Londoner

I'd be interested to hear how you came by those figures As far as bars were concerned in my bar-cruising days, the price code for a guy you take off remained "up to you". And I've not seen, even today in my rare visits as a spectator any lists, other than those for bar -fines.

Don't forget to try the saunas....Babylon in Bangkok and Sansuk in Pattaya. I'm sure you'll be popular and it'll be free!

Correct, traveller123....and a firm grip in my arm as we negotiate Pattaya 2nd road. This makes me smile since I live in London and am far better at crossing roads than my country-boy partner!

Whall....no. Marginally better but that's all.

The real rrun -off is when I approach an entrance with the intention of going in and the doorman rushes ahead, clapping his hands. I know then that the guys are sitting around playing with their phones and have to be woken-up to put on a show for me. My heart sinks. I wish I could walk out like some do in this situation but I'm the victim of my up-bringing; my mother would have declared such behaviour "rude."

Each year low season seems lower than the one before in terms of visitors. I've just returned home from Pattaya and my impression is that this one is particularly bad. Sunee was almost deserted- at least the host bars were.I don't know about the go go bars. Boyztown was much the same as last year. Quiet but interesting enough. One thing that had changed for the worse was the number of guys on Planet Romeo; perhaps 30% down. I suspect that is partly due to the increased popularity of Hornet. The malls were quieter too; fewer Chinese groups, the Russian influence barely discernible. Expect fewer British visitors now that we've become Little Britain and our currency pays the price.

I was in Pattaya last week. I don't visit go-go bars much nowadays ( I hate being the only customer) but of the four that I saw, Cupidol was by far the best for twinks.

I really don't wish to continue this on a board that I enjoy reading for pleasure but I can't let that sort of remark pass. It is a simplification of much more complex situation. The first khatoeys I ever saw were the trans dancers in Marrakesh, Morocco,who have been clanging their percussion instruments for generations untroubled in the Square. And it was the same country that UK and US gays visited in the 50s and 60s , decades before Thailand was available, to live a gay life, as tourists and residents. It was the Sufi Iranian poets of the 12th and 13th century who were writing erotic love poetry to male lovers, when, here in Europe, such poets would have been burnt. And it was in Bagdad, a century later , that gay life- not that visible- flourished. Yes, things have changed with the advent of fundamentalism but you need to ask why. It's not the Koran that changed but the impact of our western colonialism on societies in the MiIddle East which led to a reaction. And religious fundamentalism happened in other ways in other societies for different reasons....look at the US evangelicals, the Jewish Zionists, the anti-Rohingya Buddhists and Morsi's Hindus in India., That's my last word on this subject on this board....as it happens my mind is on where to eat tonight here in Pattaya.

Just because a religion is non-violent, it doesn't mean that its followers behave in that way. And not just religious people; there's the secularists like Stalin and Pol Pot.... also pretty adept at killing non-believers.

Buddhists massacre Rohingya and Tamils though....and when it comes to violence, Christianity and Judaism are also used to justify violence. Homophobia is rife in all the major religions of the world.

The very late noise is specifically from Cafe Royale's karoake nights, when guys bellow at full volume with scant regard to the melody, to an empty soi at 0300. None of these occasions (for want of a better word) during my stay there. I still use ear plugs though.

i'm a regular at Ambiance and , since the "open" bars have....opened, I've found the noise a real problem. However, it has much improved and my last visit was problem free. I like to think that the other business owners in the soi (I understand they meet as a group) persuaded Cafe Royale and Castro to cut the noise levels to a more reasonable level. Perhaps they even read this forum. So Vinapu is absolutely correct.

The answer, for me, is in the previous posts. In 1997 I found Paradise quiet (compared to Pattaya) but tolerable. Subsequent visits, of which there have been five, confirm the fact that the place is depressing in its lack of "buzz". Now we go to Phuket to enjoy other activities, of which there are plenty. On my last visit (two years ago), the only time I in Paradise was for an afternoon massage.

Paradise was dying in 1997, as I recall.

I've met a number of Thai guys who are "into" older men. Some of them have never had sex with someone of their own age, they claim. It's possible that the respect paid to the old in Asian countries is partly responsible for this....I've never come across it in Europe.

A few questions for those of you in Bangkok....as you can see,I'll shortly be joining you. Which of the gogo bars in Si Twilight are currently presenting the best selections of twinks? and which of them (if any) are pulling in the punters? And are the host bars busy? Is Scorpion still predominantly Vietnamese? Thanks in advance for updates.

Were the naked swimmers Thai or falang? Makes all the difference, you know......

Under the pillow.

The cleaners at Ambiance are charming....they always have been . Very fast, very efficient. They are on duty until 1700 (I think) and very accommodating so late risers would have no problems. I always tip cleaners in Thailand- I thought it the usual practise to do so. Perhaps it isn't everywhere. The first time I left a tip in my Bali hotel recently I received a note of gratitude- in excellent English.

A friend of mine stayed at Copa a couple of years ago on the top floor. In many ways it compared very favourably with the equivalent at Ambiance. ...it was newer of course. I thought the rooms very well-appointed It didn't suit him in one important aspect; it is more of an serviced apartment than a hotel. He preferred the security that Ambiance's reception provided when it came to visitors. There is a Reception at Copa but it is not so well-manned. And of course, the Ambiance has a restaurant and room service. I'm sure that the hotel to which Vinapu refers is Serene. I stayed there in the 90s; very cheap. It must be by the quitetets hotel in BT due to it being set back from the soi.,

That is true. Best to ask for a room near the lift.

I was at Ambiance in February and return in a few weeks. My only complaint is the noise from the open bars- particularly the early morning karaoke which Traveller Dave enjoyed so much. And there's nothing the staff can do about that. I can tell you that the management (and the previous management) hate it....judging by the lack of customers at the bars, so do most of us.

Of course, one of the ways we falangs can escape these repetitions is to learn Thai. Ever tried it?

Yes indeed....passed on from father to son- in some cases literally.

In my experience, May and June are the lowest of the low season; business picks up a little in August. Twenty years ago, there was a significant difference between high and low. That difference is more likely nowadays to be reflected at restaurants ....some popular places in Central have queues during the high season. Any difference in the gay areas seems to me to be in terms of the clientele....in the high season there are some younger guys. The number of people in my age -group remains much the same. After all, most of us are happily (or very happily, as in my case) retired.