Gaybutton

"Love is putting yourself last so that he can come first" - Gene Barry, '

Oh yes I do know - only too well. I too lived by myself. I came to Thailand years before living there and went through it many times. For me some of the most terrible days of my life were the days my holiday was over and i had to return to the USA. I clearly remember more than once, when I had to change planes in Tokyo on my way back to the USA, right next to the plane to the USA there was a plane getting ready to go to Bangkok. It was all I could do not to try to board that plane. Personally, though it isn't easy, I'd choose being lonely and realistically looking forward to my next holiday in Thailand rather than get stuck in a money trap with obviously insincere boy. Unfortunately, the choice becomes accepting reality or trying to continue living a fantasy. I hope you make the right decision.

That's right. You never know, so it is best to be very cautious about it. Don't forget, I live in Pattaya and have been here many years. I think I know a little more about the goings on than people who go to Thailand for holidays, even if it is months at a time, and decide now they know more than people who live here. Some of the "expert" posts I see cause me to spend several minutes finishing up having my little laugh. I'm not warning frivolously.

That is exactly the kind of problem I'm warning about. Some might be lucky and it doesn't happen, but believe me that is the exception. The problem is, as I said, no matter how much you give, it's never enough. And the pleas for money never stops. One poster calls my advice ludicrous and says just block him. Really? Try it. Just try it, It won't take long to see how doing that seems like it will work, except for one thing - it doesn't . . . If you want to send money as a gift, by all means send how much you want. No problem about him knowing who sent it if, and only if, he doesn't get your contact information.

How much more of a surprise could it be, unexpectedly receiving a notification money has been sent to you and is available at any Western Union pick up office?

That is what I think, but not in the way you probably think I think . . . He did exactly right and he tried his damnedest to pull it off. This is just the kind of trap I keep trying to warn about. If you're in Thailand for a holiday, enjoy the boys, but don't let the money boys get too close to you. The non money boys either. Enjoy it while you're in Thailand, but don't give him any of your contact information - None. If you made the mistake of giving him your Email address, Facebook page, or anything else, change it as soon as you return home. In Thailand buy a cheap phone and put in a Thai SIM card that you can get rid of when you leave. If he wants your phone number, give him that one. You can get perfectly good, very cheap phones here for as little as 300 baht. If you have a LINE ID, change it to something else when you return home. Especially if you're inexperienced in Thailand, you do not want any of these boys to be able to contact you after you leave. If you think the boy of your dreams that you met here is any different, think again. "Not this boy. He's different." Is that so? If you're wondering why I also said non money boys, I'll try to illustrate why I said that. Many years ago, long before caller ID or any of the modern gimmicks, the phone rang and my father answered it. After saying hello, he simply listened. After several minutes he said, "I can't afford a free vacation" and hung up. Got the idea? I hope you'll heed my advice rather than finding out the hard way that you should have . . .

What about Western Union? Also if you're talking about a money boy, why not let him know you want to send money to him, but you don't know how. He'll know.

Others may disagree with me, but I've learned not to even try to buy gifts for the boys. Instead I give money and let them buy what they want. Most times when farang buy gifts for the boys, the boy will react very happy about it. Later he will either throw it away or give it to somebody else. Giving money may seem tacky to us, but believe me, unless the boy specifically asked for something, he'll appreciate money much more than a gift you pick out for him. And to the boys a gift of money is not tacky at all.

In August I have Christmas plans? Not just yet . . .

I should have mentioned that I saw several customers get very angry about the mandatory dinner and were arguing with reception. I think they were right if they were not told in advance. However, those of you who know how things work in Thailand, you don't need me to tell you how much good their anger and arguments did them . . .

Since Covid I don't know if they are still doing it, but be careful where you stay. Several of the hotels, especially the ones around the beach areas in Pattaya, had mandatory Christmas dinners. Hotel guests would be charged for it whether they ate there or not - and often guests didn't know about it until they arrived. Actually they were very good and I thought well worth it, but I never liked the idea of mandatory. The excuse was they were preparing elaborate, expensive dinners and could not afford for their guests to eat elsewhere. They should have at least informed their guests in advance but few ever did. I don't know if any hotels in Bangkok or other cities were doing that, but I would want to find out before deciding where I want to stay and how much they are charging. Before you commit to a Christmas hotel, ask if they are doing that. Check about New Year's Eve too.

Slightly off topic, but anyone looking for tacky souvenirs in Pattaya ought to try the Lukdod Shop. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g293919-d8536911-Reviews-Lukdod_Shop_Pattaya-Pattaya_Chonburi_Province.html Scroll down to read the reviews.

That is what I would say too. I don't mind being generous with the boys, but I mind very much being ripped off, and that is how I see the prices being quoted. I'll stick with the apps. I used to be among those who felt as if they are missing something if they weren't in the bars every night. Now I'm just fine having little to do with them at all. Besides, I'm not a drinker in the first place. I'm sure I would view it differently if I were in Thailand only for holidays. Living here, I see things much differently. I check out Jomtien Complex once every few months or so. I haven't been to Sunee Plaza since Covid began. I haven't been to Boyztown in years. For me, that's quite enough. For me times, and apparently prices, have changed.

As far as I know, that is correct. What used to be common when Pattaya had a great many go-go bars, the mama-sans would try to get customers to take the boys they recommended. That's because those boys would give kickbacks to the mama-san. I don't know how much of a kickback they gave or if any of that still goes on today, but the boys are free to go with or turn down farang, negotiate their own prices, work in whichever bars they want, and change bars any time they want. I doubt many boys still give kickbacks to mama-sans or anyone else these days, By the way, 1500 baht is expensive for short time in Pattaya. Unless times have changed since I last took a bar boy off for short time (and that has been quite a while), the going rate is 1000 baht. 1500-2000 baht for overnight. Of course, no boy will object if his customer wishes to be more generous than that.

The bar requires? For me, that's a new one. I've never heard of a bar "requiring" anything except its off fee. In this context who, exactly, is "the bar" and why would the bar give a damn how much the boy gets from an off? If it's not already obvious, I'll try to explain: "The bar" is either the mama-san or whoever is in charge of the boys. "The bar requires" is because whoever is requiring it demands kickbacks - and that is likely whoever is in charge of paying the boys at the end of the month or has some other kind of hold over the boys. If the boy is really lucky, he might get to keep half for himself. Yet another reason why I won't take boys off from those kinds of places.

Wouldn't it be a bit difficult to unionize a technically illegal profession? Thailand legalized marijuana. How about legalizing prostitution along with it? Since prostitution is such an open secret - the most open secret I've ever heard of - what's the point of keeping it illegal? "Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?" - George Carlin

Ok, I agree. You've said your piece and I've said mine. All done. Nothing to be gained by continuing.

Neither do I. You're greatly exaggerating what I'm trying to say. All I'm trying to convey is it is very easy to fall into the trap, even if that is not at all what the boy intended, so be careful and use common sense. For me it is not a question of what I believe. It is a question of what I see, what I'm told, and what I know has happened between many farang and boys. I'm talking about money boys. What do you think a money boy is after? I am perfectly well aware that most farang go to Thailand, have a great time, and nothing goes wrong during their stay and after they return home. But enough of it does happen that it is easy to lose sight of reality. Over the years I've seen too much. As I said, believe whatever you want, but I'm telling you I know what I'm talking about. Enjoy your time in Thailand with the boys, but remember - you stand warned.

Yes, it does. That is exactly what is going on. I wouldn't go as far as calling it sinister or calling it a plot, but with all I've seen, heard, and personally experienced over the years, I'm convinced the vast majority of the money boys are trying to do just that - and I don't blame them. You know why? Because too many farang treat them as if they are nothing more than sex machines, make empty promises, screw over the boys, and generally treat them as if they and their lives mean nothing. Many make no effort whatsoever to understand anything at all about their lives and culture. It's just give me my happy ending massage and here's the smallest amount I can get away with tipping you. Nearly all the money boys I've known over the years have stories about being treated like that - more often than not. If you've been on these boards long enough, you probably have seen that for yourself - farang trying to figure out the cheapest they can get away with giving to these boys. Just today one of the boys was telling me what happened to him a few days go. He advertises himself on some of the apps as a massage boy. That's all he does and he'll say so. He'll give a good massage and a happy ending, but no fucking. Meanwhile, he says, most of the farang trying to make an arrangement with him make it clear they want to fuck him. He turns them down. But just a few days ago one customer said he understood and won't try to go beyond his limits. The boy went to the farang's place, started the massage, and shortly into it the farang wanted to fuck him. The boy reminded him of what the agreement was. The farang gave him a couple hundred baht and told him harshly to get out. He'll find another boy who will do what he wants. Have you any idea of how many similar stories I've heard over the years? Most are much worse. You can label it a "sinister plot" if you want to, but I see it much differently. So, I stand by exactly what I have already posted on this topic. Nobody has to agree with me, but I'm in a position to know more about it than most on these boards. I see it as I see it. If anyone doesn't want to believe me, fine with me - believe whatever you want.

You got it right the first time . . .

Can't it simply be choice? I'm no introvert and if I go out to the bars, believe me I'll be very happy to talk to anyone who wants to talk with me. While I don't wear a badge that says "I'm Gaybutton" sometimes people recognize me and want to talk, and I'm glad to talk all night if they want to, But frankly I'm not looking for that. I'm not going to the bars to have a conversation with farang. If I'm looking to mingle and have a conversation at the bars, guess who I'm going to do that with . . .

The only thing you did wrong was thinking you did something wrong. You did nothing wrong at all. You make a good point about trying to joke with them, at least until you know the kinds of things they think are funny and the kinds of jokes they just don't get. Rodney Dangerfield would be a total flop in Thailand. And don't take it personally or feel insulted if a boy calls you old or fat or bald. That's one of their ideas of humor and they mean nothing by it. Understanding their sense of humor takes time. For example, if a boy calls me fat, I just laugh and tell him I'm not fat. I'm having a baby. That's the kind of thing they think is hilarious.

No argument there. I'm writing from the perspective of someone who lives in Pattaya, so even during Covid I didn't have to be worried whether Thailand was opening soon or not. Lucky me . . .

Unless the farang is handing over a lot of money. Then it's "What are you doing home? The farang is waiting. Go on, go, go go! And don't forget to remind him that I'm your sister, not your wife . . ."

I'm not surprised. As I said, I've seen this tactic time after time over the years. Your story and Min's story are merely the two latest. The most vulnerable farang are the first-timers and those who don't read these boards. They go to Thailand, go to the bars for the first time, are overwhelmed that a young, good looking boy seems very interested in him, is very affectionate with him, and gives him a sexual experience like he's never had before in his life. The farang victim is convinced the boy has fallen in love with him, so now he falls in love with the boy. The trap has been sprung. He treats the boy like a king while he is in Thailand and promises to financially support him after he goes back to his home country. Once he's returned home, that's when the pleas for money start. Usually it's small amounts at first and not too often. Then the boy comes up with more and more reasons why he needs more and more money, more and more often. No matter how much you give him, it's never enough. It continues until the farang just can't do it anymore. Relationship over. The farang is heartbroken, but the boy simply moves on to his next target if he hasn't been doing that since the moment you left. I have a feeling more than one person reading this has had exactly that happen to him and is either still in the middle of it or has learned the hard way what truly has been going on. I remember years ago a friend from Scotland came to Pattaya. He met a bar boy and fell for it. He was in love. He forgot that nobody really falls in love that quickly and no bar boy is going to fall truly in love with a farang customer in such a short time. Sometimes people forget - a real relationship develops over time. Falling in true love in just a few days is fine for the movies, but in real life it doesn't work that way. There, of course, have been exceptions, but few and far between. I was with them the day my friend left to return to Scotland. He was staying at the Ambiance in Pattaya. The boy was there too while my friend was waiting for the taxi to the airport arrived. He wanted to give the boy a lot of money to go to a language school for English lessons. I tried to talk him out of it, but failed. I got him to at least give me the money and let me directly pay the language school. He agreed to that and the boy acted very excited about being able to learn English. Meanwhile, when the taxi arrived my friend and the boy had a tearful farewell. Then the farang got into the taxi. No sooner than the taxi rounded the corner at Second road the boy tried to get me to give him the money. Of course I refused. A day or two later I took him to the language school, paid the school for his lesson program, and that was that. A few weeks later I received an Email from my friend asking me to check with the language school about the boy's progress. It turned out that the boy did go - for a grand total of one lesson. Then he told some story to the school, got them to refund the money, and disappeared from Pattaya. I never saw him again. And I'm the one who had to break that news to my friend. He doesn't go to Thailand at all any more. There are so many stories. Another of my favorites was the boy who carried around 5 mobile phones, 5 different farang. Another one - Maybe some of you remember the lady-boy manager at Corner Bar. He was getting financial support from 2 different farang. Then his nightmare happened. Both of the farang showed up at the same time for a 2 week holiday. I don't know how he managed to successfully pull it off, but he juggled things around and got away with it. Neither farang had any idea of the existence of the other one. (I hope neither of those farang are reading this . . .) In other words, be careful. Think with your head, not your crotch. And do not - repeat: do not make any promises. The safest thing to do with the boy of your dreams is to enjoy every moment with him, but whatever you do, don't give him your contact information, especially not your Email address. When it is time for you to go home, give him a very generous tip, thank him for a fabulous holiday, and goodbye. Anything more than that and you too could easily fall into the trap. If he does manage to contact you - maybe via LINE or an app - just ignore it or block him. Do NOT respond. He'll stop once he realizes he's not going to get any money out of you. One of my favorite "make me cringe" things I hear farang say - "Not this boy. He's different." Yeah, right. This is a good time to once again post my all time favorite quote - The Richard Burk Philosophy: "If you want love in Thailand, rent it."