Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner just crushed in India right after take off. Again Boeing.

[unicorn]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/11/india/air-india-crash-report-intl-latam

"A cut in the fuel supply to the engines caused last month’s Air India crash that killed 260 people, a preliminary report has found. The London-bound plane had barely left the runway at Ahmedabad airport when it hurtled back to earth. Everyone on board was killed, except for one passenger. According to the report by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, obtained by CNN, the fuel control switches in the cockpit of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner had been flipped, starving the engines of fuel.

Investigators were able to get data out of the plane’s “black box” recorders, including 49 hours of flight data and two hours of cockpit audio, including from the crash. The aircraft had reached an airspeed of 180 knots when both engines’ fuel cutoff switches were “transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec,” according to the report. “In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so,” the report reads. Shortly after, the switches were reversed back to where they should have been, and the engines were in the process of powering back up when the crash happened..."

We may never know, but this could have been a deliberate murder-suicide à la German suicidal pilot.

[PeterRS]

9 minutes ago, unicorn said:

We may never know, but this could have been a deliberate murder-suicide à la German suicidal pilot.

Indeed, we may never know, but somehow I suspect this is not similar to the German Wings crash. Although we do not know the mental state of the two Air India piots, we did learn following the German WIngs crash that the co-pilot had quite serious mental problems which included thoughts of suicide. He had earlier been hospitalised for depression.

When searching his apartment a few days after the crash investigators found a doctor's letter declaring the co-pilot was unfit for work. As a result of doctor/patient confidentiality in Germany, the doctor could not pass any medical information on to the airline. 

Investigators also found he was taking two anti-depressants, escitalopram and mirtazapine, and a sleep medication. All were found in his body. Apparently escitalopram is associated with suicidal thoughts, especially soon after treatment is commenced. He had been prescribed this drug nine days earlier. Criminal investigators then discovered on his computer "ways to commit suicode" and "cockpit doors and their security provisions." As if this was not enough, doctors were aware that for years he had feared he was going blind. He had consulted no less than 40 doctors and feared his pilot's licence could be revoked. He should never have been in a cockpit, but German Wings did not know that in advance.

[Travelingguy]

In many ways, the preliminary findings are reassuring with regard to a safety problem with the 787.  This seems most likely to be a mass murder suicide, or less likely an accident.

The German Wings pilot flew into a mountain and killed everyone.  But when you are learning to fly, you learn very quickly that a crash on take off is usually a fatal event.  Whereas crashes on landing, especially in small planes, tend to have lots of damage to the plane, but fewer fatalities.  They teach you this, because everyone is so afraid of landing with the ground coming up to meet you.  But the take off is more dangerous and you need to respect the take off, be on your game and following your checklists and have a plan if you lose an engine.

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Travelingguy said:

In many ways, the preliminary findings are reassuring with regard to a safety problem with the 787.  This seems most likely to be a mass murder suicide, or less likely an accident.

 . . . But the take off is more dangerous and you need to respect the take off, be on your game and following your checklists and have a plan if you lose an engine.

Sorry but I do not agree with the murder/suicide theory for the very reasons i outlined in my earlier post. The co-pilot of the German Wings plane had a long history of psychiatric problems, had ingested a cocktail of drugs no active pilot should be taking, and had previousy researched suicide and how to lock cockpit doors tightly. Presently we have no reason to believe that either of the Indian cockpit crew had suicide on their minds.

The key question surely is: why did both fuel switches turn to off within a second of each other? I accept one pilot could have done it but as the co-pilot was flying the plane, it would have to have been the senior pilot who activated the switches. Both pilots denied responsibility just prior to the crash. The captain had logged 8,596 hours on the 787. It is impossble to believe that he had accidentally turned both switches off - each action itself requiring two actions. But for the time being it must remain one possible theory.

My primary concern is much more all the very major problems the 787 has experienced in the production plant in North Charleston, a totally new facility for Boeing plane manufacture. Books and endess articles have been written about this and whistleblowers have added to Boeing's problems. One whistleblower died the day before he was due to give testimony to Congress! All of which may mean nothing. But then the 787 problems keep cropping up, many just this year. The Dreamliners have been grounded several times, once when Boeing itself grounded 8 of them after discovering structural problems. More recently KLM has grounded 7 of their 787s, 30% of its long haul fleet. British Airways grounded 4 of its 787s for months, and has announced it expects to experience regular 787 groundings this year. 

Sam Selehpour, one of the whistleblowers, went public on the NBS Nightly News claiming there are small unplugged gaps in the welding of sections of the fuselge that could result in the plane literally coming apart. in mid-air.  Boeing has warned several airlines of design problems with the rear fuselage. Just this year, all airlines were ordered to ground their 787s for inspections. This is a plane that clearly seems feted to suffer major flaws. Could a computer malfunction - or indeed an unknown function as on the 737 Max crashes - be to blame? Eventually we will find out.

I often refer to the professional pilots website pprune.org but it is based in the USA and has not yet caught up with the AAIB findings.

[unicorn]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

Sorry but I do not agree with the murder/suicide theory for the very reasons i outlined in my earlier post. The co-pilot of the German Wings plane had a long history of psychiatric problems, had ingested a cocktail of drugs no active pilot should be taking, and had previousy researched suicide and how to lock cockpit doors tightly. Presently we have no reason to believe that either of the Indian cockpit crew had suicide on their minds...

Well, I doubt the evidence will ever be is iron-clad as the German Wings case, in which the evidence of murder-suicide was overwhelming. That being said, two fuel cut-off switches were flipped over, one right after the other. The other pilot became alarmed and switched them back, but too late. Any theory as to the ultimate cause has to take those facts into account. I suspect that the pilots' recent events/activities will now be researched. Murder-suicide was also postulated in that infamous Malaysian Airlines disappearance. 

Also from the CNN article: "...On the 787, the fuel cutoff switches are between the two pilots’ seats, immediately behind the plane’s throttle levers. They are protected on the sides by a metal bar and have a locking mechanism designed to prevent accidental cutoff...". So it's hard to imagine that the flipping of both fuel cut-off switches was accidental. 

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, unicorn said:

1. Well, I doubt the evidence will ever be is iron-clad as the German Wings case . . .

2. I suspect that the pilots' recent events/activities will now be researched. Murder-suicide was also postulated in that infamous Malaysian Airlines disappearance . . .

3. it's hard to imagine that the flipping of both fuel cut-off switches was accidental. 

1. Totally agree.

2. I think when it comes to the possibility of murder/suicide, both the German Wings crash and the disappearance of Malaysian 370 have a major difference: both occurred well into the fight, between 30 and 40 minutes well after the aircraft had reached initial cruising altitudes. We still have little clue about the MH dsappearance, but the co-pilot could have downed the German Wings flight at any time on the outward sector from Dusseldorf or on the return - provided the captain was not in the cockpit. He waited until over the Alps and - I suspect - the authorities might have believed it was a result of a technical malfunction. He might have thought crashing into a mountainside at full speed would destroy the black box and the VCR. Without them, they would have little clue about his computer inputs or the attempt by the captain to reenter the cockpit. Pure speculation, I fully admit.  

3.The key difference for me betwen the AI crash and the other two is that it took place only seconds after take-off. If we assume for the sake of discussion that the captain was suicidal and intended to down the plane, why activate the fuel switches so close to the ground? As a highly experienced pilot, he will have known that investigators can find out vastly more about a crash when it happens on the ground rather than after spiralling down from 35,000 ft in the air or is out at sea. Bound for London, he knew he would have to fly over water - perhaps the Indian Ocean towards Dubai and then up over the Gulf, then just off the north coast of Turkey over the Black Sea or with a more northern route over the Caspian Sea, and finally on the descent over the English channel.

Remember Air France 447, the flight from Rio to Paris which crashed into the Atlantic in 2009 after the crew were completely mystified as to what was happening to the aircraft when the pitot tubes iced up? The investigation found that this was in part a result of crew failure, but it took two years to locate the flight recorders and for the exact cause of the crash to be known. For a long time it was assumed the black boxes would never be found. For a country like India where family is so important, surely it would be a monstrous disgrace and loss of face if known that one of their number had deliberately crashed a plane? Better to do it where the one whose actions caused it are less likely to be discovered? Again speculation.

4. Which then leaves one with the greater possiblity of a technical/computer malfunction. And here the BBC's website gives us another twist. It quotes from the Report that in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin highighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches had been installed with the locking feature disengaged. It adds -

"While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product.

"The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections."

And the technical issue theories do not end here. One former AAIB inspector wonders if the fuel switches tripped due to a problem with the plane's electronic control unit. Now we must sit and await further news.

Photo: BBC/Getty Images showing the fuel switches with their metal covers 

[PeterRS]

Just for info, I realise I added to my post above after @Moses gave it a like. 

[10tazione]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2gy78gpnqo

[...]

It says in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) highlighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged.

While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product.

The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, 10tazione said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2gy78gpnqo

[...]

It says in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) highlighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged.

While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product.

The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections

FYI I think that is exactly what I wrote at the end of my earlier post - the same BBC quote although I had omitted the BBC link, so thank you for that.