Gaybutton

Wow! And that didn't even make the headlines? I wish I was there to see that! I think most people can tell the difference between a serious statement and someone just kidding around or joking, as I was doing just now. While I can understand how the intent of Geezer's post could have been misinterpreted, I can tell you that knowing Geezer as I do, and I'll guarantee that any of his friends would say the same thing, probably nobody on this planet is more cautious about taking an under-age boy. Geezer won't take a boy at all unless he thoroughly checks the boy's ID. If the boy is so much as one day younger than 18 years old, Geezer won't take him, and I'm not exaggerating.

Apparently to all except for the interviewer. The interviewer could simply be in a bad mood, but gets to deny people a visa simply on the strength of that, despite the fact that the applicant has met every requirement flawlessly. You said this is by design. Why is that the design? At the moment, that's on my "I Don't Get It" list. Do you know why they want to do things that way? Did anyone explain to you the logic behind that kind of policy? I can't make sense of it. I thought that was the very kind of thing the USA is supposed to be against.

I agree. Who even cares about Palin's kids? They leave the Obama kids alone. They leave Chelsea Clinton alone. They leave Julie and Tricia Nixon alone. They leave Biden's kids alone. They even leave Bush's kids alone. Why can't they leave Palin's kids alone?

Actually, 16 is legal in Thailand, provided no money exchanges hands. The trouble is, who's going to believe a 16 year old is with a farang four times his age, but no money exchanged hands, even if it's true? 18 and older, folks . . . please.

Maybe it's because he missed . . .

I thought this commentary was well worth reading and I agree with every word of it: _____ Commentary: We'll Never Know Why They Kill By Bob Greene CNN Contributor Editor's note: CNN Contributor Bob Greene is a bestselling author whose forthcoming book is "Late Edition: A Love Story." (CNN) -- Carnage in Germany, carnage in Alabama, and one of the most saddening aspects of the killings is this: The impulse to ask "why," while present, seems somehow muted. There will be a search for answers -- why did Michael K. McLendon, the gunman in the American South, murder 10 people, why did Tim Kretschmer, the gunman in the German South, murder 15 people -- but even when a tentative answer is arrived upon, it almost certainly won't mean much. Because the real answer we're searching for -- the answer that will stop these bursts of bloodshed -- seems destined to ever elude us. There is always an impulse to blame obscene killing sprees on outside stimuli. In the years just after World War II, comic books were cited as an incitement for young people to harm each other. Violent television programs were subsequently blamed, as video games sometimes are today. The connective theory has long been: if society desensitizes people to violence, if violence becomes a commodity, then it will proliferate. If people are passively taught that violence is everywhere, then violence will sprout, if not everywhere, then many wheres. But to place the brunt of the blame for this on outside forces is to duck a truth that we are understandably reluctant to face: the impulse to murder without remorse seems to be, in some people, almost like a learned language, deriving from somewhere deep and difficult to find. Thankfully, it remains relatively rare, although during weeks like this one it is not easy to take much comfort in that. Yet with each new torrent of killings, with each new demonstration that, to some among us, the idea of spreading heartache and horror is not only acceptable, but attractive... With each new demonstration of that, we find ourselves once again looking for lessons, in a search that can seem perpetually futile. Are the gunmen in cases like these out to make a name for themselves? If so, they are ordained to fail; there was a time when multiple, random murders were enough to give the perpetrators such notoriety that their names became catchphrases. Charlie Starkweather, whose name means nothing to most people today, had more than one movie made about him after his killing spree on the American Plains in the 1950s. There was a time when we could ascribe, to people who murdered without mercy, a dark desire for the worst kind of fame. But that's gone. Those names you read in the second paragraph of this story -- Michael McLendon, Tim Kretschmer -- may be freshly in the news today, but you will have forgotten them in a month or two. That's one more numbing sign of just how ordinary extraordinary violence has become: the names fail to stick. The protagonists are interchangeable. How to stop this? There has long been a debate over whether the death penalty is a deterrent to murder, but this week the murderers themselves are both dead, and almost certainly they considered that probability before they set out to kill. The learned language of violence seems to contain a concession, on the part of those who absorb it, that their acts may very well conclude with their own dying -- and that the price, in their minds, is acceptable, even, perhaps, sought. Which may be the most chilling lesson of all. Because if even death for those who do it is not enough to stop the profane slaughters around the globe, then our impotence in the face of this feels all the more profound. Whatever our need may be to grasp for answers, the killers, by dying on the day they kill, deny us the chance for even that scant solace. It's the ultimate taunt; it is as if they are saying: You want to know why? You'll never know. Which leaves us with only one certainty: Before long -- in a matter of days, or weeks, or months -- we'll be asking these questions again. The names will change; the specks on the map will be different. But somewhere, someone who has learned the wordless language of spreading hurt and grief will do this once more, and we will pause anew in our daily lives to wonder what has become of us. And feel all the more empty at the silence that greets our question.

Obviously it can't hurt anything to be cautious, and I fully agree that one would be taking a serious risk by taking a boy with him who has no ID, but again I have never heard of farang arrested for harboring when he took a boy off from a bar, no matter what his nationality is. As a matter of fact, I have never heard of any farang arrests when he took any boy off from a bar. As far as ID is concerned, if a Laotian boy has a valid passport with a valid visa that has not yet expired, then you're not harboring. Under those circumstances he is in Thailand legally. He and the bar would have a problem if it is discovered he is illegally working in a bar, but you wouldn't. However, I still wouldn't advise taking him under any circumstances unless he at least can produce his passport and visa and he is at least 18 years old. If he can't, then if it were me I would tell him it was nice to meet him and maybe I'll see him around some time. If he can produce those, then I don't see an element of risk for the farang at all, but people have to make their own decisions. Obviously, there is no question about it if the boy is Thai, so people have to make their own choice regarding risk and whether taking the risk is worth it to them. Under any circumstances, to my mind the basic universal precaution is very simple: No ID=No Off.

Considering the number of possibilities, it's going to be difficult to respond to that because there's no way to know what you have and have not discovered. However, your post brings the word "cookies" to mind . . .

In other words, it really is up to the whim of the interviewer and the interviewer doesn't have to answer to anybody or justify a thing. "I don't like your face." Rejected! "Your shoe is untied." Rejected! "You have a tattoo." Rejected! "You don't know the second verse of The Star Spangled Banner." Rejected! "You forgot the date of Mamie Eisenhower's birthday." Rejected! Apparently it really is as simple as that. And some of us complain about immigration procedures in Thailand? That's true, but it wouldn't kill them to at least give a hint to the person they reject, especially if he met all the published application criteria and had all the necessary paperwork. I get the feeling they reject applicants if they suspect they might be gay. After all, we can't have gay foreigners running loose in the USA. That's a no no. No no no no nooooooo!

I don't see why not. I've written many lengthy, detailed articles for people who come to these boards. Since you brought up the issue in the first place, I don't see why you can't do the same thing. Nobody is asking you to post any kind of personal information, if that's the problem, just some "dos and don'ts" guidelines for people trying to get a visa for a boyfriend, based on your own experience. It's an 'up to you.' Meanwhile, since the interview was so short and his application was rejected, apparently by sheer whim of the interviewer, did you investigate whether it was possible to go to someone higher in authority, check if there is an appeals process, or file some sort of complaint about the fact that she refused to even look at the paperwork? Did she give a reason for the rejection?

I'm sorry, but that decision, at least on this board, rests entirely with Travelerjim. It was his post and he has the right to be the one to decide whether to re-post it or not, just as you or any other poster would have. I would not presume to make that decision for him. The only way I would ever do something like that would be if a post was removed by a moderator, against the wishes of the poster, but we were later convinced we were wrong to do so. In this case, Travelerjim made his own decision and we will respect his decision. If he wishes to reinstate his post, that will also be his own decision. We will abide by whatever he chooses to do. However, you can still have that civilized debate. While we won't resurrect Jim's post against his wishes, I don't think he would object to seeing a debate about the basic issue that he brought out - namely that several bars hire Laotian boys illegally and what effect that might have on farang who do not realize they are with a Laotian boy rather than a Thai boy. I'm sure you can easily figure out the gist of the issue from reading my own first post on this thread.

That's a very nice thought, but I doubt it's necessary. Jim does read the boards and I'm sure he is already quite well aware that the vast majority of people who read these boards want him to return. It's the people who attacked him and sent him a threatening Email whose posts have no value of any kind, and rarely ever do. There was nothing in Jim's original post that contained anything that should have provoked this brouhaha. It was worthy of discussion and intelligent opinion. The people who attacked Jim don't ever seem to mind someone's opinion, as long as it agrees with their own. As a matter of fact, one poster did try posting an attack on this very thread. You may notice that you can't find that post. Guess why. That person has been duly warned and already knows what will happen to his posting privileges if he ever tries it again on this board. We don't put up with that here, whether it's Jim or anyone else being victimized by an idiot.

Why keep it a secret? Probably many could benefit from your experience. Why not share it with us or at least post some guidelines?

The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: for photos, see: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000008617 _____ Interpol Request Arrest of 2 British Paedophiles in Pattaya Following a request from the English division of Interpol two convicted British paedophiles have been detained by the Pattaya Immigration Police. At 2.00 pm on 11th March 2009 an operation was mounted by a team of Immigration Police led by Pattaya Chief Inspector Pol.Col. Arnonnat Kamonrat, accompanied by Sriracha Chief Inspector Pol.Lt.Col.Pakapong Sai Ubol and Koh Srichang Chief Inspector Pol. Lt. Col. Panomprai Jangah. The police arrested two British nationals, Mr. Charles Thomas Hadley [58] and Mr. Brian Peter Lielson [66], at the entrance of Aree apartment, Soi New Leng-Kee, Pattaya third road, Nongprue, Banglamung. The two men were both former London real estate businessmen and had committed more than 10 offenses of child sex abuse in England together with similar offenses in Cambodia before visiting Thailand. Pol.Lt.Col.Pakapong Sai Ubol said Mr.Hadley had previously been jailed in England for 9 years and Mr. Lielson for 7 years for under aged sex offenses. On their release from jail, they came to Thailand and Pattaya on a tourist visa in 1993. They made several trips to Cambodia during which they built up a record of sex offenses with young boys. Following the request from Interpol on 16th February 2009, the immigration police cancelled their visas and four days later their names were put on the blacklist . On the 5th March, the Sriracha immigration discovered that they had arrived in Thailand and traveled to Srichang Island [Koh Srichang] in the Sriracha district. The suspects were later traced to the A-ree apartment in Pattaya at which point the Sriracha police requested the co-operation of their Pattaya colleagues to make the arrest. The two paedophiles will be processed and sent back to England. ____________________ And this, from PATTAYA ONE: _____ Immigration Police Arrest Two Convicted English Pedophiles and Deport Them In a joint operation between Pattaya’s Immigration Office and Police from Sriracha, two English Nationals were arrested on Wednesday at the Aree apartments here in Pattaya based on information received from Interpol regarding their previous convictions. Both men, named as Mr. Charles Thomas Hadley aged 58 and Mr. Brian Peter Nielsen aged 66 are convicted sex offenders from UK and are known to have committed similar offences in other countries, including Cambodia. It is known that both men have been coming to South-East Asia since 1993. Immigration Police detained the two men under new rules governing individuals who have been convicted of serious crimes in foreign countries. Immigration can now deport these individuals regardless of whether they have committed offences in Thailand or not. Pedophilia is one of a number of serious crimes the new rules cover and both men were later transported to the Immigration Detention Center in Bangkok where they await deportation back to the UK. Their passports will also be stamped as “persona non grata” meaning they will not be allowed to re-enter Thailand. We also understand that one of the two men is currently wanted on sex offence charges back in UK.

Personally, I hope that's exactly what the ones who plague Thailand will do. Good riddance.

The following appears in the BANGKOK POST ( a tip-of-the-hat goes to Shebavon for supplying the article): _____ New Delhi- Sexual exploitation of boys in three of India's major pilgrimage centres is pervasive and on the rise, a study said yesterday. The study focused on male child prostitution at Hindu temple sites in Puri, eastern Orissa state, and at Tirupati and at Guruvayoor in southern Andhra Pradesh and Kerala states. The study said that in Tirupati, where tourists are mostly Indians, boys aged between six and 18 years said prostitution is rampant due to demand from domestic tourists. "Family members saw less risk when male children are involved in selling sex as compared to girls, as the social stigma is less and the fear of pregnancy does not exist," the report said. DPA

Isn't that precisely what I predicted at the beginning of the contest? Some of the more prolific posters during the contest period have suddenly disappeared. Well, that's their choice, but I'm definitely disappointed if their posting motivation was only the contest.

And that's a perfect example of why utter idiots such as those who thought it was a great idea to hurt Jim's feelings like that or people such as that moronic, gutless coward who actually sent him a threatening Email, hidden of course by a program to make the Email untraceable, ought to be completely disregarded. People like that are worthy only of contempt. I'd like to see any one of them life a finger to help someone else or spend one baht out of their own pockets to help people the way Jim does. Those are the people who ought to be leaving the message boards, not Jim.

I have never heard about any farang having any problem whatsoever in that situation. No arrest and no fines. No law says that it is incumbent upon a farang to check the ID of anybody. You're being foolish if you don't and you would have definite problems if the boy is found to be under age, but as far as it being your responsibility to check whether the boy is actually Thai or whether he is in Thailand legally, that's not your problem and, as far as I know, the police do not regard it as your problem. In this case, the boy would be in trouble, but not the farang. I know of no law that prohibits sex with boys of other nationalities provided that the boy is at least 18 years old.

No problem. He'll just buy the prison . . .

I don't think anyone is disputing that, but the question is not about that. The question is what did Pope Pius XII do that makes the Catholic Church want to canonize him as a saint? There must be a reason. I'd like to know what it is.

I would also contact both the bank and the police to report it. THE NATION now has a graphic display that shows how it's done and what the scamming devices look like. See: http://nationmultimedia.com/admin/specials...d/file/How2.pdf

I see. I didn't read the other forums and I almost never read one in particular, the one on which I'm guessing the attacks to which you referred occurred. The fact that he was attacked on that one comes as no surprise. If anything, the surprise is that anyone who posts on certain forums would not know in advance that they will end up attacked. That's virtually a given. Well, it doesn't happen on this forum. That's because I'm a "control freak," remember? And those are the freaks that need controlling. However, I still don't understand why, if he was attacked on other forums, he would remove his post on this one. There wasn't a damned thing wrong with his post and I hope he reinstates it so that people who wish to discuss it can do so intelligently. Of course, the issue can still be discussed whether he reinstates the post or not, but Travelerjim's opinion is just as valid as anyone's and if someone dislikes his opinion, then they can just fuck off if they can't debate the issue rather than attack the poster. Also, there's really no need for anyone to post on multiple forums. Most people reading one forum read all of them anyway.

Here are some more details, from THE NATION: _____ Protecting ATMs against Skimmers By The Nation Published on March 11, 2009 A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said yesterday. The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected. Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fast-developing technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers. On Monday, the Thai Bankers' Association issued a statement saying that they would consider compensating victims on a case-by-case basis, but would be completely responsible if victims can prove that they were not at fault. In Chumphon, three commercial banks yesterday agreed in principle to pay money to victims who have lost money through skimming after an investigation proved that their cash had been stolen, not lost through carelessness. The Bangkok Bank branch said its decision would soon make a final decision and make payments from March 23 onwards. Kasikorn Thai and Thai Military Banks have not coordindated with the provincial authority's taskforce in Chumphon about the conditions and the date of payments, senior provincial official Suthin Phayak said. "We expect that they have contacted their victims and made personal agreements." Police in Chumphon's Lang Suan district said they were going after four more suspects, all part of a Malaysian ring led by a man called Teo Puex Heng. So far, 15 victims have registered with Lang Suan police, who police say have made agreements with the three commercial banks. In Chumphon, around Bt3 million has been stolen so far. Police had earlier said the racketeers had stolen around Bt50 million from victims in Surat Thani, Phetchaburi, Trang, Krabi, and Songkhla over the past five months.

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Banks to Protect ATMs Against Skimming Scams A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday. The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected. Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fast developing technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.