Londoner

And one of our posters uses on over-seventies track....I wish I could find it!

I've heard some odd things about the lives of khatoeys in rural Thailand, such as the acceptance of khatoey -only beauty contests in schools and the visibility of young, very young ones. I'm talking primary-school age. And what about khatoeys doing their service as monks? anyone seen this? I have a clear memory of seeing two barely-pubescent khatoeys near Silom. And I am told that there is private language that they often use....a little like Polari which UK posters may recall. P's cousin, whom I've known for sixteen years, is a ladyboy- well he is now. When I first met him he was a cute and rather feminine boy. Over the next decade, he transitioned slowly but surely into a khatoey, though without the surgery. He was mamasan in one of Pattaya's "men for ladies" bar. My last two dinners with them both revealed him as rather feminine gay man again. And I've just heard that back home in Nakom Sawan, he's khatoey again. An interesting life but rather expensive when it comes to clothes and make-up.

I think we'd all agree that no mb should be forced by his mamasan to go with someone with whom he doesn't feel comfortable. I've consistently found Thais to be scrupulous about their own cleanliness.

If I owned a straight bar- God-forbid- I'd be wary about letting my fellow-countrymen in after what I saw once in Soi 6. On my first visit in '95, I'd clutch in my hand a copy of Michael Nottcut's "Thai Scene" wherever I went. This provided the only written advice- and it was d**n good advice - that I had received about how to enjoy the bar-scene and how to treat the guys we meet. So how do first-time tourists learn if they haven't access to such advice? Common humanity perhaps , but somehow I'm not sure whether Indian visitors even have access to any gay sites about Thailand in their own languages. I have my own reasons for getting very hot under the collar when our hosts are mistreated and I won't excuse lack of manners or humanity....so what is to be done? From what I saw in July, the some hotels and businesses depend on Indian customers.

One thing that surprised me about my July visit after two years plus away was how dominant Indian tourists were in the South Pattaya district. And how few I saw elsewhere, such as in the JC, the malls, the restaurants and the beaches. They seem to like being in groups, invariably male-only, and usually between the ages (I guess) of between thirty and fifty. They seem to do a lot of just standing around. How did they spend their time in Pattaya? Certainly not in gay bars- as far as I could see. Any ideas? and, by the way, there are a number of Indian restaurants in the South Pattaya area which, when we passed them in the evening, were entirely empty. Where do these guys eat?

I haven't been to Koh Samui since 1998. I was single then and, although I liked the island, the boat trips and my hotel on the beach, five days was enough and I was thrilled to arrive back in BKK. The gay scene was barely visible, though the lady boy scene was....too visible for my taste. You are right; you'll need a friend. P and I have booked-up for March. I'll be interested to see what changes have occurred in those twenty- five years.

That's excellent advice. I recall only two occasions during my Butterfly Days when I incurred the wrath of mbs; both of them claimed that I'd promised to see them and failed to do so. Some guys are short of money and live day-to- day and so their sensitivity on this issue is understandable. I learnt to be more careful with my casual remarks.

HiV? Treatment yes, but cure, no. A lifetime disability, even with the best treatment. The risks are probably low but practitioners should be aware.

It's available on Amazon. UK posters may recall the Gay Men's Press which, sadly, closed about twenty years ago. It had a superb list of gay novels, many of which are difficult to come by now. Davidson's book is more about his travels as a journalist than his sexual experiences... his time in pre-war Germany is particularly interesting , as are his dealings with the UK government in Cyprus when he bravely revealed the torture our forces dished-out . The sexual escapades are mentioned rather than described. Its the autobiography of a journalist who was gay rather than of a gay man who was a journalist.

Thanks.... interesting. I wonder how much of pre-mass tourism to Thailand (if any) had a sexual motivation? In his autobiography, (The World, the Flesh and Myself) the journalist and foreign correspondent Michael Davidson found a more welcoming attitude to his sexuality in Asia (specifically Bali, Malaya, Burma and Japan) than in the UK. I have heard it argued that there is a religious element to this, in that far-eastern faiths are less masculinity-orientated than the monotheistic ones which dominate the West and Middle-East.

The Bangkok sex-scene which so many enjoy ( and yes, I know the Thais were doing it well before us) owes its success to the American soldiers on R &R from Vietnam, turning Khun Patpong's banana plantation into...well, whatever it is now. And then, requiring a beach as well as bars, Pattaya from fishing village to Commercial Sex Capital of the World. Indeed, where would prostitution be without the contributions of soldiers on leave? or just running away? Sensible warriors, like Alexander the Great, took the brothels with them on their expeditions.

Yes.... Lucky S, that's the one. As far as Soi Twilight is concerned, a couple of years later, it had Chardonnay, Blue Star and a couple of others opposite (New Man?) plus a short-time hotel. In that glorious, first trip I took to BKK, it was where I had my most interesting times. Blue Star was unique in that it had two separate troupes of gogo dancers, one very twinkish, the other more manly. They took it turns to strut their stuff, combining occasionally for a naked show. I recall that the twinks were often shy and kept their hands strategically-placed while the other guys let it all hang-out. Blue Star was where I dropped my wallet and was chased along the soi by one of the waiters who returned it to me. An unexpected and significant moment because, thereafter, I was impatient with falangs who claimed that the guys we meet aren't trustworthy.

It's because my life is boring here that I strive to get away from it....to Thailand!

Yes, me too. It occurs to me that our younger posters will look at the map and turn green with envy when they see what was available. long ago. What the map doesn't show of course is that the hosts in the bars were more eager and welcoming and that the go go dancers actually danced. I agree with floridabob that we are fortunate to have better technology now- not that I am able to use it- but, bluntly, it doesn't compensate for what has gone for ever.

AKA Khun Bar. I think it had dropped the "sweet cigar" title. Perhaps a response to Bill Clinton's (alleged) proclivities. I suspect this subject may be boring some readers and so, as a final comment dragged unwillingly from memory, I recall that the name of the bar in question was related to that of Super A. You know, like Super B......

There was indeed; and a guy there has the honour of being the first ever Bangkok guy that I offed. The bar was in the soi leading to Super Lek....I think. Surely there must be an old-timer or two who can inform me as to what the bar directly opposite Super A was called?. A further memory. I bought the Michael Nottcut guide in 1995 for my first visit to Thailand. The sleazy bar was given a detailed description. About three or four later an up-dated version was published which I still have. The bar in question is not mentioned.

I remember Super Lek but it was farther along the soi and , as GWminUS says, had shows. The one that Michael Notcutt, the estimable author of Thai Scene mentions was directly opposite Super A and was under the same management. I suspect that it was long gone by 2003.

Wasn't there a bar opposite, with the same ownership, back in prehistoric times? I recall it being considered even more sleazy than Super A in my Thai Scene gay guide circa 1997.

Super A was the first bar I left without finishing- or even starting- my drink. It was 1997 and my first ever visit to Bangkok. In those days, if memory serves, it was upstairs, above its later location. At the signal from the mamasan , as I sat down-the only customer- the guys, about twenty of them, removed their briefs and started pleasuring themselves. They were doing it for me, for me alone. Embarrassingly, I was the centre of attention. It was all too much for an innocent newbie such as me and so I made my excuses and left.

Yes, he was. And his gay forum, Baht Stop was quite different to the others available, often straying into politics. I enjoyed contributing. He was an American Pattaya ex-pat, as I recall.

Not just the haters; think about the preachers- many but not all in the US- who make millions from gullible and often not every well-off communities- in order to buy their own private jets. Of course, some of them also need money for their encounters with rent-boys in seedy motels. Before glorifying homophobia in their sermons.

Although, like Ruthreiston, I was brought-up in a Christian family, mine was challenging and tolerant. My father was appalled by the Charismatic/Evangelical movement and, in particular, refused to accept the literal truth of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament with its violence and genocide. "God gave us brains, " he told me, "and we are expected to use them." Accordingly, he expected me to question what I was told, whether it be by politicians or by preachers. There's no chance that I'd have been rejected had my parents known of my proclivities, only disappointment because it would deny me the support of a family as I grew older. I was taught that "Amor Vincit Omnia"- love conquers all, something that our wealthy mega-church preachers may like to consider. I chose not to reveal my sexuality out of deference to their love for me. I still attend Church, a famous London one renowned for its music and its association with Palestinian Jerusalem. I believe much of what I hear there, but not all. This would please my dad. My closest friends aren't Christians. One is Buddhist- of course- and the other is a Muslim. They are both devout. I learn from them; perhaps they have learnt something from me. Like all of us, I've made mistakes in my life and have regrets. However, my sexuality I consider to be God-given; a blessing. Sadly, it took me forty-five years to come to terms with it. I don't believe in an After-Life, at least not in the traditional sense, but if I were to face St Peter at the gates of Heaven I think it likely that one thing in my life would be met with approval; the constancy of my love for P amid eighteen years of challenges and difficulties. The fact that this love is between two men would be irrelevant.

An item on Thiger referred to a Thai nose spray, newly available, which claimed to offer some protection against Covid. Has anyone come across this?

There must be something wrong with me...in my straight days, I didn't like cunnilingus either. It must be my Methodist up-bringing.

Thais don't have the same reactions to sexual practises as we do. When in Rome.... I do recall however, a guy from BBB offering me a rimming-service back in the late 90s. I was shocked....for heaven's sake, I'd only been having vanilla gay sex for four years at that time! At any rate, I turned him down. Come to think of it, I'd do the same now.