
PeterRS
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Booking.com's Illegal Activities Facing More Class Action Suits
PeterRS replied to PeterRS's topic in The Beer Bar
I am like you. I post regularly and I always try to give an accurate account of my stay. I read a lot of reviews but increasingly find many of them all but useless. My rule of thumb always used to be jettison the best 33% and the worst 33% and just stick with those in the middle. Even now I find that is much less useful. My only reason for staying with Tripadvsor is they provide you with a map of the world and cities and places where you have stayed. I am sometime staggered that, largely thanks to business, I have stayed in so many countries, towns and cities around the world. Now I am much more likely to make my own decisions rather than depending on the comments of others. -
Certainly no one just making occasional if frequent visits should ever consider buying - unless they have an endless supply of cash. Equally, no one without having spent considerable time in Thailand should consider buying over renting in the first year ir two. One point made in the video is the problem that anyone who buys can face: selling! Sometimes it's easy; sometimes fiendishly difficult. Two extremes from one flat in my own condo. For a dozen years living next to me were two retired English guys. For whatever reason they had purchased a large 205 sq. m flat with three bedrooms and bathrooms. To purchase a flat that large (my own is just under 80 sq. m) was in my view idiotic, but I just assumed they could afford it. Living on meagre state pensions, they depended on a large pot of cash. With the 2008 worldwide recession and interest rates collapsing for more than a decade, they should have seen the writing on the wall. They didn't. When they finally realised they'd have to sell the flat around 2012 to raise some cash, selling took them 3 years. It was way too big for most Thais and expats generally look for much smaller accommodation. Even when they did sell, they had to drop their asking price by 28%. That meant over around 12 years they had realised a gain of only around 33%. The next owner was English with a Thai girlfriend and son. After a year they found a another apartment nearby and also decided to sell. Within weeks they had sold it for a price that was 72% greater than their purchase price. That must have made the two guys who had earlier sold livid! The reason, though, was partly quite simple. The two English guys had gone to one western estate agent. The next owner's girlfriend had registered with three Thai agencies. The couple who bought it have since only rented it out!
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Respectfully I disagree. I have on I think three occasions ended up with twin beds when I have ordered and been promised one large bed. Pushing them together looks as though they make a better larger bed, but you always end up with the gap in the middle, no matter how small. As soon as you cuddle up to someone you hit that gap. If the beds are on some form a castor, you can quite easily fall down between the two. Even if you remain on the bed, I find the dip between the two more than annoying! Trying to share just one twin bed in the tiny room of a Japanese business hotel - good luck!
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Not at all! In Japan I have several times been in a room where if I stretched out my arms I could touch the side walls. Much more important to me is that the room is really quiet.
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"A literary psychological thriller set in Melbourne’s queer scene with the suspense of The Talented Mr Ripley and the gritty emotional landscape of Christos Tsiolkas and Bryan Washington." So goes the PR blurb for Thomas Vowles novel Our New Gods. The basis of the story line? “Ash has recently arrived in Melbourne and fallen in love with his charismatic new friend, James. After witnessing a disturbing altercation at a party, Ash suspects that James’s mysterious boyfriend is hiding a sinister side. Is he dangerous? Or is Ash’s jealousy fuelling paranoid delusions? “A compulsive novel that offers no easy answers, Our New Gods has an assuredness that reflects Thomas Vowles’s success as a screenwriter: the atmosphere is taut, the plot twists are dizzying, and the story will haunt readers long after the final page." A pre-reviewer on amazon writes, “Enthralling, dark, elegant, sexy, electrifying” Looking at various websites, it is clear that this book takes the reader into many gay haunts including the world of gay apps and saunas. It is both gritty and explosive. As stated in the site appended below, it “wades into the muck of modern desire.” Most of the above is the basis of a preview that appeared in The Guardian on June 27. The novel will be published on September 3 and available from amazon. http://www.ourdailyread.com/2025/06/our-new-gods-by-thomas-vowles-review-debut-queer-thriller-dares-to-wade-into-the-muck-of-modern-desire/ https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jun/27/our-new-gods-by-thomas-vowles-review-debut-queer-thriller-dares-to-wade-into-the-muck-of-modern-desire
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Totally agree with @Travelingguy's point. On the other hand, I chose Bangkok after visiting regularly (sometimes monthly) over two decades. It was a lot cheaper when I purchased my condo but I have an asset which has increased in value by around 200% and not thrown away 24 years in rent. Yes, I know that some will say by tying a wad of cash up in a condo purchase I missed other investment opportunities. Reasonable argument, I suppose, but I am no Warren Buffet and my investment decisions (sometimes made by so-called professional advisers!) have often lost money!! I think I wrote before that I did miss the boat on one investment I had considered. When I learned that Warren Buffet had taken a 10% stake and a seat on the Board in the Chinese battery and car maker BYD, I thought about buying $1,000 in shares. I didn't! Buffet paid US$230 million for his stake less than 20 years ago. By 2022 it was worth more than $8 billion!
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Very useful advice. I quite often find that if I want, say, a large bed, the cheaper offer on another site will only be for a twin bed room. Not I think, what most posters here will be looking for!
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Booking.com's Illegal Activities Facing More Class Action Suits
PeterRS replied to PeterRS's topic in The Beer Bar
I have usually done the same, athough I am wary about quite a number of guest reviews if only because we all have some differing views on our hotel requirements and experiences. Also, as one who has travelled frequently to many countries in my career, my requirements are no doubt different to someone just staying in a hotel for, say, the second or even tenth time. That's not to say my requirements are always the same. I am almost always as happy in a near tiny Japanese business hotel as in a large chain hotel accommodated by a client. Another concern about guest reviews is there is now much more pressure put on guests to complete review questionnaires than there was even ten years ago. Then I found that on checking out a small number of hotels would request I write a Tripadvisor review of my stay. Now I reckon I am asked to review stays - either by the hotel staff themselves (sometimes even going to the length of giving me a little printed request slip) or by most of the booking sites. In general, I find many of these reviews now are dependent not on a guest's total experience but on one or two things that they either liked or disliked. So someone will give a perfectly good hotel just a 2-star (out of five) rating because there was no toothbrush in the bathroom! (Yes, I have actually seen that!) Or you get rave one-line 5-star reviews which have obviously been placed by someone or business associated with the hotel. I even wrote about this to Triadvisor's head office after a dreadfully poor overall stay at Singapore's Marina Bay Sands Hotel. Within a month, most of the reviews I had queried suddenly disappeared! Business travel magazines have long touted the fake reviews often found on Tripadvisor. Booking site reviews are usually limited to this who have actually used the site to make the booking. But I do now take all of these with a very large pinch of salt. Last point about @vinapu's comment re pricing. I do tend to book quite far in advance. The concern then is that prices for the period for my stay might come down beforehand. Then I negotiate a reduction directly with the hotel. Usually it works, although now with booking sites more commonly offering cancellation up to 2 or 3 days beforehand, this is less of an issue. -
Thanks, but I don't have a VPN. In any case I have used agoda at least 200 times to know how to find the full price.
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Booking.com's Illegal Activities Facing More Class Action Suits
PeterRS replied to PeterRS's topic in The Beer Bar
I think the real question posed above is not how pleased you are with the site but how much you might have been overcharged for all your bookings. Hotels are equally angry and booking.com's practices. As I stated some hotel associations are taking out their own class actions particularly re the site's contract conditions which they believe actually increase prices overall. -
I'm listening - and hear nothing!
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If there is one thing on my bucket llst that will never happen it is seeing the earth from space. Jim Lovell, one of the second group of NASA astronauts, did that four times, most notably in 1970 when, as commander of Apollo 13, he not only almost died in a weightless grave, he, his two colleagues and a ground team working feverishly on near impossibilities, managed to bring his crippled spacecraft back to earth safely. It was a time when the world quite literally watched in wonder. Jim Lovell died two days ago aged 97. Although I was one of those who did follow almost every moment of Apollo 13, I was more in awe of his first Apollo flight, Apollo 8, the first manned flight to reach the moon and then fly around it at Christmas 1968. This was when one of his colleagues pointed his camera at the earth and took what has become an iconic photo. Science & Society Picture Library / Getty Images Many were against that flight, fearful of what might happen on the moon's dark side when there could be no communication with the earth. I recall that one was Sir Bernard Lovell, the British Astronomer Royal. I cannot now recall what doubts he then expressed about that mission, but others were very concerned about engine reliability. If it failed and the spacecraft could not get out of lunar orbit, Lovell's's heroics on Apollo 13 would never have happened. Presumably his body would still be circling the moon and we would have mourned his passing 55 years ago. These astronauts were true adventurers. I salute them all
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I became increasingly depressed as I watched that vdo. As the OP states, there is little there that has not been included in other similar videos. At one point I wondered if everyone he spoke to in the expat community is as downbeat on Thailand as his monotone delivery! He certainly makes useful points, but in my view spends 35 minutes saying what could have been condensed into 6 or 7. His main point about knowing what you might be getting yourself into before commiting to retirement in Thailand is one that everyone must take to heart and mind. It has been stressed time and again on this Board. Thailand is not a retirement paradise unless you know quite a bit about the country and the part you wish to retire to. An understanding of how things can quickly change here is also important. The importance of an existing medical insurance policy prior to coming to Thailand and of not burning bridges and cutting oneself off from friends and family at home are other important points. And of course having enough cash to cope with emergencies which almost certainly will arise for some. On the other hand, there are many expats who have come to Thailand and remain here, most being more than reasonably happy with their choice.
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The parent company of booking.com is Booking Holdings based in Delaware in the USA and listed on the NASDAQ-100 index. It is a huge travel company controlling booking.com, agoda, priceline, expedia, kayak, cheapflights and others. Its booking.com site is based in The Netherlands. A 2023 study by Hotrec and the University of Applied Sciences Western Switzerland Valais revealed that Booking Holdings held a 71% share of the European online hotel market. For years there have been complaints on travel sites and to newspapers about problems with this site - mostly pre-payments which are then cancelled using the "free concellation" clause - but refunds are either heavily delayed (for more than a year in several cases) or not provided (see the complaint site below). In 2016 alone there were 12,000 complaints against the site in the UK. Now, this massive company is again in the news for dubious practices which have resulted in a new class action lawsuit against the company for allegedly overcharging customers through fake discounts and artificial scarcity of rooms. According to the Consumentenbond (the Dutch Consumer Agency) customers have been overcharged for years through misleading practices. If you booked through booking.com since 2013, you might be due a refund (assuming you still have receipts or other proof). Worse, it made illegal agreements with hotels preventing them from offering cheaper prices or better conditions on their own hotels and other booking websites. Last year the European Court ruled that booking.com broke the rules. Spain then hit the company with a hefty €413 million fine. Even those who used agoda and expedia may be able to join the class action for it argues that booking.com's market dominance artificially inflated prices across the entire sector. Part of the aim of the lawsuit is to get rid of misleading practices on booking search engines. Anyone can join the the Consumentenbond class action - see link below. Within a week of announcing the class action, over 180,000 individuals joined up. There is no cost and should the claimants win, 75% of the judgement will be divided amongst them. In April this year a second class action against booking.com was commenced by more than 10,000 leading hotels in Europe. Again this claims for losses as a result of the booking.com "best price" condition making it impossible for hotels to reduce their prices below that rate. Hotels have until August 29 to join the action. Additional lawsuits are being considered by several American Law firms. Details of one and an application to join are also in another link below. Allegedly the site used fake discounts, incomplete prices and fabricated scarcity to influence consumer decisions. There are cases where bookings have been made and paid for, reminders sent by the company, arrival at the overseas hotel only to receive emails saying the booking has been cancelled. In one such case highlighted in a British TV programme in 2021, two young ladies had to pay a total over £875 on a short vacation from the UK to Portugal. When calling to complain to booking.com that there was no booking, they were connected to an operator in Japan and the call was cut off. With no funds for other hotels, they had no choice but to return home. The following month booking.com offered £187 in compensation. The girls followed this up with series of no less than nine emails threatening legal action. During this process, the girls were pushed around various departments and had twice to submit receipts. Booking.com finally came up with another £500. I understand that last year following the European Court ruling, booking.com changed it "best price" practice in contracts with hotels. Just last month, a booking.com spokesperson stated, "It is absolutely nonsense to say we artificially inflated hotel prices." Well, faced with a barrage of legal issues, they'd have to say that, wouldn't they! https://www.complaintsboard.com/bookingcom-b110669 https://www.dw.com/en/over-10000-hotels-join-complaint-against-bookingcom/a-73526132 https://www.agrusslawfirm.com/companies-with-arbitration-clauses/booking-com/ https://dutchreview.com/news/booking-com-class-action-lawsuit-claim-compensation/ Lastly, I have started using smaller search engines. I find Hong Kong's Klook site has better prices in Taipei than agoda and the same with Japanican in Tokyo. I am going to change my November Taipei booking from agoda to Klook (which I have used once before).
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Agreed. And also to read the small print. I have always found agoda adds service charges and taxes after you have decided on a room. In the two cases listed by @Moses above, the prices on the two sites are identical. Please see my new post on Booking.com's illegal activities in the Beer Bar forum.
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Stupid people remain stupid - that's their problem.
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I have been taking and editing photos for as long as I can remember. Sometimes photos are best left at some angle.
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Don't you realise we are getting a life????
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Why would anyone bother? Fact of your life obviously.
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Not at all. I was referring to you as you are the one who raised that stupidity about "getting a life" in yout post about my post. Clearly you have difficulty reading.
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If that is indeed the price, surely it must mean tearing town and erecting one or more high-rise buildings. But the soi is too narrow for any single building over 8 stories. I suspect it has to be for the entire soi and the house at the end so that the soi can be eliminated with just one really big high-rise.
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Perhaps you might learn to read.
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As clearly does @Riobard 🤣 🤣
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Being grounded for any length of time is not welcomed by anyone involved with an airline. But I think a touch more realism is worth considering. Not mentioned in the above post by @daydreamer are the comments later in the article about some problems having arisen partly as a result of the aircraft being grounded by most airlines for some years during covid and the belief by most at that time that they would not reenter service. It is largely thanks to the inefficiency and many other problem issues at Boeing - in particular with the massively long 7-year delay in getting the 777X ready for delivery - that the A380s were brought back into service in the first place. Some of the problems that have arisen are unquestionably the result of airlines bringing them back without doing at least a small number of regular checks which naturally is unforgivable. Worrying though that can be, I personally have no issue whatever flying the A380 on a scheduled airline as it is an aircraft I love flying in, whereas nothing will persuade me to ever get on a 737 Max. Being such a large aircraft, the time for regular maintenance was always going to take considerably longer than smaller aircraft. For Blomberg to suggest this is a problem is stupid in my view! What is the comparison in terms of time, I wonder, compared to maintenance schedules for, let's suggest, two older A330s or two of the original 777s, both aircraft types having been in the air for 30 years? Interesting that the Bangkok Post - never the most accurate reporter on quite a number of issues, although being fair in this case it is merely quoting from a Bloomberg article - should accompany the article with a photo of a THAI A380. As we all know, for years THAI left its A380 fleet out in the open air in the heat and very high humidity at BKK without any maintenance whatever. Most airlines parked their unused A380s in very dry desert conditions in the USA or Australia. As a result THAI's A380s cannot fly and will need something like US$30 million each in maintenance we have been told before they can even get off the ground. THAI has them up for sale in an "as is where is" condition! Another gross waste of masses of cash by TG who have always ended up with too many different types of aircraft, some of which it cannot sell - e.g. the A380s and its fleet of A340s. Buying the A380 was purely a vanity exercise and a total waste as it was not a good fit for either its route structure or its existing fleet.
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I have always believed that by far the weakest (and, frankly, the most idiotic) of any 'put down' of another's contribution is the phrase "get a life". It is so monstrously stupid. As though the contributor does not already have a life and one that, in most cases I presume, he actually enjoys in his own way. That people have different views is part of all our lives. Thankfully we are all different and "get a life" means precisely nothing other than to illustrate the bankruptcy of the writer's ideas on what life actually means.