24 Kaikan, Shinjuku ni-chome, Monday

[joizy]

Continuing my research, I wanted to see how 24 Kaikan was on Monday afternoon, to compare it to Friday and Saturday. I had a friend once tell me that Monday was the best day for the baths and sex clubs (when they still existed) because people who didn’t score on the weekend were looking. I wanted to see if that was true. I also thought that some places are closed on Monday, so some people might go because it’s their day off.

First I went to Thermae Yu, the fancy sento/onsen in Kabukicho. I saw a few nice asses and semi-hard cocks and I definitely suspect something goes on there, but I can’t figure out what or how. 

I left there and walked over to 24 Kaikan. I checked in a little after two. 

A lot of the shoe lockers were taken, so it seemed like it would be busy. The older grumpy guy was not at the desk, but another guy who I had never seen before gave me the usual chilly reception. (A sharp contrast to the one who checked me out, who was very friendly.) I am stressing this point because a) it’s unusual for  Japanese, and b) for first-timers, don’t let it throw you off, especially if you don’t speak Japanese. The afternoon shift seems to be especially unfriendly.

After changing, I went to the wet room. There were three people. One white guy and two Asians who I think were Japanese. I went to the back to take a shower. it seemed that most of the people who were there were Japanese, and it was very clear that they were not interested in me or the other white guy. It took me back to the 90s when I was in my 30s and in my prime and guys would run away if I moved towards them (back then I used to go to the 24 Kaikan in Asakusa since the one in Shinjuku didn’t exist). I get not being interested, but I don’t get why they have to make such a big show of it. I was sitting on one of the lounge chairs in the wet room and a guy who ran out of the steam room when I walked in got in one of the baths. When he saw me on the lounge, he turned around so his back was to the room. I was in no way pursuing him after he made it apparent he wasn’t interested, but it was as if by me looking at him he would be infected by some horrible disease.

I went up to the 4th floor after it became clear nothing was happening on 3 and it was equally depressing. They were cleaning one room and the other one was closed. Only the dark room at the very end was open. People were sleeping and two guys were having sex with another one standing over them. I didn’t even attempt to get close since the message I was getting was that they were not interested.

Eventually I did find some guys to play with in the rain shower room (I don’t know the official name), but finally, I’d had enough. No one was really doing anything, just a lot of walking around.

While there have been a few Japanese who have been interested in me on this trip and my last, I realized most of the fun I had been having at the sauna was with foreigners. So it seems that the more foreigners there are, the more of a chance I have of having fun. So Friday afternoon and the weekend seem to be the best days. Weekday evenings might be better, so maybe one of these days I’ll wander over there after five to see how that compares. Overall, it wasn’t a total waste, but I really didn’t like being reminded of how it felt to be a gai-jin in ni-chome in the 90s. While Japanese women were practically throwing their panties at me, gay Japanese men for the most part didn’t want to have anything to do with me. And it seems that not much has changed.

[a-447]

島国根性 (shimaguni konjou) is an expression you will often hear when Japanese talk about their attitude to the outside world.

It translates as 'Island country mentality' and refers to the insularity and closed-mindedness which results from living on islands which have no borders with other countries. This leads to a feeling of exclusivity and a reluctance to accept others who are not part of this exclusive group.

It perfectly explains their attitude to foreigners.

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, a-447 said:

It perfectly explains their attitude to foreigners.

So it is up to foreigners to adapt as much as possible to the Japanese way of doing things. Plenty of foreigners do but some tend to think the Japanese way of doing things should be adapted to more western ways. I have always found that taking things as they come is the best way. Sometimes you will never attract that great looking hunk you are chasing. At others, a little gentle persistence and he is in your arms. I think as @joizy noted in a different Japanese post, often you get a shy Japanese guy into bed. he can quickly become more of a tiger!

In all my years visiting and living in Japan, I went to all three 24 Kaikans many times, but never in the afternoons except at a week-end. Too many Japanese have to study or work on week-day afternoons. Only at the original 24 in Akasaka would there sometimes be quite a few much older Japanese in week-day afternoons but they just did not interest me.

[a-447]

Joizy, why don't you try your luck at the gay cinema in Ueno?

I've had some great times there.

[joizy]

8 hours ago, a-447 said:

島国根性 (shimaguni konjou) is an expression you will often hear when Japanese talk about their attitude to the outside world.

It translates as 'Island country mentality' and refers to the insularity and closed-mindedness which results from living on islands which have no borders with other countries. This leads to a feeling of exclusivity and a reluctance to accept others who are not part of this exclusive group.

It perfectly explains their attitude to foreigners.

When I lived here in the 90s, I taught English at an American university and we would give a program-wide writing test, which we all scored. So many times, students would start off by saying, “Japan is an island nation surrounded by water” which we thought was hysterical, but in retrospect, I think it shows how much they are aware of what you are talking about (I’ve never heard that expression before). And it’s totally understandable. 

I can accept that people don’t find me physically attractive now at 65 or as a hot 30-something, but what bothers me is the way they will almost aggressively reject you, like the guy turning around and sitting with his back to me in the bath. I was on a lounge chair, a very safe distance from him, but he wanted to make it very clear that there was no way he was going to do anything with me. I know it’s my issue more than anything, but I’ve never faced that kind of rejection anywhere else. Only in Japan.

Still, and I will keep saying this in defense of Japan, there are many good things about this country. I’ve just learned that if I want to have fun at 24 Kaikan, I need to go there when there are more foreigners. And one good thing about the tourism boom here, is that there are more foreigners than when I lived here before.

[joizy]

6 hours ago, a-447 said:

Joizy, why don't you try your luck at the gay cinema in Ueno?

I've had some great times there.

I’m not really a fan of that cinema, though it has been over 30 years since I’ve been there. I’m within walking distance of Shinjuku (staying near Okubo station), so ni-chome is easy for me to get to. My research suggests that the best times for me are Friday and Saturday afternoons. One of these days, I’ll check it out on a weekday later in the evening to see if there are more foreigners after five.

[joizy]

6 hours ago, PeterRS said:

So it is up to foreigners to adapt as much as possible to the Japanese way of doing things. Plenty of foreigners do but some tend to think the Japanese way of doing things should be adapted to more western ways. I have always found that taking things as they come is the best way. Sometimes you will never attract that great looking hunk you are chasing. At others, a little gentle persistence and he is in your arms. I think as @joizy noted in a different Japanese post, often you get a shy Japanese guy into bed. he can quickly become more of a tiger!

In all my years visiting and living in Japan, I went to all three 24 Kaikans many times, but never in the afternoons except at a week-end. Too many Japanese have to study or work on week-day afternoons. Only at the original 24 in Akasaka would there sometimes be quite a few much older Japanese in week-day afternoons but they just did not interest me.

I don’t know that I ever noted that a shy Japanese can become a “tiger” in bed. That has not been my experience. What I have experienced is them becoming a corpse. Not sure if you have had that experience with them. They just lie there motionless. I’ve never really minded it until I was paying someone to be a top and he instead turned into a corpse.

When I lived here before, I tried as hard as I could to things the Japanese way. On my return 20 years after I left, as a tourist and not a resident, it hit me - no matter what I do, I will never be Japanese. There are Koreans who have been living here for generations who will never be Japanese. It’s just not possible. I don’t think it’s about what we do or don’t do. It’s about how we look. They see a foreigner and some of them immediately put up a wall, for whatever reason. That’s fine. It’s their prerogative. The point of my post was really that for me, I have better luck at the sauna when there are more foreigners. 

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, joizy said:

I don’t know that I ever noted that a shy Japanese can become a “tiger” in bed. That has not been my experience. What I have experienced is them becoming a corpse. Not sure if you have had that experience with them. They just lie there motionless. I’ve never really minded it until I was paying someone to be a top and he instead turned into a corpse.

Sorry if I misquoted you. I should also have been more accurate. I was not referring to MBs. I always found they delivered exactly what they promised. Japanese whom I met at parties, for example, and who had missed their last trains home could seem shy with a foreigner, but get them into bed and they completely changed. I found it great. Never ended up with a corpse and I'm sorry you did.

[joizy]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

Sorry if I misquoted you. I should also have been more accurate. I was not referring to MBs. I always found they delivered exactly what they promised. Japanese whom I met at parties, for example, and who had missed their last trains home could seem shy with a foreigner, but get them into bed and they completely changed. I found it great. Never ended up with a corpse and I'm sorry you did.

I’ve never really found Japanese guys to be that passionate. But I remember a Taiwanese guy I met here who was definitely a tiger. I told him I wanted to go to Taiwan after that!