Gaybutton

I disagree. It's all right there in the board rules. There's not much point in having board rules if the troll brigade is going to flagrantly violate them with impunity. It's easy to minimize it by saying "teacher having to step in to defend us." That's not what it is. It's "board owner stepping in before the entire nature of what the board is supposed to be about is ruined along with board owner enforcing the rules." The boards are here to provide information and discussion about Thailand. They're not here to host trolls. Scooby does not need to justify taking action against rule violators. He would need to justify it if he didn't take action against rule violators. The trolls that were suspended were lucky. I would have banned them entirely.

You might also try Sansuk Sauna.

Don't feel bad or embarrassed. You are by far, very far, not the only one who fell into that typical trap. It also took a lot of courage on your part to post and let it be known it was you. I admire that. We all were new here once and I'll bet most of us had our own share of learning-the-hard-way experiences - me included. Those kinds of experiences might make an interesting new topic - if people will admit to them. I'm going to start that topic on my own board. I guess I'm wrong about how many years ago it was. How many was it? What you went through reminds me of one of my favorite quotes - one I've posted many times over the years. Richard Burk, former owner of the Amor restaurant, is the one who said it when I was a newbie in Thailand. I didn't understand then why he said it, but I for sure understand it now, and I have a feeling so do you and probably many more than just us. Here is the quote: "If you want love in Thailand, rent it."

Exactly. I can only tell what I've seen for myself all too often. The well meaning farang comes to Thailand, meets a boy, wants to establish a meaningful relationship, and wants to try to help the boy by sending him for English language lessons. Look what usually ends up happening. For whatever reason the boy never finishes the lessons, the money is gone, and it brings a bitter end to the relationship - if the relationship wasn't, in reality, one-sided to begin with. You know the old saying - the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. The only way I would ever even consider having the boy take English lessons would be to casually mention if some time he wants to take lessons, let me know. If he does let me know, has also shown a genuine interest, and he has asked to take lessons, it might be worth a try. But if the boy is pushed or pressured into it, the chances of success, again based on what I have seen for myself, are somewhere between zero and none.

Maybe, but since I also learned my Thai in Pattaya, it's only rare that I'm not understood anywhere I am in Thailand. I have a feeling it's more likely you're getting the words or the tones wrong. Many farang who think they can speak Thai fairly well simply ignore the tones when they speak. Wrong! Even with some of the simplest words, if you get the tones wrong, they have no idea what you're trying to say.

I would agree if is a true business decision and it's the boy, not the farang, who made the decision. For some strange reason, I would expect the average Thai boy to ask for a smartphone or a motorbike - or both - long before he would ask to learn to speak English. When it comes to a farang who meets a boy while on a holiday here and wants to start up some sort of relationship with him, unless the boy makes it clear he's the one who truly wants to learn to speak English, then my view is if it's the farang who wants the boy to learn to speak English - to make life easier for himself, that's my idea of selfish. Let the farang be the one to start learning his language instead of the other way around. I'm sorry, but saying you're too dumb to learn to speak Thai, at least to the point at which you can hold a conversation and make yourself understood, is my idea of a pretty lame excuse for trying to make the boy learn to speak English instead. What good is it going to do the boy to be able to hold his own with English back on the rice farm? As I said, if there is a genuine business reason to learn English, that's one thing. But trying to get a boy to learn to speak English, if the boy really doesn't want to, simply for the convenience of the farang, is not going to work and is also unfair. If nothing else, while the boy is learning to speak English, at the same time the farang ought to be learning to speak Thai. That would be fair, especially if the primary motivation is for better communication between the two. I agree with every word anddy wrote. I found it very easy to pick up Thai, even the tones. Though I've lived in Thailand many years now, I learned most of it within the first couple years, and learned it simply by listening and trying. Nothing particularly difficult about it at all. Two very simple basic starting points: In Thai the noun almost always comes before the adjective and in Thai the emphasis is almost always on the last syllable. Bottom line, in my opinion - If you're going to send a boy to learn to speak English, then at the same time while he's learning, you start learning to speak Thai. It's a two-way street. You can even help each other.

I doubt it. Many farang will read this sort of advice, but most of the time they won't listen - especially if anyone comes up with a post saying he succeeded. That's all it takes. People hear what they want to hear. The fact is most of the time sending a boy for English lessons is not going to work. At best, it won't produce the desired results. But I have a feeling you know as well as I do - your friend has already convinced himself that he has a "Not this boy. He's different." If there is an imperative business reason or a boy is going to be staying in an English speaking country on a long term basis, then getting English lessons for him is the right thing to do. But if we're talking about a farang coming to Thailand every once in a while to spend a few weeks with his boy special, then why should the boy have to be burdened with learning to speak English? I think the thing to do is for the farang to make the effort to learn to speak Thai. And if someone is going to be spending significant amounts of time in Thailand, the ability to speak and understand Thai, at least in part, is going to be far more useful to him in the first place than the boy being able to speak a version of pidgin English that we often refer to as "Thainglish." My opinion - if someone is going to be spending a lot of time in a foreign country, then don't expect the natives to learn to speak your language. You're in their country. You learn to speak theirs.

Probably not. I'm a cigarette smoker. I'll be lucky to make it to next Thursday.

Up2U has it right. There is a much better chance of success if the boy really wants to learn to speak English rather than being pushed into it. Even then, unless the boy already has a good educational background - and a bar boy from the rice farm won't - there still isn't much chance of success. If it were me, I wouldn't send him to a school in the first place. I would hire a competent tutor for the boy and let him learn at his own pace.

Yes, but you're here in Thailand living with them, aren't you? That's vastly different from farang who are in Thailand for a two or three week holiday, but then return to their home countries where they are not in a position to oversee what the boys are doing - or not doing. To me, if the reason why some farang want to send the boys to learn to speak English is to be able to better communicate with them, then those same farang would do well to start learning to speak Thai. An English language school that focuses on written, rather than spoken, English is not going to be all that much help unless the farang and Thai boys plan to communicate by writing letters to each other.

You're not going to like my response. I've had quite a bit of experience over the years with it - none of it good. Many well meaning farang have tried putting these boys through English lessons. In every case it was an utter failure - not because the school isn't any good, but because the boys won't go. In every case I've personally dealt with or simply heard about, the boys might go a few times, but they always get bored with it or find it too difficult and just drop it. I've seen times when the boy goes once or twice and then gets the school to refund the money - to himself. End of lessons and end of money. I remember one time when a hapless farang was in Pattaya for a holiday, made the common mistake of falling in love with a bar boy, convinced himself the boy had fallen in love with him too, and was going to pay for English lessons for him. He at least had sense enough not to give the money for it until the moment he left. He asked me to take the money and pay the school. I usually won't involve myself with other people's money, but this time I did. I was there the night he departed. He gave me the money when the taxi arrived at his hotel, The Ambiance, bid the boy a tearful goodbye, and drove off in the taxi. I am not exaggerating. Before the taxi had even rounded the corner the boy was already trying to get me to give him the money, about 20,000 baht as I recall. No way. The next day I took the boy to the school, paid the school, and left the boy there for his first lesson. He went twice. I later found out he got the school to refund him the unused portion of the fee - nearly all of it, and the boy disappeared, never to be seen in Pattaya again. Once again we ended up with a heartbroken farang with a much lighter wallet. That farang, by the way, is a member of this board. If he's not too embarrassed, maybe he'll corroborate this story. This was around 8 or 9 years ago. He's learned quite a bit since then. My advice to your friend - forget it. Don't do it. Repeat: Don't do it. And if his response is something similar to "Not this boy. He's different." then he's setting himself up for the same heartbreak. It might not even be entirely the boy's fault. If mama finds out that the boy might be able to get his hands on that money, believe me the money will be gone. I hope your friend doesn't have to learn the hard way. Want another story? How about this one. Another farang friend gave a boy a lot of money for English lessons. Another "Not this boy. He's different." He trusted the boy to spend the money for the lessons while he was in the USA. A few months later, when he returned to Thailand, he discovered that not a single baht had been spent for English lessons, but it all had indeed been spent. You know what the boy spent the money on? He became a lady boy and spent the money for breast implants. End of relationship. Oh well, at least he was right about one thing - the boy was different. Every once in a blue moon a boy will really go through the lessons. In all the years I've lived here, I've seen that happen a grand total of once. And the boy's English wasn't all that much better than it was when he started. I've never heard of the program bucknaway is recommending. I'd give that a try before parting with a lot of money. If your friend wants better communication with the boy, instead of paying for English lessons for the boy, he'd be much better off finding a school or hiring a tutor himself and taking Thai lessons.

Not that my age is anyone's business but my own, the answer is not quite yet. However, I'm definitely old enough to qualify for being a dirty old man. And I'm going to be a dirty old man 'till I'm a dead old man.

No. I like to sit on the floor.

Right. Meanwhile, compared to you, I'm anorexic.

"Your powers of observation do you credit, Mr. Bond." Lois Chiles (Dr. Goodhead), 'Moonraker' Obviously I have my reasons why I won't say anything more. Also, I don't give a damn about 'Beachlover.' He was dealt with long ago. It's the current troll.

No

Yes

Are you gents actually swallowing this troll's malarkey about who he is trying to pass himself off as being? Maybe some of you don't remember another troll who went by the screen name "Beachlover." He tried to do the same thing - pass himself off as a young, rich, Asian yuppie who thought he was in a position to criticize everyone else. He was eventually caught out as being nothing but a liar - same as this guy - who was in reality no younger than the rest of us, definitely not even Asian, and no more wealthy than the average farang. It's perfectly obvious to me this guy is nothing but a troll trying to do the same thing - just some nut case who gets his jollies when he succeeds at making others angry and/or manages to get them upset. When he actually has guts enough to personally meet some of you and identify himself - then, and only then, will he at least be credible as the young guy he passes himself off to be. I'm still waiting for him to show up at Elephant Plaza, identify himself, and show us the waiter who was so aggressive with him. You want that public apology from me, Qualityonly? Show up, show us the waiter, and get it.

That's "calling your bluff", genius. I don't know what bluff you think you're calling. You're the one trying to bluff your way through getting caught out. You're the one too much of a coward to go to Elephant Plaza, identify yourself, and show us the waiter that treated you so horribly. But you're excellent at hiding behind internet anonymity. Goooood. Please keep right on in putting your foot in your mouth and demonstrating to everyone who reads this board that you're nothing but a troll. I know it. You know it. Gary knows it. Every waiter now working at Elephant Plaza knows it. And every customer who has ever been to All of Me knows it. Personally, I'm greatly enjoying watching you get more and more flustered and beside yourself with rage. As for responding to your crap anymore, nope. I'm done. Sorry, you're not even good enough at this to suck me in any further.

That just brings tears to my eyes . . .

That's right, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have had to on my board. I would have simply dumped him and his posts the first time the bullshit started. That doesn't mean I won't go after a troll this way on boards that allow it. Molotov: "I have never been spoken to like that in my life." Harry Truman: "If you and Stalin would keep your agreements, you wouldn't get spoken to like that."

That's quite a 'quality' post you've got there, just above, Qualityonly. Partially quoting my post and can't even get that in place correctly. You had to actually click the POST icon to get it there. What's the matter - too flustered to come up with a response because now you realize many are fully aware of the kind of troll you've really turned out to be? Plenty of people at Elephant Plaza right now, as I write this. There's a popular show going on. Why don't you just trot on over, identify yourself, and show everybody the offending waiter you're talking about? Poll the customers and let us know how many were harassed this evening by that same waiter. Now that would make a real show. Go ahead. Humiliate me. Get yourself that public apology.

You're the only person I know of ever to accuse that bar of any wrongdoing whatsoever. None of the waiters have ever been aggressive to any of the regulars and none of us have ever seen any of the waiters being aggressive to anyone else. Only you. Based on knowing the waiters, knowing the bar, knowing the owner, and knowing people who are there virtually every night, I don't believe one word of what you're saying. I don't have any idea what your reasons are behind this, but as far as I'm concerned you're nothing but a troll who has some sort of personal vendetta against the bar and you're not above making up a bunch of bullshit to try to convince people that such an incident actually happened. I know that Gary, the former owner, read your accusation. I also know that you never bothered to say one word to him about what you're trying to convince people that happened. Gary checked with every regular and every waiter. Conclusion? Bullshit. Good riddance to that bar? Good job, Qualityonly. You've managed to get plenty of people who, once you leave Pattaya, will be saying good riddance to you. Next time you're in Sunee Plaza, go to the Elephant Plaza bar. The All of Me waiters are all working there now. The customer regulars will be there and sometimes I'm there too. Identify yourself to us, if you have the guts - which I'm sure you don't - and then show us which waiter you're talking about. If what you said turns out to be true, I'll be the first one to publicly apologize to you, both at the bar and on this board. Why do I have a feeling you showing up to point out the waiter will never happen? That's along with knowing damned well that your accusation never happened either.

That part is obvious. Sorry, but you're not going to suck me into this nonsense. You tried to make it appear that I was contradicting myself. You lost. Instead of trying to continue by nitpicking and asking loaded questions, accept it and move on. You want a last word? Go right ahead. I'm done with this.

You're the one who tried to make my statements appear as contradictions. I'll say again, if I wanted to know why gay Arabs "risk their life in Pattaya," I would ask a gay Arab. If you hang on to anything as if it were Gospel, wouldn't you first have to believe the Gospel is worth hanging onto in the first place?