TDS or Trump derangement syndrome updates

[stevenkesslar]

28 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

And it should be clear that the typical Trump voter accepts being lied to and betrayed by him...... 

So I guess we aint in the same "glory hole" on this point hon ?   😏

I think we are talking about two different types of voters.  As you say, you are talking about Trump voters.  And within that, I would distinguish between people who voted for Trump, and people who identify as MAGA (about 3 in 4 Republicans or so).

You are absolutely right that there are Trump voters who simply obey.  @lookin has made a bunch of really thoughtful posts for years about authoritarian followers, citing various sources.  So that is a good concept for the kinds of voters who you are talking about.

They are loyal and true and obedient and cruel.  Just like our good loyal MAGA pup.  Don't forget to give him a treat.  He'll be extra cruel just to spite you, Sis.

Of course, they don't think they are cruel.  They think they are loyal and true and obedient and good.  That was my point about citing these Republicans leaders in Valadao's district.  Of course they are not going to make people sick or hungry!  Of course Donald Trump would never do that!

Riddle me this, Batman.  I have a Trump voting relative who is literally on the board of a food bank.  He is a very smart and compassionate guy, who is very proud of what the food bank he serves on does.  Best guess is that food banks would literally have to double their output to make up for the SNAP cuts.  Which is basically impossible.  So what is the point?  Do good by serving on a food bank board, and then support someone who wipes out all the good you did, and makes hunger a lot worse?

Now, what would happen if Donald Trump personally decided our good and loyal and true pup had to be turned into Trump Steaks to feed hungry Trump voters when Trump takes their Medicaid and food away?  Would the loyal pup suddenly be less obedient?  That's a tough one.  You'll have to ask the dumb dog yourself.  If you can get him to stop barking.

I'm talking about different voters.  We know that Trump lost in 2020 and won in 2024.  We know Valadao lost in 2018 and won in 2020.  We know there are swing voters.  I think it is clear that Trump won a lot of votes in 2024, especially among people who are working class or young or poor, because they were pissed about inflation or rent or gas prices or whatever.  Trump promised not to fuck with them, or their Medicaid.  He promised to lower their prices.  Tillis was right.  They are being betrayed. 

My point is they are not stupid.  The polls say they have already figured it out. 2 in 3 voters don't like this bill.   Independents abhor it.  When they find out more about the cruel details in the bill, I think they may be even more pissed.  But Trump voters, of course, love it.  Especially ones who say they are MAGA.  Aka The Cult.

You're talking about the cultists or authoritarian followers.   I totally agree with you.  I am talking about swing voters or independents.  

[Suckrates]

30 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

I think we are talking about two different types of voters.  As you say, you are talking about Trump voters.  And within that, I would distinguish between people who voted for Trump, and people who identify as MAGA (about 3 in 4 Republicans or so).

You are absolutely right that there are Trump voters who simply obey.  @lookin has made a bunch of really thoughtful posts for years about authoritarian followers, citing various sources.  So that is a good concept for the kinds of voters who you are talking about.

I'm talking about different voters.  We know that Trump lost in 2020 and won in 2024.  We know Valadao lost in 2018 and won in 2020.  We know there are swing voters.  I think it is clear that Trump won a lot of votes in 2024, especially among people who are working class or young or poor, because they were pissed about inflation or rent or gas prices or whatever.  Trump promised not to fuck with them, or their Medicaid.  He promised to lower their prices.  Tillis was right.  They are being betrayed. 

My point is they are not stupid.  The polls say they have already figured it out. 2 in 3 voters don't like this bill.   Independents abhor it.  When they find out more about the cruel details in the bill, I think they may be even more pissed.  But Trump voters, of course, love it.  Especially ones who say they are MAGA.  Aka The Cult.

You're talking about the cultists or authoritarian followers.   I totally agree with you.  I am talking about swing voters or independents.  

I am now gonna be a real CUNT here.....   Your points well taken, but if swings and indys ARE NOT STUPID they would NOT have voted for Trump over Harris....  They has already experienced years of Trump,  knew who and what he was.....A LIAR and con man, and a man who tried to overthrow a free and fair election TO STAY IN POWER.  they knew the agenda he was pursuing.....  they knew everything they needed to know NOT TO VOTE for him again.....     so what do they do ?    THEY VOTE FOR HIM...   That act shows me they are no different or better than the CULT !    Excuses ARE just excuses, and there were no excuses to be made to vote for Trump in 2024 after a basically failed Presidency in 2016......  

So dear,  for me,  we are still NOT in the same "glory hole"......      Your well taken points are in the camp of "well it only makes sense that they would not......."      but we have already seen that "they would" and DID in 2024.    Unless their own lives change significantly, you can bet they would vote for him AGAIM if given the chance..... But lets hope they WONT get the chance !     CAPISCE ?????

[Stable Genius]

[stevenkesslar]

4 hours ago, Suckrates said:

 CAPISCE ?????

Of course, Sis.

You're so sexy when you get passionate.  It is one of the endless things I love about you.

[Suckrates]

1 hour ago, stevenkesslar said:

Of course, Sis.

You're so sexy when you get passionate.  It is one of the endless things I love about you.

[Pete1111]

17 hours ago, Stable Genius said:

Not to mention how Republican state legislatures have been emptying Treasury reserves across the Country.

The dumb voters may never understand what hit them.  Will they ever take ownership and stop blaming the Dems?

Voters love their Republicans like Russians love their Putin.

 

 

[stevenkesslar]

1 hour ago, Pete1111 said:

The dumb voters may never understand what hit them.

I think the essential problem is that us dumb voters like getting money.   What's that about, anyway?

Dick Cheney said back in the last century that Reagan proved deficits don't matter - politically.  He ran them up and he won in a landslide and got his heir Bush 41 elected.  His heir said "no new taxes" and lost.  Because he raised taxes and it pissed people off.

Clinton proved that in a way, too.  He created a surplus and his heir apparent, Gore, lost.  W. then proceeded to run up annual deficits again.  Trump seems to be against most of what W. did, I guess.   Like starting wars with four letter countries that start with IRA... 🤔  Or running up deficits.   Trump would never do that, of course.

Final example:  Labor won in the UK in a landslide.  Then they did what they must have thought was fiscally responsible, and cut people's benefits.  Then they got crushed in the recent elections.  And everyone said it was about the benefits, stupid.

Stanley Druckenmiller identifies as a super rich guy, and an old school low tax low government Republican.  He said something a few years back that I think was prescient.  He said maybe Republicans can hold off taxing the rich, like him, more for a few more election cycles.  So far, he nailed it.  But eventually when it comes down to cutting Medicare or Social Security or something like that, Druckenmiller knows the pitchforks are aimed right at his pocketbook.  

In that sense, however it goes, Mamdani may be the handwriting on the wall.  People don't want their Medicaid cut or their food taken away to help the noble rich.  Either that, or Musk trains Grok to have us all believing that Hitler was good, and guys like Musk and Trump will do what's best for us.    If you dissent, you are deported.  That's the challenge us dumb voters face.

 

[Stable Genius]

[lookin]

On 7/11/2025 at 1:21 PM, stevenkesslar said:

You are absolutely right that there are Trump voters who simply obey.  @lookin has made a bunch of really thoughtful posts for years about authoritarian followers, citing various sources.  So that is a good concept for the kinds of voters who you are talking about.

Thanks for remembering that, @stevenkesslar.  I find in my off-board life, as well as this on-board life, that it's really difficult for most of my friends to understand what makes the authoritarian follower tick.  If you're not one of them, it's tempting to get mad at them, call them stupid and ascribe a host of negative qualities to them.  This contributor to Psychology Today made a list of thirty qualities guaranteed to make non-authoritarian-followers give them a wide berth.  I also get the willies when I'm around an authoritarian follower.

But I'm also aware that I'm not going to change them.  I have a friend who goes on endlessly about his family members who were Bolsonaro supporters and are now Trump fans, and he spends hours trying to convince them how wrong they are.  I got hoarse telling him he's wasting his time and I've now concluded that I'm wasting my time telling him he's wasting his time.

For me the goal is not to rail against authoritarian followers, as tempting as that is, but to figure out how to reduce their negative political impact.  If I believe, which I do, that their identity revolves around following a leader, then one solution would be to find them a better leader than Donald Trump.  Some religions have been successful in attracting authoritarian followers, sometimes promoting their fear of the other and dislike of ambiguity.  And, of course, the military is a natural fit for authoritarian followers.  The Republican party under Donald Trump has made a specialty of bringing them into the tent, but the Democratic party has not.  And the Democrats have lost elections as a result.

And that's where I get stuck.  I don't want to belong to a political party that's based on a fear of the 'other', that doesn't tolerate opposing thoughts, and that follows a leader rather than a set of values.  Personally, I'm a big fan of Bernie Sanders but he's not a Democrat, he doesn't promote fear of the other, he allows for different points of view and - unfortunately - he's unelectable.  Or so they say.

So here are some questions I'm asking these days.  Is it possible to win a national election without appealing to authoritarian followers?  Can a contemporary political party succeed without an authoritarian leader?  Is there a stronger rallying point than fear of the other?  Can differences of opinion become a strength rather than a weakness?

Based on what I see in many other countries today, and what I've seen in this country in the past, the answers are clearly "yes".  But, after I'm all done defining the problem, how do I go about solving it?  What do others think?  Can the Democratic party peel away some authoritarian follower voters while staying true to its values?