jimmie50

Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing it. What you say is very true regarding it is all very transactional and based around money to date. I readily admit at this stage it is an infatuation or obsession vs. true love. I suppose in a perfect world I would imagine it to become more about love and less about money. Realistic? Probably not.

Until this discussion, I didn't think about legal vs. illegal ramifications that might impact me directly. Definitely food for thought. I am well aware from what I have seen first hand in Jomtien and heard from those directly affected by police shakedowns in Bangkok that the key seems to be financial gain for the police. We have probably all heard or read stories about how corrupt the police are. The question that comes to mind in this situation...how would the police know that I was aware Cam's current status was illegal or overstayed...whichever the case may be. And yes, when he came to Thailand he was legal with appropriate visa. He has not returned to Cambodia for fear that he would not be able to get back into Thailand and continue working until they have enough money for the new house. So I am not sure if that classifies him as an 'illegal' or in the 'overstayed' category. Regardless, how would the police be able to prove that I was aware of his status? I suppose there are any number of ways they could create a 'just cause' for holding me. If not harboring an illegal or fugitive, then perhaps hiring a prostitute. Interesting points to consider for sure.

OK, would someone please explain to me about the Bangkok Hilton? I'm confused.

This was my thinking as well, which is why I assumed I would need to pay an off fee to the bar for the duration. But it seems like such an arrangement is possible according to other forum members. And, of course, this would have to be something Cam agreed to as well. Perhaps it is an understanding between the two parties and the bar is not privy to that information. The bar boy is polite but discreetly declines any off invitation. I would be very upset to learn that Hotmale, or any of the bars for that matter had a quota system for the boys regarding a certain number of offs. Just the idea of that pisses me off! (excuse my language)

I'm sorry if this sounds foolish or stupid...but how would I get the Visa card to him? I am guessing this would be something I purchase in the states and then would mail to him? Not sure about the mailing of the card or how exactly to get it to him.

Was re-reading this entire thread and came across your post. Somehow it didn't register with me when I originally read it. At least according to Cam, his family is under the impression that his job is in construction. It was originally when he first arrived in Bangkok, and had proper documentation. He said they are not aware of where he works now or what type of work it is. If this is actually true, I doubt he would mention 'the foreigner' to them so probably no nagging for money.

OMG. Really? I had no idea I could be charged like that. Thanks for the warning. I am planning to rent Airbnb this time. I don't want to see if the condo is available because I don't want my friends to know I am actually back in Bangkok. I don't want to spend 3 months in a hotel, either. Regardless of Bangkok, Pattaya, or some other location...it will definitely be Airbnb or similar type arrangement. I am aware of the situation in Pattaya, especially for the illegal guys working in the massage shops. Firsthand experience with that. I am also aware of a couple of the bar guys who are illegal getting the 'shake down' from Bangkok police. Walking down the street during the daytime where Foodland is located, stopped, and threatened with arrest and deportation unless they gave the police all of their money. Wanted 10,000 Baht from each one, but they neither had that much. One guy had 7000 and the other 4000. Police took their money. That happened during my seven week stay, so recent police activity seems to be targeting illegals.

While most of my experiences have been very positive, I have reported on a few that were not as pleasurable. I certainly did not enjoy Phoenix or Magic Touch. I can't say whether they see me as a 'mark' or easy target. Having worked with the moderate to severe special needs students for 30+ years, my philosophy has always been to treat everyone with dignity and respect. This is how I treat the guys I go to for massage and that I might invite to join me from the bars. If that makes me a target or mark, then so be it. I am not going to change who I am. That does not mean that I am going to believe everything that I might be told...hook, line and sinker. I am guarded about believing everything I hear. And yes, I am less so with Cam. I have just sort of throw caution to the wind with him. I didn't go to Thailand to find love. Been there, done that. Twice now. I simply went to experience and explore the gay scene and have a good time. Love was the last thing on my mind. Is it love with Cam...it certainly is an infatuation. I will acknowledge that. But there is a big difference between infatuation and love. Love is something that grows deeper over time as two individuals get to know each other. One week is hardly time for the love to develop and grow deeper. This is why I want to return and spend the longer period of time with Cam...to see if it does develop into a more serious and deeper connection. I certainly don't think your comments are harsh or mean and did not take them as such. I appreciate all of the feedback from forum members. Hearing different points of view and perspectives is what I need right now. Let's be honest...rent boy or prostitute...correct terms for the guys. But what about us...john, trick, punter, whoremonger...are also correct terms. It is what it is. I know where I met him, how I met him, what he does and what I do. That doesn't change the fact that I have feelings for him. By sharing here I am trying to sort out those feelings so I don't fall off the cliff. This forum is my therapy, my sounding board, my sanity.

As has been pointed out...Cam and I have really only spent maybe a total of 12 days together between my trip last October and the most recent trip. I do have a sense that he is somewhat honest. I really had not considered the sponsorship seriously, and didn't realize part of the negotiations for this type of arrangement could include limits on what they can do with other customers. I guess in the back of my mind I didn't think the bars would be ok with guys making such arrangements as it might impact their business. Perhaps I just overthink these things too much. If Cam were to agree to just drinks with customers...no off's...if I were to provide a monthly stipend...I might be open to such an arrangement. Trust would be the key factor, as you have pointed out...and we haven't really spent enough time together for me to know. While I want to say 'yes, I trust him completely' and go full speed ahead, I don't think we have spent enough time together to develop that level of trust. Hopefully, after spending three months together I will have a better feel for that. The guy in Pattaya with four sponsors sounds like my ex. Why we are no longer together. Seems during his travels for work he had something going on the side in 4 different cities...juggled five of us with nobody knowing about the others until it finally caught up with him. Once the proverbial cat was out of the bag, that was the end of the relationship for me as we were supposedly monogamous. What I do know is this...while I have met a number of nice guys and had some great fun...the only one that I think is honest and that I could trust is Cam. As far as the others go, I only believe 1/10th of what they have told me and know the minute I walk out the door they are on to bigger and better things. The next trick is just around the corner...so to speak.

The young man I met back in October who works for K-bank and was asking for a minimum of $500 USD monthly salary was easy to walk away from and laugh at such a request. Interesting that you mention providing him with a tip for long distance work. I hadn't really considered that as work, but I suppose from his perspective he may just consider it part of the job. No idea about that. He does text regularly, we have had a couple of video calls, and a couple of serious discussions. These do make me happy...interesting point you make. I don't plan to offer any assistance, and some of the financial stuff is just me doing stuff independently without his involvement or knowledge so that if and when a request does come up, I can decide then if I am willing to help and I will have a general idea of how much and how I can get it to him. You can probably tell I am an A-type person. I am also a curious person by nature, so some things I am aware of because I asked general questions when we were together. That is how I know he doesn't have a Thai bank account. Why he didn't get one when he was in Thailand legally...not a clue. Didn't ask him, and he didn't offer an explanation. I would venture to say he probably regrets that now.

I know...I'm all over the place on this at the moment. Hopefully things will settle down and I will develop a clearer picture of things. Appreciate your comments very much.

I have another general question about my situation for members... Assuming the 60-day stay remains in place by the time I return to Bangkok in the fall, but my plan is to apply for the 30 day extension so I can stay a total of 90 days, should I purchase my airline ticket with return to US after 60 days or 90 days? I have been looking at 90 day return flights, but don't want to raise any questions or have problems on arrival in Bangkok with immigration. I won't be able to apply for the 30 day extension until the 60 day entry is almost up. Plus there is no guarantee it will be granted. Recommendations?

I am certainly open to exploring other places in Thailand. The problem is going to be how to get there. Air travel is probably out of the question without proper documentation. Wherever we end up going would need to be accessible by car or bus from Bangkok. That is why I was focusing more on Pattaya, as I know I can hire a car service to drive us there without any problems.

As I just replied to @mauRICE, at the moment I have way too much free time on my hands and am spending most of my time thinking about Cam, checking out return flights to Bangkok, looking for Airbnb's, etc. Probably am in the overthinking mode at the moment. Beginning tomorrow my daily routine will be back to normal and very busy. Hopefully that will help me take a deep breath and chill a little. I only have experience paying the off fee to the bar is for short term with guy from Banana Bar and with Cam at Hotmale. I made an assumption that if the off fee was a set amount per night (500 Baht), it would be the same regardless of how many nights you took a guy off. Just goes to prove what they say about 'assuming' things. Thanks to comments like yours and other members, I now realize this was way off-base and not how things actually work. At the moment, I am leaning more towards what @hank75 suggested, and that is to negotiate with Cam what he expects in the way of compensation for three months and then let him deal with the bar and his job situation. Simply remove myself from that part of the arrangement. That is between him and Hotmale. That said...anyone have any suggestions on what a fair and reasonable compensation would be for 3 months? I am sure he will throw out some astronomically high number. I want to be fair, and don't mind being a little generous, but also don't want to be taken advantage of. Willing to help out more in the future if we truly do become a 'couple'. While I have enjoyed the company of quite a few guys in Bangkok, I am pretty much a one person guy when it comes to relationships. At least for me, I won't have a problem giving up visits to massage shops and my past extracurricular activities. lol. I cannot speak for Cam, and we haven't had that conversation yet. I know he enjoys having a drink or two with his bar friends. I certainly don't mind getting together with his friends. Whether he will want to include me in that will be another story. We went to all of the various shows...but that was just because it was something to do late in the evenings. Not something he insisted on doing. I just knew based upon his routine working in the bar that going back to the condo too early would be a problem. I often was the one who suggested going to the show as a way of passing time...not him. I do believe his actual circle of friends is very small. While he does know a fair number of guys from the various clubs, he tends to just hang out with other guys from Cambodia. Just an observation on my part. These are the people he seems to be closest to, regardless of which bar they work in. Some of them he knew back in Cambodia, and his roommate is also from the same general area of Cambodia where his home is.

You are absolutely 100% correct. I need to take a long, deep breath and slow things down a bit. Part of my problem is at the moment I have way too much free time on my hands. My body clock is just now catching up to being in Denver, and I have not gotten back into my usual routines. Beginning tomorrow that will all change, as the rest of my week is very busy with little down time. The focus of all my thoughts on the return trip and up until this moment have been entirely on Cam. Regarding support...I am not really looking to support Cam. As you said, he was doing fine before we met, and he will continue to do fine with or without me. As of this moment, he has not specifically asked for anything other than compensation agreed upon for the time we spent together in Bangkok. The original agreement was 3 days/nights for 10,000 Baht. When it eventually ended up being 7 days/nights, we never actually discussed a change in compensation. In the end, I gave him 25,000 Baht. Was it too much...no clue. Some here will think it was too much, others may think it wasn't enough, and some may think it was fair. Did he send the money home to his family? Again, no clue. That is between him and his family. While I would hope so, those are his choices and decisions to make. I did not offer to send him money on a monthly basis over the next several months, nor did he ask. However, based upon my previous experience and stories from other forum members...I am expecting at some point there to be some sort of crisis or emergency situation and a request for assistance. This is why I am researching now what options are available for sending money to him. While he hasn't asked nor have I offered, our conversations have included discussions about how to go about doing that if the need ever did arise. That is how I am aware he does not have a Thai bank account and uses his Cambodian bank phone app. Not sure how he actually sends money to his family. I haven't asked that question, nor do I really want to be involved in that. Anyway...the entire question about how to send money to Cambodia is typical me...wanting to be prepared in advance...anticipating that the request will eventually come. Having used Western Union in the past for various other things, I have an account with them and assumed it would be easy to transfer to a Cambodian bank account with them. It appears that is not the case...no bank account option available. Since he obviously is not in Cambodia, there can be no cash pick up option at local agent. Thus my request from members for other options. Just want to be prepared.

Appreciate the bluntness, and totally agree it is excessive. Certainly not in favor of turning over a huge sum of money to Hotmale just so we can spend three months together. This is precisely why this forum is so great. I am gaining the knowledge and insight as to a better way of dealing with the situation based upon others experiences. I would much prefer to give the money to Cam, which he in turn can send to his family. The longest time he has been booked would be a 5-day trip to Phuket and several days to Pattaya with previous boyfriend I mentioned in another post. Anything else has been short term other than the 7 days with me. That was an unusual situation in that originally it was only three days but things happened. We handled the additional days on a day by day basis with mamasan. Again...this is all based upon what he has shared with me. In reality, he could have gone anywhere with anyone for any length of time and I wouldn't necessarily know it. I raised the question initially because I didn't know how the arrangement would work with the bar. Does the guy arrange that, do I make the arrangements, what is the cost factor...all unknown to me...so I am learning as I go in this situation.

Good point, and I did mention to him we could stay in a different part of Bangkok...didn't have to be Silom. I know he loves the beach, so possibly Pattaya, but he is a little concerned about traveling around Thailand given his status. I think there is safety in familiarity.

I have a general question about this situation that I need some assistance with. First of all, Cam has not asked or even hinted at me sending him any money. However, I would like to be able to occasionally do that for him over the next several months, and also in the event of any emergency situation that might come up. He obviously does not have a Thai bank account. He has no official Thai photo ID. I cannot send him money via Western Union that he could pick up at the local office since his only form of identification is an old ID from Cambodia. He does have a bank account in Cambodia. I did a test run to see if I could send money to his bank account via Western Union, but that option does not seem to exist. Western Union only offers cash pick up at a local office in Cambodia, or mobile app called Wing. Does any forum member know how to send money to a Cambodian bank account? I do have his bank information, including SWIFT Code, Account number, Bank address...so if nothing else I can do an international wire transfer from my bank to his bank. But there must be another way or easier solution. Any suggestions?

I don't recall if it was something I read on the forum or something I heard someone say in the bar about they like to keep the same number. If it is important to him that he keep the same number, I certainly do not mind a tip to mamasan to guarantee he will keep that same number on his return. Compared to a bar off fee or compensation for bar earnings, a tip seems like a drop in the bucket. lol. According to Cam, the bar gives the guys 4 days off each month. Instead of off fee for 90 days, we would only need to pay for 78 days...and he felt like this daily rate could be negotiated into a monthly fee with mamasan. As I said in another post...this is all a work in progress. The only thing set in stone is that he will not be working at the bar during the three months. We are both in agreement on that much. Details are in the fine print...tbd.

Since I am new at this, I wasn't sure if I would need to pay the off fee to the bar on a daily basis for the duration of time he would be with me. That is why I posed the original question to forum members. I would much rather give him the off fee directly. We started to have this conversation last night. Not sure where we will finally end up, but he at least knows and has agreed that he will not work at the bar during the three months. That much we have confirmed. The specific details or arrangements are a work in progress at the moment. He likes the idea of the money going directly to him instead of Hotmale. However, he is concerned that if he makes up some story, i.e. going to visit family, death in the family, wedding, etc. and then he is seen around Silom with me that it will create problems for him at the end of the three months. I understand his concern, and don't want him to do something that makes him feel uncomfortable. So, like I said...a work in progress.

I would definitely classify my situation as complicated. We actually have used the word 'boyfriend' when referring to each other. Not sure if there is something similar in Cambodia to godson and godfather, but if there is, he didn't mention it. At the moment, I just want to get through the next few months. I cannot begin to imagine 10 years from now. Not sure how often we will do video call. It's nice to just see the other person sometimes. Also don't know that we will text every day. That will partly be due to time difference and schedules, as well as language, but he also doesn't like texting that much. One of the quirky things I learned about him over the last 7 weeks. It will take us some time to figure out likes and dislikes. As @floridarob said, if we make it to the 3-year bar, it is possible we have determined at least some of our likes and dislikes. Getting to the three month bar is the major hurdle at the moment. I am thinking more along the lines of 3 weeks. lol.

I don't really have a problem with the fact he has been a sex worker. Let's be realistic about that...it is how we met in the first place. What should have been a one night trick back in October was etched in my mind so the very first club I had to visit was Hotmale to see if he was still working there. Things kind of mushroomed from there to the current situation. Based upon my previous relationships and experiences, I don't believe I would ever use that against him. I simply am not that type of person. He did what he needed to do to support himself and his family. If we were to stay in Bangkok, I would not be surprised if we ran into former customers. Not sure if we are in Cambodia how much of a factor that would be...but still possible. Both parties bring a past to any relationship. I've shared stories with him about my relationships. He even knows a little about my adventures in Bangkok this trip before I started to curtail those activities as things got serious between us. As for forum members...already know of at least one who was part of the group of 7 at G's for dinner who has been with him before. Was not an issue. I think it is important for both of us to be able to maintain contacts and friendships that were established before we met. Where I would have an issue or problem is maintaining any type of sexual relationship. We would both need to be able to set boundaries with former sex partners that it would strictly be a friendship moving forward...nothing more. Probably sound like an old prude at this point. lol.

I've had two long term relationships during my lifetime. Both were monogamous...until they were not...which is what ultimately ended the relationships. I wasn't looking for a relationship when traveling to Thailand...simply looking to explore and have a good time. I certainly did my share of that. Had I not gone on this adventure in the first place, I would have never met Cam. The situation is really like a double-edged sword. From my perspective, having fun with my various escapades changed once the switch was flipped with Cam from just having fun to something more serious. I no longer had that desire to play the game and started to pull back from my other companions. I was happy and content with Cam, and him with me. The switch inside me flipped from party animal back to the monogamous mode. Not sure if that makes any sense or not...still a work in progress.

I had no idea such an arrangement was possible. While we did talk about my concerns regarding his job, we didn't really discuss alternatives at the time. I wasn't sure I wanted it to be like a sponsorship arrangement. We did talk about what his monthly expenses were and what his goal was each month to send to his family. That gave me a general idea if I decided to take on that responsibility. I would prefer to spend the money on him, as well, rather than pay the bar a 3-month off fee. I just assumed that was the only way to guarantee his number and job. You know what they say about assumptions. lol. Sounds like I need to have a serious conversation with Cam about this. Keeping the same number might not be important to him. I know he has had other offers and opportunities to go to different bars, but he prefers and is loyal to Hotmale. He would want to return there if it was necessary.

To be honest, I think I could be tolerant and more accepting of this than I am of Cam going off with other men from the bar. That is the real hang up for me in this situation. Trying to work through that and will need to either make peace within myself about his job, or be willing to help build the new house for parents and we both go to Cambodia. As you can tell, my thoughts are all over the place at the moment.