Min

Yep, I was there Wednesday night, sitting inside with a boy I left around 10.30 pm.

Sexually, I don't think it would make much difference (if any). It's all about recognition and prestige (the same way an LV bag gives you class even though it doesn't necessarily function any better than a 20$ bag), especially when it's time to write a few more chapters in your Once-upon-a-Star memoir

Not to mention the rent should be much cheaper than the other places. Did you off the tall boy wearing dark blue shorts and sleeveless T-shirt? (He was the only one not in underwear, kinda cute but with attitude)

They would all have to learn it the hard way I guess but better late than never.

Wow, I really should try this I do like listening to people's stories as long as they are willing to share.

Actually I saw quite a few contestants with some kind of marks and scars in this contest. The most noticeable one should be this

Watched a show in M2M. Again, enjoyed it very much. I also wanna see again the dancer, who blowed me away (figuratively) in the previous trip. He's still great, moving like a gayish ballet dancer with a lot of energy and oozing charm. Guy is obviously not the kind of twinks I'm usually into (a bit mature and a bit big). In other words, his look is not really a turn-on for me. But somehow, I can't take my eyes off him when he performs. I even picture this crazy scene: off him and watch him dance in bed for an hour But when he drags, the whole package looks really disturbing Before show, I messaged a boy asking him to come and join me in M2M, and we can go to my hotel later. He replied "I don't want to go in there". I then asked if he can go to my hotel the next day, he said "Could you change hotel. I don't like Jomtien Complex" and only agreed to meet when I explained my hotel is close to but NOT in Jomtien Complex. This is the second time I saw this Jomtien-phobia thing. Right before Covid, a boy I had before (one of my memorable offs) turned down my offer for a repeat because that time I stayed in Zing. He made it very clear: If Jomtien Complex, I not go. Those two boys have something in common: pretty young, gay, have a regular job and only do this to earn extra money. I can't figure out why they hate Jomtien Complex (I asked but they wouldn't say). Any thoughts? So the next day, after an afternoon session with the boy who hates Jomtien, my boy quota for the day was met. Evening, I went to Winner Boy bar just to watch boys having fun in underwear. There were 9 boys working that night (one already got offed before I arrived) and 4 or 5 groups of customers, most of whom sat outside, only one inside with two boys. I bought drink for the first boy who approached me and we got talking. Little did I know, I got to hear his life story for the whole next hour He's from Bangkok, 25 years old, gay, vers top, started his MB career at Kawaii go-go bar in Boyztown when he was 17 (that means he was underaged and had to, his words, "run" whenever the police knocked on the door). His met his farang (French) boyfriend, now ex-bf, when he was 19 and the other 58, and stayed in that relationship for 4 years (show me his arm tattoo with his ex's name). It sounds like it was serious as he brought the guy home to meet the family (show me pictures of the boyfriend taken with him and his mum) and they even discussed the possibility of same-sex marriage. He didn't know why they broke up but the ex now has a new boyfriend back in France (show me pictures of a cute Caucasian teen whom I would totally off with the permission of the said boyfriend). Note to self: try to find cute boys who used to have farang boyfriends because they speak good English. During the course of their relationship, boyfriend rented him a room, told him to quit his go-go job and also not to let other boys stay with him. But he kept working without the other knowing because, he said, some months boyfriend only sent 10K and the room alone already cost 8K (it was a nice room), he didn't have enough money left for food and other stuff so he had to work. Boyfriend visited him three times each year, stayed roughly a month each. Whenever he visited, they had sex every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, it was too much for him, especially because he had to bottom while prefer being a top. It looks like the boyfriend was also a bad influence on him in the way that the former drank and smoked heavily. He said he was drunk all the time whenever the French guy visited and also became a chain-smoker himself. Now he can cut down on drinking, but couldn't give up smoking despite trying. Then he cheated and got a Thai boyfriend, who stayed with him in the same room the French rented for him. Once they video-called and the farang got glimpse of the other boyfriend, he got jealous. Next time they video-called, he made the poor lad go around the house with his phone camera, even into the toilet, to prove that there was no one else in the house Then he cheated some more and got another farang supporter, who also sent him money every month until he died of Covid. I asked the boy if he prefers Asians and he said "sure, any time". Without taking into consideration financial support, he would go for Asian boyfriends only. Anyway, back to his stories. Difficult times came with Covid. He went home to his mom for one year, then couldn't get along with her new boyfriend-cum-business-partner so he left and went back to Pattaya. Stayed in Winner Boy bar with 4 other boys for almost a year. Although his boss tried to support them as much as he could (providing accommodation, food ingredients and cookware so they can cook for themselves) and occasional customers who came to off them secretly from the closed bar, there were days he had nothing to eat or even had to pawn his cell phone to buy food. He gave a lot of credit to his boss, saying "we survived because we have a good boss". Now he moved out and can afford to have his own room but it's still difficult. He only had one customer in the last two weeks. The current room rent + utility bills cost 2.5K, he needs around 200 for food per day and another 100 for cigarette, so roughly 12K per month to live on. Back in Kawaii days, he said, he earned a lot of easy moneys, many days with two offs and customers were often more generous than the 1500ST/2500LT standard rate (now, he's willing to go ST for just 1000). He said he spent all that money on visiting karaoke host bars often having as many as 4 or 5 boys sit with him in one session (he's gay after all). So it's that funny cycle: he spent money from people who liked him on boys he liked, he used the support from his farang boyfriend to support his Thai boyfriend. His farang boyfriend f*cked him who in turns f*cked his Thai boyfriend (the so-called boy-on-boy-on-boy arrangement). I noticed that he talked about cheating quite nonchalantly like it was just the way of life, a fair exchange, not something morally wrong or shameful. This is the first time I digged into a Thai MB's complicated relationships with multiple partners-cum-supporters, so I don't know if this also speaks for others. He concluded his story, saying with regret: I used to have a lot of money, but I didn't save. Now I learned how to save but I don't have much anymore. It was 10.30 pm when I left. The bar was empty of customers except for one blond-haired farang sitting in a corner with a new boy who just showed up for work today (24 years old, nice ass, very sexy and revealing undies). They did something quietly for more than an hour, ordering several rounds of drinks and the boy later took a large tower to cover certain parts of his body (under-the-table activities under way I presume). Most boys also left (probably no hope for more customers to come). The only waiter (a chubby Thai with highlighted hairs in his mid-30s) nodded off in another corner. Boy told me he's the owner's boyfriend (who's 61, sitting outside with the only remaining boy) and they have been together for 13 years. My soft drink was 90, boy drink was 150. I gave the boy 500 for his time. I would see him again for other activities. The boy has good genes. Despite everything he had been through, smoking, drinking, Covid and all, still look quite boyish with a lean, supple body. To a Westerner, he may look like he's still in high school who took to wearing underwear as his uniform.

I once offed a boy from Power Boy in Sunee. He was 19 years old at that time, tall (more than 1m80), lean and smooth, playing basketball in high school, so basically model materials if he gym-trained right. A couple of years later, I ran into him on Hornet. He moved to NAB but told me NAB charged a lot for both bar fine and boy fee (a few thousands each, if memory serves) so don't go there. Just contact him directly if I want to off him again.

So you are a fan already

I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if the first guy (the Vietnamese one) did go with customers. After all, he and his boyfriend do have an onlyfans account, which means they basically sell their own porn for a living. Here are some samples if you are curious https://igay69.com/ho-vinh-khoa-rhonee-rojas-2021/

So the one I thought was the manager is actually the owner, and Mena is the mamasan who often helped me with offing a boy (his name does strike some bell).

= 25 offs

Why don't you try Le Meridien? It became my hotel of choice in Silom after two stays there.

Not my intention. I just said that to see how the boys would react

To give you guys some ideas how much it would cost to spend time with some of those high-profile models/actors, here are some ads from a Vietnamese pimp who specializes in celebrities. Above is a well-known Vietnamese actor/model who had a lead role in a very popular Vietnamese BL - Lost in Paradise (link to the movie's trailer at the end of this post). To chat with him (for 45 minutes) would cost you 400$. To LT him: 12K $. Below is another ad for a Malaysian actor/model (25, 1m85, 75kg, 20 cm). To ST him (no more than 2 hours): 10K$ The pimp also promoted a Thai actor (some members here may know him as he had a lead role in a classic Thai BL The Love of Siam, the boy on the left in the poster below) when he visited Vietnam about 3 years ago. I couldn't find that ad, but I remember he was even more expensive.

Feel free to ask whenever. I will repeat in this thread some tidbits I already shared about Viet MBs in various threads to make it easier for future references.

2. So around 8.30 pm, I reached Boyztown and first looked into Toy Boys. They only had three boys in total, all in boxers, two were talking to each other, and one standing at the door greeting customers. Since there were no customers yet and the mamasan in question was no where to be seen, I couldn't come in to ignore him so I left and decided to visit one of the soil's beer bars. The three beer bars currently in operation in Boyztown are Pikky, Serene and Panorama, situated right next to each other and in that order (from Pattayasaisong Road entrance). Both Panorama and Serene had virtually no customers at the time, while Pikky, the smallest one - just a quarter the size of Panorama, already had quite a few. It was not hard to see why: they had around 10 twinky boys, many of whom I found cute while the other bars had only one or two staffers on duty. So I sat at the Pikky bar, their front table, to watch the soi traffic, which was typically light on a Monday night. Ordered my drink and invited two boys over, one Thai and one Lao, both of whom I already knew from the apps. Thai boy used to work in Winner Boy bar (the one I mentioned in the Winner Boy bar thread a few weeks ago: he came to work and stripped down to his undies just to pull up again to go with a customer). He's really skinny and small built, gay and bottom-only. So just to tease him, I asked if customers ever asked him to top. There was one before Covid, a Chinese woman, who was into small-boy looking types. He told me, he didn't want to go because he knew he wouldn't be able to perform, but mamasan kept pressuring him, saying the customer would pay as much as 10K. So he went and of course, couldn't get it up (he also admitted he has a rather small "tool"), and hence, had to use his fingers (showing me his fingers while telling this - they don't look like they are great tools either). Probably because of that, he got "only" 5000 instead of the promised 10K. At that point, Boyz Boyz Boyz started their boy parade, which was put on pause for the last two years. Thai boy said they just restarted yesterday and it was not just BBB business. It's more like Pride parade and all the bars in the soi pooled their talents (the banner-carrier drag queen is actually Castro's staff and there were more than 30 boy participants), but the boys in Pikky stayed out of it because they were shy. Then there was a smart-dressing elderly farang in wheelchair, who wheeled himself in. Now it's Lao boy's turn, who got an off from that customer, volunteered to share his experience. He said the guy was paralyzed from waist down and didn't take off his pants. The boy just worked second base up, nipple playing, kissing and all. Having heard something I probably shouldn't have, I look at that farang with admiration, thinking: when I reach his age and if I ever were in a similarly unfortunate situation, would I still have it in me to keep going and enjoy life like that? To the gentleman himself and others, it was probably a patronizing thought, but it was inspiring to me. Lost in my thoughts for a while, until Lao boy brought me back to reality, asking "Are you okay?" Although Thai boy's look appeals more to me, I kinda connected better with Lao boy (also gay and bottom vers), who is more observant and also speaks better English. While I was there, another farang customer left with three boys in tow. I watched them walking away and Lao boy, as if he could read my thoughts, said: It's not like that. He took care of them during Covid times. He said with feeling. To lighten the mood, I asked would they be okay if I off them both at the same time. Both nodded. Then I added: but you have to do each other, I'm just there to watch. Lao boy was like "What???" then said "I can't but he (Thai boy) can f*ck me". They discussed this in Thai then Thai boy burst out laughing "No way!!!" Speaking of threesome, in my experience, straight guys often have little problem with this arrangement as to them, it's just work (like you are asked to do a gay porn together). Straight boys I know back in Vietnam certain don't. Some even offer "a discount" if you take their "brother" as well. On the other hand, gay boys who are "sisters" with each other might mind. My previous offers for threesome was turned down twice in Pattaya (one in Toy Boy and another in Power Boy). In each case, both boys wanted to go with me but separately. You can off him today, off me tomorrow. They wouldn't do it if their "sister" is around. It's too weird, they said. Enough joke. I didn't intend to off anyone anyway after my session with Kiwi earlier. Gave each boy 200 and mamasan 100 as tips. My Pikky soft drink was 80B, boy drink was 200 each (they get to keep 100), off fee is 300 (boys get to keep 100), so an off means boy can earn at least 1700 from drink, off fee and his ST fee. I thinks it's fair. For comparisons, Lao boy told me Toy Boys charges 500 off fee (boys also get to keep 100). Before Covid, a Viet boy I offed from Luck Boys in Bangkok told me he earned some from boy drink but nothing from the off fee (or bar fine). On my way out, I walked past Toy Boys again. They now had 5 boys (one got offed and went with his customer to Pikky) but still no sight of the mamasan I'm so eager to run into again. Maybe another time. I took the bus baht back to Jomtien Complex. (to be continued)

Looks like mamasans to me are just waiters to you. And since you are a veteran and know the owner, they probably wouldn't want to approach you with boy tips, let alone try to cheat you out of money.

Are you sure you mean "hand"?

Why don't you guys have a threesome and share the cost

That's strange. Are we even talking about the same Toy Boys? I'm talking about the one near the entrance to Boyz Town from Pattayasaisong Road, on the left. I never met the owner, don't even know if he's Thai or farang. Might have seen the cashier but never talked to him because my bills were always handled by Mamasans or one of the waiters. I met a guy, who I believe is the manager or boss of the mamasans (Asian, tall, in his forties, looking calm and collected), on several occasions. He even asked if I enjoyed the bar. Kiwi told me there were 3 mamasans at the time he worked there but I only talked to two of them regarding choice of boy - the Chinese-Vietnamese and the Cambodian.

I think while bogus charges from mamasans are quite rare, their playing favorites is pretty common. Last time in Lucky Boys just before Covid, I tried to off a Viet boy, who I think was one of cutest MBs I ever saw in Bangkok, mamasan (who helped me with the offing of 2 other boys in my 2 previous visits), tried everything he could to stop me to the point of blatantly badmouthing the boy. I got to talk to the boy anyway in Vietnamese and kinda understood why. Boy was popular because of his look and his participation in the Big Cock shows, so customers kept asking for him no matter what, and he didn't care what Mamasans were thinking and more importantly, he never paid them any cuts. Two boys I offed previously are both Thai and each gave Mamasan 100B right before they left with me. I had a feeling that the Toy Boy owner might be aware of this (it had been going on for years) but didn't do anything about it. Probably because he can speak Chinese and helped them deal with Chinese customers??? A year before Covid, when I didn't see him around, I asked the Cambodian mamasan friend and he said that guy lost his job because of many problems. Now it looks like he's back again.

Good, I may try them again next week

As mentioned in my first post here, I'm a long-time follower of this forum (going back around 15 years, on and off) but rarely posted anything because from the great fountain of information you guys shared, I don't think I have anything new to add. Once I started sharing (just three weeks ago), I found that I do and should have done it many years ago Although Jason1975 says I should write trip reports, I'm not really up to a full report so I just share tidbits of my Thailand trips and occasionally take a chance to give you some info about Vietnam's scene too since I'm mainly based in Vietnam. I gonna start this tidbit thread with stories about a cheating mamasan in Toy Boys. This week, I came directly to Pattaya from the Bangkok airport (using Nam taxi, 1000B, they gave me detailed instructions of how to find the driver: Arrival Hall, walk outside and find Entrance No 3, then look for a car plated XXYY). Staying in AIYAREE PLACE just across street from Jomtien Complex (spacious room with a double and also a single bed, which I can use for massage, a separated space with room apparatus, arm chairs and table, perfect for working remotely, swimming pool and small gym, included breakfast buffet and also 400B hotel credit for lunch/dinner in the in-house restaurant with a pretty good selection of Western and Thai food, all of these for just 1100B/night, also no problem with guests to the room) Chatted with a boy on Blued for a massage deal. If I'm gonna meet a guy on app, I prefer if he can do massage and if I can just book for massage only first (in case the guy shows up and looks totally different from his picture). This guy seems professional with his itemized price list (shown in the picture). Some members may know him too (the one who keeps promoting his own laundry service all the time and I find it quite cute. He showed up, and just one look at him (small-built, slim fit, smooth skin, boyish look), I know I'm gonna follow up with some after-massage services. He's indeed professional, bringing everything (water-proof tarp, towel, a selection of massage oils, relaxing music, he just forgot candles hehe). He also speaks decent English (used to have some foreign boyfriends from China and Japan), so we chatted a lot during the session. It turns out he used to work in Toy Boys in Boyztown about 4 years ago. My first visit of the bar many years ago left quite a bad taste in my mouth. I was greeted by this mamasan, who is Chinese-Vietnamese and can speak Mandarin, Vietnamese, Thai and English. It felt so good to talk to someone in my mother tongue in a foreign bar, so I sought advice from him about everything. It was my last night in Pattaya and I liked 2 boys so decided (a first for me) to off both of them. Mamasan presented me with a handwritten bill including my drink, boy drinks, bar fines, boy's tips (1500 each) and also a charge for bar's short-time room (400 per boy). He told me he collected the boy's tips in advance just for safety and that even though I don't use the short time room at the bar, they still charge for it as a rule. I guess I was really naive at the time and probably trusted the bastard too much because he's Vietnamese too. To think that I even gave him a decent tip for all of his "troubles"! Only when I was back to my hotel and talked more with the boys who spoke rather limited English, I found out that the short-time charges were totally bullshit. If I didn't leave town the next day, I would come back to the bar and raise the issue with the management. The next time I set foot in the bar (6 months later), I simply ignored that mamasan who recognized me instantly, refusing to speak to him even for seating or bill paying (kinda passive-agressively you must think). I became friend with another mamasan from Cambodia and had no problems since then. So back to my massage, I asked Kiwi (the boy's nickname) why he quit, and he said he didn't like the working enviroment there and especially the mamasan, who cheated him out of his money so many times. Of course, it was the same guy. Turns out he cheated the customers and he cheated the boys too. Kiwi told me that many times that mamasan dealt with a customer (especially someone new to town) 2000 for ST and collected the money in advance but told the boy that the customer paid 1500 so the boy got back 1400 (minus his cut of 100). Kiwi said he never thought about asking the customers how much money they actually gave the mamasan. He only found out about this almost one year later, when a customer showed him a picture of the same handwritten bill I got, and funny enough, including the same bogus short-time room charge I had. Kiwi also said even though he gave the mamasan his standard 100 cut every time, that one still tried to steer customers away from him (because some other boys would give mamasan 200 or even 300 cut), like telling the customer who wants a bottom that Kiwi only tops (FYI he can do both but prefer bottom position), or even saying that you need to be careful because he's kinda bad boy etc. Kiwi, too, only found out about this through customer feedback, and his story brought back another bad memory. That night, when I pointed to one of the two boys I later offed, who was standing quietly like a church mouse in a corner, Mamasan did say that boy only goes with lady customers. But because he was totally my type, I waived him in and later found out he's gay and can bottom (another red flag I should've paid attention to but I was too excited to have my first threesome ever at that point). Back at the hotel, I asked him why Mamasan said he only goes with ladies, he said he didn't know and he never went with women customers before. Back again to my massage. Job done, I'm happy with the massage, after services and also the enlightening conversation we had, and gave him 2000 even though he only asked for 1500 tops. Also because of this, I decided to go to Boyztown that evening and visit Toy Boys again (I walked past them a couple of weeks ago and saw they just re-opened with that cheating mamasan standing at the door), just so I have a chance to blow him off again hehe. (to be continued)

Quite a good number. I was afraid they were bleeding talents to other bars.