money, pity the children that will grow up in poverty!

It's getting better and better! Keep it coming!
 
"The hornets buzzed but did not land. Maybe it's me. Did I say the wrong thing?"
It's not you, it's them. You didn't say anything wrong.
 
Mirrors my experiences elsewhere; I have been through too much of this crap and would have labelled them differently: the time waster, the scammer, the retard, and the idiot.

reading  your Hornet adventure I understand evem better why I like to go to a massage or bar, see what I'm buying without asking any questions other that " how much you want ?"

Dear Newscene,  you should not feel one ounce of guilt or concern of hurting feelings.
 
What you pay/paid is peanuts compared to what some individuals do betting millions of dollars on a Ming dynasty vase. What more can you do with such vase than look at it?  But a million US$ can pay for a lifelong of great sex, especially in LOS!

Dear Newscene,  you should not feel one ounce of guilt or concern of hurting feelings.
 
What you pay/paid is peanuts compared to what some individuals do betting millions of dollars on a Ming dynasty vase. What more can you do with such vase than look at it?  But a million US$ can pay for a lifelong of great sex, especially in LOS!

It is fine if the boy has also a day job to attend to.  But this should not justify doing an unsatisfactory night job.  To leave Newscene abruptly at 3AM all aroused without giving him the satisfaction of having sex is not kind.  At best it is selfish. But he has the right to do so, and it is fair that he gets paid much less.  3000 bahts, nearly 100 U$S, is overly generous for joining a client in a disco without giving him some sex, and even if this was not discussed in all details, it is a given that his client wants sex.  We ALL want sex!
 
Thinking it further, the boy was completely lacking professionalism in his night job.  He should have told the client up front that he could be with him only until 3PM, In this way, Newscene could have gone straight to his room and fucked him hard all the way until his 3PM, instead of spending time letting him dance around.

"I was shocked, a little surprised and confused at the same time, I was like “He is telling me now, at 2:35am??” not even mentioned once while we were hanging out whole night?
 
 
Immediately I calmed myself down and didn’t show him that I was annoyed..."
 
Vinapu it is clear that newscene was not happy with the boy behavior and he didn't fulfill his expectations so why pay the full fee ???
The boy was clearly trying to avoid having sex he could leave only less than one hour more for sex but he we was stubborn not to do so it's not a honest behaviour from the boy so why paying him the full fee ?
If newscene wanted a partner for dancing he could go straight to the club hung out with one of the boys there pay for his drinks and maybe give him at the end couple hundreds Baht as tip but surely he wouldn't take a boy from a bar pay for drinks and bar fees just for dancing...
 
I am very honest man and I met many boys in Thailand I am very generous to the ones that was good with me but I can be very stubborn to boys that wasn't. I just want to see what happened if the opposite happened if newscene said to V that he enjoyed the time with him but doesn't want sex with him so he's paying only 500 Baht for his time ,the Vietnamese boy surely will not be amused with that ...