Londoner

Insh'allah, as my friend in Palestine always says to me. "By the will of God." Yes, at Christmas we may well be thinking that soon we shall be escaping a cold, miserable home and finding warmth in the embrace of a lithe Thai guy, with smooth skin, opal eyes....etc. And then, we shall be able to say the next favourite of my friend; "Humd'allah. "Thanks be to God." It really is possible. Isn't it?

Perhaps the vaccination programme is intensified. Perhaps gay travellers return in decent numbers to Thailand in January. The bars are open, the apps are once more flourishing, the guys have returned. But how many visitors will return to their previous life-styles of frequent sex with different partners? and if so, will they require evidence of vaccination? or even the wearing of masks? I saw one such encounter on a porn site recently.

A fascinating thread...thanks , everyone. Reading the precis, kindly prepared by CurtisD, led me to consider , yet again, the eighteen years I've been with P. and in particular those periods of mutual incomprehension that were a feature of our early days. Line by line, I recognised what appeared to be puzzling aspects of this relationship and our attempts to explain to each other (mainly in Thinglish) what was going on. And how our struggles were likely replicated in many such relationships. A couple of things. Vessey is spot-on about the friendship groups that sustain the guys, particularly those who've just arrived. P arrived in Pattaya twenty years ago with two bosom pals. In times of plenty, they partied; in times of hardship, a lucky one who had enjoyed an off shared his winnings among the the three of them. Although he is now comfortably settled in his longed-for farm up in the north, he looks back at his three or so years as a Pattaya MB with nostalgia..... something that astonished me at first. He didn't mind the sex- even with people like me- but he loved the comradeship. Secondly, CurtisD reports that the study claims that guys from the country aren't clued-up on the hazards and prevention of Hiv/Aids. Not so in P's case. He was taught about this at school; even the famous banana/condom lesson was given.

Kangaroo and crocodile too, I think. I remember that its caneton a l'orange was particularly fine. And well-priced. As well as (it's all all coming back to me now!) a New England chowder. Opposite Royal Garden.

Wasn't there a restaurant in 2nd Road, years ago, that offered ostrich steaks? I think it was called Paradise.

If I were to date now, I would certainly ensure that my companion wasn't straight, as far as is possible. I know that some of us prefer straight or macho guys; indeed, a few specifically reject gay ones, claiming (quite wrongly , in my view) that they are effeminate. Some, and only some, are. I am not claiming to take the high ground on this and I'm certainly not denigrating those who feel differently but, for me the very idea of having sex with a guy who finds physical contact with a man unwelcome seems unwholesome. I wouldn't have expected a MB actually to enjoy his congress with someone of my age (despite my being staggeringly attractive!) but for a straight guy to submit to my demands seems just plain wrong. I suspect that this is a barely rational view to take but that's what I felt after a few years exploring the scene. I would add another aspect to this; I found in my butterfly days (when I must admit I usually chose on looks above everything else) that the truly gay guy performed better and that I wanted, expected and paid for more than a partner who merely laid back and thought of Thailand. Eventually, I only offed gays.

Good luck. I am envious but at the same time grateful; a few gay tourists putting their feet in the water and then telling me that it's warm and safe enough to swim in will persuade me to book a trip...in January.

Thanks : even a precis as short as this has identified several issues that have repeatedly arisen during my nearly eighteen years with P. I must explore further.

I try to be optimistic and so am heartened that the infection rate has stopped rising and that vaccinations are increasing. As for the resilient Thai population, I recall the sight of shop-keepers in Pattaya Tai standing knee-deep in flood water to continue their selling; I suspect that the moment restrictions are lifted we will see a similar determination to resume business. And to put my money in the till.

Brazil is open because its deranged President doesn't believe in Covid. Anyway, he needs more time to complete the destruction of the Amazon rain forest. Accordingly, the death rate rivals that of Florida. However distressing the situation is in Thailand and however incompetent the junta is, at least it's not in denial. In other words, one day Thailand will recover and, if Bolsonaro stays in office, Brazil won't.

".....hardline young protesters...?" I'd have thought that the Thai elite were the the "hardline" party in this conflict, bearing in mind its refusal to respond appropriately to demands for democracy and human rights.

He's probably good at jungle warfare....which is what his training and career prepared him for.

I hope that when (or if) Thailand re-opens, prices in hotels and restaurants remain the same as last year....not forgetting that the recent drop in the value of the baht puts cash in our collective pocket!

Hotel prices in Thailand have been amazingly good; anyone living in London, or other European cities, knows that that the cost of a 2* or 3* hotel here would pay for a 4* or even , in certain situations, a 5* one in Thailand. Eighteen months ago we paid about 2000 baht a night for the best beachside resort in Krabi. That sort of money wouldn't even pay for a guest house in the UK. As for restaurants, it's difficult to spend 1000 bht per person on the food even in the up-marketplaces in Pattaya. P and I invariably eat well in Thai restaurants for well under 1000 bht for both of us. A Macdonald's for two in London costs about 700.

Carpe diem.

There is of course the Trumpian approach; if judges provide unwelcome decisions, appoint different ones.

I think that's "invasive" rather than "intensive" interrogation.

Eminently sensible demands, in my opinion and consequently doomed to be ignored. Poor Thailand. Still, good to see that the young are still struggling for justice.

This is how military juntas behave. It is just that- a junta- not a government. In fact, in some ways it has benefitted from Covid in so far as it put a lid on the street protests. And we all know that if, through an act of God, Covid disappeared tomorrow, the restrictions on dissent would remain. I sometimes wonder if the junta (like Bolsonaro and Duterte) may not be bothered too much about the epidemic. It's a perverted version of Rome's "blood and circuses"....it keeps the populations' collective mind off such minor issues as poverty.

To be blunt, the gay scene in Patong wasn't much cop on my first visit in 1997. Pre-app , of course. In the far-off days of a vibrant Boyztown, it offered a preview (on reflection) of what the future held for our beloved Pattaya.

I remember my first gay guide ("Thai Scene" circa 1996) suggesting that "well-dressed" joiners at The Oriental should have no problem. Isn't there at "jacket only " policy at their famous La Normandie restaurant? It'd be fun to take a money-boy there and see the result.

Apologies in advance for yet another reminiscence of doubtful relevance....but does anyone recall Blue Star in Soi Twilight, circa 1996? Two separate troupes, one macho , the other twinks, both of which appeared au naturel a busy periods? I particularly remember a couple of the twinks who were not proud of their parts so that they'd appear with their hands strategically placed. A bi like in a "Carry on" film. Those were the days.

Sansuk did when it opened. I don't know why it stopped......thirty guys paying 100bht each is better than ten paying 270. As z909 says, London saunas are depressing places for us. I'm not sure that I'll ever return, particularly to the one he mentions.... which I recognise.

I'm prepared to pay a higher price if it subsidises younger guys, the majority of whom cannot afford Babylon or Sansuk prices. I never understand why saunas (and this includes those in London) don't try to increase the number of customers by allowing younger guys in at rock-bottom prices. They'd increase revenue from older guys too, I suspect. No wonder so many have closed here over the past few years. As far as Babylon is concerned, they offered half-price entry a few years ago when the pool was out of action; the numbers of younger guys ( and I expect older ones, too) this attracted was astonishing. They must have made more money at those prices than when the pool was open. It reminded me of the Golden Years at the old location.

All is revealed! So that's where the young Thais and Asians went, leaving Babylon for the likes of me.