Londoner

Don't forget the impact of shame on the part of parents who can't feed their children. A "real man" makes sure his family eats; if he doesn't he loses his sense of manliness. I recall a few years ago when I was back in Palestine that a Gaza father saw his children picking-up and trying to eat a discarded, rotten orange because there was no food in the house because of the siege. He hanged himself.

Recent news from Pattaya suggests that the distribution of free meals to the unemployed is facing the problem that the givers are struggling to maintain their generosity. I doubt whether the government will be able, or willing, to step-in make up the short-fall. Over the centuries and all over the world, extreme shortages of food have led to social unrest and Thailand has a long history of dissatisfaction with military and right-wing governments.

I've always taken the opposite view. With one guy, in particular, he came to me strongly recommended by an experienced expat but for me could do nothing. He seemed disinterested and withdrawn. He had come on time and wasn't rude or aggressive; we just didn't connect. I took the view that it may be that my style just didn't work with him....my friend was much more out-going than me. Perhaps had I been more assertive and demanding sexually and socially, he'd have pleased me as much as he pleased my friend. And after all, had I just informed him that I would that I would to him what I wanted to do, he may well have submitted. That was just not my style. I always sought a connection. I gave him the minimum of the time (1000) and let him go after twenty minutes of failure. There are two more aspects to consider; firstly, the possibility of a public scene which I'd be very bad at dealing with. And secondly- speaking as one of the alt-Right's snowflakes- who knows what his situation was? There was genuine hunger fear of losing rooms at the time of which I speak; 1000 was nothing to me. Possibly it was vital for him.

I understood that Babylon was soon to close ( I read this somewhere before the advent of the coronavirus) and assumed that it would never re-open. Accordingly, I'm rather pleased with this latest news and, while I have no desire to go there under these conditions, I am hoping that it will one day be a sauna again. To be honest, unless I need to be in Bangkok for a flight, a visit to Babylon is the only reason I stay a couple of days there.

Vinapu is right but we older guys (or at least me) fear that soon, travel to Thailand may be beyond us. The months of sanuk we are missing now may not be available.

And I'll there too....as long as the vaccination is validated in Thailand. With all the research taking place all over the world, I foresee competing claims getting in the way.

It is astonishing that this still a topic of discussion. In some ways, it is a remnant of the west's imperialism; everything is OK for us at home due to improvements in treatment, so why consider those benighted parts of the world where, for some, Hiv is still a death sentence, or at least involves a lifetime if struggle?

The efforts to find effective vaccinations for MERS and SARS were unsuccessful. It may be that better treatment may be the best hope.

Very true, assuming we can believe the figures. My boyfriend's province (Kamphaeng Phaet) has barely been touched and yet he has observed the lock down conscientiously, including not going to the hospital when I wanted him to. I suspect that maybe Thai citizens have obeyed the restrictions better than we have here in the UK. However, what surprised me the most is that the ratio of deaths to infections is much higher here. I assume the treatment offered is comparable, so why? Some have suggested that Asians have developed some sort of partial immunity following other epidemics like SARS and chicken 'flu. Possible?

My hopes and expectations change by the hour. There has to be a confluence of four issues for the trip to proceed; the level of infections at home, the flight itself (including immigration), the situation in Thailand and the availability of insurance. I'm hoping without confidence for October.

Agreed, but surely if there are vacancies and a down payment is offered we wouldn't be turned down? My concern is that I could leave LHR perfectly fit but, after twelve plus hours on board, pick -up the virus. On Monday, two hundred Thais returned home and a worrying number (twenty?) showed symptoms of fever at BKK. I can't be the only one who has often picked-up a bug on that journey.

Would you want to be responsible for another's infection? However effective today's treatment is(and people are still dying from hiv related diseases- it remains a life-changing condition . The falang visiting the gay scene in Thailand is usually the older, more experienced and often the wiser party; we have responsibilities. And the major one is to not take advantage of a guy who needs our money and so takes risks. There have been hundreds of thousandsof infected men who have never engaged in anal sex. Don't kid yourself.

I'm not sure that "revived" is the appropriate word. Patrong was dead on my first visit in 1998, alarmingly so to a first timer. I've visited five or six subsequently times-admittedly never in the highest of the high season- and have only seen it busy on Youtube. It is also expensive and I suspect that the workers may find their living expenses higher than in Pattaya and this would be a major concern for them.. I enjoy it as a tourist destination but the gay scene I find depressing. Perhaps the apps are more successful....I don't know Another issue is that Pattaya has a fair number of gay expats who play their part in the bar-scene....has Phuket? I really don't know.

There have always been more go go and host bars than the clientele can support. Even in 1995, the year of my first visit, there were bars in or near Boyztown that were almost empty and had closed by the time I returned. It was the same in Bangkok, Patong and Chiang Mai. And that pattern continued for twenty plus years. In Jomtien, of the twenty or so host bars (yes, I counted one evening) there were three or four that were always empty when I looked apart from a couple of bored hosts. A culling of bars of 20, 30 or even 40% would be very sad for the owners but not necessarily for the staff, who would find employment elsewhere, and certainly not for the punters. Everyone knows that a vibrant, busy bar draws customers, just as a vibrant, busy soi does.

There are two of us- one stuck in his farm in Kamphaeng Phaet district, and one marooned in South London- who are desperate that vinapu's prediction is accurate. It's the longest we've been apart in nearly eighteen years. October is our target month. At the moment.

I am always amazed by the resilience of the Thai people. I remember seeing vendors standing in eighteen inches of dirty flood water selling fruit from their stalls near Tuc Com. And the absence of other opportunities to make money to feed their families is likely to ensure the same outcome when the restrictions are lifted. I've been saying all along that I hope to back in October but, frankly, I'm beginning to lose hope. The South Korea incident is particularly disturbing.

I can understand that, but if you'll forgive some self-pitying, I and others are now at the stage in our lives where we haven't much more time to be with our loved-ones. I am very fit but even for me, the journey to Thailand becomes more difficult by the year and there will come a time, I fear, when it will be too much. My June trip is canceled and my October one threatened; those are experiences irretrievably lost. That's why I may be tempted into a trip later this year which, were I twenty or even ten years younger, I'd put-off until it was 100% safe in terms of the coronavirus....if that were possible.

A trial period is essential. At least six months, preferably more. I considered it sixteen years ago when the pound was worth 73 bht. I'm pleased I remained in London and continued to travel for holidays, grateful that I could afford to do so. Returning to your question, one of the major issues for me was exactly what you mentioned. I only knew one expat (he has since died) and, to be blunt, the posts I read on a gay forum (not this one) suggested that I'd never fit in. Some of the attitudes were genuinely appalling to someone who has lived in a liberal, multi-cultural city all his life. I appreciate that this was not true of others but feared that expat life may not be for me. So you are right to take into account what sort of social life you'd have in Pattaya, as well as obvious things like finance, weather, health and the political situation, remembering that if you sell-up at home, you may find it financially problematical to return if things don't turn -out well.

But what about flights into the US?

A wise comment. How many of the world's population can afford to support someone in a foreign country? how many here in the UK? I've sent a lot of money over the past fifteen plus years; never have I had to make serious personal sacrifices in terms of my own comfort. I count myself lucky, particularly n view of the happiness P brings me, even in a twenty minute LINE call. Of course, he would propose the Buddhist view that in fact, he is doing me a favour by allowing me to "make merit"....or something like that!

My boyfriend lives 40km from Kamphaeng Phaet in a very rural location. He has been maintaining social distancing assiduously and doesn't downplay the significance and perils of what's happening. However, his local area's stats for infections and deaths ( assuming that official figures are correct and we can't be sure of that) indicate that there have, so far, been few cases. He was recently in hospital after a snake-bite and saw no signs of a serious pandemic. ....I know, this is just anecdotal. His reading of the situation is that restrictions will, to some degree , be lifted shortly. Perhaps not in Bangkok, of course. And once that starts happening, the tourism industry will be clamouring for the return of its customers. Wishful thinking? perhaps....we are missing our May/June trip and want to meet up in three or four months.

I force myself to be optimistic. Much of Thailand has not been hit hard and the government will be determined to lift restrictions as soon as possible. Tourism is too important to be ignored and spoon is correct; a two week quarantine ensures that tourists don't come. The hotels will be banging on the government's door to ensure that the borders are open as soon as possible and the flow of tourists turned back on. I don't think Travellerdave should give-up on September.

Separation is hard for all of us but it is has always been part of human life; think of the families kept apart by war or by the demands of work. In these circumstances, we must accept that those we love may well depend on us and to continue to support them. And it's easier for us to do so now that we are globally connected. When I first met P seventeen years ago , it was much harder....even mobile phones weren't always available. I bought him his first one in Tuc Com, then only a quarter of the size it it is now. Now we can talk anytime we like by phone or on LINE. So I'm grateful, even if sometimes I feel sad when we finish our conversation. On a positive note, I'm confident that in four so months we shall be together with our loved ones.

The correct Trumpian term for non-believers is "libtards." I should know; I am one.

Yes, the "old" Babylon provided an experience far better than we can expect today. Admittedly, I never worked-out how to progress from one floor to another due to its odd room and staircase arrangements but, as PeterRS suggested, there were more opportunities for us to meet with cute and willing guys. I also liked the roof-top bar with its views over Bangkok. Of course, it helped being fifty rather than seventy!