macaroni21

@floridarob please convey my thanks to reader for all the new information, even if conveyed indirectly through you.

..... speaking of which, the plastic 20s and 100s are not an improvement. They tend to stick together.

I wasn't in the least suggesting that. I had written "imagining yourself to be that foreign advisor". My point rides on your keenly observed notes* about what you're seeing, and how culture and social practices are deeply ingrained in a society and inextricably intertwined with the realities of governance (or lack thereof) the physical environment. Too often, foreign experts are parachuted into a country to advise on economic development, business consultants parachuted in to increase corporate efficiency -- and also, journalists are parachuted in to "describe" a country to outsiders -- but they have no idea what they're up against. I have often been appalled at how impossible and inappropriate their advice has been. You, on the other hand, planned or unplanned, have planted yourself within a hide (note: British English) as it were, with an unparalleled view of real life. *keenly observed notes much appreciated and highly instructive. Others (like me) benefit from your observations without having to put up with squat toilets, spotty internet and mosquito nets 🥰Thanks for being such a hero.

That may help, but I suspect only to a certain extent. I say this because @NoNameFanBoy also reported that the photos were inaccurate - something that would be rather uncommon among other shops of this nature (based on my experience). Inaccurate photos are a management responsibility; it suggests that the problem goes beyond the boys themselves. One possibility - and I'm not saying this with any in-depth knowledge of culture or youth - is that the boys you chose were relatively young? It has occurred to me that the slightly more mature service providers (25 and above) are less likely to offer an uninterested service (all things being relative of course), and this is not just in Japan, but other places as well. Based on the occasional similar mention in this forum, I think others have noticed this too.

Thanks for the (ugly) details of those sessions. Indeed, I would be furious by the tenth minute. I think all of us who have been in the sex-buying scene for some time would know exactly how you feel because we would have had similar experiences, hopefully infrequently. Waste of money is one thing but as @floridarob says, anyone on a short visit would be particularly incensed by the waste of precious time. Whilst I agree with @a-447 that it is quite un-Japanese, at the same time, it was super useful to learn of this experience from you. It reminded me never to over-generalise any country's sex industry - meaning that if we ever imagined that all Japanese shops provide superior service because, well, they're Japanese, then we would be as foolish as thinking that all of country X's sex services are uniformly bad simply because it's country X. (I've seen comments here, for example, saying all Vietnamese are pushy and provide poor service, which simply can't be true in such an across-the-board way.) Some members here have said they still prefer the gogobars rather than order massages from online photos because one can see the boy (in the "flesh") while in the bar before committing. I think we can understand the logic behind this.

Your observations are very useful. It reminds me of a something I read about years ago in a book - I cant even recall the title, it's been so long - about economic development. What it said was something to the effect that many technocratic planners and advisors (usually from the West or the World Bank) fail to see that economic development isn't just a matter of building infrastructure or attracting investments with tax breaks etc. It often involves changing an entire country's culture, e.g. punctuality, sobriety, reporting for work (or opening your shop) when the holiday is over, and changing a society's value system such as saving for the future rather than spending for the pleasure of immediate consumption; valuing education and good health over status-spending, etc. Not to mention eliminating a culture of corruption ingrained among bureaucrats, which springs from a deeper culture of gift-giving, mutual obligations, social rank, and so on (I wish I could remember the more precise words the book used) You could spend your time imagining yourself to be that foreign advisor: how would you even begin to change the culture that you are witnessing?

Could you be more specific? How many boys have you had from this shop? And in what way(s) did they fall short of your expectations?

It was only earlier this year when I reminded myself to spend all the remaining banknotes I had with the old king's visage. It was beginning to look strange that I still had those notes.

Wow, even tips can now be paid electronically. The days of the anonymity of cash are passing. Soon Big Brother will be able to track which knock shop we visited, whom we fucked (or were fucked by) and when. And we're only one data breach away from privacy death.😳

I wouldn't genealise across all of Latin America. Pure European descent is actually quite rare now in Brazil. Although the Brailian population is said to contain about 60-70% European genes, in fact the number of people who are at 90-100% European genes (what we normally mean by European descent) is pretty low. My guess? Under five percent, though there are concentrations in the southernmost parts of the country. Don't take skin colour as any indicator. A light-skinned person could be 50% African ancestry + 20% Native American. He might have light skin, but look closely at the eyelids or the thicker lips and the extra-curly hair, and it tells you a lot more.

It's hardly exhaustive, but I can think of four broad reasons: Firstly, the topline numbers In 2025, Brazil received something over 9 million international visitors. Thailand received 33 million, nearly four times as many as Brazil. Assuming that the gay sex tourist is a similar fraction in each case, then Thailand receives about four times as many gay sex tourists as Brazil. It stands to reason then that there are more people interested in the Thailand Forum than the Brazil forum. Actually, you haven't seen the half of it. Other members here have reported that there exists very active fora in the Chinese language that discuss the gay sex scene in Thailand like what we do here. In other words, if you think the Thai Forum here is active and there are plenty of people following, double your estimate - this relates too to my next point below. I won't dwell on safety, but it makes a huge difference in a holiday between being able to go out and party late into the night, or having to stay in your hotel and only using Uber if you want to go anywhere. Secondly, more variety and more to discuss Having followed this forum for years, I've noticed differences in the substance of discussions among the various countries (but here, I'll speak only about Brazil and Thailand). For Brazil, the threads tend to be more directly focussed on sex, boys, dicks and maybe where to stay and difficulties with visa or mobile roaming. If one looks at the threads in the Thai forum, there are noticeably more discussions about venues (and I will come back to this in a moment), culture, relocation, and even relationships. More specifically about venues, there are just so many more in Thailand, with yet more we hardly ever discuss about in this forum. By contrast, over in the Brazil forum, these is the lament that in all of Sao Paulo, popuation (20 million?) there is just one main garoto sauna (Lagoa). No doubt, that is an extreme example, and not exactly true, but it serves to make a point. To a degree, this also reflects the way sex is organised in these countries. Quite literally, sex is organised in Thailand and less so in Brazil. Paid sex tends to be venue-channelled in Thailand, whereas in Brazil they are more freelancer-based. That creates the opportunity to discuss venues and how their channelling (their business model) operates, whereas there is only so much to say about 117 or 505 (did I get that name right?), Lagoa, garotocomlocal or mileroticos, when they don't control their boys. There are whole industries in Thailand - nonsex massage, ranging to full-on nonmassage "massage" - that hardly exist in Brazil. And as for the unique features of Brazil's venues, the interactivo clubs, well, read the recent thread about GASS in Bangkok! Thirdly, distance physical and linguistic Add to the above the difficulty of getting to Brazil. From its major source markets, it's a long haul flight, whether from North America or Europe. For Thailand, its major markets are short- to medium-haul flights away. (If you're wondering why I say this, then you're adopting a White-centric worldview). Thailand's major markets are its Asian neighbours. Asian customers in Thailand's sex venues outnumber white customers 10 to 1. It is this Asian volume that keeps the great variety of sex venues humming. Don't forget that several members participating in this forum are Asians too, conversant in English. Because of venue-channelling, language is less a hassle in Thailand than in Brazil. In Thailand, the customer communicates as much with the venue (often in English) than with the boy. In Brazil, because it is more freelancer-based, one has to communicate with the boy; the venue takes little part in the negotiations. I also have a feeling that many Asian customers have a smattering of Thai - to start with, they certainly can manage the tones better than non-Asian customers, so quicker to learn. Fourthly, the desired body At the risk of over generalising, the sex tourist to Thailand (and remember, they are 10:1 Asian) prefers a hairless body. This is rare in Brazil. Shaved bodies don't count, because they get scratchy. That said, I had one rare specimen when I was in Brazil a few years ago and another rare specimen in Colombia recently, and no, they had not waxed (I asked directly if they did). But they're uncommon, like one in twenty. Whereas the hairless Asian is the norm in Thailand. Over at the Latin American forum, what I gather from the threads I have seen is a greater emphasis on dick size. Furthermore, @floridarob has often spoken about a Latin gusto when it comes to sex. I'm not sure if I have ever noticed that difference in my few visits, but even if true, maybe "gusto" is not what the average (Asian) customer in Thailand prefers; maybe the average visitor prefers a more subtle, gradual-developing session in bed? As the same, much-valued member said in his inimitable way above, "It's Brasil, not Sunday Mass", there's an openness to sex in Brazil where discretion is more highly valued in Thailand and its neighbouring Asian markets. However, my point is a bigger one: there are real differences in what the average visitor to Thailand prefers (body type, activity tempo, discretion, etc) compared to what the visitor to Brazil prefers. It makes a direct comparison between the two destination countries a lot more complicated than at first sight.

@Travelingguy - did History ask you, at the time of your making a reservation, for full prepayment over some payment app? And if you pre-paid, how was the process?

I may be a good idea to follow the case now making the headlines in the US about a girl from Columbia University who drank with friends and then found herself in a "sexual situation". Prosecutors (and political leaders) are suggesting that others who exploited her situation commmitted an offence.

I find this thread strangely interesting, like hearing about how straight guys get aroused by this or that part of a female's anatomy, haha. In other words, nothing of the above resonates with me, yet it is somehow intellectually fascinating. I have never found any pleasure from being even tipsy, let along drunk - maybe it's just the control freak in me, wanting to retain full control of my senses at all times - and I'm no fan of alcohol. Yet, I am seeing here a desire to make oneself inebriated (at least partly) and to make the bar boys inebriated too; all the while counting the monetary costs. I guess Bangkok is safe enough for such adventures, but over the years, I've heard of two misadventures from friends of friends. In both instances they were straight. The story from the guy who went to the Philippines (can't remember if it was Manila or Subic) was particularly dreadful. Apparently, or so he believed - I have to allow for the fact that he didn't really remember events well - he was pickpocketed while sitting with several women in a bar, and then when it was time to pay the tab, he was assaulted for having no money. After several hours, some toughies accompanied him back to his hotel and they ransacked his room to find more money. Another story was from someone who went to Greece. Can't remember the details now but it too had something to do with being partially intoxicated amidst bargirls. Over at the Latin American forum, we come across reports from time to time about friends of friends being robbed after a night out, and some of these reports admit that they had been drinking. Sorry, if I sound like a wet blanket....

One member who comes to mind is @Min I like his reports, but he's dormant for long periods -- between trips, I suppose.