Londoner

We lost in Thailand yet again....P and his mates are devastated. The rich, the Bangkok elite and the powerful always get their way. We thought that this time, maybe.....

As Vessey says, it is not a question of physique. My friend began his journey as a "funny khatoey", that is participating in Thai-orientated khatoey shows. I saw one in Pattaya; it presented not only the attractive but competitions for the ugly, for the over-thirties, for the overweight- "Ms Jumbo"- and for the comic. He won the "comic" prize. Another strange manifestation of this phenomenon is in the rural area where P lives, where two very young boys- I mean pre-pubescent- are accepted by the community as prototypes for ladyhood. I was astonished also to hear that the school he attended as teenager held a khatoey show. This was thirty plus years ago; I suspect that attitudes may have changed.

The Internationale , sung in Thai.

Two straight men I know- yes, I do mix outside my community- are obsessive about Thai ladyboys....at a distance I must emphasise. I'm no expert but I have watched the two-way transition of P's cousin, whom I first met as a twenty-three year old in 2006. He was a good-looking, rather femme gay guy. Over the next eight years I watched him slowly but inexorably become "a lady". Hair, jewellery, dresses, speech, behaviour... step by step he was transformed. About thirteen years ago he became a mamasan in one of the "men for ladies" clubs in Third Road, even appearing on Thai TV. Then, when he reached forty, he started moving in the opposite direction and now dresses as a man, if a little eccentrically; and the cosmetics and the dresses are gone. P tells me he still uses Khatoey Argot, of which I understand not a word, but this remains the last vestige of his rather odd gender-journey.

One poster commenting on another topic mentioned an unfortunate experience in a straight hotel; this set me wondering whether such behaviour is commonplace in Thailand. I think not; it is true that when I'm with P in a hotel we don't look like a typical bar-boy and his client; he's now forty-three and I'm.... a little older. However, even considering our earliest trips to hotels outside Bangkok and Pattaya we never faced problems even when he was in his youthful-twenties. Planes, airports, restaurants, hotels....nothing. The only time when we have felt uncomfortable - and I stress felt- was when we were on a Phi Phi Island boat trip from Krabi which included a shared lunch for groups of eight or so tourists. Even then, it was hard to put our collective finger on why we both felt that way and both wanted to leave the table. It certainly wasn't the young Chinese (and noisy) girls who constituted the majority of the passengers. The people whom we felt were embarrassed by us were middle-aged, white and English-speaking. Only outside did we discover that we both felt the same way. An elderly Italian guy on the boat later went out of his way to be friendly to us. Perhaps he had noticed a frisson. A question; would a falang visitor in his fifties with a twenty year old Thai girl arouse cold looks or comments? Was it our sexuality or the assumption that our relationship was commercial that aroused the discomfort?

Your wish is my command....I'll be there in a few weeks. With P. And the squirrels.

I note Travellerdave's comments about the gay clientele at Zing. He recommended Agate to us about six years ago and we've been happy there ever since. I'm sure he's right; Agate's guests are more likely to be families than single gay men or couples like us, particularly in High Season. There was a higher proportion of gay customers when we started staying there. However, we're not bothered; we are left alone, indeed, we seldom come into contact with others even at breakfast where we eat earlier than most. We've never had any issues in any of the Thai hotels we've stayed in, from Krabi to Chiang Rai. Speaking of breakfast, Travellerdave is correct; Agate's breakfasts are predominantly Thai-based, which is why P likes them so much. He thinks the quality is high and he has exacting standards. As for me, I never want a cooked breakfast anywhere and so I'm not concerned.....and the coffee is good. We like sitting on our own near the waterfall just outside the restaurant. Our only companions tend to be the squirrels who nest above the waterfall. I wish I were there now!

See above.

I was referring to the Sunee dancers in the Jomtien Complex. I haven't been to the old Sunee Plaza for years!

I note the number of videos of the dancers on YouTube... they seem to be getting some world-wide attention! Good, they deserve it. I often see them arriving at in the afternoon for rehearsals; they work hard.

Recalling Groucho's remarks about clubs, " I wouldn't want to go to any orgy that invited me."

Visitors of my generation may recall that, back in the day, photographs in Boyztown- the soi itself- were forbidden. Ambiance used to have, for many years, a very nice guy as doorman/ security guard. I respected him because he was so kind to the guys I offed, treating them as customers, the same as me. One of his tasks was to stop-or at least discourage- anyone using their cameras to take photographs of the soi. Oh for the blessed days before the advent of mobile phones! I'm only joking about that...I think.

That happened to you too?